How Gas 2.0 works and why it isn’t hot garbage

[Sohaya-]

Disclaimer: I did not test this myself, but am rather reposting what I heard on Discord: source is @Midas and his clan mates at Guns and Roses

Gas operates as follows, now:
Gas deals AoE ticks to everything near the afflicted target, regardless of whether the enemy being damage is status immune or not
Gas now scales from ALL MODS WHICH INCREASE WEAPON DAMAGE, excluding those that boost electric or cold damage
Gas damage is calculated at time of the proc occuring, and remains the same until the proc expires or the afflicted enemy dies (whichever comes first). This means it "snapshots" any calculated boost from critical hits, abilities, or status effects (see below)
Gas damage will always deal at least 1 AoE damage proc when it starts, and (unmodded) another damage tick every second for 6 seconds
This first tick occurs regardless of whether the target that would have been afflicted survives
The damage of gas can be boosted by other damage-boosting statuses (Viral and Magnetic) and will remain boosted even if those statuses expire, or (in the case of magnetic) all shields are removed
(Though the proc has to be made while the enemy has shields to be effected; the remainin duration's damage is simply not reduced when the shields are lost)
Gas double dips into mods and abilities which effect its damage, but now triple dip into status effect damage boosting (Once on hit, once on proc, and finally again on AoE damage for those still afflicted by damage-boosting procs)
Gas AoE damage is effected by armor/shield/health resistances to gas damage now (rather than toxin), which generally reduces its effectiveness (as) Gas damage no longer bypasses shields natively

Edited March 7, 2020 by RWBY-WhiteRose

[rainy]

Everything you say is true. However, all DoTs scale and always have scaled with all damage bonuses: +Damage, +Multishot, +Critical, Headshot, +Faction. The weakness of Gas as it is now (U 27.2.2) is that it no longer scales with elemental bonuses. The first tick of gas procs previously were also true gas, instead of toxin and had a different calculation.

Gas as it currently stands is directly inferior to Electric:

• More neutral damage type
• Same proc area
• Same base damage per tick
• Same duration
• Actually scales damage with modded electric bonus
• Also stuns enemies
• Less mod slots to make element.

Edited March 7, 2020 by VhwatGoes

[8faiNt]

Quote

Disclaimer: I did not test this myself

aite im out

[Midas]

7 hours ago, VhwatGoes said:

Everything you say is true. However, all DoTs scale and always have scaled with all damage bonuses: +Damage, +Multishot, +Critical, Headshot, +Faction. The weakness of Gas as it is now (U 27.2.2) is that it no longer scales with elemental bonuses. The first tick of gas procs previously were also true gas, instead of toxin and had a different calculation.

Gas as it currently stands is directly inferior to Electric:

• More neutral damage type
• Same proc area
• Same base damage per tick
• Same duration
• Actually scales damage with modded electric bonus
• Also stuns enemies
• Less mod slots to make element.

This is true as it now scales with all weapon damage mods. (excluding ele and cold mods).

Edited March 7, 2020 by Midas

[SadOverlord]

11 minutes ago, Midas said:

This is true as it now scales with all weapon damage mods. (excluding ele and cold mods).

It already did. Like every other proc that deals damage. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Midas]

4 minutes ago, SadOverlord said:

It already did. Like every other proc that deals damage. You don't know what you are talking about.

I do! You can triple dip with white procs, gas proc (as it is now gas not toxin placeholder) and finally AoE proc from magnetic and viral (the damage boost). I can test it out again and record if you'd like 🙂

Edited March 7, 2020 by Midas

[SadOverlord]

4 minutes ago, Midas said:

I do! You can triple dip with white procs, gas proc (as it is now gas not toxin placeholder) and finally AoE proc from magnetic and viral (the damage boost). I can test it out again and record if you'd like 🙂

There is no triple dipping involved. What people usually refer as triple dipping is the fact faction mods(and multipliers like rhino's buff) were calculated three times for calculating gas damage. Right now this is double dipped for every proc that does damage, even gas. Viral/Magnetic doubling the damage has nothing to do with this.
By the way, Gas is the only elemental proc that doesn't scale with modded elements. This is the issue. Adding more toxin or heat damage to the weapon doesnt actually increase the damage of the proc.

[ShortCat]

On 2020-03-07 at 4:05 PM, Midas said:

-snip-

Gas does not scale with Toxin or Fire mods, and now it only double dipps with faction mods.

[Midas]

5 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Gas does not scale with Toxin or Fire mods, and now it only double dipps with faction mods.

