2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

1 minute ago, HallowedFlux said:

It makes no sense for explosive weapons to do the exact same damage at every distance from the center, and then suddenly no damage outside that range.

Why do you want explosives to "make sense?" And while we're here, please tell me which other mechanics don't make sense in Warframe.

[HoloShaii]

Just now, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Please tell me which other mechanics don't make sense in Warframe.

That is not the point. Honestly, if you want every AoE weapon in the game to instanuke everything in it's radius in one shot, that's very unhealthy for the game. God forbid you'd have to shoot twice, or actually have any skill whatsoever in this game.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

2 minutes ago, HallowedFlux said:

Honestly, if you want every AoE weapon in the game to instanuke everything in it's radius in one shot, that's very unhealthy for the game. 

You're just putting random words in my mouth now. AoE weapons aren't even that strong, they're "good" at best.

It's just so strange that DE finally took out self damage... but nerfed explosive weapons so hard that they're just barely going to be worth using now. It's like when they tried to split Vacuum into 3 mods. Why does DE try to take something everything they give us something? Why can't they just make a positive change without tampering with something? Self-damage was only an annoyance at best, so nerfing AoEs when they finally removed self-damage feels more like retribution to people who complained than an honest attempt at balance.

[Drachnyn]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt. Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

So what's the point of AOE weapons (especially the ones that already didnt have self damage and will just be nerfed by this)? Are we supposed to just use melee weapons if we want to have good AoE weapons? 90% is way too much.

I guess the initial idea of 50% fall off was just a bait and switch so we would have less time to complain about this.

[Phyng0n1c_Official]

The new status changes are very disappointing. Unless you rethink your decisions, it is VERY DISAPPOINTING! No matter if Scarlet Spear or Deadlock will be enjoyable, you cannot compensate for these kind of heavy nerfs...

You know what will happen? People will entirely ignore status until you unfuc.k the situation, and use frame abilities or shattering impact to remove armor, and use gas since that didnt get totally obliterated... yet

Do you enjoy when your playerbase decreases? Cuz seems like you actively trying to kill the game.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

5 minutes ago, Phyng0n1c_Official said:

snib

Why did you censor yourself like that? Who are you trying to "trick?" Y'all are gonna wanna edit that out unless you want your message deleted.

[HoloShaii]

6 minutes ago, Phyng0n1c_Official said:

and use frame abilities or shattering impact to remove armor

Removing armor is now way less needed than previously though, the scaling has been dialed down so much that level 200 armor doesn't even come close to the level 120 armor enemies had before this update....

[Lost_Cartographer]

19 hours ago, zioxei said:

90% damage falloff on AOE weapons that have a tiny AOE radius will be absolutely garbage, even with the 20% radius increase.

This became a concern of mine too.  The astilla went from that one weird rifle I liked and made open world combat enjoyable to a less reliable version of any other rifle.  It already has ammo economy issues, rifle boxes STILL convert to half of what they should in the open world last I checked (a max shotgun ammo mutation SHOULD NOT reward 1 shell per rifle box.)  Might have been almost worth it if they kept the initial damage increase they had planned, but now?  Basically a straight nerf.

[Violette_Vandal]

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno.

If I wanted to aim, I wouldn't take an AOE weapon in the first place.

[FictonsoReal]

19 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

I'm actually curious about this: is there a way (and would it improve performance) to have an option to make damage number displays additive? Some RPGs and RPG-like games display a single number that shows the total damage dealt to an enemy, reappearing and incrementing for each bit of damage done, instead of individual damage numbers.

I've been thinking it would be helpful just for player testing (it's a bit chaotic to pick out one number among 10-12 pellets sometimes!), but if it helps performance too...

  

I also think it's important to check this thread:

And the feedback from the first proposed Damage 3.0, where a number of complaints surrounded the ragdoll attached to Impact (I think it was second to the Slash changes, but I could be wrong).

EDIT: I should also point out that this contravenes the enemy shield gating concept: Impact is effective against shields, and headshots / weakpoint shots are meant to bypass the shield gating. So the status that is effective against shields has a proc that makes an anti-shield tactic much more difficult. It doesn't mesh.

Also curious on this.
beause *showing* and  enforced debuff limit (per old wow) make a ton of difference in gameplay choices.

If there are hidden slashes still  doing damage, but not scrolling off other debuffs so when we know we need to reapply  a heat, great
but it sorta reads like "manage your debuffs, but we're making your debuffs stronger"
which doesn't work so welll in a fire and forget mission grouping style

 

[Aadi880]

Please, the AOE nerf to these weapons is way too hard

Battacor is completely well balanced. Nerfing it for the sake of "consistency" is just downright terrible to these weapons. For the love of God, please play your own game without devmode.

On top of that, that's the main damn appeal of these weapons.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

4 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

For the love of God, please play your own game without devmode.

It's like they think AoE weapons are still overpowered like they were in 2015 or whatever. People only wanted self-damage removed as a QoL change. Majorly nerfing all explosive weapons, even ones with tiny AoEs that didn't have self-damage, is not a way to keep customers happy. 

[Thundervision]

Here's a better way to balance out the current self-damage weapons in the new iteration and prevent players from mindless abuse of explosion spam at the feet:

 

[nimbukie]

I have a grand idea. If this is the case for AOE weapons the 90% drop off that is. They should apply that same concept to melee, and warframe abilities. You know for consistency.

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

Here's a better way to balance out the current self-damage weapons in the new iteration and prevent players from mindless abuse of explosion spam at the feet:

 

That's still making them all even less wieldy, because it's just slapping more duct-tape over the cracks in this overall terrible direction.

Even with self-damage in play, there's plenty of room for 'full risk' dumb-firing explosives with no arming-distance to exist alongside the more 'forgiving' ones that dud out, have a delay or are manually triggered.

