2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[Aeodyn0]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

No damage buffs have been added, but any weapons with AOE are receiving ~20% increase in Radius. Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt. Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

What curve does this falloff follow? At least if it's linear, with a radius buff of 20%, this is exactly a nerf by 50%: For an enemy uniformly distributed within the old radius, the expected damage taken is exactly half that of before. Yeah, for individual targets this just incentivizes aim, but that's not the use-case of AOE weapons: against crowds, this hurts.

You should also really be careful about falloff in general: This specifically is why the Torid feels so ineffectual to use.

Edit: If you want falloff, do it how every other game does it: no falloff until a certain radius. This also solves the problem of the effect of how distance to enemies is calculated for weapons with short falloff, which could cause an effective minimum falloff, even on a direct hit.

[IwOwnage]

Those new status effects are very interesting...
Let's look at Impact and Blast for example:

Blast (you literally got explsion right at your face):
- "I'm not feeling too well, my head aches, why can't I aim?"

Impact (cute rubber bullet):
1st shot - "Ouch, my head, what's going on..."
2nd shot - ~warframe space program~

 

2020’s First Mainline part 1 vs part 2:

 

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

26 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

I'm tired of others saying for me to shut up cause my opinion and ideas

It'd be one thing if that were what you were doing, but you aren't.  90% of what you're doing is calling other people idiots because they're right and you're wrong, implying that they should shut up.  Of the remaining 10%, 5% is differences of opinion between you and others that is more difficult to test, and 5% is you coming out of the blue with weird and apparently random suggestions.  If you're wondering why people are telling you to shut up, wonder no more.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

R5 guardian for 21 arcanes invested should stay at 20% to get triggered, the 900 armor is reasonable it's a fair middle ground and i'm glad to see it's been considered after many suggestions.

I think nobody likes ragdolls of any sort as a side effect of Impact proc, they're detrimental toward headshots or whatever weak points the player wants to hit.

Viral not halving the enemies's health anymore is a big nerf end of story...To benefit from that status you have to have no armor on grineers first , and unless you have changed the type of health on corpused to cloned flesh, it won't do anything extra to them. We have toxin and gas procs anyway for corpuses.

As per devstream the way you worded how rad procs are going to work and stack meant that a subsequent proc would give a bonus % Dealt to said enemy, not that The enemy itself would deal extra dmg to their former allies..Big difference.

Rad procs should still keep nullifying ancients auras while under the effect, and i hope this feature isn't lost.

I'm very skeptical about those armor buffs, they're so minor that i barely see any difference in performances to their survivability...nothing else to add there.

Waiting 4 seconds when shields are gone ( and the gating mechanic takes over ) before they start replenishing seems like a big nonsense because here's the scenario according to how it was worded so far :

Frame takes "fatal" hit, shields get depleted, gating steps in, 1 second of invulnerability i suppose, and now we have 3 additional seconds at 0 shields before they start regenerating ?

Absurd.

 

 

[ToaSirian]

4 hours ago, SnowyGreyish said:

Wait, is nidus the only one that didn't get armor changes?

but nidus is immortal !

[Flying_Scorpion]

Please don't cave in and hold strong against the flood of people crying for more buffs. Please...keep the game at least reasonably challenging. 

[Shawm.Teamkiller]

4小时前 , [DE]Rebecca 说:

Nyx: 15 to 100

Nyx Prime: 50 to 125

Oberon: 150 to 175 

Octavia: 125 to 150

where Oberon prime???

[TheLordOmega2]

most of these changes look bad, it looks like both shotguns and launchers are getting nerfed to hell and back

 

everyone would have been happy with just an HUD indicator telling you if the missile is going to travel far enough to detonate away from you (in theory) but no, better nerf the whole thing.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

14 minutes ago, mikakor said:

no. there's nothing to test. they nerf the arcanes that people use. but WHY do they nerf it? because the others aren't used enough to their taste. why aren't they used more? because no one will use arcanes heat resistance proc. you don't need to be a game dev to know that. but i guess you need a brain to understand it, apparently. thought it was clear enough. i'm sitll mad over catchmoon, but there was other, just as decent, options. so it wasn't much of a problem. beside grace / energize / guardian, and the occasion aegis /  weapon arcanes of fire rate and C. Chance, what other arcanes can be used across the game? none. you don't fix a game by breaking it to pieces until everything is mediocre. tell me, what arcanes will the player base use that is useful, if they these arcanes that i've said were gone?

Hi Itzal Blink, replaced by a joke of a first ability. dare telling me this isn't stupid. it's a copy paste of Valkyr's, which still isn't used either.

