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Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread


SilverBones
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I have yet to play with these changes, but with today's announcement that impact's new status effect is being revised, I would like to make a suggestion. It should be pretty obvious that constantly knocking targets down with impact procs is not very good for gameplay, as it makes headshots much more difficult to land. I have seen others suggest that instead of ragdoll/knockdown, repeated impact procs should eventually build up to a full stun/sleep, opening them up to melee finishers. I think this is a good idea. It accomplishes essentially the same thing, without the annoyance of throwing the target around and making them harder to hit. Now I suspect you may be trying to figure out how to differentiate between impact and cold. I think cold should, as it does now, apply an increasingly stronger slowdown, but I think it should eventually buildup to a complete freeze, at which point the target should take increased damage from all sources. Not a whole lot, just like 15 to 20% more. I think that would give people more of a reason to build cold, because as it stands now, simply slowing down enemies a bit is totally pointless when you could just kill them quicker. If the extra damage is deemed to be too powerful of an effect, then I think the cold status should apply in an area, something like a 5 meter radius from the target. That way you could at least slow down a group of clustered enemies because again, simply slowing one enemy down is pointless when they could be dead in 0.2 seconds.

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I have a suggestion for how advanced impact procs should work, if you want them to stun an enemy why not just make the enemy winded? Like they bend over forward a bit clutching their stomach because you knocked all the air out of their lungs, from the front their head hitbox moves onto their chest and done, still stunned, easy animation for enemies to get out of and you can now just aim for center of mass.

Also the Zarr secondary fire needs looking at in reguards to the shotgun status chance update since it's a shotgun and now it has a pitiful status chance.

Edited by Braneman
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Phantasma doesn't proc the right amount of status using the status/pellet calculation:

So, with the change to status for shotguns, ALL of the Phantasma's pellets/beams should have a chance to proc status individually, just like any other shotgun. But currently, that is not the case. 

Right now the damage numbers will Show that the Phantasma is proccing multiple status per shot, but in reality it is only letting 1 of those shown procs Proc on the enemy.

I saw several other people mention this, but it seems like both the Phantasma and the Phage treat their "multishot" as if they are a single beam that can only proc once per damage instance. Instead of multiple beams that each do their own separate damage and status proccing.

Heres a screenshot of it, the Phantasma is getting at least 3 separate procs shown, but the enemy only gets effected by a Single proc out of all of them. (And included a screenshot of how damage numbers look if they don't proc anything, just to show that nothing has been changed with how they appear in the latest update. To show that you only see a status symbol next to a damage number IF there has been a status proc)

Spoiler

Phantasma not proccing right amount of status:

L8rZMEu.jpg

 

Regular damage number when no status has been procced:

8Nw1604.jpg

Anyways... thank you for your time, I hope this gets considered.

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I like it, other weapon types need condition overload. I really want to ventilate foes with the Braton Prime. Or make the Zylok the double tap weapon it was meant to be. 

 

Another thing I've been coming across, status immunity. A lot of tanky enemies are immune to status, resulting in raw damage, or critical damage being the main way to take those enemies down. Mostly liches, Stalker, Sentients and Eidolons. 

My thought would be to give those units an 80% immunity, resulting in a 100% status chance weapon having 20% status chance on those enemies. 

 

I'm wondering if the limit to how many status effects condition overload could benefit from could be increased to fit with the increase of Blood Rush's ease of use. 

After all, an enemy with 20 slash procs on him shouldn't be feeling as tanky as the one with just 3 slash procs. I might be using some underpowered weapons for this. My experience is with a high speed Lacera.

 

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4 hours ago, nslay said:

Well, you observed something wrong that I missed. I filed a bug report on their incorrect calculations. If they correct their calculation, the values should go up a little bit (e.g. Tigris Prime should be 13%, Vaykor Hek should be 12%, Corinth should be 6%, etc...).

Thanks for pointing this out. I can't believe DE made this mistake... wow.

I found out a thread where there was a link to the point of the Devstream where the discussion on probabilities was. Essentially Steve & Scott said that the Status Chance for Shotguns was meant to be should have been Status/pellet originally. So, with the x3 comment, they meant that it would be 3 times what was meant to be should have been originally. So yeah. The values are, apparently, "correct" as they are right now. Only that the status that has been tripled is something that was never in game to begin with. That's why i could not find a way to make it "make sense" to me.

Edit:

I mean... The Tigris line to me suggests that the actual values used for what "should have been" has not made into the game and the current valuse looked on a case on case basis, since what we had in game might not have been built with the "should have been" in mind. You know, go with the flow and balance things as they are currently, not how it would have worked. But... that's another story. And that's a gut feeling. No numbers to back it up. Again, not good with stats. I might very well be wrong!

