Jump to content
[DE]Bear

Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

The Astilla never did self damage so why add the new blast flinch / knockback mechanic to it?  It just ruined the gun somewhat.  But what made it WORSE was reducing it status chance from 55.1% DOWN TO 33%!  WHAT THE HELL?!  That thing was DECENT against lower level enemies before! NOW I NEED a mod to make it just SLIGHTLY better than before?!  40-45% status chance is where it SHOULD be.  THEN it'll be worth it to me.  Even then, the knockback when in the blast radius mechanic should be removed from it.  Also, if the Tenno is within the 25% damage radius of the blast radius flinch / stagger / knockback mechanic, they shouldn't have that affect them.  Honestly. 

 

Astilla:

Boost status chance up to 40-45%

Remove the Blast Flinch Mechanic ( Never did damage to you before, so WHY add it?! )

As it's practically USELESS now!  I used to love bucking around with that gun, worked GREAT on lower level enemies, but since you nerfed slash, that already made it weaker by a large margin, now it's practically just grind fodder!  I mean COME ON!  Buff it's damage if you're gonna nerf it THAT badly!  It only fires a SINGLE shot with 16 rounds!  A 33% Status chance for that?  Ain't jack!  Really!  Maybe it's because I don't want to have to use ONLY dual stat mods to actually make it able to inflict status effects.  But come on!

Also, have it so the blast flinch mechanic should only take affect within the 25% damage range of the AOE on weapons like the ANGSTRUM or TONKOR or PENTA and such!  As for THOSE it makes sense!  But a GLASS SLUG that shatters on impact as an AOE?  That wouldn't damn well do that!  It wouldn't cause you to FLINCH or STAGGER or get blasted back!  FFS!  

 

Sorry, but I kinda had to say all that.

Please, just, please, change it to at least HALF of what I suggested.  I could live with the status chance, but at the very least remove the new Blast mechanic from it's AOE....  as that really messes it up when trying to use it in CQC for survival missions and such.  Makes other shotguns flat out superior.

 

Edited by Meylin_Libertas_Messor
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Doublepost - please delete

Edited by thurmack
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since shotgun status changes are inconsistent (e.g. Exergis didn't change at all), can we please have a list of the weapon changes akin to the arcane change list?

 

Additionally, can you clarify if Gas aoe DOT is still scaled with toxin mods, and if viral and magnetic procs add damage to the initial hit, or just to subsequent hits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Meylin_Libertas_Messor said:

The Astilla never did self damage so why add the new blast flinch / knockback mechanic to it?  It just ruined the gun somewhat.  But what made it WORSE was reducing it status chance from 55.1% DOWN TO 33%!  WHAT THE HELL?!  That thing was DECENT against lower level enemies before! NOW I NEED a mod to make it just SLIGHTLY better than before?!  40-45% status chance is where it SHOULD be.  THEN it'll be worth it to me.  Even then, the knockback when in the blast radius mechanic should be removed from it.  Also, if the Tenno is within the 25% damage radius of the blast radius flinch / stagger / knockback mechanic, they shouldn't have that affect them.  Honestly. 

 

Astilla:

Boost status chance up to 40-45%

Remove the Blast Flinch Mechanic ( Never did damage to you before, so WHY add it?! )

As it's practically USELESS now!  I used to love bucking around with that gun, worked GREAT on lower level enemies, but since you nerfed slash, that already made it weaker by a large margin, now it's practically just grind fodder!  I mean COME ON!  Buff it's damage if you're gonna nerf it THAT badly!  It only fires a SINGLE shot with 16 rounds!  A 33% Status chance for that?  Ain't jack!  Really!  Maybe it's because I don't want to have to use ONLY dual stat mods to actually make it able to inflict status effects.  But come on!

Also, have it so the blast flinch mechanic should only take affect within the 25% damage range of the AOE on weapons like the ANGSTRUM or TONKOR or PENTA and such!  As for THOSE it makes sense!  But a GLASS SLUG that shatters on impact as an AOE?  That wouldn't damn well do that!  It wouldn't cause you to FLINCH or STAGGER or get blasted back!  FFS!  

 

Sorry, but I kinda had to say all that.

Please, just, please, change it to at least HALF of what I suggested.  I could live with the status chance, but at the very least remove the new Blast mechanic from it's AOE....  as that really messes it up when trying to use it in CQC for survival missions and such.  Makes other shotguns flat out superior.

