Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

[Flying_Scorpion]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Irmao2Vigilante said:

So, some of the main points so far:

1. Huge nerf on shotgun with 30% status chance or greater and number of pellets > 3. DE allowed the previous method for so long and they launched new shotguns fully aware of the method and even create diversity based on it. The change on methodology affected balance and diveristy previously defined. The equation choosen to attempt to rebalanceotgun sh only worked when pellet number is smaller or equal 3. Overall, there is a huge loss of diversity for shotguns as many more burst and auto weapons outclass most shotguns as status weapons. (Pareto Front reduced)
2. Beam Shotguns like Phantasma didn't use the previous method so the changes made them stupidily weak. Therefore, as they behave as beam weapons, to revert the changes seems reasonable
3. Viral is overpower and magnetic is really weak because all enemies have health, once shield is neutralized enemies are quick disposed due multiple stacks of viral whereas magnetic only work on shield and not health
4. Fire is doing too many things
5. DE hasn't addressed this thread for more than 45 days, so why i'm still caring about it?

 

Did i forgot something?

Finally someone I agree with on EVERY point! I agree with you...on EVERY point you made. This has been a problem - not necessarily the problems that you're bringing up, but the amount of disagreement between the posters in this thread over certain issues. You've got posts in here supporting the methodology DE employed when changing shotguns, and then you've got people like you and me who find the formula to be problematic because it created OP status effects in shotguns like the Kohm, and UP status effects on shotguns like the Tigris Prime. You've got people who instead of wanting Viral to be nerfed, they want everything else to be buffed up to viral's level (so more powercreep, are you kidding me?). So the question is, who does DE listen to? Or will they just ignore all these posts and not bother touching the problem at all? Surely no matter what they do, they're going to piss some people off. You can't make everyone happy. But you, this post you just made that I quoted, I agree with on every single point. And agreeing on things is something that seems to be rare among the various posters in this thread.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Flying_Scorpion

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Magnetic is still awful and unused

You don't need extra damage to destory shields 

We can already one shots most shields in the game

 

My suggestion:

If you hit Enemies effected by magentic status effect with melee, you gain a percentage of your energy back 

[Andele3025]

On 2020-04-17 at 8:10 PM, Flying_Scorpion said:

 because it created OP status effects in shotguns like the Kohm, and UP status effects on shotguns like the Tigris Prime.

Just very technical note: Kohm is both OP and UP when it comes to status because it nerfs itself as it spools up as the "new calculation" seems to have been implemented as just a modifier on the old one, instead of being a actual change on the stat table (or someone bothered to give the kohm new stats for every level of spool and proceeded to nerf its status chance with each by pellet count of the spoolup, which makes no sense because using the logic DE stated before its should have been treated mechanically closer to the weapon gaining multishot mods).

[(PSN)Irmao2Vigilante]

it seems this thread collected all suggestions, comments, opinions and emotions involving shotguns and status changes. All of us who participated in it, we re ready to know how much of the discussions you guys followed, to know if you are already meeting online to debate about it and to discover your decisions. What will you do, keep, change or thrown away? etc etc

in this game we love.

 

I imagine today's devstream it is too close, and likely this matter won't be addressed there. if may i ask something  - please, do address this matter soon.

 

meanwhile, stay healthy. Godspeed to you and all DE team, specially the ones we don't see or know.

[Casardis]

Gas needs to be looked at again.

It's still not in a right spot, even against Infested, especially compared to others like Viral and Heat (Heat can have infinite stacks of numbers, and Viral's damage increase circumvent Infested resistance). Even with high damage, the DoT it deals caps at 10 and barely does damage to surrounding enemies most of the time. Viral-Heat is a no-brainer combo for all factions it seems, even shielded enemies.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Kuva Drakgoon is a prime example of this new status system not feeling good.  I can have 20-30+ pellets but can only reach 20-40% status.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

15 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

Kuva Drakgoon is a prime example of this new status system not feeling good.  I can have 20-30+ pellets but can only reach 20-40% status.

that's 20-40% status per pellet

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

13 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

that's 20-40% status per pellet

which blows.

[SprinKah]

Can we get Blast knock down effect back please!

It's not the same issue as Impact because it's not a built-in damage type, you gotta build for it which makes Blast optional.

Blast was a really useful elemental combo for a lot of weapons, especially launchers, the accuracy decrease effect that it has now doesn't do anything at all and it's kinda useless. 

[MacIntoc]

On 2020-05-12 at 1:04 PM, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

that's 20-40% status per pellet

Wich is almost nothing. Would you build a rifle that have 9% status chance ?

DE should have kept the raw statut chance value as a statut chance per pellet. For example, Tigris Prime had 30% SC by munition, after reword, it should get 30% SC by pellet.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

9 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

Wich is almost nothing. Would you build a rifle that have 9% status chance ?

