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Virtuous Forge/Trojan/Spike/Surge Arcanes?


Canach
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The Virtuous Forge/Trojan/Spike/Surge arcanes are applied to Amps in order to change their damage type from Void damage to Elemental damage, Heat/Viral/Puncture/Electric respectively.
Is anyone using these arcanes, if so, when/why?

Thanks! :redveil:

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Void damage is pretty much worthless against everything in normal gameplay, so I've been using the viral changing one. Just felt like a good enough all-around damage type. I think I only have mine at 75% though to avoid losing out on a couple of the random "must do void damage" mechanic things.

note that it's actively detrimental for eidolon hunts though, do not use them there.

Edited by OvisCaedo
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Since no one is answering I'm experimenting with them now. It'll take me a few days due to standing limits but as I see it: I'd avoid going Rank 3 with anything you might want to use on sentients. You need some void damage to reset weaknesses and it saves a bunch of standing. Also they are immune to procs anyways. 

The void proc of magnetize is of questionable value with amps and might be okay with inaccurate rifles or shotguns. Void is also bad against alloy armor and fossilized health. So the default damage of void is only acceptable when you choose crit arcanes and parts. I historically use Arcane Fury for everything because it helped on the Eidolon so I had it maxed but Scarlet Spear has made me question my all purpose setup (and Eidolon setup now too).

The Surge electric one is useless typically. Might be okay at high status vs corpus but with shield gating using crit is more sensible.

I can't decide yet whether Trojan viral or Forge fire is best against grineer and infested or in general and will need Rank 2 or Rank 3s of each to decide. It may heavily depend on the specific amp as Viral maxes at 10 procs but fire doesn't; something which can stack LOTS of procs might be better as fire. Infested may resist viral but them taking double damage or more may cancel it out as they are all health no armor (I'm leaning towards fire for them.

The Spike puncture might be good against sentients at Rank 2 since their ferrite armor and robotic health are both weak to it. Leaving at Rank 2 to leave void on to prevent them from adapting. And maybe okay at R3 on grineer since void is weak to armor so it'd be a big buff from -50% damage to +50% damage. But maybe it's the crit Strike arcane for the sentients instead. 

BTW: (Battalysts are the most dangerous so I'm considering them the testing standard). 

Eidolons require a different amp; 100% void makes the most sense on them since amp damage is not gonna be as good as firearm on their bodies and synovias. 

 

Tl;dr I'm staking my money on Trojan Rank 3 for an all purpose all factions amp. Sentients need additional testing but Spike might help vs Strike. Put an F in chat for Surge. 

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After waiting out the time gates to give Little Duck my stack of Lazulite Toroids I have some answers. Tests were done using three amps.

A 443, 616, and a 577. I "main" the 443 because I find the full auto ranged fire and glaive type secondary most useful. I did not bother testing my 232 I use for Eidolon hunting since I can't swap amps in the Simulacrum, so it would have really elongated testing time. These three amps are hybrid, status, and crit respectively and are designed for flexible range.

Most of the time Virtuous Trojan R3 is the winner. On level 45 enemies of any faction except Sentient it is basically a sweep. At level 80 it is the best as well but is dissapointing compared to any "normal" weapon. Trojan struggles against Corpus shields but once the shield is down the unit is slaughtered so time to kill evens out. Trojan also struggles on Infested since they resist Viral damage but the procs eventually cancel out their resistance.

Sentients are always best handled using Virtuous Spike over Strike and even on a crit focused amp. Due to Sentient's tiny heads headshot focused buffs are of dubious value but the bonus Puncture damage pays off. There is something of very interesting note. SENTIENTS DON'T ADAPT EVEN WHEN USING A R3 ELEMENT SWAP. So R3 Virtuous Spike is better than R2. Void damage is unnecessary.

Virtuous Forge was very dissapointing. I expected it to be slightly worse than Trojan but I found it much worse in most scenarios. High status amps do too little damage to make fire procs worth it and low status amps don't proc reliably enough for the armor strip. It was better against the Infested light units upsurprisingly but given how weak Chargers and Leapers are in general I wouldn't say Forge is worth it.

I didn't test Surge. 

 

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On 2020-03-04 at 10:02 PM, Canach said:

Is anyone using these arcanes

Yes.

On 2020-03-04 at 10:02 PM, Canach said:

if so, when/why?

Because they are bored...

I can't think of any situation where this is beneficial... but it is possible to kill enemies this way... 

On 2020-04-22 at 8:06 AM, (XB1)Catch Lightning said:

The void proc of magnetize is of questionable value with amps and might be okay with inaccurate rifles or shotguns.

Oh yeah that reminds me... This is the only Status Effect that didn't get reworked... Oops !!!

