Anyone notice new patch change with Phantasma

[BNKER]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

??

The status chance is the same, with or without multishot mods.

For Phantasma the new system should be a massive buff, going from 12 guaranteed statuses per second to 14x12 possible statuses per second at 24% chance each.

What I meant is that by what I felt just now with all status mods equipped, it clearly made me felt an absolute nerf. 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Before multi shot changed status and damage ui numbers.

[Ploidz]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Before multi shot changed status and damage ui numbers.

The situation isn't even about multishot. This whole 14 vs 5 discussion is off course. Here's the status shotgun with nothing bus status mods on.

It's bugged, the did the nerf without the accompanying adjustment of "x3 or more". It is a shotgun.

 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Just now, Ploidz said:

The situation isn't even about multishot. This whole 14 vs 5 discussion is off course. Here's the status shotgun with nothing bus status mods on.

It's bugged, the did the nerf without the accompanying adjustment of "x3 or more". It is a shotgun.

 

Phantasma is a beam weapon 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

But use shotgun mods

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Did phage get same treatment as Phantasma? As in no 3x status buff.

Edited March 6, 2020 by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, BNKER said:

What I meant is that by what I felt just now with all status mods equipped, it clearly made me felt an absolute nerf. 

Not really sure how that is possible unless your luck is horrible.

Old Phantasma capped out at one status per fire rate. With a fire rate of 12 it would cap at 12 statuses. At 100% status that would be 12 guaranteed statuses.

New phantasma with the status in the build posted sits at 70 possible statuses per second with the baseline 5 beams, all with a 24% chance each. With the multishot stats from the build posted you are suddenly looking at 168 possible statuses per second with a 24% chance each. That is an avarage of 42 statuses per second compared to the old guaranteed 12.

There may be a bug though where the game treats it as a beam weapon still, where the 4 extra baseline beams aswell as any others added through multishot are just treated as multishot on normal beam weapons i.e not being able to proc statuses.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Not really sure how that is possible unless your luck is horrible.

Old Phantasma capped out at one status per fire rate. With a fire rate of 12 it would cap at 12 statuses. At 100% status that would be 12 guaranteed statuses.

New phantasma with the status in the build posted sits at 70 possible statuses per second with the baseline 5 beams, all with a 24% chance each. With the multishot stats from the build posted you are suddenly looking at 168 possible statuses per second with a 24% chance each. That is an avarage of 42 statuses per second compared to the old guaranteed 12.

There may be a bug though where the game treats it as a beam weapon still, where the 4 extra baseline beams aswell as any others added through multishot are just treated as multishot on normal beam weapons i.e not being able to proc statuses.

I now believe op statin Phantasma didn't get status buff shotgun received. Since Phantasma uses shotgun mods.

[BNKER]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Before multi shot changed status and damage ui numbers.

Before the patch the shotgun was 37% chance for every beam (in which case 3 status mods will enhance that every beam got 100% chance to apply status and this mechanism is for all shotguns). After it became 7% for every beam. That's that we tried to say.

[Ploidz]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Phantasma is a beam weapon 

... so it being a beam weapon it should have not been touched? Or is it beam weapons are supposed to have low as dirt status chances? What's the point of mentioning it's a beam weapon? Tell me more.

Some beam weapons, with workable crit well above 3% btw.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

1 minute ago, BNKER said:

Before the patch the shotgun was 37% chance for every beam (in which case 3 status mods will enhance that every beam got 100% chance to apply status and this mechanism is for all shotguns). After it became 7% for every beam. That's that we tried to say.

Thats 

 

1 minute ago, Ploidz said:

... so it being a beam weapon it should have not been touched? Or is it beam weapons are supposed to have low as dirt status chances? What's the point of mentioning it's a beam weapon? Tell me more.

Some beam weapons, with workable crit well above 3% btw.

Beams are status monsters at cost of ammo efficiency 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Phage and Phantasma are hybrids there technically beams but uses shotgun mods. Phage is an ovious beam shotgun, did phage get the shotgun buff.

[Ploidz]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Thats 

 

Beams are status monsters at cost of ammo efficiency 

This Phantasma is no status monster now, even with good status mods. I tested it, it's not worth using for status. The weapons in that screen shot have a lot more base status the lowest being the quanta. For status you may as well get a Kohm, or whatever else. If this is the way it's meant to be it's as good as dead for me.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Just now, Ploidz said:

This Phantasma is no status monster now, even with good status mods. I tested it, it's not worth using for status. The weapons in that screen shot have a lot more base status the lowest being the quanta. For status you may as well get a Kohm, or whatever else. If this is the way it's meant to be it's as good as dead for me.

Corrosive status was nerfed along with enemy armour, try a different status like viral or toxin

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Viral is now a damage multiplier so proc those and you can out damage corrosive 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

It you want just lots of procs increase fire rate is more efficient.

[Ploidz]

Someone asked about Phage, I saw some people in the reddit thread saying their phage is fine. I looked it up in the game and it seems fine. People are hitting 100% apparently, or maybe it too is a glitch. I'll just be waiting until the dust settles.

 

[shut]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

??

The status chance is the same, with or without multishot mods.

For Phantasma the new system should be a massive buff, going from 12 guaranteed statuses per second to 14x12 possible statuses per second at 24% chance each.

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not really sure how that is possible unless your luck is horrible.

Old Phantasma capped out at one status per fire rate. With a fire rate of 12 it would cap at 12 statuses. At 100% status that would be 12 guaranteed statuses.

