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Railjack is fun! Here are my rough spots (Returning player experience)


Replacement
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Background: I played at the outset of open beta, played a lot with RL friends; I almost never play public.  After I got to Mastery Rank 20 or so, Warframe dwindled and has gone in and out of rotation several times in the past few years.  The game "jumped the sharkwing" for me at Rivens and the billion new things I didn't want to do for the Plains, but I've never uninstalled it because it's always been a fun game.  I would definitely describe myself as casual, at this point.  It's very obvious my opinion doesn't reflect the Forum Zeitgeist.  This is exactly why I hope DE gets a chance to read this.

Tactical Menu: I'm really enjoying the idea of this, but it feels like it's suffered a Death from a Thousand Cuts.  It's powerful but clunky, and you're softly incentivized away from it.

  • On PC, This needs to be re-bind-able.  L is stupid far away.
  • Movement keys should still function while this menu is up, similar to the Tab.
  • Other keys should have different functions in this menu.  Specifically, the Power 1-4 buttons should be mapped to "Squadmate Kinesis" 1-4, respectively
  • It's no secret the Tactics category itself is... laughable after rank 4.  I would strongly suggest a weak Flux Energy Siphon effect to higher Intrinsic levels. 
    • As it stands, when I'm on an ally's ship, I have to be cognizant of the fact that my decision to call down a Larva is costing actual resources, and that's just one of those many tiny considerations holding the Tac Menu back.
  • The Rank 5 benefit, for all both of us who have progressed that far - would be really nice if we could get a picture-in-picture version of our own screen while shadowing others.  This would be a lot less of a problem if the rest of the Tac Menu experience was much snappier, though.

Archwing: Right up until Railjack, we (my group) have always done our best to ignore Archwing.  Now we suddenly want to use it and would like for it to be effective.

  • A level 20 Itzal with maxed health/shield/armor mods should not die instantly in early Earth Proxima from hit-scan weapons with no recourse.  Something really needs addressed with the damage scaling when these anti-ship weapons aim-bot my archwing.  If you're balancing all of this around maxed Amesha, you're doing it wrong.
    • Again, remember that I am not an elite hardcore player.  This is the "new railjack experience" and this is what it feels like for us.  I'm sure people will respond to this thread about how I just need to git gud, about how amazing their Archwings are in this content.  But right now, it's a noob trap.
  • If you can address the damage and aim scalar, I'd actually really like to see Archwing enemies taking to the field, instead of just Crewships and their assorted Fighter types.  Seriously - you have a whole faction of Archwing enemies already designed and functional - use them!

PUG Concern:  The inherent problem of Intrinsics and soft roles is living up to the PUG expectation.  This means the natural path of RJ development will be to ensure people can be effective regardless of their allocation. 

I implore DE to decide if the direction they want to see the game is for everyone to have maxed intrinsics, and everyone to be slotted into a match with randos and zero expectations. If you wanted to combat this:

  • Consider creating a system based on Dry Dock Relays where players can pre-build parties, perhaps using Maroo-style information cards, but advertising the ship functions they're looking to do instead of what they're selling
  • Consider a system of allocating Intrinsics, such that no player can roll out with all 10s.  Ideally, able to change them when on the field but awaiting Navigation.

General Experience: I'm very tolerant of bugs and losing progress, so I've had a pretty rosy initial experience.

The ship-based "soft roles" are really cool, especially with how it sees a group (and I imagine this would be true for other small clans of active players) focusing on those assorted roles with our Intrinsics.  I love the scope of it all.  I continue to be impressed with how good it feels to achieve our goals and have good, organic teamwork.  I cannot stress this enough: this is engaging and, when things go right, legitimately the most fun I've had since the original Devil May Cry.

One more thing: Move intrinsics out of Profile!

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I also really enjoy Empyrean as well, but agree that there's plenty of work to be done. Best situation for work to be needed though.

 

18 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Tactical Menu: I'm really enjoying the idea of this, but it feels like it's suffered a Death from a Thousand Cuts.  It's powerful but clunky, and you're softly incentivized away from it.