Edited by TRPBWhite
Adding to it a bit and correcting one statement.
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17 hours ago, zuraja said:

Amprex being able to permanently stunlock anything that isn't status immune seems a bit OP.

In order to even have electricity on the Amprex, they would need to mod for it. Giving up other elemental combos that would Vastly give more damage. Like Corrosive, and Magnetic for corpus.

If you can give up lots of damage for cc, then that just means there is 1 more way to play the game. It would hardly be game breaking

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2 hours ago, Sickle_Slayer said:

Phantasma doesn't proc the right amount of status using the status/pellet calculation:

So, with the change to status for shotguns, ALL of the Phantasma's pellets/beams should have a chance to proc status individually, just like any other shotgun. But currently, that is not the case. 

Right now the damage numbers will Show that the Phantasma is proccing multiple status per shot, but in reality it is only letting 1 of those shown procs Proc on the enemy.

I saw several other people mention this, but it seems like both the Phantasma and the Phage treat their "multishot" as if they are a single beam that can only proc once per damage instance. Instead of multiple beams that each do their own separate damage and status proccing.

Heres a screenshot of it, the Phantasma is getting at least 3 separate procs shown, but the enemy only gets effected by a Single proc out of all of them. (And included a screenshot of how damage numbers look if they don't proc anything, just to show that nothing has been changed with how they appear in the latest update. To show that you only see a status symbol next to a damage number IF there has been a status proc)

  Hide contents

Phantasma not proccing right amount of status:

L8rZMEu.jpg

 

Regular damage number when no status has been procced:

8Nw1604.jpg

Anyways... thank you for your time, I hope this gets considered.

Definitely seeing this as well and is probably the reason why the phantasma feels way crappier than before. So here's to hoping it will get fixed soon.

The shotgun status changes should either be removed from beam shotguns or the procs actually be changed to happen per beam rather than being combined into one.

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So just anecdotal play testing here - corrosive and gas feel noticeably less powerful (although it requires enemy levels > 100 to really see it).  Viral-heat is fairly awesome now; seems like a good choice against both armor and shields.  Some things have risen and others have fallen, but so far nothing crazy out of balance that I've run across yet...

Overall, I'm enjoying the challenge of figuring out what works and what doesn't and what the changes mean on a practical level.

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On 2020-03-05 at 3:08 PM, Jarriaga said:

The enemy armor scalling change showed that Grineer are nothing without their armor. Now players find them to be like paper.

Current viral + slash will only make that worse.

If general balancing is the intention, then viral's current effect is a problem. It will become mandatory as it gets no competition, more so when paired with slash. Rather than outright nerfing slash or viral, making them hard to pair by giving the viral proc to a damage type that competes with slash in priority is a sensible approach. It also makes sense on practical terms with regards to what you'd expect out of the damage type definitions. You don't expect fire to get you wet.

Which, as I mentioned in my post, is inferior to what slash does to armor at the end of the day. Now pair that with current viral.

Indeed, Viral is positively gamebreakingly overpowered in its current state.  It was good before - to the point of being one of the most valuable status procs - but now it stacks up to obscene amounts of damage multiplication, works on all targets (since everything has "health" that must be burned through in the end).

It is important to note that most of elemental effects are now wonderful and would be worth building if Viral wasn't currently outshining everything so much it is derailing everything this patch comes so close to accomplishing.

What starts at the same amount of damage multiplication as before (200%, previously by halving enemy health) now SCALES beyond what was ALREADY one of the most useful status effects... and most of the others have been nerfed (rather than buffed).  Viral stacks should range from 1.5x (an initial nerf) on first application to 2.5x on maximum stacks (a slight buff from previous state) rather than starting at 2x (previous norm) IMMEDIATELY and scaling up to a monstrous 4.5x (blasting Corrosive out of the water as sheer garbage by comparison with the cap that Corrosive now has at higher levels).

I tested my weapons in the Simulacrum against enemies of an appropriate level for ordinary endgame as we have received it (aka, Level 100 - since DE seemed to have espoused that as endgame with Sorties, Arbitrations, and Kuva Lich leveling) and Corrosive almost invariably loses to Viral on my status weapons - yes, against armored Level 100 targets.  I don't think the game should be balanced around endurance-runners, but for the record this will only WORSEN with higher levels that endurance runners face (the Viral always provides the same multiplication, but the cap on Corrosive means that it will scale worse and worse with levels).  But Viral is already better than Corrosive on oneshot weapons (multiplier effective against more target types and status effect is meaningful after one application rather than requiring stacks like Corrosive).  The result is that Viral is almost uniformly better than Corrosive.  Worse, Heat does the majority of Corrosive's effect and can be PAIRED WITH VIRAL for devastatingly overpowered results.