New phantasma with the status in the build posted sits at 70 possible statuses per second with the baseline 5 beams, all with a 24% chance each. With the multishot stats from the build posted you are suddenly looking at 168 possible statuses per second with a 24% chance each. That is an avarage of 42 statuses per second compared to the old guaranteed 12.

There may be a bug though where the game treats it as a beam weapon still, where the 4 extra baseline beams aswell as any others added through multishot are just treated as multishot on normal beam weapons i.e not being able to proc statuses.

I feel like there's been some confusion here.

The Phantasma's beam weapon mechanics have NOT changed at all. At base, it's always had 5 beams (14 with Hell's Chamber) and 12.00 fire rate. But, no matter how many beams are touching an enemy, it will only tick once (and therefore proc up to once), with the damage from each beam simply being added up. 
This is still the case as of U27.2.1, and can be easily tested in the Simulacrum. Multishot does not affect Phantasma's proc rate.

 

So, this is a summary of the unmodded Phantasma's changes:

• BEFORE: 37% SC per tick, times 12 ticks per second. (This is assuming all five beams hit. A single beam would only have 8.83% SC at base. Of course, this means that Phantasma gets a sharp improvement in performance once it hits 100% Status.)
• AFTER: 7.4% SC per tick, times 12 ticks per second. (This is if any number of beams hit. One beam, five beams, doesn't matter-- it produces a single tick of damage, with 7.4% SC.)
  
  For comparison, the Furis has 12.0% SC per tick, times 10 ticks per second.
  For comparison, the Viper has 11.0% SC per tick, times 14.38 ticks per second.
  For comparison, the Kraken has 13.0% SC per tick, times 4.42 ticks per second (during burst). 
  All three of these weapons also have better Crit stats than the Phantasma. Let that sink in.

 

~~ tl;dr ~~

Phantasma has been destroyed.
If DE corrects its Status Chance calculation and gives it the intended 22.2% SC per tick (because they literally just forgot to triple the number), it will be much better than it is now... but still barely half as good as before.
And considering that it has always been capped at 1 tick per "fire rate" (unlike other shotguns), it really shouldn't have been nerfed at all.

Edited March 6, 2020 by SortaRandom

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

 

I feel like there's been some confusion here.

The Phantasma's beam weapon mechanics have NOT changed at all. At base, it's always had 5 beams (14 with Hell's Chamber) and 12.00 fire rate. But, no matter how many beams are touching an enemy, it will only tick once (and therefore proc up to once), with the damage from each beam simply being added up. 
This is still the case as of U27.2.1, and can be easily tested in the Simulacrum. Multishot does not affect Phantasma's proc rate.

Yeah I wasnt fully up to date on how phantasma used to work, couldnt remember if it was just a thick beam like ignis or if it actually counted as a shotgun beam.

This would explain why it is in such a poor state now since it is bound by both the new shotgun system and the beam system when it comes to procs. DE should either rethink and make it work fully like a shotgun or fully like a beam.

I'm not really sure why they changed it to begin with since 100% status on it under the old system didnt make it work much differently from a normal beam weapon with 100% status and multishot, like Nukor for instance since the extra beams couldnt proc extra statuses eitherway.

Even if the status chance gets increased, the new Phantasma will be terrible aslong as it abides the laws of beam weapons while also being a shotgun.

[Ploidz]

They fixed it. Gave it a x3 boost now. Current base is 22.2, it was 7.4.

[Vahenir]

Just too bad it applies status slower than other beams weapons. During my testing it felt like my phantasma with 62% status chance per projectile applied less status effects than my synapse at 28% status chance. And something like the zhuge prime just blows the phantasma out of the water entirely.

[BNKER]

33 minutes ago, Ploidz said:

They fixed it. Gave it a x3 boost now. Current base is 22.2, it was 7.4.

The original build with magnetic and gas becomes less effective even with the new hot fix.

[Ploidz]

38 minutes ago, Vahenir said:

Just too bad it applies status slower than other beams weapons. During my testing it felt like my phantasma with 62% status chance per projectile applied less status effects than my synapse at 28% status chance. And something like the zhuge prime just blows the phantasma out of the water entirely.

I just spent a forma in mine to adjust my build to test. If it isn't as good I'll just be glad that it's no longer 7.4% and move to another weapon.

7 minutes ago, BNKER said:

The original build with magnetic and gas becomes less effective even with the new hot fix.

Apparently gas is just bad right now.

[Vahenir]

It sucks having to just swap it for something else as it was my favorite weapon in the game. Nothing really comes close to it other than maybe the ignis (which i find boring), but with its status application pretty much nuked ill be forced to. Guess i should just get my hands on a bramma or stick to the zhuge prime.

[KommandantViy]

Even with the "fix" the phantasma has gone from viable to D tier. It's not useless, but it is still definitely far weaker than it was before the update.

 

I used to be able to kill a level 100 corrupted heavy gunner with 1.5 magazines, now it takes 4-5.

 

From testing, it seems like the issue may be that it's proc/second is capped somehow? Using shotgun spazz instead of shotgun savvy, my status chance goes from about 80% per beam (if that's even accurate) to 62% per beam, but I get less procs/second despite burning through the magazine twice as quickly. Before, I do not believe it was capped, as one magazine at that speed would easily red-bar an armored enemy.

Edited March 7, 2020 by KommandantViy