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[DE]Rebecca

[PC] Mainline Post Launch Status: March 11 Update!

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Test results: As expected...

Regular Ogris only has Blast Damage, and since mods like these
latest?cb=20171007145335happen to not be usable outside of Conclave, you can't even give it Impact.

The Kuva Ogris, funnily enough does have Impact...on ''impact'' only. 
What does this mean? It means you will only proc Impact, using the Kuva Ogris, if you hit an enemy directly. Caught in the eplosion radius? 'Tis but a scratch.

 

Explain to me your logic here DE, please. What made you think, that an RPG should not be capable of knocking it's target off-balance...
Unless said target is yourself of course, because that makes sense.

Solution: Revert the Blast status proc change pronto! Buff it even, as an apology to not only people like me who use it, but to the laws of physics as well!
Bonus solution: Do the above^ and give the accuracy debuff to Impact procs, i.e. Impact now staggers targets and makes them less accurate.

Quote

I am waiting.

 

Und die wait continues.

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One thing I’ve noticed in terms of difficulty is that most enemies don’t have an answer for hardly anything a player does. This makes sense, given the power fantasy Warframe shoots for, but at high levels of play, say R5 Lich missions, enemies still just rush headlong at the player. The recent addition of the Elite Shield Lancer is a great example of one such answer. No amount of punch through can pierce their shields, so you’re forced to stun them or flank. I think an increase in enemies that require a tactical response (at high levels) could benefit those who want more difficult play, while allowing casual players to maintain their difficulty.

For example, if the enemy level is 80 or higher, an elite heavy gunner may instead spawn as a heavy gunner captain, wielding a shield alongside a gorgon, and increasing the damage output of nearby grineer, forcing the player to switch focus and either take cover or stun them (maybe with diminishing returns like with Demolysts).

I know something like that would take a while to implement, so here’s another option for players who complain about the game being too easy: don’t use abilities or items that make it easy. Use an AR instead of that Bramma. Don’t bring restores if you think energy is too accessible. If you try to make the gameplay as easy as possible, it’s kinda on you that it got that easy. Still too easy? Start unequipping mods. Some of the funnest gameplay I’ve had is from purposely making the game hard on myself.

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Also, please stop sugarcoating nerfs by adding meh buffs like 20% extra radius on top of 90% falloff ratio for aoe weapons. Just, for once be honest and say you are nerfing them due to other aspect toning down gameplay difficulty. If you are open and honest to the community they'd welcome it regardless of the initial backlash and they'd put more proper feedback to prove either these nerf are acceptable or too much. Sugarcoating only makes us trust less of you.

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People already said this, but the stagger on Amps is a bit excessive. Amp parts whose explosion is nearly unavoidable (Propa Scaffold in particular) makes this apparent. This makes Eidolon hunting more time consuming than normal.

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These changes have made status weapons significantly worse in comparison to crit ones.

  • Crit weapons benefit more from having to deal with less armor since they have a harder time reducing it.
  • Status weapons get to proc slash less often, crit weapons still have hunters munitions.
  • Crit weapons get more out of the 1 status effect that was significantly buffed since viral multiplies their crits and they apply slash more easily.
  • Other meaningful damage increases status effects were nerfed which hurts status weapons more.

You need to rethink a lot of the changes if you really intended for them to bring status weapons up to par with crit ones instead of just wanting to nerf them.

 

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Viral is a tad too powerful, but it actually gives damage to some useless weapons, and that's without a riven, so I don't really know what to think about that.
It sure is nice to use weapons that used to be useless past lvl40-50 ennemies.

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Posted (edited)

Anybody else currently not able to use anything but the "Like"-vote on the forums comments?

No addons on my side that do interfere, am on most recent FireFox version.

Edited by TBB.
typos
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Just now, TBB. said:

Anybody else currently not able to use anything but the "Like"-vote on the forums comments?

No addons on my side that do interfere, am on most recent FireFox version.

They disabled all the other options in the forum software.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Ham_Grenabe:

They disabled all the other options in the forum software.

Oh, didn't read that. Where can i read on that, and is there a why given?