The main competition for Viral was always Corrosive and Gas, and we've already seen how Corrosive fails.  As others have said, Gas has been gutted completely and unfairly, to the point of being completely useless now - somehow worse than Magnetic was before this update. 

Magnetic is, naturally, still garbage - it should be an EMP Burst effect that either acts as a total shield knockout instantly, or that causes the current  increased damage effect to all targets in an AoE like that of the toxin cloud from Gas - allowing preemptive setup on multiple targets rather than a debuff onto your initial target that means nothing at all because the shields disappear by the time you have it stacked.

Pretty much every other proc type is slightly better.  Slightly being the operative word, and they weren't highly competitive against the former Holy Trinity of Viral, Corrosive, and Gas.  Corrosive now falls into the "so-so" category others were in before (and still are in) now, and Gas is now sharing the "garbage" category Magnetic previously had to its lonesome.  Meanwhile, Viral is buffed.  I do not understand how this slipped through unnoticed.

I've changed builds on all my weapons.  Nearly every single one of my weapons now uses Viral, whereas previously a variety of different elemental combinations were viable and even preferable (with Viral only claiming "best element" award on "many" weapons, not "nearly everything in the entire game")  The primary exceptions are Komorex (because it has innate Viral procs, so I can freely build the massively over-buffed Viral alongside Corrosive and Heat) and Hema (because it has innate Viral, so I can fully stack the over-buffed Viral with Corrosive and Heat).  Yeah.  Same reason in both cases.  Because the Viral is free, I don't have to build it.  If things don't have it, I'm building it.  Synoid Gammacor?  Viral.  Glaxion Vandal?  Viral.  Rubico Prime?  Viral.  Vulkar Wraith?  Viral.  Baza Prime?  Viral.  Kuva Ogris?  Viral.

You know what unites these weapons about these weapons and their playstyles?  Absolutely nothing at all.  They all build Viral now though.  EVERYTHING builds Viral now.

As soon as people figure out how this update works and tests things, we're going to see nothing but Viral builds on almost every weapon in the game.  It's a disaster gone live that is killing diversity, when diversity is what makes this game so exciting.  It's fun to test out different weapons and see how they excel at exploiting different mechanics to accomplish the same end of defeating enemies.  Or so it was, until this patch, unless something is done about the freak show that is Viral unleashed.  I can no longer in good faith build weapons for anything other than Viral, without feeling like I am deliberately hamstringing my own performance.  Something REALLY needs to be done.

I propose three changes:
1) Reduce Viral damage amplification range to 1.5x (one stack) to 2.5x (max stacks).  Something to this general tune is going to be necessary to prevent it from absolutely obliterating the competition in the status application field.

2) Raise the cap on how much armor Corrosive can remove to 95%.  Corrosive can under no circumstance ever compete with Heat doing half its job as it tags along for free on Viral builds unless that cap is raised to around this much.

3) Return Gas to its mechanics before this update.  Gas is beyond worthless now.  Gas currently deals an AoE of a damage type that everything in the game resists (don't BS me about Infested when Toxic Ancients exist and Gas cannot be build alongside Radiation to strip their auras) and that bypasses no defenses of any type - it is utter trash on ever level!  Gas had a meaningful, balanced place in the game before of which it has now been robbed.  Just give it that role back.

As minor recommendations:
1) Change Magnetic to an EMP burst that chains like the Electric Tesla Chain to nearby targets, applying the current debuff to ALL targets hit by the chaining.  Shields are MUCH lower priority than health, so you need a more potent effect than Viral to make it compete with other status types, or it will always be worse.  By giving it AoE setup that leaves shields ready to drop at a moments notice for ALL enemies in the area, there is just a chance it might finally be worth it.

2) Possibly nerf Heat armor strip slightly to further emphasize the identity of Corrosive as the optimal armor strip choice since Heat is also providing Panic and DoT alongside the armor strip that is now almost as good (due to the Corrosive nerfs).  This is not a substitute for raising the Corrosive armor strip cap, but rather a potential complementary suggestion.

 

Again, I stress that the everything else among the changes is great.  The stacking bonuses for the elements I have not discussed in this post are perfect - but remain pointless to build or try out so long as they are completely nuked into oblivion by the overbearing presence of Viral.  There is a whole wonderful and exciting world of new modding possibilities in this patch that will remain completely unexplored until Viral is addressed (and preferably - Corrosive and Gas with the recommended buffs I described).

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Make Elements Great Again!!!

BLAST:

Stagger. Stacks increase stagger strength, enough stacks apply 'Lifted' status.  If enemy is already lifted blast procs continue lifted state. (Devil may cry gun juggling enemies!)