I've got it, we tested the patch before the hotfix and it seemed to work differently. Currently gas double dips now 😕 I'm aware on how it works, lots of testing since last posts, apologies Tenno! run that electric damage imo for aoe stacking with a viral booster

[TheArcSet]

So only 3 things have changed? Heat, Gas AOE-DOT and Mag?

The reason people are are saying this is bad is because players and the wiki are saying mods/abilities/faction-buffs no longer effect the damage at all and it no-longer triple or double dips. Though the wiki has now changed to say that faction mods work and double dip.

There's also the concern about the new global AOE effectring gas procs.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by TheArcSet

[TheArcSet]

On 2020-03-07 at 8:08 AM, 8faiNt said:

aite im out

I sympathise with him, but also with you. I learned the hard way to double check before PSA-ing.

[TheArcSet]

On 2020-03-07 at 3:05 PM, Midas said:

I do! You can triple dip with white procs, gas proc (as it is now gas not toxin placeholder) and finally AoE proc from magnetic and viral (the damage boost). I can test it out again and record if you'd like 🙂

Only one of those deals damage ... so is capable of single dipping and the hubub was that the only element that could previous triple dip from factions, either can't or, can only double dip now, depending on the cited sources. Edir: @Mida Thank you for clarifying.

Edited March 12, 2020 by TheArcSet

[Kobi_Blade]

On 2020-03-07 at 7:06 AM, VhwatGoes said:

Everything you say is true. However, all DoTs scale and always have scaled with all damage bonuses: +Damage, +Multishot, +Critical, Headshot, +Faction. The weakness of Gas as it is now (U 27.2.2) is that it no longer scales with elemental bonuses. The first tick of gas procs previously were also true gas, instead of toxin and had a different calculation.

Gas as it currently stands is directly inferior to Electric:

• More neutral damage type
• Same proc area
• Same base damage per tick
• Same duration
• Actually scales damage with modded electric bonus
• Also stuns enemies
• Less mod slots to make element.

Are you going to use electric damage against Infected? Ridiculous.

[taiiat]

7 minutes ago, JoseSnake said:

Are you going to use electric damage against Infected? Ridiculous.

i'll use Electric vs Gas when fighting Infested all day, every day.
it's more effective.

don't make me laugh and say "but, the lowest EHP Enemies in the Faction are weak to Gas!" - nobody cares what Chargers and Runners are weak to, we care about the Damage and/or CC we deal to the Heavies.

(also necro much)

Edited March 29, 2020 by taiiat

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

i'll use Electric vs Gas when fighting Infested all day, every day.
it's more effective.

don't make me laugh and say "but, the lowest EHP Enemies in the Faction are weak to Gas!" - nobody cares what Chargers and Runners are weak to, we care about the Damage and/or CC we deal to the Heavies.

(also necro much)

I see you know nothing about necromancy, come back in about a year and we will talk then.

[DatDarkOne]

On 2020-03-07 at 1:06 AM, VhwatGoes said:

Everything you say is true. However, all DoTs scale and always have scaled with all damage bonuses: +Damage, +Multishot, +Critical, Headshot, +Faction. The weakness of Gas as it is now (U 27.2.2) is that it no longer scales with elemental bonuses. The first tick of gas procs previously were also true gas, instead of toxin and had a different calculation.

Gas as it currently stands is directly inferior to Electric:

• More neutral damage type
• Same proc area
• Same base damage per tick
• Same duration
• Actually scales damage with modded electric bonus
• Also stuns enemies
• Less mod slots to make element.

I just tested all of this today.  I was being told the same thing about Electric having the same AoE area.  So I decided to test exactly that.  The proc area of Electric is practically 0.  Meaning no AoE.  I do know that it didn't use to be like this before the change/rework.  

These are subject to change, but this is how both electric and Gas are behaving as of today. 

So far these are the Gas advantages:  

• Seems to be the only element to have AoE now
• Cloud doesn't alert enemies on contact.  Because of this it's proc also inherits Stealth bonuses
• the cloud also seems to linger in the AoE space effecting enemies that move into it.  This one I'm not exactly sure of as I only saw it happen once. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I'll repost some formulations I did

 

[Kobi_Blade]

On 2020-03-29 at 12:26 AM, taiiat said:

i'll use Electric vs Gas when fighting Infested all day, every day.
it's more effective.

don't make me laugh and say "but, the lowest EHP Enemies in the Faction are weak to Gas!" - nobody cares what Chargers and Runners are weak to, we care about the Damage and/or CC we deal to the Heavies.

