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Please revert Beam Shotgun nerf


SortaRandom

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So, we're all aware of the Shotgun nerf. The entire premise of the Shotgun nerf is that they can land a lot of procs with every shot, and this could be overpowered according to DE.
But let me talk a bit about Beam Shotguns. When I say "beam shotguns", I refer to beam weapons that fire multiple beams at once (not necessarily in the "shotgun" category), such as:

  • Phantasma (5 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
  • Phage (7 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
  • Convectrix (2 beams, 12.0 fire rate)
  • Quanta (2 beams, 12.0 fire rate)

 

Now, if you consider a regular weapon (Braton, Lato, Tigris Prime, Kuva Bramma), you'll notice that adding Multishot = more hits per trigger pull = more procs per trigger pull.
Fun fact about beam shotguns, for those who are not aware:


Beam shotguns will only tick once, no matter how many beams are touching an enemy. The total damage of the beams is simply added together in that tick.
i.e. Multishot will NEVER increase the number of procs on Beam weapons, including those with innate multishot.

 

This means that the Phantasma, Phage, Convectrix, and Quanta will only proc up to 12 times per second, regardless of the amount of Multishot they have, and regardless of how many beams hit. That's right, a Phantasma with 100% Status Chance and 99999 multishot will proc the same number of times as a Convectrix with 100% Status Chance and 2 multishot.
They fundamentally do not behave the same way hitscan/projectile Shotguns do, and therefore should not be nerfed along with Shotguns.

 

So, my request: Please revert the Status Chance nerf on Phantasma and Phage. They do not score more Status procs from Multishot, and therefore the nerf is unnecessary. (I think Convectrix and Quanta were buffed in this patch, so idk about those guys.)

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I had just decided today to finally level and forma my phage because of the XP weekend and with 3 forma and a new riven it feels worse now than it did with a barebones build before the update. 😞

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The beam shotguns definitely do not work as they should right now as you say.

Either they need to be excluded from the shotgun status changes, or changed to actually proc per beam rather than combining the lot of beams into one. The latter of these would bring both the phage and phantasma up to be proper status hoses again rather than being slower than most other weapons that has any kind of multishot on them.

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Le 06/03/2020 à 23:34, SortaRandom a dit :

Fun fact about beam shotguns, for those who are not aware:

Not only the shotguns : it is like this for all beam weapons.

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On 2020-03-06 at 8:24 PM, Vahenir said:

The beam shotguns definitely do not work as they should right now as you say.

Either they need to be excluded from the shotgun status changes, or changed to actually proc per beam rather than combining the lot of beams into one. The latter of these would bring both the phage and phantasma up to be proper status hoses again rather than being slower than most other weapons that has any kind of multishot on them.

The latter is how it should work because if you don't let the beams converge, they individually proc status on each enemy they touch (and they appear to even concurrently proc different statuses!). So why should converged beams be any different? Also, it's more in spirit for how shotguns are supposed to work! Why use Phage and gimp yourself with initially diverged beams and low base damage when you can use something like Glaxion Vandal and do the same thing with just one beam and no annoying diverged beams? I don't get it.

So if it currently works as proposed by OP (which it seems to), it definitely helps contribute to shotguns becoming the same as other existing weapons and losing all sense of fun and novelty. We have the pellet shotguns which are now mostly just glorified burst rifles (some of them, like Kohm, are still special). And the beam shotguns are just the same as gimped beam rifles. No?

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  • 5 weeks later...

Innate Multishot Weapons were fixed, not nerfed. Having 0.1% status chance be abruptly responsible for a twofold increase in output was not sensible. Someone made a poor decision a while back that resulted in breakable maths, and it should've been addressed long ago the moment someone suggested Riven dispositions might be sacrosanct for certain weapons just to facilitate crossing that breaking threshold.

As a result, the previous 'have' weapons/builds are normalised with the 'have-not's. Outliers pulled in line, everything else improved significantly. Except the Artemis Bow, which never got the base chance upgrade when the maths were changed, so it's just increasingly worse than before the more status chance you're trying to use..

 

That aside, continuous weapons are still a special case though. Isn't the 'multishot as pure damage' an obsolete factor of the past anyway, when they wanted to limit the damage events being produced? We have tons of ticks being tossed out by other weapons now, it's no longer necessary, especially since it hamstrings status output inconsistently compared to non-continuous weapons.

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Coincidentally, the phantasma nerf happended just before the release of another status-focused sentient primary weapon. Whose status chances are higher, but would have been lower than the pre-nerf phantasma. And also happens to sport both short range beams, and explosive projectiles.

The fact that this new weapon is a reward for an event many initially thought was not worth the grind, has certainly nothing to do with DE then completely ignoring all the undisputable evidences brought by players that the phantasma nerf was totally unwarranted in the context of a status rework for pellet shotguns.

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8 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Innate Multishot Weapons were fixed, not nerfed. Having 0.1% status chance be abruptly responsible for a twofold increase in output was not sensible. Someone made a poor decision a while back that resulted in breakable maths, and it should've been addressed long ago the moment someone suggested Riven dispositions might be sacrosanct for certain weapons just to facilitate crossing that breaking threshold.

As a result, the previous 'have' weapons/builds are normalised with the 'have-not's. Outliers pulled in line, everything else improved significantly. Except the Artemis Bow, which never got the base chance upgrade when the maths were changed, so it's just increasingly worse than before the more status chance you're trying to use..

 

That aside, continuous weapons are still a special case though. Isn't the 'multishot as pure damage' an obsolete factor of the past anyway, when they wanted to limit the damage events being produced? We have tons of ticks being tossed out by other weapons now, it's no longer necessary, especially since it hamstrings status output inconsistently compared to non-continuous weapons.

The phantasma was literally nerfed though. They changed the status on it as if multiple beams could apply procs, when they can't. The weapon literally has 3/5ths of the status it had before the changes.

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