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New Status Effects: Review & Proposals


Shaburanigud
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With the arrival of the "Review, Revise, Refresh" update, we have gotten a revisit to status effects.
Thus we were to have a new age of fresh builds and meta!

Or so we hoped so.
The following is a simple review for each status effect that has arrived with the update.

And before we begin,
DE please make a thread that takes feedback about the new status effects. 

0. Comparison of Status effects
  Overall:
Before the patch among 13 most of the roster of status effects were avoided. Which is why I'm guessing this patch has happened
Now somehow we only got less viable status effects(Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Fire, Toxin) then we used to have(Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Blast, Fire, Gas, Toxin).

  Status Effects(Old)

Spoiler
  • Impact: (-5/5) Must be avoided at all costs, it does nothing, it makes you waste your bullets, a negative with impact was always welcome in a riven.
  • Puncture: (1/5) Ignored. The effect was so weak, that it actually meant nothing except provide more melee damage when using Condition Overload.
  • Slash: (5/5) META. Used to bypass every defense mechanism in the game and dish out huge numbers. Thus was one of the best status effects.
  • Fire: (4/5) Great. Before this patch, reducing armor was always welcome as that was the only defense mechanism that meant anything to us. + it adds small DoT and CC.
  • Cold: (1/5) Ignored. Again like Puncture, the effect was so weak that it was hard to notice it.
  • Toxin: (3/5) Good. While not as effective as Fire or slash, the fact that it can ignore a certain type defense mechanism and deal DoT wasn't bad. Very basic too.
  • Electricity: (2/5) Okay. While it doesn't ignore any defenses, it did add CC and DoT with and AoE. The only setback was that the numbers were too small to notice anything except the CC
  • Blast: (3/5) Good. While a lot of people don't use this for the same reason for Impact, the main difference between the two is that this was an effective AoE CC. And one of the best in the game. While it didn't kill enemies, it helped you survive. Thus, as it did it's job, it was a great status effect to trigger when you needed it.
  • Gas: (4/5) Great. Before the patch, it used to deal Toxin damage in AoE, which means that it did everything Toxin did, but in AoE fashion. Making it great for dealing mobs.
  • Radiation: (2/5) Okay, Turning enemies against each other is awesome in concept, but sadly not much in practice. As the enemies don't really do much damage to each other, it was just an "okay CC"
  • Viral: (5/5) META. Allowing the enemy health to be halved is a great addition to any build. While it doesn't ignore defenses like some of the others in this list, it's combo with slash makes it so powerful. Not to mention you only needed just 1 proc, making it easy to become a universally loved proc.
  • Magnetic: (0/5) Useless. While not as bad as Impact, the fact that Toxin/Gas can literally ignore armor made this effect useless.
  • Corrosive: (5/5) META. The fact that armor was the only meaningful defense, made this THE status effect. Not to mention it synergizes with the damage type itself made this THE goto status effect with slash.

 

  Status Effects(Present)

Spoiler
  • Impact: (-10/5) It got worst. How can this become more worst? The main problem with the impact proc was that it made it hard to aim and hit the enemy. Making the enemy duck down to the ground does NOT HELP. 
  • Puncture: (1/5) Ignored. While the effect has become better, It still doesn't do much to  actually be worth investing into. Thus still something to be ignored.
  • Slash: (5/5) still a META. While it doesn't go through shields anymore, shields are still weak and easy to get through despite the buffs it got. Thus still is one of the most beloved status effect
  • Fire: (4/5) Nothing has changed for the stat itself, but with corrosive now also being a temporary debuff, the combo of the two makes it just much more sweet to kill enemies.
  • Cold: (1/5) Ignored. Again the damage doesn't do anything much to be worth investing in. Slowing down enemies are cool but there are a lot better options for CC then this one.
  • Toxin: (4/5) Great. Though not much has changed, the fact that it is the only element that can bypass shields has made it a great element. Even though shields aren't that strong.
  • Electricity: (3/5) Good. While the change has great potential, the only problem with it is that the numbers are too low in general (dmg, range, length of CC). Fix that part and we might get a great proc!
  • Blast: (1/5) What used to be a niche, but get it's job done CC has now become a worthless CC. Like puncture, the proc itself is hard to feel any worth. Not to mention we lost one of the best CC options within the game.
  • Gas: (2/5) Okay. To begin with, the proc itself is still great as it is a AoE DoT effect with good numbers. The only problem is with the damage type itself. Unless that damage type gets more uses, this will not be a status effect worth investing in higher level plays.
  • Radiation: (2/5) Okay. While the number has gone up, it seems the enemies tankiness still overpowers whatever damage they try to do to themselves. Thus radiation seems to stay around the same place it used to be. Yet with the removal of Blast, it seems to have risen to be the best CC option there is. But even then it's not that good compared to old blast.
  • Viral: (5/5) EVEN STRONGER. Remember that this effect could halve the enemies life to half? As that was basically increasing your dmg number by 100%, this became more insane with the added viral proc. Not only is viral now a viable proc to heavily invest in, but its synergies with the Slash proc are now insane.
  • Magnetic: (0/5) No matter how good Magnetic becomes against dealing shields, the fact that toxin bypassing it entirely renders the effect useless. IT HAS TO DO MORE.
  • Corrosive: (5/5) Still META. While the corrosive proc is no longer a permanent effect, it is still a powerful effect. And for those few types of weapons that tended to overstrip armor, this actually acts as a buff since one would no longer have to worry about overstripping. Paired with the fact that armor is nerfed but still the most toughest thing to fight against, makes corrosive to still be the goto status effect.


