Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

[Rogunz]

These changes do nothing but reinforce the crit/hybrid/melee meta while nerfing already niche status weapons and destroying status shotguns. AoE status weapons are getting extra screwed because the damage falloff applies to status effects and gas is worthless.

Melee weapons are already ridiculously overpowered and are the only weapon type that is going to meaningfully benefit from being able to go over 100% status since weeping wounds lets them do it with a single mod slot.

 

Status procs

Slash now procs signifigantly more often by crit weapons with hunters munitions than status ones.

Impact is absolute garbage and actively detrimental to any weapon that procs it. Enemies staggering all over the place just makes them much more difficult to kill and it's the one reason I am happy about physical procs happening less often.

Puncture is still pretty irrelevant, anything that you're worried about damage from is usually also status immune.

Cold took a huge nerf since it now takes 6 procs to do what 1 proc did before. It doesn't matter much though because no one is going to use cold when viral exists.

Toxin Took a straight nerf from 8-6 seconds since it could already stack but is still strong. Doesn't matter much since you are going to use it make viral. Even vs tightly packed groups toxin alone is now significantly better than if you combined it with heat for gas.

Electric got some extra AoEs but heat still feels like the better 3rd damage type

Blast also really doesn't matter much since it's changing enemy damage. It should absolutely be swapped with impact if the stagger has to stay so you can avoid staggers on most weapons that need precision.

Corrosive is a worse viral but not overstripping is a nice side effect of the nerf

Radiation is basically the same but enemies actually hurting each other a bit is a nice side effect.

Magnetic is still worthless, shields aren't a problem.

Viral is the new king of status effects. Benefits hybrid weapons way more than status ones since they get their crits multiplied.

Gas is the one thing that status weapons really had going for them and it's now completely worthless. It's an awful damage type vs every faction and the only use case is killing trash infested when a toxic ancient isn't around. It needs to be reverted to how it used to work since like toxin it's just taking straight nerfs and it's the only thing that status weapons really had.

 

Weapons

Previously 100% status shotguns took huge nerfs unless they had 3 or less pellets. Status shotguns that were unable to hit 100% status previously are still bad at it and not worth building for. Pure crit shotguns took small buffs since they are a bit more likely to proc status.

Why you are insisting on keeping the shotgun formula that makes them garbage? It especially ruins shotguns that have large amounts of pellets since they get to proc weak status effects at the same rate as something with the same base status and only a few pellets procs strong ones.

Automatic weapons get their listed status chance per pellet and fire similar amounts with the only difference being that they sequentially instead of in bursts. They are now significantly better at proccing status than shotguns are without any of the downsides shotguns have.

 

The Ferrox is my favorite weapon and it was absolutely ruined. Gas+electric+bane mods let it have a nice niche with it's alt fire but now it does even less damage than it used to vs high level enemies despite the huge armor reductions. It isn't even decent vs mid level enemies anymore since it does so little damage that it takes the entire duration in perfect conditions to kill anything that isn't a grunt. In normal game conditions you might get 2/3rds of their health if you are lucky.

 

I really don't get what your intent was. Very few weapons are going to be able to proc more than 1 time per bullet and it's not worth building status to try and break that 100% cap when you can multiply your status chance with a fire rate mod instead. Status shotguns were thrown in the trash and now get to do way less significantly weaker status procs than they used to do. The only thing that gains a significant amount of power are already overpowered melee weapons who get 3+ procs a swing and multihit which makes CO even better.

Like the self damage and AoE changes I would much rather have the old system where my niche weapons weren't thrown in the garbage because a couple weapons might overperform. If you need to nerf something nerf that weapon instead of destroying an entire class of weapons to put them back in line.

[houselyrander]

On 2020-03-02 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Bear said:

 

Radiation	The first Radiation Status Effect has an enemy deal 100% Damage to allies. Subsequent Radiation Status adds +50% damage, leading to up to 550% (capped). Each Radiation Status Effect has a duration of 12 seconds.

I'd say this means Oberon killed Nyx, but that would imply Nyx wasn't already dead

[TANTO_17]

I like most of these changes. Still need to do more testing. I am sad that impact and puncture damage are still irrelevant for actually killing things. Impact and puncture affect most gun stats. Given that these two statuses are not changing slash meta will still be king ....this is disappointing. 

[EnderDDT]

This is literally a nerf to every status type other than Impact, and Viral (Heat was changed recently, so not counting it either way). Why? Status was already less useful and giving it a theoretical upper limit that requires a dozen bullets to pull off reliably only makes things worse. But seriously, lets look at what actually happened.

