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Fix for Impact Status? Swap it with Blast.


(NSW)Sniperfox47
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Simple fix for impact status being broken, swap it with Blast status. Then DE, you can have your cool ragdoll physics status effect that you want to implement and players can have an actually useful status on their default IPS.

 

Impact will do a stagger like it used to and inherit the new accuracy reduction from blast. This would mean when you're using impact weapons which tend to be close quarters, and you're relying on the stagger to keep alive, any enemy who gets out of the stagger is less likely to hit you!

Blast can keep the AOE effect and can be a progressively escalating CC that escalates into full ragdoll like Impact currently does. Treat blast like a concussive explosion.

 

Best of both worlds.

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Just now, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Impact will do a stagger like it used to and inherit the new accuracy reduction from blast. This would mean when you're using impact weapons which tend to be close quarters, and you're relying on the stagger to keep alive, any enemy who gets out of the stagger is less likely to hit you!

Sounds awesome

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Made a thread about this earlier too. We really needed a feedback thread from DE to put this feedback in. Seems there are different threads by them for everything except the damage rework.

I really hope they swap impact with blast soon because I mostly use impact weapons..can't really use them at all now because can't aim when enemies are constantly ragdolling.
 

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3 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Simple fix for impact status being broken, swap it with Blast status. Then DE, you can have your cool ragdoll physics status effect that you want to implement and players can have an actually useful status on their default IPS.

 

Impact will do a stagger like it used to and inherit the new accuracy reduction from blast. This would mean when you're using impact weapons which tend to be close quarters, and you're relying on the stagger to keep alive, any enemy who gets out of the stagger is less likely to hit you!

Blast can keep the AOE effect and can be a progressively escalating CC that escalates into full ragdoll like Impact currently does. Treat blast like a concussive explosion.

 

Best of both worlds.

I support this. I would even be in favor of completely removing any stugger effect from Impact, just accuracy debuff is fine.

Right now weapons like Grakata or Gorgon are unusable without -Impact. Even worse on weapons with forced Impact procs like Nagantaka.

 

EDIT: Enemies fall as soon as Impact reaches 5 stacks. The worst part is, when they get up they still have 5 stacks, so any additional Impact proc will send them back on the ground.

Edited by ShortCat
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Impact : "Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status (removed previous change of adding Ragdoll as maximum Stagger consequence)."

Add that the attaque that proc impact inflict immediately 80% of its damage as additional impact damage.

(as comparison, slash is 245% of the damage as true damage in 6 seconds)

 

Puncture : "The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage. Subsequent Puncture Status add +5% weakening, leading to up to 75% (capped). Each Puncture Status has a duration of 6 Seconds."

Make that it also increase taken damage :

"The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage and take 30% more damage. Subsequent Puncture Status add +5%, leading to up to 75% (capped) less damage deal and more damage taken. Each Puncture Status has a duration of 6 Seconds."

(even with full stack, it would increase less the damage than the first stack of viral. but the 30-75% would also work on shield.) 

 

Blast : "Grants the Blast Status Effect a single target. Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% inaccuracy for  for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration."

Make that the attack that proc Blast deal 20% of its damage to all other target in 7 meter radius, and also apply the accuracy reduction to them. 

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10 hours ago, taiiat said:

Blast is basically useless currently so, sure. go nuts.

Yes that what I have been saying, again the crybabies no the forms that dont get the game ruined a ok proc that actually had its uses especially on AOE weapons, and make DE replace it before we have a chance to test, with wores cc so that people have easier at "hitting heatshot"???  Knocking enemies down is better that them doing less damage be hitting os less cause it a 100% damage reduction 

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3 hours ago, aspeedninja said:

Yes that what I have been saying, again the crybabies no the forms that dont get the game ruined a ok proc that actually had its uses especially on AOE weapons, and make DE replace it before we have a chance to test, with wores cc so that people have easier at "hitting heatshot"???  Knocking enemies down is better that them doing less damage be hitting os less cause it a 100% damage reduction 

I mean, when did people cry about it on blast?

Blast is the place it actually makes sense. It's a combo element and the only weapons where it is default are explosive weapons where you don't care about accuracy anyways.

Impact is what everyone is *@##$ing about because you can't get away from it since almost everything has IPS, and many of those weapons are precision weapons that it screws with.

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Completely agree; swap them and bring the ragdoll back to blast after. Since you need multiple stacks to trigger ragdoll and most blast weapons are slow firing, you would have to be intentionally modding for a ragdoll effect, and it would be easy to avoid doing so if you didn't want blast to ragdoll (via less status or more status types to dilute proc pool).

It would be very thematically fitting for blast weapons and fun to use sometimes; blow up a room before you enter and then go in there and clean up the scattered, disoriented enemy.