1. Proposition
So what should we do? As users, our best bet is to provide good feedback and maybe good ideas.
Of course, this is only meaningful if DE is willing to hear, which I hope is the case, Despite the fact we don't have a feedback thread for this.
(Yes, I'm salty about that)

Here are my suggestions, Feel free to skip as the feedback was the important part.
Also please feel free to add your feedback here and lets hope DE reflects it to somewhat extent.

Hope you enjoy reading, and if you have any ideas or how it would be great for DE to improve this patch, I'd love to hear about it 🙂
Please share your thoughts and opinions about the new update in status!

Spoiler

I personally suggest giving each status effects identities so that they at least fill a niche roll, and each be their own thing, rather than one status effect just be the better version of another.

  1. IPS:
      Impact, Puncture and Slash are the main 3 physical types in warframe. Also the Base of most damage as well.
    I suggest that each status proc from these physical types support builds that exist in warframe. Status builds, Crit builds and True damage builds(slash)

    Impact:
    STATUS BUILD SUPPORT PROC
     While under the effect of the impact proc, enemies become more susceptible to elemental status procs. Initial impact procs will boost the enemy to be procced by an elemental status by 10% for 6 seconds. Additional status procs will boost the proc chance up to 30%. While under the effect of the impact proc, all elemental status procs will have 100% higher damage, range and duration. (Bonuses to status chance is additive)
    --> While this won't be that effective against already powerful status weapons that can afford high elemental damage, it will open up new build options for weapons that had moderately low potential to steadily add elemental procs to enemies, thus allowing more weapons to branch out into status builds. Not to mention the higher damage, range, duration will tie in well with Blast, Toxin, Fire, Gas, Electricity, while the duration serves well for all elemental procs
    I deliberately limited the status effect boost to only elemental procs due to this mixing with slash would be horrendous.

    Puncture:
    CRIT BUILD SUPPORT PROC
     While under the effect of the puncture proc, enemies become more susceptible to critical hits. Initial puncture proc will boost the enemy to take critical hits by 5%, additional puncture procs will boost this by 2% to a cap of 30%. (Bonuses to crit chances are additive) Bonus of puncture proc will only support up to 100% crit chance and will not add any bonuses beyond yellow crit.
    --> This will allow some weaker status weapons to start dipping their toes on cirt/status hybrid builds by investing into puncture, while also allowing the option for some weaker crit weapons to further invest in puncture to boost it to full yellow crits. Yet to put a hardcap on it, it will do nothing to support beyond yellow crit. A weapon with over 100% crit chance will earn no benefits from the puncture proc.

    Slash:
    TRUE DAMAGE SUPPORT PROC
     Its already doing what it does quite well. Leave it as it is.
     
  2. Defensive Status procs:
      Status procs aren't always about killing the enemy faster, but keeping you alive as well. And there is no other like Blast to do that job.

    Blast:
    Blast proc knocks down enemies in AoE fashion. Additional procs to blast damage will increase the enemies downtime by 1 seconds and increase ragdoll effect by 10%, capped at 5 seconds/50%. While the enemies are down, they are open to finishers. When they are procced for the fifth time, they are opened up to mercy kills.
    --> Increases the CC effect and with enough procs, opens them up to finishers. While slower than other methods, it's a small bonus so it can compete with the more META status procs

     
  3. Add weakness procs:
      While strategizing against enemies and swapping builds are fun, its equally great to make the enemy follow you're own will.
     
    Cold:
      Initial proc will slow enemy by 25% and increase vulnerability against physical/cold damage types by 50% for 8 seconds. additional procs will increase the slow amount by 25% up to 100%. When the slow effect reaches 100%, the enemy will completely freeze for 8 seconds and remove all skill effects (such as nullifiers, shield regen etc) for the duration. Attacking frozen targets with physical/cold damage shall send ice shard flying around the target of 5m, ice shards shall deal 50% amount of physical/cold damage done to the frozen target as cold damage with 10% chance to proc another cold status. Freeze status shall be renewed for every new cold status proc.
    --> This will be the hardest CC for a single target and allow physical/cold damage to gain stronger advantages compared to other. Thus, as cold is within modding, this status is best when used solely by itself. By converting the enemy to your taste, it might not be the best combo, but it will always be the best Plan B.
    P.S Frost's freeze effect should share these properties.
     