Slash	Each Slash Status has its own duration, this means that you can't build up procs to extend and worsen the condition like you could before to take down stupidly difficult enemies (the ones that wern't outright immune to status procs, at least). Also it hits shields.
Impact	Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status, so now a mostly underwhelming proc is slightly better.
Puncture	The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage. Puncture used to be something lie a 70% damage reduction starting off. The new version caps out at 75% after 10 hits.
Cold	The first Cold Status Effect deals 25% slow. Cold used to be 50% base, and this requires 6 procs to equil it and only goes up to 70 total.
Heat	No Change... because it was just changed recently. I won't call this out as a nerf, but I won't give credit either.
Toxin	See Slash, plus the base duration of a Toxin Status Effect now matches Slash for 6 seconds. They say that it doesn't ignore armor anymore but the main issue is that the duration is reduced and so the overall damage is as well, and that is before we look at how it stacks.
Electric	AoE Electric Damage that is part of the Status Effect can now reoccur while the target is still under the stun animation of another Electric Status Effect. Great, but that is a bug fix, not a feture. The fact that it doesn't shock nearby enemies, however, is a nerf. This is especially true since the duration was already high enough that the proced enemy would likely be dead before it wore off. The only reason it wasn't used more was because electric was a component in corrosive and blast/fire had longer CC, but now that Corrosive/blast of those have been ruined... it is still worse than fire...
Blast	Blast no longer gives a knockdown, nor an AoE knockdown. No ammount of "inaccuracy" is a substitute for hard CC, and this is doubly true when it was in a very minor AoE.
Corrosive	Corrosive stacks faster but has a limit, but this change only is helpful depending on how the armor changes actually work... which we haven't been told yet. With how things have been, though, a flat 80% reduction won't fix the literal millions of effective health on high level heavy targets into something manageable. The time limit means that any CC an enemy has can ruin even that. Corrosive is now no-longer an answer to the insane armor scaling of high level enemies, which was it's main purpose before this change.
Radiation	This literally has no effect against even moderately high level opponents due to the difference between enemy damage vs enemy health. In other news, radiated tenno can now destroy objectives!
Magnetic	So the anti shield status that was never used no longer immediately drains 75% of current and maximum shields, instead just giving an increase in damage. No spike damage is bad, it takes what used to be a 2 shots to get rid of shields (with a proc) to something much slower. Much slower if you are using somethnig like a machine gun (which you kinda have to be with the current changes and with how few weapons can get far enough above 100% status to matter). The big problem that everyone had with magnetic, how it shuts down your warframe abilities by draining your energy (and yet somehow has no similar effect on enemies) has not been touched. The lack of recharge is meaningless, since enemies already couldn't recharge shields when they had been damaged recently. Please tell me this hasn't been changed...
Viral	This one is actually better. The 100% extra damage is roughly equivelent to the 50% reduction that enemies used to get, and the lack of spike damage on them is balanced out by the fact that it scales upward from there rather than having to scale back up to where the old numbers had been.
Gas	This is how you take one of the best procs in the game and make it one of the worst, though admittedly it was good due to a weird interaction that was likely to need fixing eventually. How it used to work was that the first target got the gas proc and then started "infecting" themselves and everyone around them with a toxic proc. This toxic proc ignored shields and meant that one proc delt multiple types of damage (gas and toxin) and so had a much higher chance of hitting a weakness.

Really? This actively makes status worse, and getting multiple procs on a single hit, very rarely, does not make up for the fact that you have to proc 5-6 times on average to get to the same point things were at before. DE, please hire some theory-crafters to spot-check this stuff before it hits live. PLEASE!!!

[aquapollo]

even with the significant changes to armor scaling all of my status shotguns feel quite a bit weaker now still need to do some more thorough testing, but first impressions of my shotguns is not good.

[LitteralGarbage]

On 2020-03-02 at 10:00 AM, [DE]Bear said:

Impact	Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status (removed previous change of adding Ragdoll as maximum Stagger consequence).

When you get 8 impacts you get a knockdown making it extremely difficult to land headshots with weapons like the Astilla, a weapon which has projectiles which cause guaranteed impact procs. Combined with multishot and youve got an issue where going for headshots or body shots immediately puts the target on the floor, Making weakpoints in most occasions much more difficult to hit.