Impact can stagger as it does and reduce enemy accuracy; this would be fine. As it is now, regularly knocking guys down with an automatic rifle is pretty annoying and unavoidable. It's way easier to knock a guy down with an automatic rifle regularly than it would be for a blast proc to stack and cause ragdoll on your regular ol' blast launcher weapons.

Granted, you could put blast on a high status auto rifle and get a bunch of goons ragdolling everywhere, but again, that would be pretty intentional and not something that annoyingly can't be helped, like impact on an auto rifle knocking guys down.

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2 hours ago, Fiddlestixxx said:

Since you need multiple stacks to trigger ragdoll and most blast weapons are slow firing, you would have to be intentionally modding for a ragdoll effect, and it would be easy to avoid doing so if you didn't want blast to ragdoll (via less status or more status types to dilute proc pool).

but why would you want Blast to need to be stacked a bunch to actually do the thing people went from it? especially since most Weapons that have it the most are low Fire Rate and such if they have to stack it a bunch then.... they can't use the effect.

it's fine for Blast to knockdown on the first application. you can have the stacking make a larger and larger Radius that Blast knocks other Enemies down instead.

Edited by taiiat
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8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

but why would you want Blast to need to be stacked a bunch to actually do the thing people went from it? especially since most Weapons that have it the most are low Fire Rate and such if they have to stack it a bunch then.... they can't use the effect.

it's fine for Blast to knockdown on the first application. you can have the stacking make a larger and larger Radius that Blast knocks other Enemies down instead.

The original proposal was that blast is an AOE proc. So you hit enemy 1 with it, it staggers nearby enemies. Hit enemy 2 it knocks down the rest. Hit enemy 3 now they go full ragdoll.

 

If you ragdoll them right of the bat, you knock them out of the radius of the explosive weapons.

 

Proccing blast (or any elemental status) consistently like that should be way easier now that IPS no longer has a 4x priority.

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

The original proposal was that blast is an AOE proc. So you hit enemy 1 with it, it staggers nearby enemies. Hit enemy 2 it knocks down the rest. Hit enemy 3 now they go full ragdoll.

If you ragdoll them right of the bat, you knock them out of the radius of the explosive weapons.

Proccing blast (or any elemental status) consistently like that should be way easier now that IPS no longer has a 4x priority.

doesn't change that Explosive Weapons are where Blast is seen the most and they are not that well suited for stacking Status Effects so much as getting them at all. and i said Knockdown, i didn't even say the word Ragdoll in my Post.

you could have stacking it Ragdoll and/or increase Radius around each affected Enemy, but the first application knocking Enemies down is fine.

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4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

doesn't change that Explosive Weapons are where Blast is seen the most and they are not that well suited for stacking Status Effects so much as getting them at all. and i said Knockdown, i didn't even say the word Ragdoll in my Post.

you could have stacking it Ragdoll and/or increase Radius around each affected Enemy, but the first application knocking Enemies down is fine.

Because reimplementing a whole new status effect would be work intensive and not particularly viable use of resources on DE's side? Which is why I don't get people pushing for DE to add some new animation stun effect for every enemy to impact.

 

On the other hand, they were already working on an AOE escalating CC proc for blast. So they already have that initial proposal and can fall back on it. And impact is just a matter of gutting the current blast proc and combining it on top of the old impact proc.

 

Drastically simplifies DE's scripting/programming work and makes it a lot more viable for them to actually implement.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

-snip-

still literally not anything i've even asked for or suggested makes sense for Blast Status.
it's really simple. Knockdown, wider Knockdown, Ragdoll. it's a 'progression' that make sense for Blast and doesn't just greatly nerf Weapons with innate Blast Damage (of which are almost all low hits/second).

and besides, the less awful thing to do if Impact Stagger stays (which is ok that it does, because a little bit of CC doesn't hurt, people can just aim), stacking Impact instead of doing dumb stuff like throwing the Enemy around the room, can make them progressively recover more slowly from the Stagger.

 

why are you pinging me about things i haven't said or asked for.

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

still literally not anything i've even asked for or suggested makes sense for Blast Status.
it's really simple. Knockdown, wider Knockdown, Ragdoll. it's a 'progression' that make sense for Blast and doesn't just greatly nerf Weapons with innate Blast Damage (of which are almost all low hits/second).

and besides, the less awful thing to do if Impact Stagger stays (which is ok that it does, because a little bit of CC doesn't hurt, people can just aim), stacking Impact instead of doing dumb stuff like throwing the Enemy around the room, can make them progressively recover more slowly from the Stagger.

 

why are you pinging me about things i haven't said or asked for.

