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Warframe Revised: Kuva Lich Murmur Change & Fix Megathread


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Kuva Lich Murmurs / Fixes
Requiem Murmurs from failing a Kuva Lich Parazon stab will now again be shared with the entire squad! 

Why:
If we take a trip down memory lane, we’ll arrive at The Old Blood: Hotfix 26.0.5, where we fixed all players receiving Kuva Lich Requiem Murmur progress whenever someone in the squad failed to kill their Kuva Lich. Our intentions to have the Kuva Lich tied exclusively to the respective player were genuine, but the feedback has shone light on what is a worthwhile feature for the Kuva Lich system given its pace towards success. We have bigger plans for connecting Liches to other Systems, but this change is the only one ready for Mainline! 

On that note, we do have a chunk of general Kuva Lich Changes & Fixes coming in this Mainline:

Kuva Lich Changes & Fixes

  • Added fancy new FX when Valence Fusion has been successfully completed! 
  • The Kuva Lich section of the Codex now has tabs for Active, Vanquished, Converted, and Traded Liches!
  • Decreased the chances of Kuva Lich controlled sectors forcing an Exterminate situation to allow for more gamemode chances. 
  • Fixed only 1 Kuva weapon maintaining its innate bonus damage attribute and respective Kuva Lich name when claiming multiple Kuva weapons using the ‘Claim All’ button in the Foundry. 
  • This retroactively fixes the Kuva weapons that lost out on their innate bonus damage by giving them back their random buff. Unfortunately, the Kuva Lich name can’t be easily associated with the Kuva weapon, so these fixed weapons will have the default Kuva weapon name (Kuva Tonkor, Kuva Bramma, etc). 
  • Fixed an issue that would cause the Kuva Lich to slide when downed while doing a dodge.
  • Fixed downed Kuva Lich still proceeding to break backs (which was removed in 27.1.0) in an invisible state. 
  • More fixes towards Kuva Liches with the “Ruse” ability not having the same Warframe Helmet on the clones if an alternate helmet is equipped upon Lich creation. 
  • Fixed the Kuva Lich button not appearing in the UI in the rare case where a Nightwave season is not active. 
  • Fixed small FX offset issues with the Kuva Bramma when reloading. 
  • Fixed being able to bypass the cooldown between scoped shots with the Kuva Quartakk and Quatz by scoping and unscoping between shots.

Please remember to leave your feedback in a constructive and civil manner! Remember, this thread is for FEEDBACK ONLY. If you have a bug, please make sure you submit your bug on this thread and follow the new guidelines!

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Just to keep bringing up old posts that have received no reply, is there any particular reason why a Lich's Rage meter cannot be built up in other lich's planets?  As a player who has killed over 150 liches, through extensive testing, I found that farming Liches SOLO was the most efficient method to get the most murmur per hour (farm each lich's 10 converted thralls and then failing the lich).

When joining any type of Murmur farm group, my Lich would never gain any 'rage' if not on a planet and node that I already had a mission on, and the chances of 3-4 people's Lich's starting on the same planet is close to zero.   So after a couple of hours, my lich will not have spawned a single time because his rage meter is still zero, but I will have tier3 Murmur and all runes uncovered; therefore I will still need to go solo to build the rage and hopefully get the order of the runes asap.

Obviously the work around for this is for every member of the group to do round robin queuing, but even that means only 1 or 2 people (if lucky) are gaining rage for their lich, while the other 2 are not, which means that everyone's liches will ALL finally spawn at a rate 3x longer than going solo.  This is one of the few game modes where going SOLO is actually more efficient than going in a group.  I would hope that it would at LEAST be equally as efficient as a solo player, and hopefully, like excavations or other missions, beneficial to being in a group.

I personally love grouping with my clannies as long as it is efficient, and thus far, I have been pretty unwilling to do so for Liches because I'm basically spending 2-3 hours helping them spawn their, and then spending another hour or so trying to finish off mine, whereas I can do my own solo in about 1.5-2hrs.  Most groups completely skip farming the 10 thralls per lich, massacre your Lich, and continue on, and only 1 person is getting rage all the while.