IMPACT:

Short push back (causes enemies to leave cover, no interrupt/stagger animation) and reduces accuracy. With melee the push back would be in the direction of the swing, allowing you to 'sweep' a group of enemies tightly together, for follow up punch through attacks or AoE damage abilities. Stacks continue pushing them back, and reducing accuracy up to 100%, at which point they are staggered briefly and drop/fumble/lose their ranged weapons, forcing them to melee. 

GAS:

AoE Gas DoT.  Stacks increase size of AoE Gas DoT proc.  Max stack also procs a 'Terror' effect where affected enemies flee (presumably fleeing the gas cloud).

COLD:

Flash freezes enemy in place for a very short duration (0.5s) followed by a slow effect while they 'thaw'.  Stacks re-apply flash freeze and increase slow effect of thaw.

ELECTRICAL:

Stuns and damages enemies in an AoE, like it already does.  But, after enough stacks (5 to 10) it 'discharges' the Electrical stacks, removing them, and dealing significant bonus damage per stack. It also discharges any Electrical stacks on enemies in an AoE, with the same effect.

Edited by 2ndProtectsThe1st
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Most of these changes feel very good. I love status proccing over 100, and I love that all types stack so you don't have 'wasted' procs. I only have a few notes:

  • Magnetic is still irrelevant, esp procs. Only one faction is even affected by it, and even then you're better off just using toxin. (Maybe give it Void's bullet-attract status, a la Mag's magnetise, and give Void proc something else?)
  • Viral is strong. Too strong. It will enforce the meta just as corrosion did. Right now, viral+heat is the only load-out that matters by a large margin.
  • Gas is now literally useless. As in, literally. It used to be used for only one thing: AoE toxin procs. Its direct damage was mediocre thanks to its terrible faction multipliers, but now that it is a proc that (1) ends as soon as the affected enemy dies (ie: instantly) and (2) deals gas's said terrible faction damage, it is literally the worst damage type in the game by a mile. The only enemy that ever cared about gas damage was fodder infested, which are such little threat that you can heat (and combine with corrosive for ancients) and leave gas in the dumpster where it belongs. If you need gas faction damage to deal with fodder, you can't handle the ancients anyway - especially since Toxic Ancients still give them Gas immunity.
  • Impact is hit hard by this change. What used to be a stunlock now flings enemies around wildly, making follow-up shots miss. It makes high RoF impact weapons far less viable, sometimes even unusable.
  • Attack speed is king. Now that all status stack, there is no room for hard-hitters anymore. Especially in melee, where combo-counter also favours high attack speed. High attack speed was already better in any scenario except for stealth/finishers. Slower weapons, esp melee (like hammers and machetes) would benefit from hitting harder, resulting in somewhat higher overall DPS but lower proc/combo rates.

....also, I'm not sure (I can't test it in a clean environment) but Hijack seems to be dying WAY faster than it should. At the halfway point without stopping. I'm wondering that the radiation stacking faction damage means they're destroying the cart much faster than anticipated.

Edited by Snackrat
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On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Type

Stacking Behaviour when a duplicate Status Effect Occurs: 

Slash

Each Slash Status has its own duration, but now we only show a maximum of 10 damage numbers in the HUD, damage is unaffected, but reducing how many damage events we show helps with performance

Impact

Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status (removed previous change of adding Ragdoll as maximum Stagger consequence).

Puncture

The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage. Subsequent Puncture Status add +5% weakening, leading to up to 75% (capped). Each Puncture Status has a duration of 6 Seconds.

Cold

The first Cold Status Effect deals 25% slow. Subsequent Cold Status Effects deal +5% slow for a total of 70% slow at 10 procs. Each Cold Status has a duration of 6 seconds.

Heat

No Change.

Toxin

See Slash, plus the base duration of a Toxin Status Effect now matches Slash for 6 seconds.

Electric

AoE Electric Damage that is part of the Status Effect can now reoccur while the target is still under the stun animation of another Electric Status Effect.

Blast

Grants the Blast Status Effect a single target. Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% inaccuracy for  for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration.

Corrosive

The first Corrosive Status Effect strips 26% Armor. Subsequent Corrosive Status Effects strip 6% more Armor, leading up to 80% Armor removal.

Each Corrosive Status Effect lasts 8 seconds.
Note: Corrosive was the only Status with infinite Duration and 100% Efficacy toward a defensive stat. This was necessary to some based on how Armor Scaled. We feel our rebalancing efforts need a differently behaving Corrosive Proc to balance out all Status overall. 

Radiation

The first Radiation Status Effect has an enemy deal 100% Damage to allies. Subsequent Radiation Status adds +50% damage, leading to up to 550% (capped). Each Radiation Status Effect has a duration of 12 seconds.