  • On PC, This needs to be re-bind-able.  L is stupid far away.
  • Movement keys should still function while this menu is up, similar to the Tab.
  • Other keys should have different functions in this menu.  Specifically, the Power 1-4 buttons should be mapped to "Squadmate Kinesis" 1-4, respectively
  • It's no secret the Tactics category itself is... laughable after rank 4.  I would strongly suggest a weak Flux Energy Siphon effect to higher Intrinsic levels. 
    • As it stands, when I'm on an ally's ship, I have to be cognizant of the fact that my decision to call down a Larva is costing actual resources, and that's just one of those many tiny considerations holding the Tac Menu back.
  • The Rank 5 benefit, for all both of us who have progressed that far - would be really nice if we could get a picture-in-picture version of our own screen while shadowing others.  This would be a lot less of a problem if the rest of the Tac Menu experience was much snappier, though.

Agreed. Flux energy is already a resource that can be acquired though gameplay (… I think? Sometimes when I kill things my energy regenerates on its own) so there's a precedent.

21 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Archwing: Right up until Railjack, we (my group) have always done our best to ignore Archwing.  Now we suddenly want to use it and would like for it to be effective.

  • A level 20 Itzal with maxed health/shield/armor mods should not die instantly in early Earth Proxima from hit-scan weapons with no recourse.  Something really needs addressed with the damage scaling when these anti-ship weapons aim-bot my archwing.  If you're balancing all of this around maxed Amesha, you're doing it wrong.
    • Again, remember that I am not an elite hardcore player.  This is the "new railjack experience" and this is what it feels like for us.  I'm sure people will respond to this thread about how I just need to git gud, about how amazing their Archwings are in this content.  But right now, it's a noob trap.

Hopefully some of the Warframe: revised changes will assist, and apparently Archwings are getting a rework. Having said that, I agree with you to some extent - whilst Archwings should be squishy in comparison to the Railjack, the degree to which they're squishier is ludicrously overtuned.

22 minutes ago, Replacement said:

If you can address the damage and aim scalar, I'd actually really like to see Archwing enemies taking to the field, instead of just Crewships and their assorted Fighter types.  Seriously - you have a whole faction of Archwing enemies already designed and functional - use them!

Agreed. I feel like they'd be best used Archwing-focused sections in certain missions - justified with areas too small or too well-defended for the full 'jack to infiltrate successfully. Double points if some of these missions allow you to then take the Railjack and turn the above point against them. 

 

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5 hours ago, Replacement said:

Tactical Menu:

honestly, I don't really use this. even in the veil where enemies are the toughest in the whole game, the right weapons usually melt them fast enough, and if you have time to use the tac menu, you have time to run up and deal with enemies as normal. bear in mind I don't have Form Up on mine, if I did I'd probably just use it for that, on the rare occasions I would have to (usually waiting for everyone to leave a base after killing a Commander.)

5 hours ago, Replacement said:

Archwing:

Archwings are becoming modular, so it looks like you will be able to take your favourite parts of each Archwing and mix them. right now Amesha is the only viable option and DE knows this, hence why we got universal blink. chances are that these "new but not-new" Archwings will also be re-balanced, as it's known for players with default and weaker railjacks to just use archwing to complete missions instead. DE would rather people not do this, so they will likely try to find a balancing point where Archwing is useful, but not a substitute for a railjack in combat.

5 hours ago, Replacement said:

PUG Concern:

personally, PUGs will no longer be much of a concern for me once Command Intrinsic goes live and we get our long-awaited NPC crews. anyone who goes public should know the risks and that they could well end up with a squad that is not up to their (sometimes unreasonable) standards. a couple of tweaks could be made though, like only allowing the Host to use the Nav Console, to prevent being pulled into another mission when you might want to go back to Dry Dock instead. I appreciate the idea of allocating intrinsics, but I think the amount of time you have to invest in Railajck to get all Intrinsics maxed warrants having a lot of pwer as the end result. if I'm gonna have to farm a total of several thousand intrinsics points to max everything, you're damn right I want to have ALL the perks.