As Valence Transfusion is now a thing, I cannot personally see any reason why DE wouldn't make the process a least a little more enjoyable for the players.  I, for one, DO enjoy going with my clannies to do missions efficiently because it's FAR less boring than doing it solo, I just wish it wouldn't be pointless for one of us.  Having too much murmur and no rage is actually pretty pointless.  Both need to be built up asap and in tangent, which is the most efficient while solo.  Similar to relics and other game modes, I hope that liches can be more efficient in a group, but still quite possible as a solo player as obviously you guys have created a great game for both solo players and group oriented players.

I know that everyone gaining rage in a group would mean that all 4 people's lich's would spawn faster resulting in 3 extra attempts per lich x 3 players, so 9 attempts over a solo player, and the potential for 20-30 more thralls being spawned in a single endless mission if the group efficiently farmed their Liches for the thralls, but honestly, SO WHAT.  After everyone has quickly dispensed of their Liches in a 'faster than solo manner', they will still need to go do the repetitive and tedious larvaling spawning (which can last 5 mins to 45 mins to even an hour which has happened to me), before rejoining another murmur squad.

It's not like quickly killing a Lich is necessarily a bad thing, and I would love it and i think the community would love it if this 'on-going event' could be efficiently farmed and enjoyed by friends, clannies, and group members, when there's nothing else to do.

I know you have heard this before, but as an avid player of your game and especially this game mode, I don't think that this request would shorten the kuva weapon grind by any means.  I suggested something similar to the Valence Transfusion way back in November, and I'm glad that you guys evaluated it and accepted it as many other players obviously voiced similar suggestions.  There are plenty of players that enjoy doing things solo, and I am one of them, but I don't think that players should be penalized, in essence, for joining a group to tediously farm thralls in missions instead of playing solo.

Thanks for all of the welcome improvements that you have done with Liches so far, and I believe that if this 'rage' issue was addressed, there honestly wouldn't be anything else I could suggest that would make it better or even more fun, while still maintaining a perpetual long term (relatively easy) grind for new and old players alike.

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Sire Bear, and DE dudes and dudettes, please, reduce the murmur required for the Lichs. We already took a long time to level up, creating Formas and level the weapon again until it hits the level 40. And the one of the worst thing, what if we get the lowest elemental damage for the Lich weapon. We need to grind more weapons to make that weak weapon stronger. It's already took too much time for the weapon grind and re-level it again and again. So please, just reduce the murmur requirements. Too much time spend on murmur gathering and leveling. We already got so many things too grind. The wiki said that total approximate murmur needed is 180, please just make it lower, maybe to 130 or 120. 

Or maybe Parazon upgrades to give chances for more murmurs gained. Or a Paraszon mod that gives increased chance to gain 2x or 3x murmurs. 

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I don't know that a feedback thread was really required for these no-brainer changes, which are needless to say great, but maybe I can use this to draw your attention to some issues with the lich system you seem unaware of:

Kuva liches gain no anger and cannot spawn in missions they don't own. So if you accompany your friend to their lich mission that your lich doesn't also own, you stall your own lich progress. Disincentivizing playing with friends like that in a co-op game seems... unwise.

Vanquishing or converting a lich sometimes causes the mission to not spawn any additional thralls or liches. Supposedly this happens when the host defeats their lich, but I haven't tested this enough to be able to confirm, all I can say is it happens sometimes.

It is extremely easy to accidentally stab a kuva larvling you didn't mean to stab. This would be an excellent place for the hold-to-confirm mechanic you trialled with Railjack. My mind boggles at the fact that the game requires that confirmation when making selections that are completely inconsequential if done accidentally, such as crafting revolite, but not when stabbing a larvling, where one stray button press condemns you to hours upon hours of tedious, fruitless grind.