[EnderDDT]

Fixing shotguns, from where they were before, is easy. Take out the status chance being divided between each pellet/bullet and just have the flat number applied to each pellet/bullet. The tradeoff between shotguns and machine guns is burst damage vs sustained. The massive damage of shotguns came at the cost of a low fire rate, high reload time, and low clip size. This meant that every shot needed to count and weak enemies would take one shot just the same as a lot of heavier enemies; while machine guns could mow across a group and, if two individual bullets killed an enemy than you continued to kill without being slowed. Think of it like frontloading the damage with sizable downtimes between being dangerous, because that is exactly what it was.

Dividing the status chance between each individual pellet/bullet only makes sense when you aren't looking at the number of procs over time. If you are than that machine gun that puts out 30 rounds per second and that shotgun that fires a 30 pellet shot every second are exactly the same. What we have now is the risk of frontloading the shotguns damage before having to wait for the next shot without the potential reward of all the procs happening at once.

Please fix this.

[GKP_light]

Impact is still bad.

Puncture is still useless.

Magnetic is still useless.

Blast is now useless instead of bad.

 

[nslay]

 I think the net changes to shotguns, status and armor result in shotguns being considerably powerful! Good job DE!

Here's my first ever Youtube video (and hopefully last!) comparing the formidable Kuva Chakkhurr to hybrid Vaykor Hek and hybrid Kuva Kohm against a level 140 Exo Gokstad Officer (probably the highest armored enemy in the game... this is the benchmark enemy now).

Spoiler

 

Before RRR, that same Kuva Kohm build would have had to burn through almost all 836 or so rounds to down a level 140 Gokstad Officer. There would be no way to down a Gokstad Officer with one magazine like that! And there would be definitely no way to down the Gokstad Officer with Vaykor Hek like that!

So good job DE. I really wondered if shotguns were ruined. Hybrid shotguns with decent crit and status (like Vaykor Hek) seem likely to be most potent. But I bet Tigris Prime will be junk now (still have to have to rank it!).

EDIT: Yeah, I just tried my hybrid Strun Wraith with and without a Riven (Riven gives Crit, punch through, fire rate, -Impact) and it can't down a level 140 Gokstad Officer like the Vaykor Hek or Kuva Kohm. After quite a few magazines, I gave up!

Edited March 6, 2020 by nslay

[WeeMadHamish]

Phage and Phantasma are not applying the expected number of statuses. (yes, this is old behavior, but might as well bring it back up)

Phage very clearly gets extra tendrils when multishot mods are added, and I cannot tell w/ Phantasma. Either way, they are applying one chance of proc regardless of how many beams are hitting a given target, and it feels like it's whatever the modded % per beam is, not trying beams until one triggers. A 34% feels like about one third chance of one status per fire rate tick.

Using a Saryn and her forced toxin procs on hit, using either of those very definitely show proc numbers rising one per fire rate tick. In comparison a Strun wraith modded for a similar number of pellets will proc a toxin for every pellet on every trigger pull.

Edited March 6, 2020 by WeeMadHamish

[shut]

DE, what the HELL did you do to the Phantasma?!?

7.4% Status Chance?
7.4% Status Chance????

 

This weapon originally had 37% Status Chance on its 5-tendril beam. Unmodded, this amounts to about 8.83% SC per tendril under the old system. Triple this amount, as promised in the dev workshop and the patch notes, is 26.4% Status Chance per tendril.

 

But the Phantasma did not get 26.4% SC per tendril.
It didn't even get 8.83% SC per tendril, which would've been the worst-case-scenario if you literally forgot to triple the status chance.
It got 7.4% SC per tendril.
7.4% SC per tendril.

7.4% SC per tendril.

 

I'm miffed.

[Lakyus]

Okay. I wasted my day testing stuff in the simulacrum, discussing with other people and actually playing. I think I can give a proper feedback for each damage type and their status procs.

