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SaidTheRogue

corrosive back to infinite duration, and remove impact procs

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3 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

Corrosive needs more than 10 to reach that magical 80% armor strip that excludes Corrosive Projection.

I did some high tech testing to determine the required amount of Corrosive procs to strip 80% of the enemies armor:

  1. I took a weapon with corrosive damage.
  2. I shot an enemy with armor.
  3. I noticed that 10 was the maximum amount of procs an enemy could have.

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Not possible because you're stripping lesser armor per hit, only the first hit removes 26% and the subsequent hits are 6% meaning starting the second hit its a smaller percentage. The old corrosive proc was a flat 25% per hit. You're stripping less armor per hit with the new corrosive proc compared to the old one Unless its additive and no longer percentage based. 


 

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8 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

Not possible

Dude, get off the forum and into the game. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

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1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

Dude, get off the forum and into the game. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

You get off the forum. MATH is MATH

I'm not trying to be a troll but since when is 6% (Not counting the first proc of the new corrosive proc) is greater than 25%?
New status bar only shows up to 10 for rad and corrosive procs, you could have made more than 10 status procs. 

 

You're saying that the new corrosive proc strips more armor than the old corrosive proc which is false.

The only time the new corrosive proc strips more armor is DURING THE FIRST PROC and the subsequent procs are only 6%.

The old corrosive proc strips more armor because it was a flat 25% armor strip each time.

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1 hour ago, MadMattPrime said:

The old corrosive proc strips more armor because it was a flat 25% armor strip each time.

No, it was 25% of current armor, not flat. Else you'd strip everything in four hits. The new one is a flat - 26%, then 6%, of initial armor. So old corrosive at 10 procs stripped 94% of armor after 10 procs because .75^10 = 0.06. The new one strips 26% on the first hit, 6% on hits 2 through 10, adding up to 80%.

It's both less effective than the old Corrosive and less frontloaded, because the old Corrosive stripped 58% of armor in three procs (each proc stripping only 3/4 as much armor as the one before) while new Corrosive takes five to just reach the halfway mark. It's a much needed nerf, especially with the new low armor values. But by no means mathematically impossible.

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19 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

 

No, it was 25% of current armor, not flat. Else you'd strip everything in four hits. The new one is a flat - 26%, then 6%, of initial armor. So old corrosive at 10 procs stripped 94% of armor after 10 procs because .75^10 = 0.06. The new one strips 26% on the first hit, 6% on hits 2 through 10, adding up to 80%.

It's both less effective than the old Corrosive and less frontloaded, because the old Corrosive stripped 58% of armor in three procs (each proc stripping only 3/4 as much armor as the one before) while new Corrosive takes five to just reach the halfway mark. It's a much needed nerf, especially with the new low armor values. But by no means mathematically impossible.

Yes thats what I meant my flat because the percentage didn't change.

Ah so its initial armor not like the old corrosive proc which was current armor value. If thats the case then yeah new proc removes armor faster. My bad

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Yeah, it's of initial. It really does cap at 10 like all status effects do now, though, which means that by the time it's stripping faster than the old Corrosive, it's nearly capped. f I'm mathing it right, the crossover point where the individual proc is stronger than the old one is on the sixth hit, and it never catches up with the old Corrosive since the old one had reduced armor to 1.9% by the tenth, not 20%.

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Sounds like you've made our argument for us. The old one was better and no, none of this matters for little lv120 enemies but when doing harder stuff, corrosive having a duration just feels weird. Fixing what wasn't broken. Over the years I've seen this ten thousand times.. Game devs changing stuff just to change it. FFS put it back eh

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Your argument is "Corrosive was nerfed and this is a bad thing". My argument has always been "Corrosive was finally nerfed and this is a blessing from God". But I'm really just explaining the details of the nerf, because again, duration wasn't and isn't even a very significant part of the nerf.

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21 hours ago, zakaryx said:

Impact is pretty insane to deal with right now. Multiple procs seem to reset the downed state.

 

https://imgur.com/a/HuwT7ql

Put Dance Dance revolution music in there and Impact becomes viable

 

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Guys, guys... Let's play spot the dev.

 

I'm thinking it's copperbezel

But seriously.. Defending this silly change seems strange indeed. Corrosive shouldn't have a duration, that's dumb. 