5 hours ago, Replacement said:

General Experience:

glad you're having a good time with it though: launch was VERY shaky but things are smoothing out slowly but surely. you should stick around for Scarlet Spear when that goes live, that will be the next major Railjack update, and we'll finally get to see how well Squad Link performs on it's debut.

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Flux energy mats are so cheap that using it really doesn't hurt anything to use it, but I've had no luck using the tactical menu even when I tried to rebind it. The support intrinsics are super strong, like Fire Suppression (rename it to Hazard Suppression) working on electrics means boarding party clean up can be a button press.

 

the Crew Cam is nice for the pilot or an engineer who may have half a second to give the away team some support (drop in an Octavia Resonator for power efficient free away mission) and can be used to quick return to the ship faster than the recall, as Tac menu will still have ship fast travel if your crew camming someone on the boat.

 

Pugging has mostly been a difference in strategies causing problems: IE: Someone who's Crewship answer is 'artillery' trying to mesh with someone who's answer is 'Slingshot' is an, interesting time. Also goes into weapon selection (I hate how the cryophon feels and flows and I think any munitions weapon that isn't the tycho is garbage in comparison to the tycho, but others swear by them.)

 

Right now the big problem has been connection stability and general round buggy-nes. It's a bit of a mess with potential for lots of fun (Archwings being kinda useless being a big detributor to the lack of fun) If that gets stabilized so I don't get host migrated every other instance into a map that doesn't have enough enemy spawn, then we'd have a fantastic game mode.

... maybe tone down enemy health scaling too, cause like, I shouldn't need a full Corrossive Supra Vandal magazine to down a crewship captain. That's silly.

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14 hours ago, Replacement said:

Tactical Menu: I'm really enjoying the idea of this, but it feels like it's suffered a Death from a Thousand Cuts.  It's powerful but clunky, and you're softly incentivized away from it.

My main problem is that the tac menu appeariance lags on appearance, making the game judder and the teleport interface is messy to the point where it's generally quicker to just bullet jump whereever you need to go anyway.

14 hours ago, Replacement said:

Archwing: Right up until Railjack, we (my group) have always done our best to ignore Archwing.  Now we suddenly want to use it and would like for it to be effective.

  • A level 20 Itzal with maxed health/shield/armor mods should not die instantly in early Earth Proxima

I have a fully set up railjack and almost all the gear, rank 8 intrinsics across the board, all solo via archwing only and hiding my Railjack (because DE threw, and contuinue to throw, solo players under the bus for Empyrean) That is a lot of archwing combat

Archwing combat with an Amesha in Empyrean is the best that Archwing has ever been in Warframe, that said, nothing other than Amesha is usable simply because of the damage given out and the time needed to take down fighters (even at 100% accuracy with the strongest weapons). This really, really needs to change Damage, Health and scaling for team size is totally out of whach right now.

 

Edited by SilentMobius
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On launch day I had this to say about Railjack:

It's either a terrible game mode, or an amazing demo

Railjack gets a lot of grumbling now, but I don't think that's because it has no merits. It's because the merits it does have can't sustain it for four months

Anyway, onto specific responses

14 hours ago, Replacement said:

Tactical Menu: I'm really enjoying the idea of this, but it feels like it's suffered a Death from a Thousand Cuts.  It's powerful but clunky, and you're softly incentivized away from it

Archwing: Right up until Railjack, we (my group) have always done our best to ignore Archwing.  Now we suddenly want to use it and would like for it to be effective

Those tactical menu ideas, especially the 1-4 keys suggestion, are great

Archwing mostly got shafted because they have left it abandoned for years. Of course it isn't balanced in RJ, they forgot how TO balance it. And at the same time, they want to make sure that nothing Archwing can do makes Railjack itself superfluous, they they have also piled hefty damage nerfs all over Archwing just to make sure. And I agreed that is going way too far in the other direction because Archwings should be useful

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50分钟前 , SilentMobius 说:

My main problem is that the tac menu appeariance lags on appearance, making the game judder and the teleport interface is messy to the point where it's generally quicker to just bullet jump whereever you need to go anyway.