You want a game where everything is mediocre play Destiny. 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. 

I feel like I'm talking to an idiot. I had an argument with someone just like you on the forums. He was complaining about Murmur farming in a thread about using the Parazon in other Non-Lich missions. He was so fixated on an issue that he hated that he went to 5 other threads that had nothing to do with Murmur farming to complain about Murmur farming.

Oh there is nothing to test....... then I guess it was wise for DE to put out railjack untested...... so what are you complaining about. 

What would they use? They would adapted and use something else. What happened when the tonkor was nerfed? Did the game die? No they played another weapon. When damage 2.0 came out did everyone quit? No they got used to the new system. WOuld I use a Resistance arcane if it actually helped me out. YES. But you want this game to die quickly. Buff the Bramma to be the best dps gun in the game so that NO ONE wants to use anything else and watch this game die.

People are leaving cause you have a bunch of stuff that has no use so you stick to one thing. They said this would be a metal shift GET USED TO IT. Or go play another game that will do what you want. No one is forcing you to play Warframe if it is that bad of a game. But don't ruin the fun for others or tell them they are stupid because you want something that the rest of us do not.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

11 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

It'd be one thing if that were what you were doing, but you aren't.  90% of what you're doing is calling other people idiots because they're right and you're wrong, implying that they should shut up.  Of the remaining 10%, 5% is differences of opinion between you and others that is more difficult to test, and 5% is you coming out of the blue with weird and apparently random suggestions.  If you're wondering why people are telling you to shut up, wonder no more.

And I'm saying if I am wrong prove it. Telling someone that they are wrong just so you can ride your high horse doesn't make you right. 

So far the only argument I heard is "I HATE THIS CHANGE." that is not a good enough reason to make a change in a game where thousands, millions play. 

[IgnisDraconis4316]

4 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Except warframe's never bene challenging other htan 'enemy one shots you from across the map' or 'is a wall of armor' or 'randomly invulnerability phase' or 'high armor AND is status immune.' 

I agree. But hopefully this patch will help somewhat. The orbs and liches are the only content I find challenging.

Railjack is more..... buggy then challenging right now.

[Ham_Grenabe]

What would be amazing would be if the posters who want to discuss who's most wrongerest could find another thread to do it in. Just sayin'. 

[Lahared]

Hey.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcanes will require 21 Arcanes to reach the new Max Rank of 5. Scarlet Spear will feature a buy-what-you-want shop for Arcanes based on the currency earned in the event. It will launch in March shortly after the Mainline. 

There's a few questions to ask just based on this one quote. Will the merchant's store be FAIR or will it insist on being just like Plague Star? Because in that case, you still had to farm a considerable amount more to get 1 forma per run (if you used the max amount infested catalysts & eidolon phylaxes), than if you did a regular fissure mission for forma.

Why the artificial farm increase? Because even after the event is over, unless it's gonna be reoccurring, there's still the usual eidolon time gate arcane farm. And that's fun, right?

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Self Damage + AoE Weapons

In addition to Self Damage being removed, some of the more powerful AOE weapons without Self Damage presently will have the Stagger added, but it should only be noticeable in cases of extreme inaccuracy on the player’s part. The Weapons include: 

Opticor

Opticor Vandal

This one I have a hard time understanding. Unless the logic here is that if you're near a strong impact vector that you should recoil from it, it just seems like a mediocre addition. I still believe that self damage should be kept in, but toned down of course, enough to make you think about shooting near your feet, but not enough to one-shot. With shield-gating, this becomes another blanket of protection. And here's the issue: if you're getting charged at by a melee unit and you're using Opticor/Vandal, does that justify a stagger if the unit is close?

On 2020-02-28 at 8:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Removing the ability to Equip two of the same Arcane simultaneously. 
- Added the ability to Distill assembled Arcanes back into multiple unranked ones.

I don't like the top one for obvious reasons. I saw the buff, but it overall cuts into player choice and options. Which seem to be swaying like an old bridge at this point. If you're insistent on these changes, make them diminishing returns, or for one to proc/be active at a given time.

On 2020-02-28 at 8:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: The reasoning here is mainly toward the ability to equip two of the same Arcane. This reasoning is one of past inconsistency and time determining intent. There are a lot of builds that specialize the use of two Arcanes, but we want to encourage a variety instead of duplication. Arcanes are the only Upgrade system in the game that allow two of the exact same upgrade to be equipped - and we would rather players have variety than duplications. In the same way you can’t equip Amalgam Serration and regular Serration, you can’t equip multiple Rivens per weapon, or any duplication of Mods at all, Arcanes will follow. But we are making major changes to the Ranking (up from 3 to 5 with power changes). Instead of having 2 of the same Arcane with a double effect, you can now choose between 2 different Arcanes that behave (generally) at 1.5x efficacy than before. 