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21 minutes ago, .LeiA._ said:

Sire Bear, and DE dudes and dudettes, please, reduce the murmur required for the Lichs. We already took a long time to level up, creating Formas and level the weapon again until it hits the level 40. And the one of the worst thing, what if we get the lowest elemental damage for the Lich weapon. We need to grind more weapons to make that weak weapon stronger. It's already took too much time for the weapon grind and re-level it again and again. So please, just reduce the murmur requirements. Too much time spend on murmur gathering and leveling. We already got so many things too grind. The wiki said that total approximate murmur needed is 180, please just make it lower, maybe to 130 or 120. 

Or maybe Parazon upgrades to give chances for more murmurs gained. Or a Paraszon mod that gives increased chance to gain 2x or 3x murmurs. 

This, not touching the Lich System until this is addressed. 

On top of that remove the RNG/RollDice on the fact we need to have the mods IN ORDER to kill them, once we get the murmur we can kill them, not play with our mods to try "guess" what order it is.

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On 2020-03-02 at 9:06 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Decreased the chances of Kuva Lich controlled sectors forcing an Exterminate situation to allow for more gamemode chances. 

Exterminate is default and most "fitted" gamemode for lich/thralls hunting, as it both requres not going way too fast, so lich and thralls could spawn, but also gives freeflow encountering of thralls. Other gamemodes either too fast (capture, sabotage), or has some objects, which could be damaged by lich up to mission fail (such as mobile defence), so in first type of situations in public games thralls almost don't spawn comparing to exterminate, while second type of missions are usually ignored. Was it really good idea to lower amount of exterminate?

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb .LeiA._:

Sire Bear, and DE dudes and dudettes, please, reduce the murmur required for the Lichs. We already took a long time to level up, creating Formas and level the weapon again until it hits the level 40. And the one of the worst thing, what if we get the lowest elemental damage for the Lich weapon. We need to grind more weapons to make that weak weapon stronger. It's already took too much time for the weapon grind and re-level it again and again. So please, just reduce the murmur requirements. Too much time spend on murmur gathering and leveling. We already got so many things too grind. The wiki said that total approximate murmur needed is 180, please just make it lower, maybe to 130 or 120. 

Or maybe Parazon upgrades to give chances for more murmurs gained. Or a Paraszon mod that gives increased chance to gain 2x or 3x murmurs. 

I say give us at least extra ones for finishing the mission objectives, because in the long run every mission is a exterminate to spawn a capture target.

Same should go for fissures, objectives should drop reactents, so people who joined late still can open there relic.

But yes, main point on Lichs, let objectives and or bonus objectives give murmurs aswell, maybe different thralls give more murmur also, consdeiring some are minor soldiers while some can be bombards. Even seen a destroyer in disruption turn thrall so. That is also a random factor that needs a look at.

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We shouldn't be punished for playing Lich content with our friends. Our Liches should attack us and get enraged if we join a Lich mission on a planet where our Lich is absent as well.

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Well, i posted this in the other Feedbackthread (KuvaLich 1.1) already but i am gonna post it here again since i think at least for me the whole Lich System needs a few more changes to make me play it again. Anyway, this is what i am still missing:

 

Zitat

Weapon determination:

  • It was annoying as hell to pray to RNG to get the weapon the you want
  • With this hotfix the only thing that changed is that i get a preview of the RNG - you didnt remove the annoying part
  • if i want a certain weapon i still have to pray to RNG that i am allowed to get a certain weapon and might have to run a stupid amount of meaningless missions to get there

Possible fix:

  • i suggested it a few times: just let us actively chose the weapon the Lich/Larvling will carry. Whats wrong with that?
  • Just like our Warframes determine the element of the weapon - the weapon we used to kill the larvling determines the weapon itself.
  1. is there an existing weapon of a kuva-variant (normal Kraken for example)? Kill the Larvling with Kraken to get Kuva Kraken.
  2. want the Archgun? Kill it with an Archgun.
  3. Want the Melee-Weapon? Kill it with a Melee Weapon.

.