I have a fully set up railjack and almost all the gear, rank 8 intrinsics across the board, all solo via archwing only and hiding my Railjack (because DE threw, and contuinue to throw, solo players under the bus for Empyrean) That is a lot of archwing combat

Archwing combat with an Amesha in Empyrean is the best that Archwing has ever been in Warframe, that said, nothing other than Amesha is usable simply because of the damage given out and the time needed to take down fighters (even at 100% accuracy with the strongest weapons). This really, really needs to change Damage, Health and scaling for team size is totally out of whach right now.

 

Railjack actually is solo able, just one needs to understand how the system works.

To fully solo a Railjack, we need 4/4/5/5, for the start, 1/1/2/2 is good to go.

1. It’s nearly impossible to avoid fighter’s attacks, and one shouldn’t worry about them. Because their damage are minimum and as long as your repair gun isn’t empty,  they can barely kill u.

2. Gunner rank 2 gives your side turret 360 degrees view which makes u able to defend your Railjack from fighters with one side turret only. Forget about the pilot turret, pilot seat concerns only about moving the ship, not searching and shooting fighters.

 

So basically, for fighters, u just need to leave the pilot seat and use the side turret to deal with them. You shouldn’t worry too much about the damage caused by them, only need to repair crucial damage.

 

For Crewship, if you have rank 5 gunner and can use forward mega cannon, things will be easy: aim and shoot.

 

If u don’t have rank 5 gunner or run out of ammo, u need to drive your Railjack to a cover, that’s the pilot’s job I believe: avoid Crewship’s gunfire.

 

Once your ship it’s behind the cover, you can go to Archwings and deal the Crewships. As long as u do it quick, fighters won’t be enough to kill you.

 

So I think this is DE’s job assignment for a full squad: 

Pilot: Avoid Crewship’s gunfire, use forward cannon to kill Crewship, he should concern about big targets only. Equals to tank frame.

Gunners: Use the side turrets to kill fighters and all kinds of small to medium targets. Equals to DPS frame.

Engineer: Repair, deal with intruder, forge ammunition. Equals to healer frame.

Arch-wingman : Support others, he can do all kinds of job, but not as good as the other three. Equals to buffer frame.

 

Solo Railjack will makes u short on time, but it’s possible in some degrees.

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Main Railjack problem - all mission.... all of them.... all... - exactly the same. After some time, it just starts wildly annoying, as there is no variety.

The number of opponents that need to be killed in the mission is, in my opinion, too large, especially for the void. The battle in space itself does not have any wow effects or mechanics, you simply shoot inside the cursor until the enemy dies, then repeat it 90 times.The amount of armor and hp on the opponents inside Crewship is just as absurd, they are just sponges. Which slows down the already slow gameplay.

Well and most importantly, in this game mode there is no balance at all. This applies to the design of missions, and to opponents, and to mods, and to weapons to all.

Unfortunately, at the moment this is very boring and repetitive content. In which there is no component that could hook me as a player.

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2 hours ago, dennyzhao said:

Railjack actually is solo able, just one needs to understand how the system works.

And what do you do until your intrinsics and avionics are at the level you can do that?

Nah...

It's much easier to park your Railjack in a place that the fighters can't path to and just do the whole thing in AW, less faffing based on a design assuming multiple warm bodies and no consideration for the solo player.

I'd debate that it's possible in any meaningfull way. It's only masochists like me, who are hunting MR that even try.

Which is why DE are lowering the cost of entry, because the take up is low.

But, again. The right way to do this is actually consider the solo player and scale sensibly. If DE's solution is the command intrinsic then so be it, sort that out.

But leaving solo players out in the cold for launch was bad enough, doing it for a major operation, that's a bad, bad look.

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It is a great mode with a S#&$ ton of issues and I got a lot of time out of it.  But once ur ship is maxed and u have all the avionics it’s kinda over. I was really hoping they would keep mixing up items in the little duck store but that hasnt been the case, so no need to run the Sentient anymore (200+ shards for me). If players could use extra Durac for forma or rewards the mode would have a lot more legs under it.  But we’ll see what happens with the next update. I want 3-4 RJ in a big raid like battle against an enemy Battle ship or planet atmosphere then land for a big battle on the ground. 

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