• Slash: As strong as it was. Feels stronger because of how Viral works.
• Impact: Better now, but niche. Why do CC when you can do damage? Raw damage is worthless still.
• Puncture: Raw damage is fine, but proc is pointless. No need to reduce damage from a single enemy if you are killing it. May be worth for Rhino's Roar with augment, but that's it.
• Cold: Better now, but niche. Why do CC when you can do damage? Buffed Frost a little and that's it. Raw damage is OK.
• Heat: Pretty much meta now that Corrosive was nerfed. Easy to put in any build since only one mod is needed. Combos with Viral.
• Toxin: You take this if you want to kill Corpus people. That's it. Besides it, it's worthless. Corpus machines won't take much damage from it.
• Electric: It's ok.
• Blast: Did you remove the knockdown? It should come back. Raw damage is neutral, so it's fine.
• Corrosive: It's fine, but it has been outclassed by Heat and Viral.
• Radiation: Good raw damage, situational proc. It's only good if you shoot and get out of other enemies line of sights. Oberon still is the only instance where this proc is really strong.
• Magnetic: Better than before, but still niche. Corpus shields are easy to strip with damage, especially with Viral. Raw damage is still meh. Proc should do something else like pulling enemies together or jamming their weapons.
• Viral: THE KING. Nothing beats viral right now. The faster you stack it, the better you make. Neutral damage makes it work with pretty much anything. Armored enemies still have Health, meaning that Viral is effective against them. Should do something else or be nerfed hard.
• Gas: Neutral damage, but status is worse than Slash, Heat and Toxin procs, even if it's AoE. Either needs the initial damage to be buffed or the DoT to hit harder.

[Zalanore]

5 hours ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

Still using how it was supposed to go even at 100% if it was split between 3 projectiles it should only be around 33% for each bullet to proc. On my Tigris I have tested on a 165 bombard and it procced so much status that he was dead in 1 1/2 shot. Which before it took forever. 

Like at one time I got 8 procs from the Tigris Prime. Here is my stats and pictures of proof. So I agree it doesn't seem to have 300% status chance but it procs like crazy. Unless I got real lucky and they all proceed at the same time?

He didn't die from "so much status" he died because all Grineer have no armor. Take off your status chance and he'll still die just as quickly. The Grineer are aparently made of paper mache now. The tigris has FEWER procs that it did before, not more. (And yes, I am taking into account that they combined the slash procs into 1 number).

[Kaylightning]

The change in gas was totally unnecessary, the gas elemental needed very specific things to be usable, with this modification, the gas elemental is useless in the game .. Rethink about going back to the standard toxin that we always had.

[Sickle_Slayer]

Phantasma:

Heeeeyyyy so it seems that the Phantasma did Not receive a status buff like all the rest of the other shotguns.

It currently has a base 7.4% status chance/p with 5 pellets, whereas the Phage has 15.5% with 7 pellets. (It used to have 37% status, and 37/5= 7.4, so I think the weapons status buff was forgotten)

Last I checked, the Phantasma had a higher status than the Phage. Right now, it's damage output is very low... and it takes Forever just to get a few status procs, when it's supposed to be reliant Only on status. 

TL;DR

Phantasma didn't get the status chance buff that All the other shotguns did.

[Flying_Scorpion]

The only thing I have a problem with so far is the removal of the 4x multiplier on the chance to apply an IPS status effect. It's much more difficult to apply IPS status effects without making a large sacrifice to overall damage output of the weapon. The only way I could see this being balanced out is if the 4x multiplier came back, or if the IPS mods like rupture, crash course, piercing hit, piercing caliber, fanged fusillade, sawtooth clip, applied their multipliers in consideration of total damage output of the weapon - same as elemental mods. Like when you put a 90% electric mod on, it takes total damage and then adds 90% of it as electric. If IPS mods worked the same way, then we could more easily mod our weapons specifically towards an IPS proc. As it stands now....you kind of have to gimp your overall damage output to be able to reliably build a weapon towards an IPS proc. 

 

I'm not sure if my suggestion is good advice though, because this would very clearly contribute towards power creep in warframe and I personally am concerned with the amount of powercreep that's been going on in the game. Maybe just reintroduce the 4x multiplier to IPS for status chances? I don't know. Maybe just give it more time and the players will figure out a way that works.

[Zalanore]

@Digital_Extremes

The changes to shotguns are... broken. After reading through much of this thread and doing a bunch of testing in the simulacrum the numbers just aren't adding up. Why did you make some shotguns "/ pellet" and some not? This looks like you forgot some weapons existed. In addition the shotguns that are "/ pellet" aren't procing often enough to be viable. It takes significantly more hits to get a useful status effect, and status based shotguns like the strun wreith and boar prime are a joke. My MK1 Braton deals more damage than they do now (okay, it has a riven, but so does my strun). I know you gave us the x3 status chance after dividing by the pellets, but the number of procs is so much lower than a 100% status chance shotgun before the nerf that the weapons just aren't viable anymore when compared to any other weapon type in the game.