(also necro much)

Goodluck using electric against infested, I sure wouldn't want you in my party.

Doubt you would last past level 200, you would be doing 0 damage way before that for sure.

On 2020-03-29 at 4:06 AM, DatDarkOne said:

I just tested all of this today.  I was being told the same thing about Electric having the same AoE area.  So I decided to test exactly that.  The proc area of Electric is practically 0.  Meaning no AoE.  I do know that it didn't use to be like this before the change/rework.  

These are subject to change, but this is how both electric and Gas are behaving as of today. 

So far these are the Gas advantages:  

• Seems to be the only element to have AoE now
• Cloud doesn't alert enemies on contact.  Because of this it's proc also inherits Stealth bonuses
• the cloud also seems to linger in the AoE space effecting enemies that move into it.  This one I'm not exactly sure of as I only saw it happen once. 

I also did notice the stealth bonuses while using Gas.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Kobi_Blade

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Kobi_Blade said:

Goodluck using electric against infested, I sure wouldn't want you in my party.
Doubt you would last past level 200, you would be doing 0 damage way before that for sure.

Lv200? any random Weapon can perform up to that Level now since Enemies have 5-7x less Health.
congrats, all of the Enemies have massively reduced Health and make you feel like you're doing better than you actually are.

if you relied on either of the two for Damage, you'd struggle a bit in Damage - only a bit though since Enemies were nerfed so much that most of the time it doesn't matter what Damage Types you use.
except in the case of Eximus, which both Gas and Electricity used as a primary source of Damage would be horridly ineffective.

[Kobi_Blade]

14 hours ago, taiiat said:

Lv200? any random Weapon can perform up to that Level now since Enemies have 5-7x less Health.
congrats, all of the Enemies have massively reduced Health and make you feel like you're doing better than you actually are.

if you relied on either of the two for Damage, you'd struggle a bit in Damage - only a bit though since Enemies were nerfed so much that most of the time it doesn't matter what Damage Types you use.
except in the case of Eximus, which both Gas and Electricity used as a primary source of Damage would be horridly ineffective.

You keep assuming and embarassing yourself, I been around since BETA (on and off), I've seen it all.

When you have the time to live and survive over 200 minutes in survive alone, you may join my ranks.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Kobi_Blade

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Kobi_Blade said:

You keep assuming and embarassing yourself, I been around since BETA (on and off), I've seen it all.

When you have the time to live and survive over 200 minutes in survive alone, you may join my ranks.

k
and yet you apparently haven't seen that Enemies all got nerfed massively and that's why a DoT like the current form of Gas is able to be passable. and ergo what you're relying on now.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

9 hours ago, Kobi_Blade said:

You keep assuming and embarassing yourself, I been around since BETA (on and off), I've seen it all.

When you have the time to live and survive over 200 minutes in survive alone, you may join my ranks.

Try solo 5 1/2 hours in an ODS solo back in 2015, before the power creep really set in. 200 minutes, that's less than 4 hours lmao that's nothing to tote around.

Try level cap grineer and corrupted.

I can say for certain that gas is terrible. Apparently, this "rated mature game" with cursing devs and swear word central yt partners, censors the word I actually wanna use, but the term is "gas is a**"

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1174928-how-to-fix-gas/?tab=comments#comment-11435591

I urge a look into the findings here. The only things out of date here will be the toxic ancient change and the aoe size change, that doesn't affect much at all. 

Electric is by far the better status despite it being bugged rn to not chain to other enemies. That's the key thing, it's bugged and needs to be fixed. DE's coding is laughable so I wouldn't be surprised. Electric as a dps status is STILL better than gas because of the unique mechanics involved with it and ability to be built with viral as well.

Edited March 31, 2020 by (PS4)Crixus044

[DatDarkOne]

10 hours ago, Kobi_Blade said:

You keep assuming and embarassing yourself, I been around since BETA (on and off), I've seen it all.

When you have the time to live and survive over 200 minutes in survive alone, you may join my ranks.

The hardest part of doing any mission for long periods is staying AWAKE.  That's it and nothing else. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by DatDarkOne

[GreyDeath789]

On 2020-03-31 at 3:38 PM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I can say for certain that gas is terrible. Apparently, this "rated mature game" with cursing devs and swear word central yt partners, censors the word I actually wanna use, but the term is "gas is a**"

Try making a config name that uses the augment mod to Nyx's 4th ability...can't do it..."bad word" even though DE can use that "bad word" in the mod name. Censorship is always fun.