Magnetic

New Status Effect entirely: enhanced Damage! First Magnetic Status Effect deals 100% additional Shield damage, subsequent Magnetic Status add +25% for a total of 325% (capped). Enemies under a Magnetic Status Effect cannot regenerate Shields. Magnetic Status Duration is now 6 seconds.

Viral

New Status Effect entirely: enhanced Damage! First Viral Status Effect deals 100% additional Health damage, subsequent Viral Status add +25% for a total of 325% (capped).
Note: Before Viral would halve a target’s health pool and simply refresh the duration. Now it deals 2x Damage to Health, and can scale up to 4.5x Damage on repeat Status Effects. 

Gas

The base duration of a Gas Status Effect now matches Slash for 6 seconds. No longer does AoE with forced Poison Status Effect (resulting in Poison DoT for enemies in radius), instead it does AoE DoT Gas damage around the target.

 


Why: Critical has long been king - and while we are leaving Critical as is, our goal is to bring Status into the Arsenals in a new light for all Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons.Our long-term goal with this change is to build upon this series of changes to eventually allow Status to impact bigger threats like Liches and Eidolons.

 

Slash: Fine. It eats away at enemy health types, including shields.

Impact: Um... why not give Impact the lowering of accuracy from concussions (Think boxing) Keep knockdowns/Ragdoll to Blast.  And let it interact with Cold Status, inflicting more damage to enemies with any level of cold status. Enough Impacts from melee weapons could open an enemy to a finisher (KO).

Puncture: Lowering enemy damage never made much sense to me. I'd make it deal damage that bypasses defenses. Additional layers become Perforate, allowing other damage types to also bypass defenses at the same rate. (Defenses being Armor, Shields, treated the same by this status type) It could also be given a bonus against enemy walls (nullifier bubbles, ice eximus bubble walls, grineer and corpus portable cover things and enemy shield/gunner units' portable shields, as well as Bursa frontal armor.)

Now, you have the 3 base statuses that are on most weapons providing non-interferring statuses that nobody has to worry about negating with -stat rivens and the like.
Continuing on:

Cold: Allow stacking of this status lead to Freeze... that's obvious to me... (I'd also allow attacks that inflict enough cold damage in a single strike to immediately freeze a target.)

Heat: Fine (fire should spread on contact with other enemies)

Toxin: Would make sense to be a Damage over Time, plus the weakening effect of neo-Puncture with further layers as the target becomes more sick. Perhaps reduce healing received while infected? (Toxin should spread to nearby enemies on the target's death, like the poison gas could left by Noxes.)

Electric: Stun that spreads to nearby enemies sounds ok for crowd control. I'd like to see it have a special interaction with robotics, being more effective.

Blast: This is where you can have knockdowns/ragdolls. People can mod to avoid it or focus on it. Maybe disable a blasted enemy from running their normal AI routines that send them running to set off alarms and take cover... all confused with their senses overloaded by the blast.

Corrosive: Seems nerfed into the ground simply to change the meta. The duration is way too short... because the enemies you'll be using this against will be tougher, and need to have their armor stripped. I'll need to play with it, but just going by the other existing status effects, this one seems lacking. Plus, the cap... I mean, maybe keep the cap for bosses and special units, but allow it to go down to 1% for normal enemies. (being able to keep an enemy's armor in tact - even at 1% - allows the corrosive bonus damage to be retained against certain enemy armor/flesh types.)

Radiation: Um... you do know how weak enemies are when they're attacking each other, right? (Others have already mentioned the 6000% increase in reflected damage offered by the Amalgam mod... being laughable... and this status is only 550%, with multiple stacks to achieve?) I like the disabling of enemy auras, like Ancients and Eximus units have. Radiation should have a strong Damage over time element to it... dealing damage to enemies around them.

Magnetic: People are going to be doing all they can to bypass enemy shields, because they can, thus Magnetic is still going to be something you don't mod for. Disabling enemy shield regeneration may be useful in some boss battles... if you follow through on making status effects actually work on them (like they should...). Maybe weaken magnetized enemies to heavy attacks, pulling weapons toward them with increased velocity.

Viral: Viral still sounds very good. Probably one of the best of the status effects.

Gas: So... this decouples Gas damage from Toxin, essentially. Because the effect is the same, a DoT, just based off gas damage. I like the AoE zone control offered by gas clouds that can eat away at enemies passing through them. It would be interesting if gasses could take on the properties of other statuses on a weapon that creates the gas AoE... so you could potentially have radiation clouds, toxic clouds, viral clouds, corrosive clouds, etc (defaulting to a combination of toxin hp loss and heat panic.) - some of these types of clouds would be hard to create without innate statuses on the weapons that are not created through mod combinations.