 

Astilla didn't have it's status chance changed, as it is a slug-based weapon to begin with. The only thing that changed for it was the UI CORRECTLY showing the per shot status chance, as opposed to this weird (and incorrect) "average" status chance when multishot was applied. It sounds to me like your astilla had multishot, and thus incorrectly showed 55.1% status chance before the patch, but was actualy doing 33%. All that changes for the astilla is that it now displays the correct status chance.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, thurmack said:

Since shotgun status changes are inconsistent (e.g. Exergis didn't change at all), can we please have a list of the weapon changes akin to the arcane change list?

 

Additionally, can you clarify if Gas aoe DOT is still scaled with toxin mods, and if viral and magnetic procs add damage to the initial hit, or just to subsequent hits?

Gas aoe now does gas damage, not toxin damage. Toxin mods will increase it slightly in that it increases the overall gas damage, but it does not interact the same way it used it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Recommendation: switch the Impact and Blast status effects entirely. They make little sense in their current configuration, but they make a bucketload of sense if switched around. 

Nvm, learned they gave Impact KNOCKDOWN. That’s literally just as bad as ragdoll. WTF DE

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, KommandantViy said:

Astilla didn't have it's status chance changed, as it is a slug-based weapon to begin with. The only thing that changed for it was the UI CORRECTLY showing the per shot status chance, as opposed to this weird (and incorrect) "average" status chance when multishot was applied. It sounds to me like your astilla had multishot, and thus incorrectly showed 55.1% status chance before the patch, but was actualy doing 33%. All that changes for the astilla is that it now displays the correct status chance.

Wait a minute, so what you're saying is, is that... Oh, now I get it.  So if it had Multishot.  Then... but the thing is.  It always showed a 55.1% status.  I had multishot OFF of it and it still just showed 55.1%.  Maybe it was multishot, actually.  So basically a 33% chance per slug.  That's... a lot better than I thought, honestly.  If that's the case, I'm sorry.  If not, well, yeah.  But do you agree that the blast thing should be removed from it?  Because it's a GLASS SLUG that shatters.  It doesn't EXPLODE with any sort of real blast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Meylin_Libertas_Messor said:

Wait a minute, so what you're saying is, is that... Oh, now I get it.  So if it had Multishot.  Then... but the thing is.  It always showed a 55.1% status.  I had multishot OFF of it and it still just showed 55.1%.  Maybe it was multishot, actually.  So basically a 33% chance per slug.  That's... a lot better than I thought, honestly.  If that's the case, I'm sorry.  If not, well, yeah.  But do you agree that the blast thing should be removed from it?  Because it's a GLASS SLUG that shatters.  It doesn't EXPLODE with any sort of real blast.

I think self stagger in general has been very poorly received and should not have been applied to ANY weapon that lacked self-damage before this patch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Recommendation: switch the Impact and Blast status effects entirely. They make little sense in their current configuration, but they make a bucketload of sense if switched around. 

Please.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to express my appreciation for the willingness to disrupt your own game seven years in.  Even if my pet issues don't get address or I don't agree with all the ones that were, it's still refreshing to see change.

Anyway, I spent a little time in the simulacrum with my usual builds and I will definitely be switching all my corrosive to viral.  Against high-level Grineer it's not even a contest.

 

On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Blast

Grants the Blast Status Effect a single target. Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% inaccuracy for  for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration.

The change to Blast makes me sad.  I will miss knocking down entire room with a blast proc very much, and decreased accuracy is not a satisfying replacement.  I guess it's moot anyway because all my Corrosive + Blast builds are now Viral + Radiation.

 

On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

In addition, we’ve removed 0.25x Multiplier for Elemental Status Effects, meaning all Elemental Status Effects are 4x more likely.

All other things being equal, this is a big nerf to slash-based weapons of all types.  Your only real options are Hunter Munitions or a melee combo with guaranteed slash procs.  Trying to get slash procs through regular status chance is massively hampered unless you remove all elemental mods, which in turn decreases the damage of slash procs.  Maybe Baro needs to bring us some primed IPS mods?

That being said, my Caustacyst with Reaping Spiral has gone from "pretty good" to "almost literal hot knife through butter".

 

On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Our long-term goal with this change is to build upon this series of changes to eventually allow Status to impact bigger threats like Liches and Eidolons.

Does this include reducing the Sentient faction as a whole's complete immunity to status?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VentiGlondi said:

No, that's not how it was calculated and that's why 3x status chance was not enough.

Guns with a lot of pellets had very small per-pellet status chance, and even when you triple that, it's still tiny.