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Just now, TBB. said:

Oh, didn't read that. Where can i read on that, and is there a why given?

They're all just basically "likes" anyway, so they did away with them.

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Just now, Ham_Grenabe said:

They're all just basically "likes" anyway, so they did away with them.

Were they though? I will really miss the satisfied and applaud. I guess i was the only one that really took the time to consider my reaction to a comment. 😓

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Remember folks, the Grineer are supposed to be stupid. Stupid enough that jokes are made about it. Their clones are bred for bravery and willingness to fling themselves into battle, not intelligence. Taking this into consideration I'm not sure the AI should be smarter, at least for the Grineer. There are lots of IRL examples of opposing forces where one side flung themselves (or were forced to fling themselves) into battle even though they knew they'd be mowed down by their enemies. I won't name any, because no doubt it would trigger someone into an apoplectic fit. And as fun as that would be, I don't want to get banned for it.

And the Infested are even dumber than the Grineer. IMO the Corpus and Sentients are the only enemies who should behave in an intelligent, tactical fashion.

In many ways I think the current AI represents the average Grineer clone soldier pretty well. Unfortunately, that doesn't lend itself very well to high difficulty levels.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Ham_Grenabe:

They're all just basically "likes" anyway, so they did away with them.

Much appreciated. Thanks for the pointer. ❤️

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1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

Were they though? I will really miss the satisfied and applaud. I guess i was the only one that really took the time to consider my reaction to a comment. 😓

That was the "why" given. They clearly were meant for different things, but DE only looked at the reputation score boost they gave (which was all the same). 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hi all Tenno - we have just passed 24 hours post launch (only half of which are actual working hours, but all of which are playing hours ;)) and we have plans for a Hotfix today to address bugs and balance. You can expect that to land around 2 pm ET today on PC!

What may not be included (time permitting) but we do plan to address and review after more playtime:

- Launcher AOE
As indicated in the notes, we started conservative. We hope to have some tweaks in today’s Hotfix and will work toward that goal.
- Damage Types / Status Effects
Impact and Gas are under the closest review right now, expect changes to Impact to come first!
- Too easy vs. Too hard?
If you find yourself having conversations about difficulty, please link them here or let us know your reactions to this topic - we have seen it discussed! 
- General Review + Double Affinity Weekend
There was so much in this Mainline that it’s hard to encapsulate the Hotfix plans post launch, but hop on this weekend and enjoy Double Affinity as a way to level your gear faster! We will have more notes on our plans next week - we are reviewing everything! Just because it is not on this list does not mean we are not reviewing. 

Thanks all - Red Text will appear today, and we’ll be working away toward Hotfixes near and far!

Feedback Thread Reminder Links:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bug Report Megathread:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171888-warframe-revised-bug-report-megathread-read-the-first-post/


General Megathreads: 
Shield Gating: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171898-warframe-revised-shield-gating-megathread/
Armor, Health & Shield Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171894-warframe-revised-armor-health-shield-changes-megathread/
Arcane Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171899-warframe-revised-arcane-changes-megathread/
100x Restore Blueprint: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171907-warframe-revised-100x-restore-blueprint-megathread/
Railjack Onboarding Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171890-warframe-revised-railjack-onboarding-changes-megathread/
Infested Damage: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171896-warframe-revised-infested-damage-megathread/
AI Aimbot Change: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171897-warframe-revised-ai-aimbot-change-megathread/


Warframe and Weapon Megathreads:   
Removing Self-Damage / Stagger: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171900-warframe-revised-removing-self-damage-stagger-megathread/  
Titania Changes & Vauban Tweak: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171903-warframe-revised-titania-changes-vauban-tweak-megathread/  
Sentinel Mod Sharing: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171909-warframe-revised-sentinel-mod-sharing-megathread/
>100% Status Chance / Shotgun: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171911-warframe-revised-100-status-chance-shotgun-megathread/
Status Chance Mod Buff: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171912-warframe-revised-status-chance-mod-buff-megathread/


