2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[(XBOX)Special C]

I'm a little confused while Warframe survivability is being buffed. The game's difficulty is already trivial why make it more so? I Understand the game is a power fantasy but making the game easier is definitely not something I feel like is worthy of spending time on. Just one man's opinion. I do like a lot of the changes around making more builds and play styles viable. Good stuff.

[CasualJerry]

And weapons AOE weapons with no self damage got nerfed to have stagger...

[Tenno_Aster]

11 minutes ago, RoachyToasty said:

Bruh imagine someone shoots u with a vulkar in the face and u go #*!%ing sleeping

Same effect as listening to an audiobook of Go the F--k to Sleep as narrated by Samuel L. Jackson.

[devildevil21]

2 minutes ago, CasualJerry said:

And weapons AOE weapons with no self damage got nerfed to have stagger...

Ikr? It's ridiculous. And to make it worse every AoE weapon, with self damage or not, now have a 90% dmg fall off... it's killing AoE's in warframe. Guess DE wants us to spam melee or AoE warframes to take care of the job.

[Valfaun]

not sure how i feel about the Status changes in particular at this point... they look boring. mechanically too similar to each other. also slow-firing guns might have a harder time to benefit from them. additionally, Status procs are inherently bound to damage types and thus efficiency against an enemy, so you're probably limited in which effects you can proc. e.g., using Electric damage is not only weaker than a combined element, but also generally unadvisable against Grineer. so... i think you don't usually pick a Status effect that you want to proc, but rather the Status procs that you do are... side-effects of the damage types you equip against the enemy you're up against. the new Blast proc sounds interesting, but i don't want Blast damage because it's inferior to another type. 
also Impact sounds like stackable levels of bad, so please do reconsider that. ragdolling enemies can be funny, but it's arguably tactically disadvantageous and a detrimental effect to stagger them out of your aim or entirely scatter them across the room. 

then there's the AoE change. idk... on paper, it looks like they'll be much safer to use, but also much less "rewarding". currently, you can blow up groups of enemies and sometimes blow up yourself if you're not careful (or a team mate shuffles in front of you at a bad time). with the update, you might be able to spam them more mindlessly, but the huge 90% radial falloff sounds... devastating

of course, we'll see how everything plays out, but it seems likely that further adjustments and revisions will have to be made

[Spiritian]

4 minutes ago, devildevil21 said:

Ikr? It's ridiculous. And to make it worse every AoE weapon, with self damage or not, now have a 90% dmg fall off... it's killing AoE's in warframe. Guess DE wants us to spam melee or AoE warframes to take care of the job.

Its a horde killing game, dunno why AOE is being nerfed so badly. grantid yes, direct targetting has its benefits (eidolons and bosses, even lephantis) but it makes the mission somewhat slower if aoe isnt as strong.

[XaoGarrent]

I'm gonna have a lot more money to spend once I stop buying plat. :)

[(XBOX)DaStupidOne]

Okay so if we are revising things, we need to look at mods... first up there are a ton of useless mods, things like retribution, we also have mods that take up way too much capacity for practical usage seriously why does something as useless as master thief take like 13 points, and mod real-estate, when we have 8 mod slots, and 1 exilus, if you’re lucky you might have one free slot for something that is not related ability/health/shield/armor, this means stuff like movement mods, augments, or exceptionally useful things like adaptation go unused because we have nowhere to put them.

Here’s my idea, a lot of the useless mods either need scraped or repurposed, make any mods that aren’t about abilities/armor/energy/health/shields into exilus mods so they can see more usage, adjust and rebalance the capacity cost for mods because it is all over the place and is really wack, and give all weapons and warframes an extra two normal mod slots, making a total of 10 normal slots, and add one extra slot to all warframes that can hold only augment mods but using an augment mod in it makes the augment cost no points. 

These changes will help make it so all mods feel like they make a difference by redesigning or removing nearly useless mods, it will make things more structured and consistent by allowing costs for importance to be balanced based on use, it will allow more build diversity by opening up new space that isn’t pretty much necessary for any build, and it allows players to use augment mods if they choose without being punished with the loss of a slot and lost capacity.