 

~~~~~

Warframes could be given more passives that interact with status effects, like:

  • Banshee's punctures could lead to creating weakspots.
  • Frost's cold attacks could lead to faster freezes - less stacks required.
  • Atlas's impacts could lead to faster KO openers.
  • Volt's electric status chaining could have much larger range.
  • Mag's Magnetic procs could create temporary bullet attractor effect on targets, preventing subsequent misses.
  • Garuda's slashes could simultaneously eat away at enemy shields AND health.

~~~~~

I like the overall goal to make these status effects that could also be inflicted on bosses without having to resort to making them immune to everything.

I give the concepts a thumbs-up, with minor exceptions as listed above. (I do think someone dug up some past design documents about changing damage from the past, and forgot all the forum feedback that was received... repeating a least a couple face-palm-inducing decisions (ragdoll, puncture).

 

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After playing a little bit I must say that the impact porc is extremely annoying, I am glad it is being changed. I am very disappointed that the meta of slash being the only IPS stat that actually matters is continuing. It would be nice if the puncture or impact proc actually contributed to killing the targets. I am kind of tired of slash being the only viable damage type for most weapons. I realize the elemental combinations are greatly improved (mostly due to armor nerf) but, that being said, IPS is what almost all of the weapons in game are based on. It would be nice to be able to want to use a puncture or impact based weapon. As it stands whenever a new weapon releases my first question will always be: is it slash based? 

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Two-day impressions:

Blast and impact effects are clearly backwards. Players who mod their weapons for blast damage, or use explosive weapons with innate blast damage, expect their targets to be knocked around, and it isn't happening anymore. On the other hand, most weapons have impact damage, and players often do not want targets moving randomly while they're shooting an automatic rifle. It's also exceedingly strange that explosive weapons can now stagger and knock down their users, but not their targets. A lot of others have said it: give blast the stagger scaling to ragdoll, and give impact the accuracy reduction from concussive force.

Corrosive is now being ignored in favor of heat and viral. Full armor stripping against high level enemies is less necessary, and other damage-enhancing effects are useful. Success! But corrosive status is extremely underwhelming and of questionable value, even though the damage type suffers few type penalties and is very versatile. This is not ideal.

Magnetic status is...nerfed?! The old effect (shields reduced by 75%) had the practical impact of increasing all shield damage by 300% instantly. The new one starts at 100% and scales up to 325% over 10 procs. This is simply weaker than before. It would be understandable as part of an effort to make shields more relevant, except for one problem: very few people used magnetic damage even before this change, and magnetic status was widely considered among the least useful (except under enhanced shield sortie conditions). Now it's worse than "least useful". Blocking shield regen is nice, but we don't let enemies regenerate shields anyway, so we'll never see this effect. But what's this over here on the void status effect? A bullet attractor? Let's give that to magnetic instead! Keep the extra shield damage, but it needs more.

As long as we're reconsidering how status works, it's weird for bleeding to affect shields, and it's weird for toxin to bypass shields. The shields should prevent those sorts of attacks from making contact in the first place, shouldn't they? The only thing that should bypass shields is gas, and that now doesn't! Speaking of gas, the status effect has been crippled by being forced to use its own damage type. It does half as much damage as before to all flesh and cloned flesh targets. These modifiers need a fresh looking at, because something isn't right, here. It should not be doing less damage against targets that need to breathe than against those that don't.

Void has been left out of this rework! Void status still makes no sense. Why not make it do its thing against all sorts of targets? Neutralize all forms of damage type resistance, not just the Sentient kind. Let magnetic and slash damage take full effect against alloy-armored targets, and heat burn through proto shields. Let this scale up to 100% and apply for the now standard 6-second duration (so we don't have to keep re-stripping Sentient adaptation). Again, give its current bullet attractor over to magnetic status.

The assumption of a standard 10-stack scale for all status effects slants things heavily towards extreme multi-hit and/or high fire rate weapons. This might be excessive. Please consider a lower number.

Recap:

  • Swap blast and impact effects, and let blast scale up to full ragdoll. Explosive weapons that stagger you but not your enemies suck.
  • Corrosive needs help. It's being overshadowed by heat, due to the lower proc count requirement.
  • Magnetic was arguably the worst status effect in the game before, and now it's even worse. Let it steal void's bullet attractor.
  • Gas should be the only damage type to bypass shields. Shielded targets should be immune to bleed and toxin. Gas needs its modifiers looked at.
  • Void should, rather than applying a bullet attractor, put a lower limit on all damage type modifiers, scaling to 100%. (Neutralize all resistances, not just Sentient ones.)
  • 10 stacks is too many. Please. 😞
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30 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

10 stacks is too many. Please. 😞

If they went through and increased the status chance on weapons that have low rate of fire and aren't bullet hoses... Then maybe 10 stacks would be alright. Since that way they could make it more common for those slow firing weapons to proc 2-3 status effects.