Edit: different possible fix:

  • instead of making the carried weapon determine the kuva weapon, make the Starchart map the factor choosing the weapon
  • so each Kuva Weapon has one or more designated Starchart maps to it
  • this means you can farm whatever weapon in a reliable way and focus on what is important for you instead of having to run random missions again and again for possibly hours just to get the weapon you want (keep in mind, you still have to go through the whole murmur process afterwards...all you have achieved so far is to start the farming process)

 

Zitat

 

I know i am not killing a larvling who doesnt has the weapon i want, you know it, everyone knows it.

So why am i forced to run a random meaningless mission over and over again to even start the process of farming a weapon?

Ps: Other players mentioned that they dont like being forced to own the original variant of the Kuva-Weapons in order to get them.

To adress this, the weapon determination could remain random like it is now if you kill the Larvling with a weapon which doesnt have a Kuva-Variant.

 

Am 20.2.2020 um 15:54 schrieb Invoky:

I just did 30 Cassini captures and still didn't see Kuva Karak. Instead, I was seeing duplicated of Drakoon, Nukor, Kraken, and Brakk.

Then after 30 runs I accidentally hit mercy on a larvling. Now I have to clear this lich by farming requiem mods and thralls, such time consuming process for a single button mistake.

This here is exactly the reason why i decided not to do another Lich after the Update:

On paper it might sound like something improved - but it leads to stupid scenarios like this.

 

But even with this change, would i engage Liches more often? Probably only for the new Bow (and maybe the Archgun).

Why? Because like so many players pointed out, the process of Murmur farming itself gets so tedious i really dont wanna do it.

 

Separation from the rest of the game:

  • Liches are completly seperated from the rest of the game. If you want to fight a Lich, you only have exclusive missions to do that.
  • Thats part of the reason why Murmur farming is that annoying. You cannot really do anything else if you want to progess there.
  • Playing up to 4 hours to get a certain weapon might be ok if it could be done everywhere in the game, but when we have to dedicate all of our time to one single activity (which is that boring) it feels like a torture.

Possible fix:

  • Let Thralls spawn in any kind of mission - no matter which part of the game you chose to play, you can progress with Liches a bit.
  • add some kind of different Murmur farm to Railjack since Liches were supposed to be part of that anyway.
  • in regards to stealing loot: determine the amount of stolen loot with Thralls killed: Lots of Thralls killed = least amount stolen / Few Thralls killed = lots of Loot stolen
  • Imagine we could gather standing for syndicate only in syndicate missions or Focus only in ESO...ofc that would get crazy annoying - just add options.

 

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I like the concept that converted Kuva Liches can randomly spawn into other missions to assist. However, when it occurs in a spy mission, for example, it can really mess things up. Can you please consider a toggle to disable this "help" prior to mission?

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On 2020-03-02 at 7:06 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Kuva Lich Murmurs / Fixes
Requiem Murmurs from failing a Kuva Lich Parazon stab will now again be shared with the entire squad!

Murmur farming is still a boring time sink island. Not even worth the kuva "rewards".

There is nothing special about these missions. Just regular missions with high lvl enemies.

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Some of us have been grinding Liches since day 1, so we either haver all weapons or at the very least all the weapons we were interested in and with the desired elements, so the weapon preview in larvings is not helpful to us (a welcomed change and useful to players in general, but not relevant to us specifically). Please consider adding an ephemera preview (when applicable) alongside the weapon one, It would help aleviate the hunt for epehemeras DRAMATICALLY, specially considering that we are already going for liches with duplicate weapons in elements that are irrelevant to our buildcraft preferences, so we have to go on this particularly tedious grind to get nothing out of it the vast majority of the time.

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I was expecting for the murmur farming to be addressed when I heard there would be changes and fixes to it, but it seems these are only QOL changes, and as much as these are appreciated, these are not the changes that will fix the murmur system:

- Reduce Murmur farming

It still is a boring grind, it`s the one thing that makes players not want to interact with the Lich system as a whole.

Fixing it doesn`t exactly mean reduce it in numbers (though that could work as a quick fix), it would be much more benefitial for the game to include more ways to obtain it, especially if they intertwine with eachother, for example:  When doing kuva missions, thralls spawn to give out murmurs, and by completing that mission, the player is also awarded more murmurs. (Some missions give more murmurs than others)

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Please consider running with friends, and let are liches spawn on friend's nodes.