Final idea and this is a controversial one, prime frames are meant to be superior but a little health or energy doesn’t make them feel like anything more than a nicer looking reskin most of the time. Why? It’s because these stats don’t do much without the related mod, 50 extra energy isn’t a big difference without flow and even then it doesn’t feel like they’re at all different or superior. My proposal is to give all prime frames a second Aura slot, make it so exilus mods in the exilus slot cost no capacity on prime frames and give them a third arcane slot. Why do this? First up having a second aura means you have a greater benefit using the prime, you also have more space to work with your frame making them feel more versatile. Second the exilus slot mods costing no points, this means you can run any exilus you want without cost which opens up the door for using more expensive ones you wouldn’t run normally on a regular frame. Third is the extra arcane slot, this will give prime frames a massive boost, suddenly you’re not just getting them because they’re cooler and practically the same but because they’re a full on upgrade from the original. These changes would make prime frames feel like the step up they were meant to be instead of a carbon copy of the original, it would also give prime frames more value to obtain than they currently have, and finally it helps prime frames distinguish themselves from the regular frames. 

 

Now that we are done talking about mods, and improvements.... WHEN GHOUL-SAW DE?!?!?

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

3 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Probably will be with how hard it hits but also keep in mind 90% is the maximum fall off, meaning the damage reduction will only happen at the furthest outreach of the explosion, most of the time you shouldn't be seeing that level of fall off unless you are just trying very hard to barely hit enemies. 

No, it's not at the furthest edges, it's linear gradient from center.

2 hours ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

And I'm saying if I am wrong prove it. Telling someone that they are wrong just so you can ride your high horse doesn't make you right. 

So far the only argument I heard is "I HATE THIS CHANGE." that is not a good enough reason to make a change in a game where thousands, millions play. 

First off, you're lying, those are not the only arguments you have heard.  People have straight up given examples like the Akstiletto Prime with high impact, hybrid crit/status weapon.  It will on average with a normal build proc impact about once per shot, and fire automatically ten times a second or more.  Grakatas also apply, Snipers like the Rubico and Vulkar series which will likely proc impact once or twice on the very first shot, and many, many other weapons.

I've seen suggestions that all hits count as headshots while enemies are ragdolled, and while that would probably be way overboard (looking at you, bonus impact Kuva Nukor that I've actually got to see if it was possible) with certain weapons, it's probably closer to being reasonable to the present state of affairs.

Now, stop lying.

[Omnima]

hey, I was wondering, will there be some way to separate already rank 3 arcanes? I know many vets have spent time and/or plat to get multiple rank 3 sets for their builds (me included) and after farming over 20 arcance energizes and guardians, it does feel like I am cheated out of my efforts when i need 10-11 more for something I already had.

That could also be solved by having all maxed r3 arcanes translate to Rank 5 ofc, but there needs to be something..

[PurpleNyxPrime]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Self Damage + AoE Weapons

In addition to Self Damage being removed, some of the more powerful AOE weapons without Self Damage presently will have the Stagger added, but it should only be noticeable in cases of extreme inaccuracy on the player’s part. The Weapons include: 

Kuva Chakkurr

Opticor

Opticor Vandal

Battacor

Simulor

Synoid Simulor

Ferrox

Astilla

Shedu

Kuva Seer

Cyanex

Staticor

Pox

Tombfinger

Granmu Prism

Exard Scaffold

In the original Dev Workshop, we said:

As a result of this overall systemic change, Weapons with Stagger will be getting approximately a 20% buff in Damage, with any weapons with AOE receiving a 50% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. 

This is no longer accurate after continued testing. What we are doing now is:

No damage buffs have been added, but any weapons with AOE are receiving ~20% increase in Radius. Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt. Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

Why: Several players brought up the history of the Tonkor and we want to make sure we ship this change in a place that’s conservative in its starting point from a balance perspective. The complete removal of Self Damage does change the pace of destruction with some of the game’s most powerful weapons, so we want to make sure we can iterate upwardly instead of releasing a bonanza of explosions with no other choices. 

So you are nerfing several AoE weapons that didn't have self damage in the first place by also throwing them into the pile, not to mention that one of them is the Shedu which is a incredibly mediocre weapon that's incredibly awful to get. Nice.

Also when are you going to fix the bug that is currently making armour on warframes approx half effectiveness, because those armour changes are by far not enough to make up the difference especially since the higher armour frames aren't even getting a buff.

[MizaelChan]

I guess Tonkor is comming back then?

 

[Sahiratu]

I don't like 2 of the changes.

1- Corrosive nerf

Corrosive nerf is horrible, not because it got a timer but because 6% is way too low. Heat take out 50% armor PLUS gives dot damage AND CC... so srsly, this nerf is way to Harsh.