It doesn't though?

37% means of all of your shots 37% will proc. If you shoot 1 projectiles 3 times, one of them should proc. If you shoot 3 projectiles once, also one of them should proc. On average.

It doesn't magically add up to 111%

Still using how it was supposed to go even at 100% if it was split between 3 projectiles it should only be around 33% for each bullet to proc. On my Tigris I have tested on a 165 bombard and it procced so much status that he was dead in 1 1/2 shot. Which before it took forever. 

Like at one time I got 8 procs from the Tigris Prime. Here is my stats and pictures of proof. So I agree it doesn't seem to have 300% status chance but it procs like crazy. Unless I got real lucky and they all proceed at the same time?

MqhsdT0.jpg

NCUcdn8.jpg

lxqIxgc.jpg

Edited by IgnisDraconis4316
Add a sentence

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@VentiGlondi So 16 bullets only 4 bullets procced. So if you follow the idea that 300% status means that 4 stats should procc a shot....... with shotguns did it force 4 procs?

 

dMz6cUo.jpg

 

9xf46t0.jpg

Edited by IgnisDraconis4316
added pic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, stagger and falloff aggravation aside, how am I supposed to mod, say, my Kuva Ogris now?

A 100% Status Gas build worked pretty nicely before, against any Faction.
Now, you don't get anything that ignores Shields, the Slash weighting is super low so Armor is also an issue
(plus Gas' Toxin DOTs were at least ~decent against Ferrite Armor but nah, now it's just Gas which Grineer resist 50%, urgh).
Hek, you don't even have the for once welcome Blast knockdown anymore, which helped Nightwatch Napalm and other DOTs do their thing.

Guess I could ... mod it for Viral? Eh, that doesn't really help against Corpus Shield gating,
and to get the most out of that proc you'd want a rapid-fire weapon, rather than something that should one-shot stuff.
Which it now does quite a bit less often.

Guess it's just gonna be rapid-fire Viral Status (or HunMun) setups for Grineer, and Toxin Crit for Corpus now?
Seems like a strong hit to build diversity and weapon options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something partially relevant: the Sobek's syndicate mod no longer adds a flat 20 status chance, and instead grants 20% of it's base, akin to other status chance mods.

 

Seeing as how Shotgun Savvy (and all other base status chance mods) was buffed to relevancy to 90%, I can't imagine that rendering the Sobek's syndicate mod less useful than pre-mainline Shotgun Savvy is intentional.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I know all shotguns got their base status buffed 3x, but other innate multishot weapons were not buffed with the changes.

1. Twin Grakatas didn't get a status buff despite it's base status being split between the 2 guns (Arsenal Status before was 11%)

Spoiler

8VjQYx4.png

 

2. Ballistica Prime didn't get a Status buff either, despite having shotgun mechanics, and for an MR14 weapon it's Status is lower than the Rakta Ballistica 

Spoiler

Pk4CsiO.png

 

3. Fusilai's Secondary Fire, did not get a Status bump despite all pellet shotguns having a Status buff. It now leaves the Secondary Fire as the worst part of the weapon, as the Primary Fire has substantially more crit and status stats.

Spoiler

dOwBseA.png

 

4. Zarr's Barrage Mode, same as the Fusilai's issue, but more prevalent since self damage is gone now.

Spoiler

J1dOOzN.png

 

5. Cernos Prime's Status was unchanged, despite being a ""shotgun"" bow.

Spoiler

1BjTYHI.png

 

Follow up: Euphona Prime's Secondary Fire actually got the Status Chance buff, but what about all these weapons?

Hopefully, these weapons could receive a Status buff like the pellet-based shotguns. This is so that they would remain consistent in terms of Status output with the other shotguns.

Edited by 4holes
added a follow-up as Euphona Prime's Buckshot got buffed.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

On my Tigris I have tested on a 165 bombard and it procced so much status that he was dead in 1 1/2 shot. Which before it took forever.

That's probably entirety from enemies having lower armor and the new viral status. Before you would get 17.6 procs with hell's chamber and 100% status.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gas is completely worthless as a status effect now, and Impact is now even more obviously the worst damage type in the game. Could've sworn Reb said that knockdown wasn't going to be added to Impact, but I guess not. Impact was hated because it knocks enemies out of your line of fire. Now instead of adjusting your aim to the left or right and being slightly annoyed, it just completely drops them out of your line of fire, and headshotting a prone enemy consistently is an exercise in futility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

After some playtesting here are my complaints:

1. Slash is now useless against high level Corpus. It chips out the shields, but at high level there are plenty of Shield Drones that will replenish it instantly, making Slash procs deal no damage in the long run.