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There's no reason for Corrosive not to be consistent with how every other status condition in the game works, and certainly not now that armor's been nerfed in general.

But no, if I were a dev I'd be busy nerfing the new Viral. I don't think there's a single enemy in the game for which Corrosive in its present state is better than Viral in its, taking both the proc and the damage type into account. Meanwhile Viral's proc works on things that don't have armor and the damage type has bonuses against things other than Ferrite. It's literally just better. 

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I don't get why they removed knockdown on blast and added it to impact.  

Physical damage types are on almost every weapon, impact causes enemies heads to move which makes subsequent head shots harder.  When they fall, it is impossible.  

I'd rather they swap impact and blast procs.  Make impact have the -accuracy and nerf as needed (since it is common), then make blast knock down enemies again.  It was the desired sentinal element giving crowd control when mobs got close.  Subsequent impact procs can cause a daze where they stand in place a second or two dizzy with a concussion.  

Now blast is worthless and negative impact rivens are ideal.  I do more damage with headshots and no impact, than missing shots because of a proc I cannot avoid.  

At least with blast, I could avoid it.  

Puncture needs something else.  -damage defies logic.  

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6 hours ago, SaidTheRogue said:

Guys, guys... Let's play spot the dev.

 

I'm thinking it's copperbezel

But seriously.. Defending this silly change seems strange indeed. Corrosive shouldn't have a duration, that's dumb. 

You can assert your argument is correct all you want. Doesn't convince anyone one bit.

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and even if that be the case, it applies equally to you, and the other like 3 whole ppl in the game that seem to like the new corrosive. thus one should fall back to that old standby.. if players really dont like something, perhaps change it back? xD just saying.

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On 2020-03-10 at 2:43 PM, SaidTheRogue said:

and even if that be the case, it applies equally to you, and the other like 3 whole ppl in the game that seem to like the new corrosive. thus one should fall back to that old standby.. if players really dont like something, perhaps change it back? xD just saying.

I wanted to respond to some of what you said, since they looked like they’d lead into some interesting territory.

I think this post confirms a suspicion I had though; you’re not arguing with logic or consideration, you’re arguing with irrationality while trying to pass it off as the obvious, and you’re unable to see beyond “I’m right, you’re wrong”.

It’s nearly impossible to debate with anyone (it may be more prevalent than you think) when they’re like that (though I’d love to. I don’t think you’re stupid or anything), and you will almost certainly never try to see the topic from a different point of view at the moment.

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12 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

I don't think there's a single enemy in the game for which Corrosive in its present state is better than Viral in its

Corrosive is clearly superior against Ferrite Armor, so most Grineer. That being said, Viral is good enough against Ferrite, while being better against almost everything else.

The solution is very simple: Viral needs a negative damage multiplier against shields (at least -25%) to make players consider using something else against corpus. Adding a -15% damage multiplier against Alloy Armor would further cement Corrosive as the "anti-Grineer" element.

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My solution is 

Just switch around Impact's effects and Blast's effects.

While knockdowns and stuns are annoying I think we still should have a choice to either have them for our weapons or not.

Blast's effects right now is USELESS, the accuracy reduction doesn't even work I believe.

Plus it doesn't make sense that Blast makes enemies' accuracy less accurate and Impact knocks enemies down. Cause you know, Impact = Concussion, Blast = Explosions so I think it makes more sense if Impact makes enemies less accurate and Blast knocks enemies down.

 

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The reasons for corrosive not having a duration has to do with playing at higher levels. Those who never go higher than sortie probly think corrosive is fine, yes.. 

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46 minutes ago, SaidTheRogue said:

The reasons for corrosive not having a duration has to do with playing at higher levels. Those who never go higher than sortie probly think corrosive is fine, yes.. 

Throw in the fact that most GOOD frames that are great at yeeting armor (and shields in some cases) were also squish is part of why this argument is going on. But since Mag and technically Oberon also have a good chunk of more durability to them now, they can actually be present in higher level maps with less getting yeet`d involved. Which correct me if i`m wrong, but has perma armor stripping been removed from warframe ABILITIES with the PC update? Cause if not, then there`s everyone`s answer to Mass map armor stripping, use Mag.