DE should have kept the raw statut chance value as a statut chance per pellet. For example, Tigris Prime had 30% SC by munition, after reword, it should get 30% SC by pellet.

that is a fairly significant buff over the original status calculation

[MacIntoc]

9 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

that is a fairly significant buff over the original status calculation

Only for shotgun which could not reach  100% status chance. And that was the goal of this change. For shotguns that could reach 100%, that changes almost nothing (Tigris would got 102% status chance per pellet instead of 100%).

 

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

10 hours ago, MacIntoc said:

Only for shotgun which could not reach  100% status chance. And that was the goal of this change. For shotguns that could reach 100%, that changes almost nothing (Tigris would got 102% status chance per pellet instead of 100%).

 

you could replace 1 60/60 mod with Vigilante Armaments.
This would reduce the status chance from 102% to 84% per pellet, but increase the pellet count from 17.6 to 22.4
This results in the average procs per shot increasing from ~17.95 to ~18.86... BUT also seeing a damage-per-shot increase of around ~27%

The way they made it only hurts shotguns that could reach 100% status under the old system, whilst acting as a buff to all the other shotguns.
Seriously the way the tigris prime is now, my build in the new system is the equivalent to 99.97% in the old system, it really only affects the monumentally ridiculous leap from 99.9% to 100%

[MacIntoc]

4 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

you could replace 1 60/60 mod with Vigilante Armaments.
This would reduce the status chance from 102% to 84% per pellet, but increase the pellet count from 17.6 to 22.4
This results in the average procs per shot increasing from ~17.95 to ~18.86... BUT also seeing a damage-per-shot increase of around ~27%

I believe to understand that was the purpose of the update : to reduce the pressure to absolutely reach 100% status chance on shotgun and to make place to other mods.

So why would you replace 1 60/60 per Vigilante Armaments when you can use both, since that sound the best solution ?  You would jump from 22.4 procs per shots to 22.85 procs per shot ! A neglictible increase that simply demonstrate that it would not necessary to use both anymore, but keeping the best one (Vigilante Armaments as you calculated it) and use something else instead of the 60/60.

Moreover, you forget that Tigris Prime did is damage thank to slash DoT, not with raw damage. And slash weigth has been also nerfed, so you lose A LOT of slash procs and the 27% damage increase can't compensate in any way (for Tigris, even the new buff of viral proc is not enought to compensate this only nerf). So your point may ultimately be valid on Boar Prime and Strun Wraith. Is it bad ?

[MacIntoc]

I made a table to compare the number of procs/second of shotguns with innate multishot between :

• the old values of the munition with the old calculation method (Old column)
• the new values of the pellets with the new calculation method (New column)
• the old values of the munition used as the new values of the pellet with the new calculation method (Old munition column)

Weapons	Firerate	pellets/shot + 180% MS mods	Status chance per pellet + 4*60/60 mods			procs/seconde
			Old	New	Old munition	Old	New	Old munition
Corinth	1,17	16,8	8,37%	20,40%	40,80%	1,64	4,01	8,02
Corinth Prime	1,42	16,8	5,91%	30,60%	61,20%	1,41	7,30	14,60
Sancti Tigris	2	16,8	39,72%	47,60%	95,20%	13,34	15,99	31,99
Tigris Prime	2	22,4	100,00%	38,25%	102,00%	44,80	17,14	45,70
Tigris	2	14	45,52%	57,12%	95,20%	12,75	15,99	26,66
Hek	2,17	19,6	23,74%	36,41%	85,00%	10,10	15,49	36,15
Hek	2,17	33,6	23,74%	36,41%	85,00%	17,31	26,55	61,98
Sobek	2,5	14	39,36%	55,08%	91,80%	13,78	19,28	32,13
Sobek	2,5	14	100,00%	69,66%	116,10%	35,00	24,38	40,64
Strun Wraith	2,5	28	100,00%	40,80%	136,00%	70,00	28,56	95,20
Vaykor Hek	3	19,6	23,74%	36,41%	85,00%	13,96	21,41	49,98
Kuva Drakgoon	3,33	28	100,00%	30,60%	102,00%	93,24	28,53	95,10
Exergis	1	8,4	100,00%	122,40%	122,40%	8,40	10,28	10,28
Boar Prime	4,67	22,4	100,00%	38,25%	102,00%	104,61	40,01	106,70

I used this color code :

• dark red : <10 procs/seconde, very bad
• red : <20 procs/seconde, bad
• orange : <30 procs/secondes, average
• yellow : <40 procs/secondes, good
• green : <50 procs/secondes, very good
• dark green : 50+ procs/secondes, OP

/!\ These numbers imply the use of 6 mods (2 multishot and 4 60/60), even 7 with the augment of Hek and Sobek (in italic), it is a full status build which does not necessarily reflect a good solution for some of these weapons /!\

For the complet sheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BvQeqBXcSHtElJTw6MVVP8hzBsP5JQHqgH2fOi9Tdtk/edit?usp=sharing

[nslay]

On 2020-05-18 at 2:17 PM, MacIntoc said:

I made a table to compare the number of procs/second of shotguns with innate multishot between :

• the old values of the munition with the old calculation method (Old column)
• the new values of the pellets with the new calculation method (New column)
• the old values of the munition used as the new values of the pellet with the new calculation method (Old munition column)

Thanks for making this table. My understanding for Sancti Tigris is that players would slot pre-changed Shotgun Savvy to reach 100% status in the old system (i.e. 0.28*(1 + 4*0.6 + 0.3) = 1.036). The Vaykor Hek can reach 100% status using Motus Setup which works very well on this semi-auto hybrid shotgun (so the crit bonus from Motus Setup is also very nice for this weapon!). Sobek's augment also pushes it to 100% status but I see you think it's not a good choice for Sobek (I'm not super experienced with Sobek).

But yes, Motus Setup on Vaykor Hek is a good choice for this weapon (both for status and critical chance). And pre-changed Shotgun Savvy is also a good choice for Sancti Tigris even if that slot is essentially wasted. I think that should be reflected in your table.

For multi-pellet shotguns, I think 100% status in the old system was the best solution for any shotgun primarily because you can use those massive pellet counts to strip almost all armor in just a couple shots (even before the armor scaling change). With the introduction of Motus Setup, that opened up the possibility of shotguns from Drakgoon (23% base status, old system) and up to reach 100% status even if temporarily. Even with stackable procs and the probably overpowered Viral status effect, I think almost all shotguns now can't touch the power of shotguns in the old system... and I think many people in this thread agree (including supporters of this change) that at least some of these shotguns deserve some manual status chance balancing (particularly upward).

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Le 18/05/2020 à 20:17, MacIntoc a dit :

I made a table to compare the number of procs/second of shotguns with innate multishot between :

• the old values of the munition with the old calculation method (Old column)
• the new values of the pellets with the new calculation method (New column)
• the old values of the munition used as the new values of the pellet with the new calculation method (Old munition column)

 

Thanks for sharing.

So Tigris prime, kuva dragkoon, strun wraith and board prime need a stat chance increase around x2.5 to match their former values.
Taking into account that those weapons were not game breaking before rework, this "quick-fix" looks reasonable and should be done

[--UMBRA--BakedCookie]

Everyone crys about shotguns but forgets about unique guns like arca plasmor etc. :D

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, 71r3n said:

Everyone crys about shotguns but forgets about unique guns like arca plasmor etc. :D

That's because this topic is about the Status rework, which included pretty severe changes to pellet-based Shotguns in particular.

Also, if you're gonna necro a topic from 8+ months ago, why not take some time to expand on your point in detail?

What exactly is wrong with Arca Plasmor, what are those other "unique guns" you're having issues with, and why?

[--UMBRA--BakedCookie]

Am 7.2.2021 um 17:08 schrieb NinjaZeku:

That's because this topic is about the Status rework, which included pretty severe changes to pellet-based Shotguns in particular.

Also, if you're gonna necro a topic from 8+ months ago, why not take some time to expand on your point in detail?

What exactly is wrong with Arca Plasmor, what are those other "unique guns" you're having issues with, and why?

Where do i say i have problems with em?

I mentioned them to make ppl realize, there are other shotguns that work without the pelet mechanic etc.

But hey, maybe stop implying stuff and start to read right?

[Lutesque]

On 2021-02-07 at 3:03 PM, 71r3n said:

Everyone crys about shotguns but forgets about unique guns like arca plasmor etc. :D

This is a Strange Post to Revive an 8 Month Old Thread 🤔....

On 2021-02-07 at 6:08 PM, NinjaZeku said:

Also, if you're gonna necro a topic from 8+ months ago, why not take some time to expand on your point in detail?

THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING !!! 😮

On 2021-03-22 at 8:54 PM, 71r3n said:

 

I mentioned them to make ppl realize, there are other shotguns that work without the pelet mechanic etc

The Other one is the Astilla.... It Fires a Single Slug that Explodes on impact. I believe the impact only accounts for 30% of the Total Damage.

The other is the Exergis... Now the Exergis actually is a Pellet Based Shotgun but since the Pellet Count is so Low it inflicts some serious Hardcore Status.... It makes for an amazing weapon specifically on your Specter's loadout since Specter's have Infinite Magazines. 😛.