If they balance the numbers right, then it could actually be a decent way of balancing things

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just a random thought on the impact status effect:

Its kind of annoying that the enemys stagger/ragdoll out of aim when u hit with multible status instances. A thing i would like to try out is that the enemy just gets stunned and pushed back away from u instead. So when u hit them with mulible impact procs they just get pushed away from u in a linear way and are still easy to hit. Maybe add an increased recovery time for additiolal status instances.

As a bonus u can do the same thing other game do with  similar mechanics and that is that u do bonus dmg when u push the enemy against a wall.

It could be fun to flaten enemys against the wall with a strun for exaple.

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I think that there is a pretty simple way to drastically improve the system:

1. Make impact and puncture useful and not detrimental (for example, impact procs could lead to stun for several seconds and puncture procs could apply a small damage increase, like +5% per stack)

2. Make new and improved IPS easier to proc by reducing elemental priority to 0.5 or by buffing IPS mods 

3. ????

4. GROFIT

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Congratulations on your 7th anniversary. I only wish you didn't drop a huge turd on us for a present.

Do you even test these changes at higher levels? Every recent update have been a blunder after another. I had to wait almost 3 months for you to fix melee after you changed that. And despite not being as good as it once was, it didn't break it. These changes are just awful. Corrosive and Slash see a huge nerf. At higher levels it now takes almost two or three times the amount of ammo and shots to kill enemies, which means you'll be dead pretty fast. Gas is a joke and completely useless. Blast is even more annoying now than before. You completely took out the fun associated with diversity in damage by making viral the only viable option at those levels, which means more forma on weapons since cold mods have a different polarity. Well, i'm not playing this game. Until you revert these changes or fix this mess and make it close to what it was, i'm dropping the game.

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Ok so I was checking at the stats of multiple shotguns and I noticed something I really didn't think of before I was actually seeing it for whatever reason. The issue comes from the fact that before the patch the status chance of a shotgun was basically reported/calculated from the "full shot" (all the pellets actually hitting the target) and when it got changed it caused the following issue. Let's look at two tigrises:

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Even if prime version had higher status before the patch (30% vs 28%) it also shoots more pellets per shot, which in return changes the status chance per pellet to be actually lower than the sancti version. I suppose the status chance is still higher if all the pellets actually hit the target but this is not the case in most situations. A lot of the enemies can't take full damage before dying so only few pellets will hit and deal damage. Similarly shooting from further away will make more pellets to not hit because of the spread of the weapon. Also not everyone is 100% accurate with shotguns all the time landing all the pellets in all situations, which is quite obvious.

We all know that status shotguns were actually nerfed quite a bit and this was also confirmed by my testing. Previously a status shotguns like strun wraith and tigris prime and even boar prime could take down an armored corrupted heavy gunner level 170 in just two or three shots. Killing the same enemy with a crit shotgun like vaykor hek and corinth would take 4-6 shots depending on the RNG of corrosive procs because even if those things could have higher than twice the dps, they would still be hitting armor with very little reduction to it. Currently the same status shotguns I mentioned above against the same enemy still take those 2-3 shots to kill even if they have drastically reduced armor, but critical shotguns can now actually even one shot that same enemy (corinth + mediocre riven I am looking at you) or take them down in two shots. So in short: status shotgun efficiency remained the same as before while crit shotguns got boosted up by a lot in the terms of time to kill or ammo used.

I suggest something has to be done. Maybe you need to individually finetune the status chance per pellet especially on those pre-patch high status shotguns because they are no longer performing all that great and are actually losing to crit shotguns.

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After reading feedback on the update, i see people want ways to help them deal damage. What about this

Impact - on proc, staggers and disables enemy shields. Shield stay disabled for 2 seconds at first, and increases by 1 second per proc. Caps at 10 seconds. Should work on tenno after some condition 😈😈😈

Why? Hitting someones shields hard is causing the shield to malfunction

Puncture - Temporarily creates a weakpoint on the enemy that ignores 10% of enemy armor, increasing by 10% per proc. Caps at 100% 

Why? Puncture is creating a hole in the enemy's armor, to the point where flesh is being hit.

Slash - In addition to current stats, each proc afterwards makes their health less resistant against other status effects. Starts at 10% and increases by 10%. Caps at 60%

Why? Slash procs create wounds, and wounds in the skin causes the insides to have less protection, especially to toxins.