Because this entire thread is about an *EASY* way for DE to fix both impact and blast, and the things you are suggesting are *not* easy to implement. I'm telling you, repeatedly, that the things you *are* suggesting miss literally the whole point of this thread,

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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10 hours ago, aspeedninja said:

Yes that what I have been saying, again the crybabies no the forms that dont get the game ruined a ok proc that actually had its uses especially on AOE weapons, and make DE replace it before we have a chance to test, with wores cc so that people have easier at "hitting heatshot"???  Knocking enemies down is better that them doing less damage be hitting os less cause it a 100% damage reduction 

You don't want to CC an Exilus unit, you want them dead, especially when 2-3 more are on the way and the Aura's stack. A better solution would be to cause enemies to 'flinch' on Impact procs, making them stop firing for 1 second, not a flamboyant dance like it used to be and certainly not knocked down completely, it just look silly.

Edited by Morthal
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9 minutes ago, Morthal said:

You don't want to CC an Exilus unit, you want them dead, especially when 2-3 more are on the way and the Aura's stack. A better solution would be to cause enemies to 'flinch' on Impact procs, making them stop firing for 1 second, not a flamboyant dance like it used to be and certainly not knocked down completely, it just look silly.

Sometimes things aren't for meta purposes. I don't think anybody's going to argue that blast was meta before. That being said there are many people who like to play with the ragdoll effects and having it on a fairly rare combo element means it impacts people who dislike it as little as possible. It also fits thematically on the AOE weapons where it's already present, and serves as an indirect nerf on their ability to just spam an enemy.

Overall knockdown/ragdoll has a place in a casual power fantasy game like this. It's just not on a core stat that every weapon is forced to fight with.

 

Edit: To be clear, I just want the thing dead. I'm not a player who enjoys Blast. But there's no denying there are players who do.

Edited by (NSW)Sniperfox47
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5 hours ago, taiiat said:

but why would you want Blast to need to be stacked a bunch to actually do the thing people went from it? especially since most Weapons that have it the most are low Fire Rate and such if they have to stack it a bunch then.... they can't use the effect.

it's fine for Blast to knockdown on the first application. you can have the stacking make a larger and larger Radius that Blast knocks other Enemies down instead.

Oh no I'm with you on that. I mean (because I'm under the impression this is how Blast was before) initial Blast proc should be knockdown, but for stacked procs it could cause ragdoll (for explodey effect). Most people will probably just want Blast for CC, so the ragdoll is more for lols or if it's desired to break up a group for some reason. So I was saying ragdoll is something you'd have to be deliberately modding for, not knockdown.

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8 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Because this entire thread is about an *EASY* way for DE to fix both impact and blast, and the things you are suggesting are *not* easy to implement. I'm telling you, repeatedly, that the things you *are* suggesting miss literally the whole point of this thread,

Knockdown is literally what Blast Status did before and something that almost every Enemy in the game has been susceptible to since 2012, and a Ragdoll effect is something that almost every Enemy in the game has been susceptible to since 2012.

what are you smoking that Knockdown progressing to Ragdoll isn't literally the simplest option and also exactly what anyone would want from Blast.

Edited by taiiat
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7 hours ago, taiiat said:

Knockdown is literally what Blast Status did before and something that almost every Enemy in the game has been susceptible to since 2012, and a Ragdoll effect is something that almost every Enemy in the game has been susceptible to since 2012.

what are you smoking that Knockdown progressing to Ragdoll isn't literally the simplest option and also exactly what anyone would want from Blast.

You didn't talk about a progression to ragdoll... You talked about a progressing AOE that increases... Which would require rescripting the entire current effect.

 

The scaling CC AOE effect on the other hand is literally what they had already announced for the status changes, and is literally what I mentioned in my first post. And several times since. So yes that is the simplest option. But I've repeatedly pointed that out and you've repeatedly said that has nothing to do with what you're saying.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

You didn't talk about a progression to ragdoll... You talked about a progressing AOE that increases... Which would require rescripting the entire current effect.

 

The scaling CC AOE effect on the other hand is literally what they had already announced for the status changes, and is literally what I mentioned in my first post. And several times since. So yes that is the simplest option. But I've repeatedly pointed that out and you've repeatedly said that has nothing to do with what you're saying.

yes.... affected targets having an increased AoE Knockdown. the same thing that Blast already did, but escalating. and then you brought up Ragdoll, which is a great addition to add onto that progression as the Blast Status stacks.
you know, simple stuff that has existed in the game since the dawn of time.

but nah, that's a massive amount of work to have, you have to invent the Industrial Revolution and the Computer Age first!

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16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

but escalating. 

Yes. Which is not the same effect. From a high user level they may seem the same, but for a script that's existed for many years and likely has many hardcoded values in it, it likely means redesigning the status effect from the ground up. Which they've already done for blast. Twice.

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that's rich. TIL that Integer++ and Multiplying values together is extremely complicated stuff.
k.

that's it, once i figure out how to apply Addition and Multiplication, i'll be able to solve the Energy crisis, it'll be a global breakthrough.

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