Art / UI Megathreads:
UI Quality of Life Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171906-warframe-revised-ui-quality-of-life-changes-megathread/
Grenade Marker Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171913-warframe-revised-grenade-marker-megathread/
HDR Visual: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171918-warframe-revised-hdr-visual-megathread/
Deferred Rendering: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171919-warframe-revised-deferred-rendering-megathread/


Mission Megathreads: 
 Kuva Lich Murmur Change & Fix: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171916-warframe-revised-kuva-lich-murmur-change-fix-megathread/
 Mission Reward Cleanup: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171905-warframe-revised-mission-reward-cleanup-megathread/
Excavation Scaling Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171901-warframe-revised-excavation-scaling-megathread/


 

Ok, after experiencing the new face of conclave after what you did with PvE, It boiled down again, to another thing with PvE changes bleeding into PvP.

Combat in eyes of many feels slugginsh. Shield gating created even bigger gap between pro players and total noobs like me. Why you would say? Well, the answer is very simple.

You punish people that aim bodyshots, which should have been a positive feedback ("yay you hit him, he will die soon" "...oh wait"), while pro people can, and for very long time, were able to do consistent headshots with whatever arms you have given them.

Headshots bypass shieldgates, while very little people can land headshots. Meanwlie people that play regularly and would bodyshotted normally, are punished since they are gated from dealing any damage to oponent.

This only deepen skillgap in that part of the content. Please revisit your decision about it in there, or make it lass punishable. At the moment it is the same bull*@$(^AMP as 100% damage block from melee weapons.

Some elemental statuses are BUSTED in Conclave with recent update. You forgot that wepons force proc status effects there, of a few different procs, AT 100% CHANCE. Revisit this in regards to that content, please. I would like to enjoy competition, not s)@$!show.

Create additional megathread with how recent changes affected conclave, this will be best thing to gather feedback.

Edited by Neuroszima
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I really don't wanna come off as ungrateful, because this update I feel has genuinely been great, but are there plans to make the cold damage mods dash/naramon polarity. It's currently a pain to build around some weapons with those mods being by and large off limits.

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Remove/at the very least lower the range for stagger from amps - especially the Propa Scaffold feels so terrible to use now , was unnecessary change in the first place...

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Damage Types / Status Effects
Impact and Gas are under the closest review right now, expect changes to Impact to come first!

about Impact
I believe that swapping it's effect with Blast would make those 2 status effects perfect.

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Posted (edited)

There is a lot I have to say on the subject of easy vs difficult. I'm on my phone at work so I'll try to keep this short:

 

You guys did an amazing job at scaling difficulty with the disruption game mode.

You did a great job at scaling difficulty with the "alert levels" in the orb vallis.

Disruption is my favorite way you have executed this balance. In disruption, difficulty is tied to time efficiency. If you want to be fast and efficient with your time, it becomes much more difficult as you have more negative map-wide modifiers active at the same time.

In addition to the control we have over the difficulty, the rewards for disruption are scaled to your performance. You only need to succeed at ONE our of four objectives to continue on to the next round. Guys... I don't think you get enough praise for how well you executed your balance in disruption.

Can you do more of this? Not necessarily disruption, just tying together time efficiency with difficulty. It's a fair trade off. 

 

Railjack difficulty: we need something harder than the veil, but with SIDE GRADE rewards and/or purely cosmetic rewards. Having a railjack fully equipped with MK 3 equipment makes the veil easy peasy. We need a more difficult environment to flex our skills. But if you put in direct upgrades like MK 4 gear as rewards...it will just lead us back to the same problem. So side grade rewards or cosmetic rewards would be better. Allowing players to trade for these rewards is good too, then those of us who prefer to spend platinum can just buy the rewards from those who run the super difficulty content - everyone wins. 

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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It's not a big deal compared to most of the other stuff that needs to get fixed, but Warding Halo probably shouldn't make a player completely immune to stagger. 😛  I haven't looked at any of the other status immunity abilities--although some of these might have a better case for providing complete protection.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

we do plan to address and review after more playtime

DE, for Christ's sake- play your game before making a change- maybe, someone will realize that a given change doesn't feel good and we can avoid all of this altogether.