Cold - Cold procs start with a 50% slow that rises by 5% per proc until the enemy is completely frozen. Simply damaging a cold proc enemy causes nearby enemies to take 100 damage. Killing a frozen enemy deals 90% of that enemies health as damage to other nearby enemies.

Why? Ice forms on the enemy, and is then broken off when you hit it sending that ice at nearby enemies. Killing a frozen enemy will cause bigger pieces ice with pieces of the enemy in them to jet out from the enemy, nearly slicing enemies in half.

Electric - Stays the same except 10% of the damage youre dealing will be spread to nearby enemies each proc. Kills have a 25% chance of dropping an energy orb

Why? Electricity can chain and electricity powers things, why not let it power warframes a little

Heat - in addition to its current stats, the duration of the proc is increased by 6 seconds per proc, Caps at 30 seconds. Kills have a 25% chance of dropping a health orb

Why? Youre adding more fuel to the fire and health doesnt drop much.

Toxin - The health required to kill an enemy gets increased by 5% health per proc. Caps at 30% health left. 

Why? Deadly toxins shorten your lifespan

Radiation - Each additional proc cayses enemies within a 20m radius to increase their chances of ignoring the tenno and attacking their teammate by 15% per proc. At 100%, the tenno will be ignored and enemies will be opened to parazon finishers when they fall below 50% health.

Why? They are angered by betrayal so they are prioritising killing the trader first despite the bigger threat. Sometimes our emotions ruin our judgement

Corrosive - i think can stay the same. The 8 second duration kinda doesnt seem like it will be noticed much though.

Gas - Reduces enemy accuracy within 5m radius by 20% per proc, up to 100%. At 100% enemies within a 5m radius of the gas proc enemy will stay still and cough as they begin to take toxin damage because a gas cloud has been formed. The gas cloud will remain there for 10 seconds, harming anything that goes in it.

Why? The gas was just obstructing their vision but now its getting deadly. Enemies can no longer take it

Magnetic - In addition to its current stats, it adds a 1m radius hitbox to the enemies head

Why? Magnets pull on some things so

Blast - Increases the radius in which enemies take damage and are knocked down from by 1m per proc. At 5m, an explosion will occur that spreads the status effects on the enemy you hit, to nearby enemies, knocking them down, and reseting the stacks on that enemy to 0. The stacks for blast only will be reset but full stacks of the other procs will be spread to every enemy hit.

Why? Explosive weapons are capable of spreading status effects so why cant blast?

Viral - Its.. its just perfect! No change

 

Thoughts?

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Pretty much the only thing status shotguns had going for them was the ability to hit 100% SC, and now outside a couple outliers they've been given the old hucklebuck.  If you're going to leave it like this, at least buff the base damage on them or something.  They're neither fun nor useful like this, and I can't imagine what sort of internal testing is going on that would coax you into nerfing lesser-performing weapons that were already largely used by enthusiasts keeping a flame lit for a particular gun rather than the general population.

The gas damage nerf is well into WTFville, of course.  I actually really like the change to gas damage for the procs from a thematic standpoint, but you should have left the function of the effect exactly as it was(though perhaps altering the +toxin mod damage boosting function to work on some average of tox and heat) and changed the weakness tables to give gas some HP-damage advantages across the factions.  Magnetic remains junk because it doesn't have a bonus vs any HP type.  That really sucks for me, because I love the idea of magnetic as a damage type.  I mean seriously, it should at least be strong vs robotic and ferrite.

I'll parrot what others have said about impact/blast.  Impact both as a damage type and status effect has been a net negative for a long time.  Changing impact to a stagger/open-for-finisher-at-higher-stacks would be ideal and on point thematically, and I like the idea of blast being changed to a small AoE on proc.  Added stacks could either increase the splash damage, or increase the radius by another 0.1 or whatever.  You'd have to be careful with that though, either trying to keep the proc damage kind of low, or coding it as a singular event so you don't get a chain-reaction of AoE bursts when you use an already-AoE weapon with blast damage.  All that said, by all means keep ragdolls on death, and have bodies act like bouncy balls when the killing shot contains blast damage. :crylaugh:

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Impact was one of the worst and most annoying status effects , now it is even worse The second impact proc should just make them standing still for a sec . 

Viral became the king because it amplifies any dmg dealt to the target( dont think it should work like that ) . Radiation is still not worth using because enemies dmg almost nothing to eachother.

Rad should do bonus dmg stacking like viral but not to the health so it does not bypass armor. 

Gas is totally ruined after the math changes and the duration nerf. Even viral is better on non armored enemies . That should be the the best situation for gas and it still does nothing. 

Electric could use a range buff for the stun imo . 

The other dmg procs are looking fine !

 

Edited by potiisbest
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