Meanwhile:

On 2020-02-28 at 8:21 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Sharing Sentinel Mods:
Sentinel Weapons and Warframe weapons cannot share Mods, which is to say: if you have 1 Maxed Serration Mod, your Sentinel’s Weapon cannot use it if you have a Primary Weapon with it equipped. You either switch your Sentinel Weapon to a different class (Shotgun, Melee), or acquire and max a duplicate Mod. 

We are removing this condition and now your Mods can be simultaneously equipped. 

One step forward and two steps back. I could've sworn years ago that the change above was in place and then subsequently removed for one reason or another, just to be re-introduced. Could just be confabulation.

Also casual reminder that (I) those that have arcane helmets would still like (an option) for them to be distilled into arcane form so they (I) don't have to choose between fashion and stats. Thanks.

 

^{We're currently in the year of hindsight. Let's make this time count.}

[Kentar_Evil]

Who is the mastermind behind all this horrible changes?

Steve?Scott?

WHO?!!!

 

[BR31]

i'd rather take self-dmg , than a nerf like that, it will be not explosions , but bullets with a bit of fireworks

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

@[DE]Rebecca Viral increases damage on health, does that mean armoured (Yellow bar) enemies like grineer arent effective. Will it effect only on pure health enemies (Red bar) only, or both?.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Will Exoda, Pax, and Virtuous Arcanes be getting the 5 rank treatment as well? If so, will they and Magus Arcanes be available from Operation Scarlett Spear as well? Requiring 21 of the same Arcane to fully rank it up seems rather ludicrous, especially once the event is over and players will have to resort to the current method of obtaining Arcanes again. I would have much preferred that you just buff the Arcanes across the board rather than unnecessarily increasing their rank and necessary grind/investment as they already are a long process to get as is when needing 10. You claim to not want to intensify the grind too much, yet you more than doubled the required Arcanes needed to fully rank one up all for the sake of adding two ranks onto Arcanes rather than, again, simply buffing the 3 current ranks. As such, I can't really take that comment to heart I'm afraid. This seems like a bad move in an otherwise great list of updates and improvements.

[motorfirebox]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

	New Status Effect entirely: enhanced Damage! First Viral Status Effect deals 100% additional Health damage, subsequent Viral Status add +25% for a total of 325% (capped). Note: Before Viral would halve a target’s health pool and simply refresh the duration. Now it deals 2x Damage to Health, and can scale up to 4.5x Damage on repeat Status Effects.

Does that apply through shields?

[AltairFerenc]

So let's start with that that I love the burston prime(status rifle) so I was really hyped for the status changes and after reading this I have toughts.

Viral (I literally only used viral since I discovered it) I really like that

Impact: why still stragger and now even ragdoll? Sometimes it can be hard to kill a straggered enemy if you aiming for the head and they literally crawl up and step away now they lay down too? Or worse? Take that away just leave them open or something.

Blast: so I use Silva & Aegis prime a lot, and it happens to be that o have blast on it and it's really fun that they get knocked down so I can use a ground finisher kill one and send the rest flying. Don't take that away from me. DO NOT CHANGE HOW BLAST WORKS pls.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

Going to throw out an unpopular opinion but.... Viral should prevent healing in the same way Magnetic prevents shield restoration.

It would make infested far more dangerous and interesting to fight against.

[eboomer]

2 hours ago, Gailus said:

I honestly think that this is downright false. Most of the auras are pretty good, but few of them are as straight forward as Corrosive Projection. It's easy to see how removing 30% of armor is good, but less easy to see why things like Aerodynamic or Rejuvenation are top tier in specific loadouts that need a slight tweak in one stat.

For example Garuda can use Blood Forge to make the Tigris Prime into a machine gun, but needs a constant flow of at least 1 hp to keep it going. Rejuvenation is the obvious choice.

My Banshee needs help surviving at high level but can't use Arcane Grace effectively and Rejuvenation won't cut it. So I use a hybrid heavy attack melee weapon with Life Strike in place of Drifting Contact to burst heal as necessary and use Swift Momentum to maintain my combo stacks.

The list goes on, but the point is that Corrosive Projection is just an easy choice, not the best one.

Rejuvination is a great example of how weak aura mods are.  3 Health per second healing at max rank.  At that rate, it takes about 230 seconds to heal 100% of health for most frames.  Compare that with Magus Repair, which gives 25% of health per second.  That's 50 times the healing rate.  It's basically the weakest healing in the entire game, and only of any use for something like an archwing mission where you often don't have access to any other form of healing (other than health restore pads).