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Posted (edited)

DO you guys ever sleep? This update is HUGE!
I have soo much to comment on, I"ll try to keep it short: Warframe and Enemy armor needed the rebalance 👍,

Railjack cryers are LOSERS; I thought Railjack was for veterans not NOOBS that don't have excess Resources 👎,

Shield Gating Awesome 👍,

Removal of self damage was unnecessary. You've already created a MONSTER (Bramma), it will have to be tamed. IF players can't handle the self damage, they shouldn't be handling such a powerful weapon. Truth. 👎,

Some of the Arcanes did need a lil debuff but Even with Energize and a "1 energy drain" on Nyx's ultimate,  I had to be very conscious of my power pool while kicking butt for toroids in Fortuna 👍,

Excavator changes are nice I guess but we have yet to test the rebalance. I feel like its another Possible shot coming to the CORE of what makes warframe tactics Awesome, Unique and above all a necessity.:scared:,

Status changes are overall a good thing I'll probably be happy to see it once its released BUT I wish we would have received a BUFF to the crit base or even an actual CRIT shotgun to make better use of the shotgun crit mods 👍,

I haven't read the updates for the Kuva Liches, I imagine its being tweaked due to some bugs that popped up. I just wanted to blab about how FUN The Liches are now that the time it take to get a weapon has been rescaled. I look forward to getting more. The comedic insults are soooo Enjoyable, ***I think adding RNG based dialogue to the fixed personalities would be a great easter egg that could bring a lot of positive attention to the liches.*** 👍 Witty and humorous dialogue will make them the new STARS of Warframe. 👍👍

Ending with a bit of off Topic, the stories behind the Jarble of lore in Warframe have been a mixed bag of cool and Exceedingly EMO in presentation. Have you ever considered adding a back to back questine to Warframe? But with a full on RPG to fill in the VOID that is the VOID of Warframe? The game itself is already huge and filled with Stories of the Old ways and the new. Why not start another WARFRAME game? You will NOT be seeing any more $$ from me til Possibly Inaros Prime because I'm just not a fan of a lot of the next releases. BUT! ... a Paid for Warframe RPG that links to the Free to Play would crazy! Pinky and the Brain take over the WORLD CRAZY!! Even an offline RPG would be enough to open doors to a new community that will bring an ongoing LEGACY to D.E. New lore, epic tales, solid gameplay... Whats the crystal ball telling us? A future is there, cash in on MY paycheck ALREADY! 

P.s. Death TO FORTUNA and the SHARKWING!
SMH

Edited by (PS4)PS_element
typo

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Launcher AOE
As indicated in the notes, we started conservative. We hope to have some tweaks in today’s Hotfix and will work toward that goal.

- Too easy vs. Too hard?
If you find yourself having conversations about difficulty, please link them here or let us know your reactions to this topic - we have seen it discussed! 

just addressing the two topics above:

1) launcher AoE: I understand you guys wanted to start conservative and iterate. But you really need a PTR / test server for these more extreme experimental balance tests and iteration. 90% damage falloff is something that should have been tested and discarded on a test server, it should never have made it onto the Live game. It basically ruins the explosive weapons and defeats their purpose. Dealing with ruined gameplay for days/weeks/months (depending on the case) is not something that should happen on the live game, but tested on a PTR environment. I hope the fix you guys have for this is a lot more extreme than just bumping it by a few %.

2) Too easy vs too hard: The game was already too easy for me before. I quit it for 10 months because of that. Just recently came back. It's considerably easier now. I couldn't believe that was possible, but here we are. Enemies are more squishy and die faster (as if that was even possible, they were already getting two shot before with the right maxed out builds). Warframes are more tanky now with extra armor and have yet another fool proof failsafe in shield gating. The only thing that changed is that now you need to use toxin builds vs high level corpus, whereas before slash would be enough. But I was already using separate builds for grineer (slash) and corpus (gas). So this means I just need to swap a few elements in my builds. Other than that almost every change made the game easier and more trivial. At this point I honestly think we need Warframe 2 with a new combat system designed from scratch to achieve balance and some fun levels of challenge. 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

- Damage Types / Status Effects
Impact and Gas are under the closest review right now, expect changes to Impact to come first!