There's a lot of people talking about how powerful shotguns are, but after running a 30 minute kuva survival I can confirm that this is a fallacy. Shotguns are actually WEAKER, but most enemies (especially grineer) were nerfed so much harder than shotguns that the shotguns look strong by comparison. Killing a level 150+ gineer is a joke now. I can take off half my mods and still 1 shot them with many weapons. (I'm not saying that's bad, I haven't delved into it too much yet, I'm just using it as a reference point). Techincally the tirgris prime has more killing power now, but that's not because of the status chance. It's the nerf to grineer. The tigris is actually better as a damage based weapon than a status weapon, where as before the patch it was the king of status weapons. When this update was supposed to "buff" status chance that's going in the wrong direction.

I was really looking forwards to all the new build potential with the changes to status effects, but this update just removed build potential. There are no new builds that work, a ton of old builds no longer work, and shotguns are laughably bad. I literally went out and farmed kuva and rolled a strun riven just for this update, and now that riven is worthless garbage.

Please take another look at how status chance is being implemented on shotguns. There's so much potential for fun, and zero realization.

[PaperMachine.Bae]

F for my tigris prime and strun wraith, my favorite weapons :c

[Elysium47]

So... has anyone noticed how Garuda’s Seeking Talons has been significantly nerfed? With 170% power strength I used to be able to annihilate lvl120 enemies using the combo of her 4 and 1, basically the slash procs would kill everything in mere seconds. now I can barely do any damage, no matter how much I charge the blood ball or how many times I cast her 4, the slash procs just don’t do much

Edited March 6, 2020 by Elysium47

[WeeMadHamish]

Gas feels...bad. And very very much a faction specific damage type.
Ten or so minutes fooling around with an embolyst, and it looks like not only do the procs not scale w/ anything other than base damage, but they are also still using the 1/4 base damage multiplier instead of 1/2 like every other damage over time.
Tested by spawning several lv 165 Arid Butchers and short firing until I got a single gas proc, an embolyst with no base damage mod on it always procced a tick of 3 damage.
- additional fire damage: 3 per tick

- additional toxin damage: 3 per tick
- *just* pistol savvy for the status chance of a toxin proc? 5 per tick, or (considering rounding) twice the damage

So really good against infested weenies, until a toxin ancient shows up and tosses in 80% DR vs gas, and really poor against Grineer and Corpus.
it's basically a half strength slash proc, that can be affected by damage mitigation, with the only positive being that it can be applied in a very small AoE

Edited March 6, 2020 by WeeMadHamish

[MarkusLove]

Can you better explain how Gas damage works now?  It sounds like it no longer procs toxin status effect and instead procs a damage over time gas effect. But, what is gas effect?  Like is it its entirely own new status now, and it does not by-pass shields like toxin does?

[IgnisDraconis4316]

43 minutes ago, Zalanore said:

He didn't die from "so much status" he died because all Grineer have no armor. Take off your status chance and he'll still die just as quickly. The Grineer are aparently made of paper mache now. The tigris has FEWER procs that it did before, not more. (And yes, I am taking into account that they combined the slash procs into 1 number).

Agreed. IT does feel better to not have grineer that can shrug off a shotgun blast though. Like hitting an enemy and only seeing 14 damage 4 times was kinda crap. Still shotguns feel just as good as ever but as you said it may be due to the armor being fixed.

[VoadorHolandes]

7,6% status per pellet on the Phantasma? The gun has no Crit, no Damage, and now has nothing.

They need to think this through a little more.

Edited March 6, 2020 by VoadorHolandes

[AnhurShu]

I would like to give my vote to the idea of swapping the blast and impact procs, neither proc is great but it would make more sense if they were swapped.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

The kohm/kohmak currently seem to work just how they used to, base status chance that gets divvied up amongst the extra pellets as it spools up.
Unfortunately neither the "status chance" nor the "status per pellet" stats accurately reflect the way it functions.

Either the UI needs a unique solution to this problem, or the weird status chance per projectile scaling that the kohm weapons do needs to change.

 

Also, about the Phage (I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, but it is not in the patch notes so i'm going to assume not.)...
The Phage always did a thing where, once the beams fully converged they were considered a single beam for the purposes of status procs. This was always a huge downgrade in status output when compared to stopping the beams right before they fully came together.
Is there any chance of either:
          A. The beams are still considered multiple beams even when fully converged, or
          B. They combine, but get a status buff to offset the huge loss in multishot?

18 minutes ago, VoadorHolandes said:

7,6% status per pellet on the Phantasma? The gun has no Crit, no Damage, and now has nothing.

They need to think this through a little more.

that's actually lower than the pre-patch per-pellet status chance of ~8.8%... so much for 3x buff in status chance, lol

Edited March 6, 2020 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel