Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

[RowdyGinger]

37 minutes ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

Why not just make blast procs do radial damage and magnetic have the void damage proc and then give void damage a more meaningful proc?

And whatever happened to lifted status? That could use more tuning, especially targets that fly away instead of being suspended in place.

I absolutely love the idea of blast inflicting radial damage and a lifted status.

[Cryssoberyl]

Did you mean to completely destroy Gas as a damage type? Because you just did. It was already bad against everything except LIGHT (only) Infested, but the Toxin-based status procs at least gave it a niche use. Now it is just completely worthless altogether.

[Masti6]

Side note, why does the Redeemer Prime screen STILL not show what it does on the shots, I mean it shows the heavy attack damage, but not that it does Blast, nor does it reflect the Impact procs from Bullet Dance anywhere, not to mention now with the update the status / pellet status chance, because even at 111%, it seems to be more like 11%, which would make sense since there's 10 pellets being shot, with the new status curve being what it is. Please, at least revert this chance to shotguns, it's horrible, the shotguns are rather weaksauce compared to anything else now, and while you can still apply more than enough corrosive needed to max strip (up to the new 80% cap... just why, and why make it have duration?) with a secondary with a lot of bullets like Mara Detron, which basically isn't a shotgun but acts like one so it wasn't absolutely ripped to shreds, it doesn't make sense absolutely demolishing shotguns like that. #BringBack100%StatusForEachPellet

[Wurmheart]

Exergis is still quite strong, though it just retained it's 36% status chance and I'm not sure if that's intentional or not. (maybe it's high since it only fires 3 pellets?) Just slap on a viral + status set and it kills with ease.

Tigris Prime is also fine, 11.3% status does sound low but it still rips through enemies like butter.

The rest of the shotguns I don't really use much, so can't chime in to much there.

But for what it's worth, Kuva Drakgoon now has a 9% status, Corinth 6%, and Sobek 16.2%. Those don't sound that amazing tbh.

 

 

 

[Masti6]

5 minutes ago, VhwatGoes said:

Gas damage scaling has been completely gutted. 

The previous Toxin Mod multiplier no longer applies, and modding for addition toxin only serves to boost the bias chance to proc.

As a result, faction damage mods only apply once instead of previously three times.

Gas damage now deals a standard 25% damage per tick, and doesn't even pierce shields. This seems to be as a result of gas now dealing proper gas damage over time ticks, instead of toxin as it did previously, but also that elemental mod multipliers not working with any elemental DoTs. Heat, Toxin, Electric, and Gas all currently suffer.

I pray this is not intended, and would urge that the scaling be restored, or even reversing the entire status changes if this is the price. The mod multiplier scaling and the special circumstances that allowed faction damage to greatly benefit DoTs was previously the one edge that status as a whole had over critical-based weapons. After this change, even over 100% status chances, status Dots will never remotely do the same level of damage again.

Seconded.

[Je-note]

So basically Blast does... nothing now? It was amazing CC status, especially usen with sentinels. And now it just.. does nothing. Why?

Fairly weak Gas, Blast nerfed. Fairly strong Viral buffed. Fair enough

[Mephane]

11 minutes ago, RowdyGinger said:

Slash should penetrate shields, but be affected by armor. The effect is a BLEED. Tell me how shields bleed? But if you have thick armor the "cut" won't be as bad.

If you go by logic, how can you even be cut with energy shields still up, when all other physical effects are outright blocked, i.e. the blade or bullet doesn't even touch you.

And from the other perspective, I am personally glad that slash does no longer bypass shields, because this applies to us as well, meaning less enemy damage goes past our shields.

3 minutes ago, Je-note said:

So basically Blast does... nothing now? It was amazing CC status, especially usen with sentinels. And now it just.. does nothing. Why?

Ceterum censeo: swap blast and impact procs and the problem with both is solved.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Mephane

[SmokinDice]

Magnetic and viral seem a bit boring now.

and for viral it is an importnant question, is only the viral damage portion dealing double damage? or everything?

because if it is only viral, it is not only boring but also pretty bad.. if it is everything, than this is way to strong.. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by SmokinDice

[Guest]

Something very dominant on some weapons, is how the impact works.
It eventually, throws targets to the floor.

Kind of like blast, but unintentional in some cases.
It messes up accurate shots in succession (twin kohmak, for example).
As you suddenly lose your targets's head from being a target.

It would be nice, to have them stagger for a longer duration instead,
Rather than flatout falling to the ground.

Maybe a new animation could be added.
Where enemies start being pushed towards falling, but keep themselves barely up.
One hand behind them, finding something to rest against, while attempting to resist the impacts.
This way, you don't lose your intended target; their head.

[Sephryn_]

Tigris Prime seems to be bugged. It went down from 30% status to 11.3%. The normal Tigris even has more than this with 16.8%

[RowdyGinger]

1 minute ago, Mephane said:

If you go by logic, how can you even be cut with energy shields still up, when all other physical effects are outright blocked, i.e. the blade or bullet doesn't even touch you.

The damage from the slash itself doesn't peirce shields anyway, it's the status. The attack (or power, Equinox Maim) is strong enough/sharp enough to inflict a bleed. Maybe it separates the energy shield for an instant, it would be easy to make something up.

 

4 minutes ago, Mephane said:

And from the other perspective, I am personally glad that slash does no longer bypass shields, because this applies to us as well, meaning less enemy damage goes past our shields.

No matter what happens with my suggestion there is one less damage type that pierces shields.

[RowdyGinger]

5 minutes ago, Hannuxis said:

Tigris Prime seems to be bugged. It went down from 30% status to 11.3%. The normal Tigris even has more than this with 16.8%

Tigris has 5 projectiles, Tigris Prime has 8. So clearly the Prime version needed a bigger nerf.

Unbelievable.

Seriously, who thought this was a good idea?

Edit: Sancti Tigris has 6 pellets, so it might be better than both right now.

Edited March 5, 2020 by RowdyGinger

[Masti6]

10 minutes ago, Masti6 said:

Side note, why does the Redeemer Prime screen STILL not show what it does on the shots, I mean it shows the heavy attack damage, but not that it does Blast, nor does it reflect the Impact procs from Bullet Dance anywhere, not to mention now with the update the status / pellet status chance, because even at 111%, it seems to be more like 11%, which would make sense since there's 10 pellets being shot, with the new status curve being what it is. Please, at least revert this chance to shotguns, it's horrible, the shotguns are rather weaksauce compared to anything else now, and while you can still apply more than enough corrosive needed to max strip (up to the new 80% cap... just why, and why make it have duration?) with a secondary with a lot of bullets like Mara Detron, which basically isn't a shotgun but acts like one so it wasn't absolutely ripped to shreds, it doesn't make sense absolutely demolishing shotguns like that. #BringBack100%StatusForEachPellet

Nevermind the Mara Detron comment, while it can do 8/10 corrosive procs with just one shot still, the status / pellet for it is now 46.6% when it used to be, well, past 100% somewhere.

[Wurmheart]

1 minute ago, SmokinDice said:

Magnetic and viral seem extremly boring now.

and for viral it is an importnant question, is only the viral damage portion dealing double damage? or everything?

because if it is only viral, it is not only boring but also pretty bad.. if it is everything, than this is way to strong.. 

pretty sure it's everything, and yes it's op. 

[IgnisDraconis4316]

@[DE]Bear Can there be a Total Status Chance on Shotguns? Cause right now I have to multiply Status/Projectile by Multishot. Like Phantasma shows 37% per projectile and you multiply that by 5.0 Multishot and it comes out to 185% total status chance on the weapon. It would be nice to see that number total below the Per Projectile Breakdown. Because on some of the shotguns the new Total Status is like over 200% but you can't see it.

I use it for modding if a weapon is over 20-25% status chance then I try to focus on it. I mod for the weapons strength. And if the total of a gun is 25% crit chance and 180% status chance then I make it a hybrid build with focus on Status. If that makes sense.

[TheRandomHunter]

Radiation status needs more duration. In my testing if the enemies are staggered or in any sort of animation, they get maybe 5-6 shots in (that's with a machine gun) before the status falls off. Unless you're constantly applying it and not using heat, impact, etc. that might disrupt the enemy, you'll never be able to make use of a max stack of radiation on an enemy.

Thankfully it wouldn't take much more duration, seems to last around 6 seconds, bump up to 8 or so and that might give enough time to work out any animation locks and lay some fire on other enemies.

[VentiGlondi]

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

Abilities that cause blast procs have been significantly hit by the blast proc change.

Things such as Nova's Null Star augment used to be a guaranteed knockdown, which is way stronger than accuracy debuff.

Please consider changing their functionality so that they cause CC again.

[Masti6]

>Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater
Mmmmh yeah nah, I don't think I can believe that.
That would mean when before you reached 100% status chance with the mods it had on, you should now reach at least 300%, no?
If you made the status screen show per pellet chance first, then buffed that 3x of what it was, it still doesn't explain why the weapons no longer go to any of the lengths they could before, when they should be "3x or greater" more powerful statuswise from what that message conveys.
Hell, all this grand speak of "more than 100% status chance has meaning now!" and yet, shotguns barely reach, what, <40% with the mods they could do 100% before?
"Yeah this update totally makes shotguns shine as the status beasts", no, you made them stink like a dog turd you just stepped on. Would be great if the shotguns were indeed the statusmonsters you made them out to be, being able to proc multiple statuses per pellet, but alas that just doesn't seem to be the case. They already did multiple statuses PER SHOT with the old system, which was fine. #MakeShotgunsGreatAgain

Edited March 5, 2020 by Masti6

[Sephryn_]

New impact is horrid, and is basically just a worse blast

[VentiGlondi]

7 minutes ago, Masti6 said:

That would mean when before you reached 100% status chance with the mods it had on, you should now reach at least 300%, no?

No, that's not how it was calculated and that's why 3x status chance was not enough.

Guns with a lot of pellets had very small per-pellet status chance, and even when you triple that, it's still tiny.

12 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

Like Phantasma shows 37% per projectile and you multiply that by 5.0 Multishot and it comes out to 185% total status chance on the weapon

It doesn't though?

37% means of all of your shots 37% will proc. If you shoot 1 projectiles 3 times, one of them should proc. If you shoot 3 projectiles once, also one of them should proc. On average.

It doesn't magically add up to 111%

Edited March 5, 2020 by VentiGlondi

[Masti6]

5 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

it's still tiny.

Which makes no sense when they go about this grand "yay >100status btw" but leave shotguns / multishot weapons completely gimped being able to reach only a 3rd of their old power, like, what gives?

[HPetch]

By my assessment the status effect changes look mostly solid, however the new effects for Corrosive and Gas look problematic. For Corrosive, the issue I see is that due to the changes to enemy Armor and how Viral effects work means it doesn't really have a use now - Viral will outperform it in most situations due to the bonus damage easily outpacing the benefit of reduced enemy Armor, particularly now that Armor can't scale as high and Corrosive can't remove it entirely (unless it stacks with other Armor-removal effects in a way that isn't immediately obvious). I don't have a specific suggestion on how to address this at the moment, but my gut feeling is that buffing Corrosive would be a better choice than nerfing Viral - increasing the duration, perhaps, or making it scale up faster? Hard to say at this point.

As for Gas, by changing the damage type the effect deals from Toxin to Gas you've effectively rendered it worthless, as Gas damage does not bypass Shields or Armor and most enemies are resistant to it - strictly speaking many Infested are vulnerable to it, but by the time Status becomes relevant to your build Toxic Ancients and their 80% Gas damage reduction aura are so common that the benefit is completely negated. Obviously the previous situation of Gas just being a better Toxin for high-Status weapons is less than ideal (and arguably even worse than the current design, balance-wise), but as it stands it's basically a trap element that seems good at first glance but is actually nearly useless. The solution I think is best would be to have the proc still deal Toxin damage (either as a ticking AoE like the current implementation or as a DoT like the old version) but at a much shorter duration than a proper Toxin proc, such that Toxin is better for bypassing Shields on Crit-focused weapons or single-target damage on Status weapons but Gas is better against groups. Alternatively you could just remove the Gas resistance from the Toxic Ancient's aura, allowing the new Gas to neatly slide into a more anti-Infested role, which now that I type it out might actually be the better solution.

Also, I feel it's worth noting that (to the best of my knowledge) Crit was never "king" because it was better - in most cases it was actually worse, unless the weapon could effectively make use of Hunter Munitions - but because more and more late-game enemies (most notably Eidolons and similar bosses) have been completely immune to Status, making Crit builds mandatory for any associated content. I'm aware that you did mention that issue as part of your reasoning for these changes, and I'm glad you're moving in the direction of balancing that out, I just wanted to be sure you're working in the correct context for stuff like this. Good luck with getting all the issues sorted out!

[Neomonk21]

I don't know if this is the right section to post this or not.  I was doing a Kuva Lich mission and came across what I thought was an Elite Shield Lancer (it looked like a Shield Lancer but definitely said Elite and had a yellow shield, not the typical riot shield).  I think this mob kept knocking me down.  I don't know if it was from repeated Impact procs or what but I was basically stun locked from knockdowns.  It was not a fun experience.

[OoZE_23147]

Impact knocking down enemies is just a terrible idea especially since impact is one of the better options going against shielded enemies. Why have something that requires good aim for the head to bypass shield gating, but have a damage type knockdown enemies rendering it almost impossible to get headshots. With old blast you could opt-in to knocking down enemies with this new change there is no way to remove impact from weapons and most weapons have a form of impact. Now every weapon knocks down enemies and there is no way of avoiding it. 
Please make impact stagger only. These knockdowns are terrible. 
Swapping impact and blast would seem like the easiest fix. You could opt-in to knockdowns with blast and impact would just give accuracy reduction benefiting most weapons.

Edited March 5, 2020 by OoZE_23147

[StormSaber1]

Reposting some of my thoughts from the workshop thread regarding new status effects.

Corrosive: As of the current changes to it, Heat seems to be the superior option, as Heat strips 50% armor compared to Corrosive's 26% (up to 80%). Sure Heat has a 2 second ramp up before it reaches 50%, but you only need 1 proc for that, and it will still continue to be 50% as long as a single Heat proc is present, and considering they last 6 seconds, it's not that hard to achieve. Meanwhile with corrosive, to reach 50%, you need to apply and keep 5 separate procs, which have their own duration. So even if corrosive lasts 8 seconds, you will still start losing stacks, if you are not applying new procs fast enough, even before reaching 50%, much less 80%, which needs 10 stacks active. Also remember that Heat has a damage and cc component to it too.

Puncture: The current effect is still way too useless and boring, so instead of applying the weakness debuff, what about giving the individual projectile/bullet, that triggers the status, a 2m (or a different value) punch through? As for stacking in the rare case one projectile/bullet procs 2 or more puncture statuses at the same time, just add another 2m to it.

Cold: It still looks really useless, even with status stacking. Honestly I think there should be no diminishing returns in subsequent procs and the cap should be increased to 100% for a complete freeze. You'd still have to maintain 4 different cold stacks (with their own duration) at the same time to keep the enemy frozen. And in the case it would become really overpowered (like the entire party running high fire rate cold weapons with high status chance), just add a diminishing return to the freeze itself (for example if target is frozen for a total of 6 seconds, give it an immunity for some time).

All statuses: I quite don't understand why the new statuses have diminishing returns on subsequent procs. Slash, Heat, Toxin and now Electricity don't have any diminishing returns, they just apply the same effect again over the previous procs, so why put them on others? I could kinda understand putting them on stuff like Viral, but why Cold, which is already pretty meh, or Radiation? Also why all those arbitrary caps? I don't see any reason to cap Radiation for example.