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Hema Research Cost Refund


Almagnus1
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So DE realized that the costs of the railjack were (rightly so) completely absurd, and refunded players that had completely the railjack the difference in the cost.

So... can DE please re-evaluate the Hema research cost and refund the clans that have already completed it the samples while making it not quite an asinine grind.  Either that or actually make farming samples on Eris viable... instead of a bad meme.

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Not this again, I thought DE had made it clear that it wasn't going to be changed.... seriously if you haven't managed to research it by now you're doing something wrong in all honesty.  An organised team/clan can do this pretty efficiently IF they work together rather than expecting one or two people to do it.. (note I do have sympathy for solo/duo clans but likely quicker to trade plat for them)

Also the railjack costs were individual costs not clan costs so how exactly would DE refund each individual person the amount they put in.... it's pointless sticking mutagen samples in the clan pool when there's nothing else to use it on.  Also the real reason for the railjack changes wasn't the cost, it was lack of players playing it and accessibility for the upcoming event, the lowering of cost was purely done to aid newbies who were not the original target of railjack.

 

Edited by LSG501
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I have a feeling they do not record who contributed the mutagen samples to the clan research, thereby making a refund impossible to the specific player contributing. A refund into the clan vault would be pretty pointless.

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18 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So DE realized that the costs of the railjack were (rightly so) completely absurd, and refunded players that had completely the railjack the difference in the cost.

So... can DE please re-evaluate the Hema research cost and refund the clans that have already completed it the samples while making it not quite an asinine grind.  Either that or actually make farming samples on Eris viable... instead of a bad meme.

There is a difference between the Railjack and Hema research, Railjack is a vital part of the game`s progression and future questlines. Since its already locked behind a Dojo, it wouldnt be fair for players to have to farm so much in order to unlock progress and thus why they reduced Railjack costs and refunded the difference in cost.

The Hema is not a vital part of that progression thus doesnt need to have its cost reduced or refunded.

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4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

. (note I do have sympathy for solo/duo clans but likely quicker to trade plat for them)

 

I farmed them solo for my solo clan in a few days after work with Nekros while i had both boosters on but no smeeta. It should be even easyer now with smeetas and the like. 

TBH i dont think the hema is worth the grind, its not that the grind is hard, its just that the hema isn't suited to todays meta. Health is easy to get so many other ways and as a weapon its really not much good. Really its just a clan status symbol, its says "hey look, we can be bothered." 

If a clan cant be bothered to farm it, then your not really missing out... But OP dont be tryin to devalue my hard work. I worked for that useless piece of junk, you can do the same.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Either that or actually make farming samples on Eris viable... instead of a bad meme.

Which explains why you think its an asinine grind... Eris was, is and will always be the wrong place to grind for those.

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20 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

 it's pointless sticking mutagen samples in the clan pool when there's nothing else to use it on.

 

as new research is added, those would be useful. such as the new 100x health restore which needs mutagen samples.

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21 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

An organised team/clan can do this pretty efficiently IF they work together rather than expecting one or two people to do it.. (note I do have sympathy for solo/duo clans but likely quicker to trade plat for them)

I'm in the solo clan boat as I tend to play Warframe as secondary/tertiary game to FFXIV, so I have taken long breaks from Warframe and that's really not fair to inflict upon a clan that's got more active players to have one duck out for weeks or months on end.

I'm fine with the other higher resource costs for many of the things that need a ton of cryotic and oxium (and most of those are already researched), the key problem is that it's painful to get mutagen samples unless you specifically go farming for them in ODS... which means I've got to go do something that's really boring where I'm not getting any real reward from instead of basically anything else in warframe where I'm usually working on 2-3 things concurrently.  The core problem is the mutagen sample drop rate is completely abysmal.

Just now, (XB1)Muttz v2 said:

If a clan cant be bothered to farm it, then your not really missing out... But OP dont be tryin to devalue my hard work. I worked for that useless piece of junk, you can do the same.

That's like saying "I worked hard for my railjack, you should have to pay the same costs as I did, don't devalue my hard work".  DE clearly didn't think so relating to the Railjack.

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7 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Which explains why you think its an asinine grind... Eris was, is and will always be the wrong place to grind for those.