2. Impact proc stacking causing a knock-down is a pain. On one hand you want to encourage skill and headshots, on the other you punish by removing enemies from line of fire.

I propose a change to Impact stacking. Instead of knock-down, enemy gets disarmed. If the enemy is already disarmed, or doesn't have a weapon, then Stun for 3 seconds.

3. Double-stacking with over 100% status never gives 2 same status effects at once. Meaning if your weapon does 99% Slash and 1% Impact, double-proc shot will give you Slash and Impact, always.

4. Gas... well, now it's useless, since it makes Gas clouds instead of Toxin clouds. A powerful weapon against Corpus is gone, since Gas damage is bad against Flesh and doesn't affect health directly.

5. Change to Corrosive proc and Corrosive Projection will mean, that for really high levels Slash/Viral meta is gonna be king again.

Edited by PY-R0
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Impact vs. Blast

Impact now does increasingly effective stagger and eventually knockdown. Blast does no CC and feels almost worthless.

At the least please remove the knockdown from Impact and apply it to Blast. Impact is far more common than Blast as a physical damage type. This means an awful lot of weapons that used to be good for headshots or precise location aiming no longer necessarily are.

Preferably completely swap the effects. They make far more sense reversed; that way all the physical status effects will be stacking, which is appropriate considering how many weapons have them by default, and all CC abilities will be elemental, which is appropriate considering they generally have to be added and/or have to share with multiple physical types.

i.e. 

Blast: AoE stagger that stacks up until it causes knockdown. Same code as used for current Impact.

Impact: Single-target stacking accuracy debuff. Same code as used for current Blast.

Note that this would probably mean that weapons that deal guaranteed Impact procs would change to deal guaranteed Blast procs.

 

Edited by rstripn
wording change because of a patch note i missed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Thural said:

Well this was a blatant lie.  How does increasing my kuva brakk's status chance by 3x result in its status chance being less than a third of what it was before

It's not a blatant lie, you just didn't read the patch notes.

The arsenal is now displaying your per-pellet status chance. It used to display your per SHOT status chance (meaning across 10 pellets you had a 37% chance to proc a status). If the same UI was in place prior to this patch it would have read 3.7% status chance.

Disclaimer: I'm a console pleb, so I'm unable to test anything. YMMV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Meylin_Libertas_Messor said:

The Astilla never did self damage so why add the new blast flinch / knockback mechanic to it?  It just ruined the gun somewhat.  But what made it WORSE was reducing it status chance from 55.1% DOWN TO 33%!  WHAT THE HELL?! 

The Astilla always had 33% status chance. The UI isn't reflecting "fake" status from multishot anymore.

If you're gonna take to a feedback thread and make an entire page in bright red text, you could at least check your math first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gas The base duration of a Gas Status Effect now matches Slash for 6 seconds. No longer does AoE with forced Poison Status Effect (resulting in Poison DoT for enemies in radius), instead it does AoE DoT Gas damage around the target.

So this is...very inadequate damage.

Gas straight up has a 50% damage loss on Grineer cloned flesh, so now instead of dealing toxin damage that had a bit of effectiveness vs armor, this damage tickles them.

Against Corpus, the Gas damage does not ignore shields. It's also weak against flesh once it's past shields.

As for Infested...

The Toxic Ancient's aura gives itself and all nearby enemies Toxin damage. In addition, the aura provides 100% damage reduction to Toxin and 80% damage reduction to Gas

Gas might as well not be a damage type for anything but counting as an existing status effect with Condition Overload at the moment. >,>

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, rstripn said:

Impact is far more common than Blast and as a physical damage type it has 4x the chance of proccing.

They changed that. All status effects have an equal chance to proc now. Check patch notes:

 

Quote

In addition, we’ve removed 0.25x Multiplier for Elemental Status Effects, meaning all Elemental Status Effects are 4x more likely.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For now a small feedback on Stacking Status Procs:

The UI shows the status procs on enemy quite 'wildly'. Especially with procs that can go from 1 to 10 in stacks and a refreshing etc a lot. It is REALLY hard to read what's happening under the Enemy HP bar. There is just SO much happening in so small time span.

I'd suggest at least place the stack numbers on top of below the Proc Icon to make it visually more clear and easy to read at a glance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...