 

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Spike plus unairu to strip some armor work very well in most regular missions. It is not Mirage with kuva Bramma but works reasonably well on medium to high level content against grineer. Forge is pretty good as well although an occasional high level arson eximus may pose a problem. Corpus, apart from bursa and oxium ospreys, do not need any amp and can be electrocuted with zenurik alone. Infested are not hard but are more tricky to optimize imho. It is possible to use madurai for damage or zenurik for crowd control with Forge or Spike depending on the actual mission.

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17 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

finding any content where it's worth using the amp over a gun.

It is quite possible to cruise through the majority of kuva floods and sortie 3 contents with proper amp/magus setup without using any warframe powers or guns at all. High level lich mobs can be also dispatched quite efficiently. The operator falls short when dealing with the bosses or other bullet-spongy enemies. However, the whole setup works the best if using both as they do work in perfect synergy most of the time if planned and executed properly.

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8 hours ago, akots said:

It is quite possible to cruise through the majority of kuva floods and sortie 3 contents with proper amp/magus setup without using any warframe powers or guns at all. High level lich mobs can be also dispatched quite efficiently. The operator falls short when dealing with the bosses or other bullet-spongy enemies. However, the whole setup works the best if using both as they do work in perfect synergy most of the time if planned and executed properly.

It feels to me like it's a lot to ask to need 52 total arcanes to be viable. 21 for each operator arcane and 10 for an amp arcane. Meanwhile a catalyst is enough in a weapon which I won't mention to prevent DE nerfing it.

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8 hours ago, akots said:

It is quite possible to cruise through the majority of kuva floods and sortie 3 contents with proper amp/magus setup without using any warframe powers or guns at all. High level lich mobs can be also dispatched quite efficiently. The operator falls short when dealing with the bosses or other bullet-spongy enemies. However, the whole setup works the best if using both as they do work in perfect synergy most of the time if planned and executed properly.

Good Thing I made those Status Based Amps while I was grinding MR...  :)

21 minutes ago, (XB1)Catch Lightning said:

It feels to me like it's a lot to ask to need 52 total arcanes to be viable. 21 for each operator arcane and 10 for an amp arcane. Meanwhile a catalyst is enough in a weapon which I won't mention to prevent DE nerfing it.

and with some arcanes being 20 000 Standing each... I can only get one a day... so Completeing that set would take.... Roughly two weeks....

I also found out that by aggressively farming Prime Parts to sell for platinum, it would take roughly a week or less (Or More) depending on RNJesus.

Do you have get the feeling that the drop rates and grind times feel alil bit lob-sided compared to farming for prime parts ? almost everything is faster if you just buy it ? 

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Catch Lightning said:

It feels to me like it's a lot to ask to need 52 total arcanes to be viable. 21 for each operator arcane and 10 for an amp arcane. Meanwhile a catalyst is enough in a weapon which I won't mention to prevent DE nerfing it.

You need weapon, catalyst, mods, endo, forma, and time to level everything up. In many cases, you might want to get rivens, kuva to roll them or platinum to buy them if you so desire. It is not that simple overall. On the other hand, the operator needs huge amount of focus that can be acquired naturally just by playing over extended period of time and/or hunting eidolons. IMHO, these are all comparable and really a personal preference. However, both paths are fully viable and create a very nice synergy at the end point. WF has many tools at our disposal that are not mutually exclusive. It is not an alternative way to do the missions and more of a complementary aspect, a nice finishing touch if I may say so. IMO, it is not like "I can do this mission better and faster with a weapon than you can do with your operator" and more like "If I use weapons, frame powers, and operator weapon/powers, it is a whole new game out there".

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3 hours ago, akots said:

You need weapon, catalyst, mods, endo, forma, and time to level everything up. In many cases, you might want to get rivens, kuva to roll them or platinum to buy them if you so desire. It is not that simple overall. On the other hand, the operator needs huge amount of focus that can be acquired naturally just by playing over extended period of time and/or hunting eidolons. IMHO, these are all comparable and really a personal preference. However, both paths are fully viable and create a very nice synergy at the end point. WF has many tools at our disposal that are not mutually exclusive. It is not an alternative way to do the missions and more of a complementary aspect, a nice finishing touch if I may say so. IMO, it is not like "I can do this mission better and faster with a weapon than you can do with your operator" and more like "If I use weapons, frame powers, and operator weapon/powers, it is a whole new game out there".

You are very right. I just felt like it was really outside the "main" path of the game. Beyond that there aren't too many synergistic arcanes. Like Trojan doesn't have one for Viral boosts. Unairu's wisp and armor stripping are the only relible offensive tools I feel like beyond the lightning ball of zenurik since Madurai feels... "Bad" to me.

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