Making all AOEs/explosives mediocre and having spaces where they don't even work (to say nothing of how ineffectual a risk staggering actually is) is just devaluing them further. Where risk is a thrill factor for some, that's an inconvenience factor for all.

[nimbukie]

22 minutes ago, Thundervision said:

Here's a better way to balance out the current self-damage weapons in the new iteration and prevent players from mindless abuse of explosion spam at the feet:

 

My only issue with is that many of us use abilities to negate the risk and danger of explosive weapons. Well before the patch. Everything from revenant’s shield, Inaros’ soak (high hp), vazarin void dash, and the list goes on. Others simply play it safe. Making the weapons safer at the cost of usefulness is a kick in the pants for many. it may also be that the folks who used the methods can no longer use the weapons in the previous manor even at reduced damage because of the stagger mechanic. Where they could withstand the heat of the sun unphased they now will wiggle about.....

[ILOHARTA]

no love for Nidus's armor... 😞

[DeLawrence]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Quinn David O said:

Also the high end arcane tanker build is getting hit hard without double stacking so this seems like a low key nerf to our iron-clad chubby unicorn

Dude...you're serious?

You lose 600 armor from the stack and gain another arcane slot.

I'm not even using tanker and get 100k Iron skin pretty easily...never needed more, and you will never need more.

So saying he got hit hard...is an exagerration.

[HomicidalGrouse]

4 hours ago, staranow said:

Who are you and why do you use the term fearmongering? Really why?

Because that's what it is whenever people go out there claiming that the game is dying or this is going to destroy the game or whatever else. Trying to sway people to agree with them through fear. That's fearmongering.

It's not a reasonable or productive way of criticizing something. You need to be able to articulate why you don't like something and how it could be better. Not just say "this is going to kill the game! Look, everyone is quitting already! Do what I want now!"

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, DeLawrence said:

Dude...you're serious?

You lose 600 armor from the stack and gain another arcane slot.

I'm not even using tanker and get 100k Iron skin pretty easily...never needed more, and you will never need more.

So saying he got hit hard...is an exagerration.

Hang on. Couldn't you just go Tanker 5 + Guardian 5 and have.. more, post-change? 

[Ledra]

Magus Repair

On Rank 5: On Void Mode:

Heal Warframes within 30m by 25% Health/s.

I think this should be at least 30% ^^ coz 2 of the old ones made 40%. Also maybe a bit  armor for nidus? he has no shields to get the advantage from the shield mechanic 

[Zoig]

So I realized a good solution for explosives would be to have a inner radius where it does maximum damage in that aoe and then have a outer radius where it has falloff, this is to avoid a explosive weapon always doing say, 10% less damage unless its a direct hit.

[CopperBezel]

I imagine they noticed that Repair was becoming the mandatory arcane and wanted to balance things. I mean, my operator right now has one set of Repair, but instead of a second, a set of Nourish, specifically because Nourish prevents me from getting stunned back into my frame in the period between the beginning of the transference animation and the point at which my Void mode activates, making it much more reliable. That means to me that 1) Repair is silly powerful, and 2) the % value isn't what makes it so.  

I wonder if the description on Repair should be adjusted. What it really does is heal x% of health with a 1s cooldown, not x% per second. The first chunk is free, and the description doesn't tell you so. So the new Repair will be a full heal in 3s, not 4s.

Edit: On the AoE stuff, it really feels like a universal nerf on the concept of AoE. There are plenty of weapons with very small AoE (Acceltra, Astilla, Battacor) that this change will just murder. As folks have said, a curved quadratic falloff would have been at least doable. But the weapons should have been hand tuned.

[vegetosayajin]

So...vauban is a tank now XD

[thelasttand]

il y a 59 minutes, HallowedFlux a dit :

Work like explosives work, the point of impact is where most damage is done. It makes no sense for explosive weapons to do the exact same damage at every distance from the center, and then suddenly no damage outside that range.
Also honestly for a lot of content in the game 10% damage is still going to nuke some enemies into the sky.

on low level content a machingun with punchthrought outperform AOE weapons.
on high level content beam weapons outperform AOE weapons.
BUT AOE weapons were the best CC weapon in the game. not anymore with the change of blast.
also some AOE weapons like angstrum and kulstar can't really aim for a specific target. giving those weapons radial damage falloff will just make them even more useless than they are already.
people will just use atlas and blast mobs at melee range with AOE weapons which was exaclty what DE didn't want players to do hence the selfdamage or low range detonation deactivation.
and the new corpus shield system will just push AOE weapons a bit more toward the trash can. you use a tonkor, ogris or other low firerate/magazine launcher? well now you will need to headshot the corpus if you want to kill it in one shot (if you have the damage) other wise only its shield will vanish. so you will need to launch another projectile.
you do realise that launchers already gets countered (by frost shield eximus) corpus zero right? projectile just bounce off zero's shiled.

also the 20% range bonus is actually a nerf as it will not deal much damage and give more chance to stagger you as you get closer.unless you play atlas?

you know what? Fulmin has a arcaplamsor shot that actually punchthrought. why should i use an AOE weapon when i can just play nidus, grab all the room into one blob and spam fulmin shotgun mod for a better result? or use the nukor with its beam that bounce onto other targets?

as of right now warframe has no real challenge (playing endless takes too much time and reward is meh anyway) the goal is to collect fun weapons and warframes to .. HAVE FUN. you don't farm to get geared for a special raid or mission type. you just collect stuff to have fun exterminating mobs. if you kill the fun by rending a whole weapon type lame to use then you will kill the fun for people actually playing warframe to have fun with those. who would want to farm for hours to get an innefective weapon at high level?