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Shotguns Huge Nerf


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1 hour ago, nslay said:

I don't imagine that being true for Phantasma. Convectrix maybe... But the status applications of shotguns has effectively (definitely) been nerfed and crit can compensate for that. Phantasma has really bad crit and Convectrix still has something respectable I suppose.

I've been playing with Phage all day... You absolutely have to use that 19% crit to make it work now. It does not work well without it.

Phantasma is an exception because of the way it fires. the person asked about Phase in particular.
yes, Phantasma is literally useless. Primary Fire, atleast. Alt-Fire will be mainly as good as always, except that Gas doesn't exist anymore.

Phage has the same quirks as it did previously, that the fully concentrated beam has different results from the wide one. even if you use it the same by pointblank'ing it into an Enemy with the full spread.
i.e. that when concentrated it strangely has weaker Status performance than if you just hipfire it at point blank.

Edited by taiiat
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Well with the changes to status it seems Multi-Shot is favoring high innate Status Chance Weapons of all kinds. And for those it particularly benefit weapons with high rate of fire and/or multi pellets, specially those with low spread pellets like khom/khomak.

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32 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's the general premise any sort of game balance should start at, just like how in say, a Competitive Shooter, you'd balance one Assault Rifle against each other in several factors bit the biggest one would be Damage and Fire Rate make trades in each other rather than say, one shooting 30% slower but doing triple the Damage, right?

same idea applied here - if __% Status Chance is considered appropriate by Digital Extremes for some non Shotgun Weapon that fires at __/second, then a Shotgun that trades Fire Rate for Projectiles per Shot would need to make atleast an equal trade otherwise it's almost assuredly worse, eh?
for example a classic doctrine for balancing Shooters is that if a Weapon was to shoot 5x slower than another, it needs to gain more than 5x the Damage per Shot, with an equal trade it would be the same thing but much harder to use and so not worth it. so it has to get a little bit extra for the disadvantages it took on such as 5.5 or maybe 6x, Et Cetera.

:)

 

at any rate, some theme reversals occurring because of what's been changed should give a bit of alarm that something must not be quite right here.

 

it's pretty much what you'd expect, i.e. the same as before. 

Multi-Shot for Continuous Weapons doesn't need to be looked at, it's perfectly fine. Continuous Weapons have very strong innate Status performance, especially if they're Elemental Base, and Phage is both of those.

I thought Phage was considered meh to poor before... Sure it has good innate status chance - plenty of other primaries do too - and an innate element that doesn’t impact its status chance at all, but what all other primaries with comparable status chance have (and shotguns did with pellets), they can further increase with multishot, while the Phage and other beam weapons cannot. It’s an inconsistency that negatively impacts these weapons for no apparent reason since they haven’t been broken let alone even meta in forever. It seemed like Phage just got power creeped out of existence a long time ago and nobody cared about it since.

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42 minutes ago, (PS4)Krikenemp said:

I thought Phage was considered meh to poor before...

but what all other primaries with comparable status chance have (and shotguns did with pellets), they can further increase with multishot, while the Phage and other beam weapons cannot. It’s an inconsistency that negatively impacts these weapons for no apparent reason since they haven’t been broken let alone even meta in forever. It seemed like Phage just got power creeped out of existence a long time ago and nobody cared about it since.

it was a fine Weapon. some decent Crits and good Status perormance.
innate Viral doesn't hurt either, to get Damage type mixtures that you can't on most Weapons. and Viral Status is always useful ofcourse.

it was a pretty mediocre at best Weapon in the past, but after Continuous Weapons got un-nerfed, it performed fine. fitting the jack of all trades role quite accurately.

 

it's not an issue at all, Continuous Weapons innately have high Status performance. they compete Statuswise with non Continuous Weapons with lower Status Chances. a non issue that they don't get 3x+ Projectiles.
it's perhaps not as much of a strength now since IPS stacks and isn't extra weighted (assuming that you'd specifically want Impact and Puncture), but especially for Elemental Base Continuous Weapons.

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10小時前 , (PS4)Krikenemp 說:

How is Phage now? I know it works very differently from normal shotguns since it's technically a beam shotgun. Did it get a status chance buff too? I know beam status chance with multishot still really needs to be looked at.

I mean no one remember Phage, as it even not on the table(shotgun status change nerfs/buffs)

ps:It seems Phage got a huge buff. Multishot not only increase the damage of beam shotgun, but also increase the status chance(just like the normal shotgun).

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22 hours ago, schilds said:

Tigris Prime performs better than Sancti Tigris.

The best way to mod has changed, or rather, shotguns are now like any other weapon. In most cases it's now more effective to balance your stats rather than stack up on a single stat (e.g. status).

Also, corrosive procs cap out at 10 now, so if you're modding for corrosive procs, you only want sufficient status chance to reliably get those 10 procs, anything more is wasted potential.

Either way, Tigris Prime is now so far behind Vaykor Hek it's not even a competition.  Which is fine, weapons trade places in rebalancing.

What I don't get is people trying to reinterpret a foul-up on DE's part as a "new definition".
Explicitly from the patch notes: Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater.

Guys, you can't change to the "new definition" that some are defending in the thread while meeting DE's claim they have tripled the base status of the old shottys.  It's either an error that shotgun status math isn't working properly, or it was a lie on DE's part.  There are no alternatives.

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On 2020-03-08 at 5:05 PM, Epsilon_Knight said:

Guys, you can't change to the "new definition" that some are defending in the thread while meeting DE's claim they have tripled the base status of the old shottys.  It's either an error that shotgun status math isn't working properly, or it was a lie on DE's part.  There are no alternatives.

I'm guessing it's the former, DE did a blanket change and forgot to compensate half the weapons that have innate multishot and differences like the Tigris family. They forgot to buff/fix Cernos P having 10% status per arrow ever since the bow rework (which is why I saw 0-3 base arrows get procs even though it had 100% status pre status changes). But it did get fixed along with the Phantasma, showing it was an error.

There are a bunch of weapons that they seem to have forgotten to buff with this still, Twin Grakatas has 2 base multishot and went from 11% status to 5.5%. My Zarr's 100% status alt fire build went from 29% base status that could've reached that threshold, to 2.9%.... With the old build the main fire still has 100% status, but the alt now has 10.4%, completely killing it.

Let's hope they don't just forget about the broken weapons and leave them non-functional for 7+ months like the Cernos Prime...

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