OR better yet, use growing power with a friend or two also using growing power or power donation and enjoy walking around as Hildryn, Oberon or Mag, literally stripping maps of armor, if any enemy close enough to be a threat, or in mag`s case, anything within a 30+ or even 50+ meter radius of all or most of it and likely C.C. them easily to boot, depending on if your using Counter pulse or Fracturing crush. Because it only takes a single polarize pulse to yeet the armor completely of enemies in the 30~50ish range with ease on Mag and your fully able to move and spam it with its one handed action.

 

But lets be honest, warframe still has that fun issue where most of the D.R. comes early on and unless you remove a huge fixed chunk, it usually will not make much of a dent on the E-health. Just for fun, the setup i use for my mag pretty much is between 140%~160% power strength with growing power and 190% range, meaning that 400 drain strip goes to about around 560 to 640. Oh likely im using the console version since i dont believe the wikia has updated the scaling values yet, so likely on PC it will be easier for the strip to work at higher levels due to that whole reduction of armor growth

  • A level 50 elite lancer has 703.64 Alloy armor. Meaning roughly 600 is yeeted off which is basically like 25% D.R. from 70%.
  • A level 100 elite lancer has 2579.49 where sadly that % strip needs to occur since a single polarize brings it down by 3%~ D.R. Which Mag conviently can just use fracturing crush for an easy 50% strip on top of immobilizing enemies or in my case, would be roughly 70%~80% of its entire armor on any enemy roughly 34 meters around me.

Of course this is under the impression one is not using any C.C. measures, doing the hoarde parkour shooter solo, plus there are others who could do more optimized builds and those who think one needs to fully strip enemy`s armor to make them fragile, even when they already did something like slow every enemy on the map to a quarter of thar speed with nova or lock them in place with vauban`s bastille or easily cluster gather them with nidus and they are stuck unable to move for a good while or ZA-Waruldo! them with Rhino Stomp or so on and so on.

Plus if people are so concerned about the armor stripping, well HEAT exists now for an easier outlet of combining Some DoT, C.C.ing a target with panicking, yeeting half its current armor in 2 seconds and still deals bonus damage against flesh & infested, with only proto shields able to reduce the damage it deals.

Anyway moral of the story: D.E. can still do more changes to improve things, since Warframe was once again, NOT designed for any balance on basically anything past level 30 last i checked, so obviously its going to take a whole lot more work for them to do, when most of the game would not have you go past level 60, excluding sortie 3, kuva flood, poorly designed kuva lich system and of course the B.S. we call Railjack that is mostly resolved by 3 or more people stacking C.P.

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10 hours ago, SaidTheRogue said:

and even if that be the case, it applies equally to you, and the other like 3 whole ppl in the game that seem to like the new corrosive. thus one should fall back to that old standby.. if players really dont like something, perhaps change it back? xD just saying.

Ah yes, the entire player base composed of you posting here and you in the other thread complaining about Corrosive.

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As much as I'd like to use Mag as an example, the answer is.. Not really. Her armor strip was always a flat amount which never did much. Now, since the total amount of armor on an enemy is less, Mag does a little better but only slightly. 

If you guys are looking at the frame angle, I'd say Nyx is tops. Hardly any strength required to max out the ability, instant cast, affects multiple targets, removes shields also. 

And yet a duration on corrosive is still dumb, the armor magically grows back haha. Also, impact procs being so bothersome are the ONLY reason for the rise of negative IPS rivens. 

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1 hour ago, SaidTheRogue said:

And yet a duration on corrosive is still dumb, the armor magically grows back haha.

Slash - Their wound magically heals.

Puncture - Their damage magically decreases and then fixes itself.

Toxin - They magically get over being injected with poison.

Fire - They magically put themselves out despite standing still while on fire.

Magnetic - Their shield generators magically start working despite catastrophic failure.

Viral - Somehow they magically acquire a full on viral infection, and then magically get over it.

Radiation - They magically get rid of being radiation poisoned. Like what.

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Biological Vs mechanical.. 

 

But actually let's not get into that. If someone is gonna start down the road of logic in game design based on suspension of disbelief blah blah you may as well just uninstall every game from your PC. 

This is about day in day out gameplay applications relating to changes made to something that was fine already. You guys with your comments based on drawing false equivalencies aren't doing any good. 

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