Feedback Thread Reminder Links:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bug Report Megathread:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171888-warframe-revised-bug-report-megathread-read-the-first-post/


General Megathreads: 
Shield Gating: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171898-warframe-revised-shield-gating-megathread/
Armor, Health & Shield Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171894-warframe-revised-armor-health-shield-changes-megathread/
Arcane Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171899-warframe-revised-arcane-changes-megathread/
100x Restore Blueprint: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171907-warframe-revised-100x-restore-blueprint-megathread/
Railjack Onboarding Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171890-warframe-revised-railjack-onboarding-changes-megathread/
Infested Damage: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171896-warframe-revised-infested-damage-megathread/
AI Aimbot Change: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171897-warframe-revised-ai-aimbot-change-megathread/


Warframe and Weapon Megathreads:   
Removing Self-Damage / Stagger: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171900-warframe-revised-removing-self-damage-stagger-megathread/  
Titania Changes & Vauban Tweak: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171903-warframe-revised-titania-changes-vauban-tweak-megathread/  
Sentinel Mod Sharing: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171909-warframe-revised-sentinel-mod-sharing-megathread/
>100% Status Chance / Shotgun: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171911-warframe-revised-100-status-chance-shotgun-megathread/
Status Chance Mod Buff: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171912-warframe-revised-status-chance-mod-buff-megathread/


Art / UI Megathreads:
UI Quality of Life Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171906-warframe-revised-ui-quality-of-life-changes-megathread/
Grenade Marker Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171913-warframe-revised-grenade-marker-megathread/
HDR Visual: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171918-warframe-revised-hdr-visual-megathread/
Deferred Rendering: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171919-warframe-revised-deferred-rendering-megathread/


Mission Megathreads: 
 Kuva Lich Murmur Change & Fix: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171916-warframe-revised-kuva-lich-murmur-change-fix-megathread/
 Mission Reward Cleanup: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171905-warframe-revised-mission-reward-cleanup-megathread/
Excavation Scaling Changes: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1171901-warframe-revised-excavation-scaling-megathread/


 

 

As for impact, just switch it with blast.

 

Right now blast feels useless, and is not "blast", weapons that do blast damage but don't kill enemies, don't have any "blasty" effect anymore, it feels like all explosions became flashbang grenades, with in many cases no flag or bang. Blast being able to knockdown and/or ragdoll is useful as CC, and is "optional" (Ie: no blast-based weapon, power or mod is "mandatory").

Meanwhile Impact is annoying, causing the effect of "blast" on everything, even if the weapon has only 1% of blast damage, it will still be annoying (for example low level pistols and rifles, stuff you don't expect to cause sudden knockdowns).

 

So, switch impact and blast.

 

More detailed explanation is on the appropriate forums and megathreads.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

-Launcher AOE
As indicated in the notes, we started conservative. We hope to have some tweaks in today’s Hotfix and will work toward that goal.

Conservative is an... extremely mild way of putting it.

  • QOL-wise the shield-gating fixes a rather large amount of self-kills. If you still manage to off yourself despite the shield gate (and I'm sure I will once in a while): PEBCAK!
  • Stagger is actually a rather vicious addition. Especially to weapons that were once self-safe and in some cases seemed designed for close range defensive work like the Zakti.
  • 20% damage buff with 50% falloff was going to be a severe nerf for most of the intended/usual uses of AoE weapons. When you want to murder a hapless lancer there are far more powerful single-target choices; AoE has always been about more quickly clearing weaker multiples on the field. And those multiples are spread apart.
  • On that front 90% is not conservative. It is a viciously radical change for one, but it's also reminds me of a neighbor's use of the term. He also calls his views 'Conservative' ...

If you REALLY must make stagger and falloff a thing:

  • Keep the 20% radius increase
  • Include the originally stated 20% base damage increase
  • Falloff begins at half radius distance and grows to 40% damage loss by the outer edge
  • No stagger within the falloff radius
  • Within the full-damage radius a combination of self-damage and self-knockback can occur to allow for rocket-jumping tonkors and "I should probably learn to aim that Lenz".
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