Yeah, you go do ODS to farm for samples.  The problem with the Hema isn't the amount of mutagen samples, it's that there's almost no reason to touch ODS outside of farming out that Octavia part and there's almost no meaningful way to grind out those samples otherwise.

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11 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I'm in the solo clan boat as I tend to play Warframe as secondary/tertiary game to FFXIV, so I have taken long breaks from Warframe and that's really not fair to inflict upon a clan that's got more active players to have one duck out for weeks or months on end.

Well like I said...probably quicker to trade for plat...

 

Quote

That's like saying "I worked hard for my railjack, you should have to pay the same costs as I did, don't devalue my hard work".  DE clearly didn't think so relating to the Railjack.

Well technically the early adopters (myself included) did work hard for the railjack, it was just in advance or over an extended period of time to allow us to afford the costs right at the beginning.  DE have then refunded the costs to the individual that is no longer necessary for newer players with less resources, besides like I said the change in cost has nothing to do with the resource costs and is everything to do with the fact that railjack is basically empty and we have an event revolving around players using railjacks coming up....

 

18 minutes ago, (XB1)Muttz v2 said:

TBH i dont think the hema is worth the grind, its not that the grind is hard, its just that the hema isn't suited to todays meta.

I never said it was a good weapon, and I have a riven for it...it still isn't that good even with the riven lol

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11 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Yeah, you go do ODS to farm for samples.  The problem with the Hema isn't the amount of mutagen samples, it's that there's almost no reason to touch ODS outside of farming out that Octavia part and there's almost no meaningful way to grind out those samples otherwise.

The problem is also the extremely low drop rate of mutagen samples.

Even with both resource boosters it has an astoundingly low drop rate compared to the number required for the Hema.

There's no actual argument for it to be this bad, it's worse than the grind in many predatory mobile games.

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Just now, LSG501 said:

Well like I said...probably quicker to trade for plat...

At this point, if you want the MR and you haven't gotten the research, you're generally better off buying it off of the marketplace than try to deal with the research.  That's a problem.

Just now, LSG501 said:

Well technically the early adopters (myself included) did work hard for the railjack, it was just in advance or over an extended period of time to allow us to afford the costs right at the beginning.  DE have then refunded the costs to the individual that is no longer necessary for newer players with less resources, besides like I said the change in cost has nothing to do with the resource costs and is everything to do with the fact that railjack is basically empty and we have an event revolving around players using railjacks coming up....

As one of the early adopters as well, DE finally saw a concrete example where sticking a massive grind in front of players just turned players off from the content.

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2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

At this point, if you want the MR and you haven't gotten the research, you're generally better off buying it off of the marketplace than try to deal with the research.  That's a problem.

But you said it yourself, you're playing other games.... how is it the games fault if you're not spending enough time in warframe...

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

As one of the early adopters as well, DE finally saw a concrete example where sticking a massive grind in front of players just turned players off from the content.

I can pretty safely say that the resource cost wasn't the issue for players based on the people I know in game..... funny how you keep avoiding the real reason it got changed (DE Even said why in devstream) and trying to make it out as being about the costs to support YOUR issue with the hema costs.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Pummelegance said:

The problem is also the extremely low drop rate of mutagen samples.

Even with both resource boosters it has an astoundingly low drop rate compared to the number required for the Hema.

There's no actual argument for it to be this bad, it's worse than the grind in many predatory mobile games.

Honestly, this.

Of the three "sample" resources, mutagen samples are the hardest ones to come by... for no real reason.

The only truly viable way of farming them is to do Derelict defense or survival missions with a full group running every loot-frame and companion in existence. Even then, it's a boring, soul-crushing grind for basically a token that says little more than "hey look everyone, I had nothing better to do with my time!"

It's the reason my friend and I (the only active members of my clan) haven't bothered farming it out. We've researched pretty much everything else... but the Hema has no incentive to actually do it. I think we have a combined playtime of well over 2000 hours (not a lot compared to some, I know, but that's not really the point), and we've only dumped maybe 500 total samples into the thing... just when we've felt like tossing them in the toilet, basically.