The only other aura mods I think are at all worth using are Aerodynamic, Dead Eye etc. (note this stacks ADDITIVELY with base damage like serration, heavy caliber, vigorous swap, and your vex armor buff, so it's situational at best), Growing Power, Speed Holster (but really only for Mesa), and Sprint Boost.

[eboomer]

If this is how weak stacking procs is, then this is definitely a huge nerf to multi-pellet weapons with high status chance, as many have said.

That said, at the same time, with enemy armor being nerfed, I'd think there's less of a need for weapons that occupy that role in the first place, so I suspect this will make weapons like the Ignis Wraith and Amprex and such even more dominant.

[eboomer]

7 minutes ago, DeeDeetheSpy said:

Going to throw out an unpopular opinion but.... Viral should prevent healing in the same way Magnetic prevents shield restoration.

It would make infested far more dangerous and interesting to fight against.

An issue I see with that is that if you get a damage over time proc, and a viral proc, then without removing the proc itself, you could be in a position where you know you're going to die and can't do anything about it.  Granted you could just put rolling guard on literally every build (yay build diversity!), but I'm not sure how the community would react to that situation were it to become common.

Maybe it could be a reduction in healing strength?

[mikakor]

36 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

t GET USED TO IT

no. developers will be called on their BS. the nerf to arcanes changes literally nothing. NOTHING. the same arcanes will still be used. so there is nothing to test, someone with half a brain knows when something is bad. if the trash arcanes aren't changed to be more useful in all the game, they won't be used, end of discussion. it seems this subject is a little too complicated for you to understand. these changes will not achieve anything, and the same arcanes will still be used. therefor making it bad, because it didn't achieved anything it was aiming to. people don't get used to bullcrap. they fight it. if players see DE do absolute crap, they will be called out on it. that's how you make a game better. you don't submissively swallow the huge load DE is giving you, as you seem to do. you criticize. that's how you make something better. so it can improve.something you must not be familiar with.

 

[Chroia]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: The conversation surrounding Arcane Guardian led to a significant review of Armor stats on Warfarmes. The Majority of Warframes received an increase in the Armor stat to increase survivability. Compounded with Shield Gating and the numerous other changes covered, we expect a much more fair feeling playing field for all Warframes. 

Lower bonus but without AG's unreliability. Seems reasonable, now that players have a unique, neutral armor type.

 

Arcanes

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Guardian

On Rank 5: On Damaged:

15% chance for +900 Armor for 20s

Any chance it can be 30% and 600 armor, instead?

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Magus Glitch

On Rank 5: On Transference Static:

102% chance to negate Transference Static

Is this accurate? Glitch currently gives 100% at rank 3.

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have reworked Magus Cloud, since its original design was not popular

tbf, it was worse than useless, as long as you had a sliver of Op energy to Invis as you land - negating the damage at a negligible cost while not taking up a Op-Arc slot.

 

Status changes
Will we have any indication of how many stacks of an effect are on a given unit?

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Impact

Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status (from Stagger to full Ragdoll).
EDIT: We are reviewing how Ragdoll feels and may change pending feedback. EXPECT AN UPDATE TODAY ON THIS NOTE! 

The issue here is that physically launching enemies to hell is actively detrimental (assuming you're at levels where you do reasonable damage).
Stagger->Ragdoll itself is fine, esp. if it opens to ground finishers, though it is detrimental to sustained headshots. *shrug*

That said, if you added physics damage, like Frost's Snow Globe expel -> crash does damage, this would actually be beneficial.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Puncture

The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage. Subsequent Puncture Status add +5% weakening, leading to up to 75% (capped). Each Puncture Status has a duration of 6 Seconds.

Still don't love this.
With how scaling works, it's impactful only in a very narrow level range.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Blast

AoE Impact that goes through enhanced stages of Crowd Control and Knockdown with repeat Status.
Grants the Blast Status Effect to all enemies in radius.
Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% innacuracy for  for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration.

Interesting.
Not sure how helpful this is in the context of launchers - which are the main source of Blast -, though.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Corrosive

The first Corrosive Status Effect strips 26% Armor. Subsequent Corrosive Status Effects strip 6% more Armor, leading up to 80% Armor removal.

Each Corrosive Status Effect lasts 8 seconds.

Ho, hum.
I'll read the rest and circle back to this.
Off the cuff:
1) How does this interact with Corrosive Projection?
2) Guess I don't need to worry about overstripping anymore.
3) Shattering Impact?