2- Aoe Damage

Some of them were not even that strong (they are not all bramma like) nor even used often, and some of this changes seems like nerf. Stagger on a pox? Rly?

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, Lahared said:

Meanwhile:

One step forward and two steps back. I could've sworn years ago that the change above was in place and then subsequently removed for one reason or another, just to be re-introduced. Could just be confabulation.

Based on the quotes you used I'm not sure I follow..... 

Clearly the first is talking about duplication on a single weapon EG using both Serration and Amalgam serration, which is what DE does not want to see. The second being able to apply one mod on two seperate instances without needing to farm/level an additional identical mod. 

They are literally two completely different things..... 

As far as the application of the same mod on Sentinels being a thing I don't recall but it was introduced a couple(?) years ago with Khora and Venari where Venari could equip the same mods that where already equipped to another companion without the need to farm a second set. As far as I am aware that was intentional from the start and this would simply be the logical conclusion of extending that courtesy to Sentinels. Since Sentinel weapons draw from the same mod pool as the player.

Again it in no way allows the player to double up on functionally identical mods on the same weapon which as far as I am aware was either never a thing or only a thing so briefly that I have never encountered nor heard of it, tho I wouldn't rule it out as being a brief aberration in the game that was quickly corrected. 

[EdDiesel]

Damage on Bullet Jump Mods

 

Always felt these mods could be fun with a slight boost.  Would like to see the aoe range increased at the very least.  A nice bump in damage would be very nice. A damage aura around frame during bullet jump that can affect mobs warframe bullet jumps through.

[eboomer]

I worry that you're putting a hard cap on total armor reduction.  To take the extreme case, if the squad has 4 corrisive projections an 4 co-action drifts, does that mean corrosive procs, Seeking Shuriken, etc. won't do anything?

Also, for a long time, I've wanted a 'health bar' of sorts to show HOW MUCH armor is stripped.  This would really help us see the game mechanics at work, armor is basically the only defensive stat that doesn't have a 'health bar', and now that full armor strip will be at least almost nonexistent, we don't even have the health bar color to go off anymore.

[Damocles]

Corrosive now only works to 80%? Previously we can only tell at 100% since this is when the bar turns red.

Now heat does instant 50% and stacks accumulating damage without combining 2 mods. I think corrosive needs to reach 100%

BTW, new meta is viral heat, magnetic heat and Gas electric. Heat replaces corrosive and electric is basically 100% puncture procc

[IgnisDraconis4316]

5 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

No, it's not at the furthest edges, it's linear gradient from center.

First off, you're lying, those are not the only arguments you have heard.  People have straight up given examples like the Akstiletto Prime with high impact, hybrid crit/status weapon.  It will on average with a normal build proc impact about once per shot, and fire automatically ten times a second or more.  Grakatas also apply, Snipers like the Rubico and Vulkar series which will likely proc impact once or twice on the very first shot, and many, many other weapons.

I've seen suggestions that all hits count as headshots while enemies are ragdolled, and while that would probably be way overboard (looking at you, bonus impact Kuva Nukor that I've actually got to see if it was possible) with certain weapons, it's probably closer to being reasonable to the present state of affairs.

Now, stop lying.

Or what? Just cause you think I'm lying doesn't mean I have to bend over and kiss your feet. 

And if those weapons would do that, and there is no proof that with the new system it would, use a different weapon. GOOD LORD. People mostly hate the Kraken so they use something else. Oh I guess I'm lying about that as well. I thought no one uses impact weapons because slash is king. 

People don't like the new tonkor. Guess how many I see using it....... one maybe two a month. Hell even Youtubers say not to use a weapon. So why don't you pick on someone else and stop telling me what to do as your not my mother, a dev, or anyone with any importance to me.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

This is a joke.  I have logged in once since the devstream and that was to tell my alliance leader there wouldn't be much activity coming from my clan for awhile and that was entirely due to what was stated on the dev stream.  I only saw this got posted because someone transcribed it to the warframe subreddit which I was still subbed to for some reason.

You're still nerfing Energize by adding a cooldown.  There is no other way to look at it.  You're nerfing it and all the arcanes that sucked still suck.  For most of them, their basic mechanics are what sucked.  They didn't need a numbers buff they needed a scrap and rework.  Once again, rather than provide incentive to use something else, you just nerf the top end of things.  This alone is the reason I'm on a break and won't be playing for awhile, if I ever come back.  I am so damn tired of getting constantly nerfed.  There isn't enough in this game to do outside of the power fantasy in the repeated starchart mission variants that make up 90% of your content for you to be nerfing the power fantasy as often as you have in the last 6 months.