OP is asking for the wrong thing. I know they want a refund for whatever they've already spent... but they really just need to increase the drop rate of mutagen samples. There's no reason for me to have tens of thousands of fieldron samples and detonite ampules, but barely a couple dozen mutagen samples.

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Just now, LSG501 said:

But you said it yourself, you're playing other games.... how is it the games fault if you're not spending enough time in warframe...

Yeah, but it's only because Warframe doesn't consistently put out enough content to warrant my full attention.  But this also ties back to the root cause for this entire problem:  The mutagen sample droprate is abysmal regardless what you do.

Just now, LSG501 said:

I can pretty safely say that the resource cost wasn't the issue for players based on the people I know in game..... funny how you keep avoiding the real reason it got changed (DE Even said why in devstream) and trying to make it out as being about the costs to support YOUR issue with the hema costs.

Ok, so you're citing anecdotal evidence.  Looking at the game mode as a whole, if the cost isn't an issue... why is railjack so dead?

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seriously its not that bad. if all the people crying about mutagen samples would actually go farm mutagen samples, theyd all have hemas by now. we dont need 14 threads about it just because a new piece of research has mutagen samples in it. no, DE is not going to refund things so that u dont have to farm. in case u didnt notice from kuva liches and the fact that it takes 80 formas to level all the kuva weapons, DE wants the exact opposite of decreased grind. 

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14 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Ok, so you're citing anecdotal evidence.  Looking at the game mode as a whole, if the cost isn't an issue... why is railjack so dead?

just my personal opinion but i think railjack is so dead because a bunch of people find it pointless, in many peoples eyes its like archwing was at first launch, ie a tangential side mode than has little to no impact on the rest of the game or progression.

no one gave a crap about archwing til it was the way to travel around the plains, n even then not really until the eidolons dropped arcanes, and even now, thats a fairly limited amount of the community that actually farms them regularly and steadily, thus the archwings are still somewhat tangential just less so than they used to be.

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The problem with Hema's cost isn't so much that it's outrageous, which it is, it's that it's so far outside the cost of any other item in the bio lab.

Total cost of research (you can multiply for your clan size) in mutagen samples of everything other than Hema (or the Health Restore): 515.

*Cost of 100x Health restore: 550.

Cost of Hema: 5000.

Even if it's supposed to be outrageous, why is it 10 times the cost of everything else combined? or 100x the cost of any other individual item?

*Note: the Health restore costs as much as everything else combined. This is a lot but not "silly outlier" a lot.

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49 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's like saying "I worked hard for my railjack, you should have to pay the same costs as I did, don't devalue my hard work".  DE clearly didn't think so relating to the Railjack.

Ok well i didnt work hard to get my railjack up. I had all i needed allready from just playing the game, well apart from some stuff i needed to mine from fortuna. Also Hema as has been pointed out isn't needed to open up a large portion of the game. 

But aside from that trying to say that DE is consistent or even has a clue what its doing when it comes to grind, resources, rewards etc is just silly.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Muttz v2 said:

But aside from that trying to say that DE is consistent or even has a clue what its doing when it comes to grind, resources, rewards etc is just silly.

Which is why threads like this one are all the more necessary.  The more that we consistently point out grinds that are ludicrous outliers, the more likely we are to get some of the more stupid grinds fixed because not everyone should suffer through DE stupidity if it can be helped.

 

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

So DE realized that the costs of the railjack were (rightly so) completely absurd, and refunded players that had completely the railjack the difference in the cost.

Railjack was initially a preview and is now going to become a bigger part of the game. To that end they looked at who had one and put that against who didn't and adjusted the materials to make it a fairly easy grind to get so that future content using it would be available to the most amount of people.

The Hema is a single gun that has no game meaning outside it being a gun you can use. It is not essential to the game, it isn't locking you out of content, it will be one amongst a sea of other equipment to get to MR30.

There is literally nothing to warrant the comparison.

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

Which is why threads like this one are all the more necessary.  The more that we consistently point out grinds that are ludicrous outliers, the more likely we are to get some of the more stupid grinds fixed because not everyone should suffer through DE stupidity if it can be helped.

You not getting something doesn't make the other party stupid.

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