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Radiation

The first Radiation Status Effect has an enemy deal 100% Damage to allies. Subsequent Radiation Status adds +50% damage, leading to up to 550% (capped). Each Radiation Status Effect has a duration of 12 seconds.

I'd like some inherent agro boost as well, but - with the various eHP changes - this sounds good.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Magnetic

New Status Effect entirely: enhanced Damage! First Magnetic Status Effect deals 100% additional Shield damage, subsequent Magnetic Status add +25% for a total of 325% (capped). Enemies under a Magnetic Status Effect cannot regenerate Shields. Magnetic Status Duration is now 6 seconds.

Shield damage specifically? Eh.
On the up side, this stops a random Shield Drone from repeatedly maxing a VIP's shields once depleted.
On the down side, per Damage 2.0, Magnetic pairs with heat (bonus vs. flesh, neutral vs. shields, proc affects armor for VIP proxies), Toxin (bypasses shields altogether) and Gas (damage doesn't bypass shields, proc DoTs do).
On its face, Mag pairs well with Heat, but Mag/Gas is redundant and Rad/Tox would serve just as well wrt neutralizing shield drones not to mention bypassing shields in the first place.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Viral

New Status Effect entirely: enhanced Damage! First Viral Status Effect deals 100% additional Health damage, subsequent Viral Status add +25% for a total of 325% (capped).
Note: Before Viral would halve a target’s health pool and simply refresh the duration. Now it deals 2x Damage to Health, and can scale up to 4.5x Damage on repeat Status Effects. 

Oh dear lord.
Well, at least you learned from RJ's Particle and capped it.
Guess we'll see. But I expect this to be the new go-to, given that you get big numbers in WF by stacking mults on mults.

DE:

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We think being consistent is key.

Also DE:

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Magus Elevate

On Rank 5: On Transference In:

95% chance to restore 300 Health to Warframe

...

 

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact.

So AoEs are most likely emasculated as actual damage sources.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

At a glance?
Vauban / Nidus - Launhers still work as AoE damagers.
Anyone else and AoEs become multi-target status appliers.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

we want to make sure we ship this change in a place that’s conservative in its starting point from a balance perspective.

I see.
Well, as long as this isn't implemented and forgotten about for 2+ years, that's fair I guess.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Opticor

Opticor Vandal

Battacor

Simulor

Synoid Simulor

Ferrox

Astilla

Shedu

Kuva Seer

Cyanex

Staticor

Pox

Tombfinger

Granmu Prism

Exard Scaffold

The complete removal of Self Damage does change the pace of destruction with some of the game’s most powerful weapons,

Err.
Opticor's AoE is nonexistent unless you miss completely. Punchthrough doesn't change that.
Can't speak to the Battacor's AoE, but it wouldn't make my 'most powerful weapons' list.
Simulor - Wait, how's this weapon supposed to work now? Genuinely, am I intended to 5m-hug an enemy and unload a clip in their face?
Ferrox - I genuinely never noticed that this weapon has an AoE.
Astilla - Yeah okay, that's fair.
Shedu - Sad Chroia noises
Pox doesn't care. It's all about the AoE procs anyway.
Exard Scaffold - Really? >_<

-----

  

5 hours ago, Skaleek said:

The choice to raise arcane costs to 21 to max it out was entirely unnecessary.

tbf, it's in line with the current paradigm.
1, 3 (+2), 6 (+3), 10 (+4), 15 (+5), 21 (+6).

+1 on all the rest of your post.

 

5 hours ago, Nasair said:

For railjack missions I would really like to have the corrosive nerf reconsidered. Their armor is already really high and will still be high after the changes.

Am I the only person who uses finishers or ability-armor stripping on RJ to sidestep the issue?
Genuine question, as I basically only RJ solo when I RJ at all.

  

4 hours ago, Kardesi38 said:

Just a friendly reminder of the mags augment in cgi trailer that lets her stop bullets. Still isnt in the game

What do you mean? It works just fine on the Kuva Bramma. :p

 

3 hours ago, Gailus said:

The list goes on, but the point is that Corrosive Projection is just an easy choice, not the best one.

This is true, but irrelevant (imo) as long as it takes me upwards of 30s from nav to swap around auras - same deal as with the Bane mods.
If quick-swapping mods was less of a hassle, I'd agree with you.
As it stands, specific loadouts use specific auras, but CP remains the go-to.

 

3 hours ago, ntyd1s said:

Does "Void Dash Radius" means travel distance? That'd be pretty interesting! o_O"

Seems likelier it works like Vazarin's Sonic Dash and Naramon's Surging Dash.