On top of that, you're flat out lying.  "We didn't want to increase grind."  Really?  You didn't?  You more than doubled the cost to max an arcane out and in some cases like Magus Glitch it's already 100% at rank 3 but now it adds 2 more ranks.  So it's either got an extra 1% per rank for no reason and does nothing else, has an extra 1% per rank and you have to get those ranks to get the arcane revive at max rank now, or it's no longer 100% at rank 3, which is a direct #*!%ing increase to grind.  Smart money (knowing your track record) is on most arcanes not having the same effects they had at rank 3 and most of them being nerfed down as an incentive to grind back to max and play your upcoming event.  Trying to get butts back in the seats since you're hemorrhaging players because you keep doing S#&$ like this.  

A corrosive nerf to coincide with the armor nerf that, and I'm calling this now, will not be anywhere near as effective as you want to make it out to be.  It's a bone you're throwing the players that is only happening so you have a little good will to burn when you do things like nerfing corrosive and Corrosive Projection.  "They're nerfing corrosive!"  "Yeah, but they nerfed armor!"  Save it, I already hear it.

I don't know if you know this or not, but enemy damage vs enemy EHP is so ridiculous that even with huge buffs to their damage via the few abilities we have now (like high strength Nekros, and mind freak on Nyx's 1) they still barely scratch each other.  This radiation change will do nothing for most enemies.  Guaranteed.

And look!  You're trying to force a damage meta change again with the changes to magnetic.  It's honestly pretty funny that you think people will run magnetic when it doesn't help with any hp type other than shield and is massively terrible against alloy armor, which is almost the only armor the Corpus use.  Viral will be the new meta, you did it, and you'll say it was unintended eventually.

Absolutely none of these new statuses are anywhere remotely close to being strong enough to have warranted the status nerf on shotguns.  None of them.  You just flat out nerfed an entire class of weapons, since the majority of shotguns are status based.

I already touched on the fact that you're nerfing one of the only good auras in the game, corrosive projection, but the fact that you thought the other two were "necessary as they were" literally made me laugh out loud.  You sincerely thought that those other two faction auras, infested impedance and shield disruption were good?  They didn't work half the time and never worked on anything where they would have been actually useful.  They're trash auras.  90% of the auras are trash.  You didn't buff a single one of them and instead nerfed one of the only good ones.  More of the same.

And as if I didn't have enough reason to take a nice, loooong break from this game, you decided (seemingly out of spite) that massive nerfs to any and every AOE weapon needed to happen since you were being so gracious as to not make us kill ourselves with self-damage.  I can't tell you how many times BS collision with a railing that I was shooting way over killed me with a self-damage weapon.  People just wanted to stop with erroneous deaths due to getting one shot when a teammate walked in front of you or you had some BS collision.  Instead we got more knockdown in a knockdown infested game and you followed it up with a massive nerf to AOE weapons.  On top of that nerf you decided to remove the buff you said these weapons were getting. 

Every buff always comes with a nerf.  Like you trash Itzal by "look guys, we gave every single archwing Blink!" but then you just HAD to add a long cooldown and because that wasn't enough you added a stagger if you tried to use Blink before the cooldown was up.  One nerf is never enough.  One negative change doesn't satisfy, no, gotta make it worse.  You need to change your studio name to Monkey's Paw.

You people can be excited for this all you want, while they pretend to listen to their players to try and reel people back in.  All I see is nerfs, nerfs and more nerfs.  And I'm tired of it.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Nice, seems you're killing my favorite primary (Tigris Prime getting status nerfed) and secondary (Staticor now causing annoying stagger when detonated on floor).

[Damocles]

Problems:

Heat replaces corrosive

Electric replaces blast, puncture, and cold

Radiation replaces nyx

Impact is undesirable. 

Good things:

Magnetic can be used on raknoids

Viral might be broken OP. But let's see

[EdDiesel]

13 minutes ago, PurpleNyxPrime said:

Also when are you going to fix the bug that is currently making armour on warframes approx half effectiveness, because those armour changes are by far not enough to make up the difference especially since the higher armour frames aren't even getting a buff.

What bug is this? Was not aware that there was an armor bug for frames.

[RaginGoblin]

7 hours ago, Gaikki said:

I have one question: Will we get ragdolled if we shoot a missile at our feet? 