I also don't have a weapon to test with since the most recent change but can we also keep the first weapons damage bonus type when adding in a new weapon and then if adding a weapon with forma to another that doesn't have it apply the forma so we can move damage types around?

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The murmur gain from lich attempt change is nice.. or rather would be, if lich matchmaking was at all sustainable. It was clear from day 1 that an activity that spans over 200+ nodes randomly selected for each player couldn't work well for matchmaking, and it'll only get worse and worse as time goes one. Finding even one other person is somewhat rare, not to mention getting a full squad.

Take a look at fissures, sorties, siphons and what have you. They all have the same selection of nodes for *all* players. That's why the playerbase isn't spread so thin that holes start to appear.

And I second what others have said about litch hunting with friends. The anger meter and lich spawns really need to work even if it's someone else's lich territory, otherwise premade squads are absurdly penalized compared to public matchmaking (which, again, is nigh impossible at this point)

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so i just mindlessly did murmurs alll day had 7 missions with no show even tho i knew the 3 code then i mercy kill a thrall oh wait no its a larvaling and am stuck with a bad lich... i guess i will log off for months ...

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Guys I do have question.

I rolled 25% bonus on my lich weapon 4th time in a row. I know it was supposed to be random and I'm little suspicious. Chances of getting exactly 25% in a row is are slim. Could you check if there is something affecting my rolls? This started happening before the update.

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47 minutes ago, mmisiol said:

Guys I do have question.

I rolled 25% bonus on my lich weapon 4th time in a row. I know it was supposed to be random and I'm little suspicious. Chances of getting exactly 25% in a row is are slim. Could you check if there is something affecting my rolls? This started happening before the update.

Similarly to this in 15 liches 13 had weapons with 27% or below bonus...

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As a veteran, I'm refusing to touch kuva liches yet on the basis that it takes a good long time and several patches for new game systems to be (a) fixed, and (b) somewhat balanced - see: Railjack - and nothing I'm seeing in patch notes and the comments for them has convinced me that this has yet reached that state, but why in god's name do you force people to put 5 forma on weapons that they might not even want to keep?  Fair enough for the paracesis, it was a one-off for a weapon that has some significance to the lore and is presumably vital or near-vital to upcoming New War content, but formaing weapons should be a choice, not a chore.  This has all the hallmarks of a chore, and that's even with my having more than enough crafted forma so as not to have to worry about being able to do so.  Since when has forced extra grind on something that you might not even want been fun?

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Hi team, 

Thank you for your hard work. However, it appears that the reduction of exterminate nodes for kuva liches also brought back the issues of defection nodes appearing. I am unable to spawn kuva thralls on defection nodes which makes the node unobtainable, which then prevents the kuva influence from spreading across other planets in the system, which in turn prevents me from conquering the lich at all. The current node affected for me is Memphis, Phobos. 

I have not read extensively through this topic so I am unsure if I am the only one affected. I hope you keep an eye on this issue and have it resolved soon. Thank you!

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I'm amazed on how empty this thread is compared to others... But here we go.

  • As pointed out, the anger mechanics should be changed so we can play together, no matter the planet we are in.
  • It may be me, but it feels like the liches are taking longer to spawn. I made two liches so far. Both of them only appeared twice before my murmur was maxed out. Level 5 liches don't even appear now, and, although the murmur was increased, there is no point in having all 3 parazon mods revealed if the Lich itself doesn't spawn for you to attempt it. Weird.
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Now with murmur finally fixed, I feel the rewards are still lacking, so what happens when we go all the weapons? There is no end goal other then getting the weapons after that you leave this "gametype" until DE update it again. I suggested adding an incentive to actually the play Kuva lich "gametype." I just find it odd there still isn't a "group standing" like fortuna, Cetus, and the rest the factions to grind or even a vendor shop. Now adding currency/standing from hunting thralls and liches will give people a reason grind for. I'm aware with the lack of matchmaking with other players, add specific matchmaking that focus on helping other players liches and earn more currency/standing in return. 

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