That would be fun, imagine ragdolling down the POE XD

[Mauloch]

90% Damage falloff is TOO MUCH

To kill a specific target, you will actually try to aim for him, with explosive weapons, which lets be real, most of them have an accuracy worse than me going to the toilet in the morning.On top of that other enemies caught in the radius are most likely to survive, so the reason for using them, which is to clear groups, might be obsolete. 50% was fair, even 60%, but more than that is kinda pushing. While it is true we want to have fun without blowing ourselves up, the only reason we risked using those weapons was for their efficiency at clearing an area. Take that away and people will just slowly stop using them when they find something more capable.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

While we are discussing revamping so much of the system I'd like to drop in a few concepts.

1. Impact & Ragdoll

Ragdoll needs to be either a "powerful debuff" or only happen on death. For it to happen during combat is far too inconvenient.

Ragdolled enemies should take bonus damage from all sources of impact/collision.

Gonna snip this from Reddit:

Quote

 

*Ragdolled enemies take 500% damage from collisions, a 90% chance of death if a critical area collides with an object, a 75% chance to break a limb receiving a permanent damage delt & received debuff of 10% per limb broken, & recieve a 200% damage received debuff while in ragdoll status.*

IE: If an enemy is ragdolled they should take damage from hitting walls, floors, other enemies, players, & etc. Enemies who land on critical weak spots while ragdolled have a 90% chance of say...breaking their necks/cracking their skulls open/snapping their head off.

I'd be down with something like that.

2. Redesign/Rework of Operator Mechanics

Seeing as Warframes all got a Survivability pass...Operators also need one.

With Sentients becoming an increased threat (and full on enemy faction now) Operators will become a much more utilized feature. However, they need a pass over as well.

A: Void Blast

Long overdue impo...but perhaps Void Blast needs to go & become Void Slash/Melee. Where our Operators (ala: One Handed Melee) and can do a full on combo to enemies with a Void energy  blade of some kind. CQC as an Operartr feels really bad. Which is one reason why Magus Lockdown is so highly valued atm. It's both a gtfo of jail card & helps avoid melee situations.

All other Void Blast modifiers across the schools really are self-explanatory if anything they'd be easier & more fun to apply.

Maudurai's Rising Blast can now be a "Heavy Attack" unlock & etc.

Basilisk's Gaze serves as an Operator melee range boost unlock.

The rest of Naramon, Zenurik, & Unairu's Blast modifiers stay as is.

Yeah they might need to be renamed alittle...

B. Shields

With Shield Gating becoming a feature, & Survivability being overlooked. This is long overdue. Operators should have Shields, & such a feature could be woven into Focus & make some useless/unused Focus nodes...useful. such as...

Vazarin School's Guardian Shell can be reworked to grant Operator's shields instead of being a Void Blast Shield that no one uses. The addition of Shield gating dramatically makes this more 

Vazarin's Guardian Blast could be changed to a AOE knockdown when Shields are broken.

Vazarin Void Aegis could be changed to a Shield Regen/recharge/restore rate.

C. Bullet Jump / Dive

Operator slide was a great addition to them, but Operator mobility outside of Void Dash is jarring. Granting Operators a Bullet Jump or a Dive (ie: Some form of Momentum granting forward jump/dodge that is similar to Bullet Jump) would do wonders for Operator mobility.

D. More Waybounds

This goes more in tandem with Bulletpoint A. But perhaps unlocking more Waybounds such as the suggested changes to Guardian Shell, Void Aegis, Rising Blast, and elemental modifiers to Void Blast (aka: Slash) would help boost Operator combat prowess & survivability.

Just spitballing ideas.

3. Aerial Combos & Lifted Status

I know Devil May Cry inspired a lot of the melee rework. But Lifted status feels more like a player hindrance than a boon.

Part of this is because when players jump & melee in the air they do not "float" in place while doing a melee combo.

When/if a player does an aerial melee combo they should stay up with the enemy they are juggling. Not drop like a rock.

Might be worth going over Lifted & Aerial Melee Combos. Possibly removing "Lifted" status.

4. Archwing Melee

I don't know what to suggest here. It needs homing back. Badly.

5. Stealth

It's still broken. Only sleeping enemies killed with melee takedowns count towards the Stealth Multiplier.

All guns (even silenced), & etc do not work.

As always. Thank you for these Workshops. It's great to see so many well needed changes being discussed.

Sorry to toss more chaos into the pot...but I figure this is a good chance to shine a light on these aspects.