  4. Crowd Control
    While Blast is a CC, the means presented here are to be the best of all CC (within status procs)

    Radiation:
      Deal 100%~550% additional damage to allied units as radiation damage with a 5% proc chance. When an enemy has more than 10 radiation procs, they will become a walking nuclear fallout that deals AoE DoT until they die. The effect will persist even after the radiation effect has expired, and will deal 1% of the enemies total health's per second as True damage to all nearby allies(5m). Nuclear fallout effect is not effected by impact procs
    --> Radiation is a great CC, but it's downside is that confused enemies don't do enough damage to kill themselves. Now they will die faster and deal more damage as well while spreading the chaos. In short, the greatest enemies will be themselves. The most effective way would be to make a semi-boss character into a nuclear fallout, and let him kill all the enemies around him for you, while you focus on killing only him.
    --> In short, this CC guarantees you to focus on one-on-one fights with single high level targets. While this isn't the case for the current game, let hope the occasion arrives in the future in the form of mid boss fights who aren't completely immune to status effects.

    Magnetic:
      In addition to the shield damage, robotics affected by magnetic shall receive 30% more damage from magnetic damage for each magnetic proc up to 300%. If the enemy has grenades when procced, the grenades will instantly explode disabling them to throw grenades, drones or any other gimmicks they posses. When enemies with a magnetic proc die, they will leave a bubble that slowly pulls their allies toward it for 6 seconds. This distance shall rise from 1m(5 stacks) to 10m(10 stacks) based on how many stacks it had. forcing the enemies to group up. While being pulled they will still be able to attack normally but will not be able to leave the bubble. Any bubbles near each other will converge into a larger bubble that effects up to 15m and refresh it's duration.
    --> This will disable enemy abilities to throw stuff, summon stuff, open up nullifier bubbles at you for increased survivabiltiy, but will also work great with AoE weapons as it keeps creating bubbles that makes juicy targets cluster into one giant group.

    Electricity:
      Electricity procs will electrify enemies where they are with a small amount of DoT. It will spread the same effect to surrounding enemies within 2m who aren't electrified. Every increased electric proc will increase the area of where the next electric proc can spread by 3m up to a maximum of 10m.
    --> Doing all kind of gimics may be fun, but could be annoying for the team. A healthy amount of electric procs will allow a whole room to be completely locked down for 6 seconds or more if combined with the impact proc.

As Fire, Toxin, Corrosive, Slash is fine, I think its best to leave those untouched. Also I did not touch Gas as it's status effect is great, and it's problem resides on the damage type itself, which should probably be looked at.

Edited by Shaburanigud
For better readability
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I like your proposition for the IPS and Blast changes. I feel that the cold and electric proc ideas are more akin to warframe powers than status procs though.

I also think Electric will get better after Gas is looked at. They should synergize well, but Gas just doesn’t carry its own weight yet.

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1 hour ago, Gailus said:

I like your proposition for the IPS and Blast changes. I feel that the cold and electric proc ideas are more akin to warframe powers than status procs though.

I also think Electric will get better after Gas is looked at. They should synergize well, but Gas just doesn’t carry its own weight yet.

Yeah the propositions may be a tad extreme I guess. Even if they're behind a proc count cap.

But still I do hope DE opens a thread about this topic soon.

Very soon

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I still feel we need to cut the majority of the Damage Types out of the game entirely. Merge all the Physical damage types together into one, then throw in maybe another four more - one per base Elemental type. Have one that's Debuff, one that's Control, one that's DOT and one that's anti-EHP (anti shield/armour/regen), and leave the physical damage type for soft control. Let's call them Ballistic, Viral, Cryo, Plasma, Chemical. Ballistic would do Stagger, which would progress from basic stagger to full-on knockdown. Viral would do Suppression, reducing enemy accuracy and rate of fire. Cryo would do Freeze, which would slow enemies down and progress into a full-on hold. Plasma would do Burn, which would cause progressively more sever damage ticks until finally immolating the target and causing it to deal damage to friendlies. Chemical would do increased damage to armour and shields, as well as preventing any amount of armour repair, shield recovery or health regeneration while it's in effect.

Long story short, I don't feel there's any way to make 13 damage types all worthwhile and I don't see the benefit from combo damage types. I definitely don't feel ANYTHING in the game should be doing True damage outside of self-damage effects (ala Desecrate) or mission-scripted stuff.

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2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I still feel we need to cut the majority of the Damage Types out of the game entirely. Merge all the Physical damage types together into one, then throw in maybe another four more - one per base Elemental type. Have one that's Debuff, one that's Control, one that's DOT and one that's anti-EHP (anti shield/armour/regen), and leave the physical damage type for soft control. Let's call them Ballistic, Viral, Cryo, Plasma, Chemical. Ballistic would do Stagger, which would progress from basic stagger to full-on knockdown. Viral would do Suppression, reducing enemy accuracy and rate of fire. Cryo would do Freeze, which would slow enemies down and progress into a full-on hold. Plasma would do Burn, which would cause progressively more sever damage ticks until finally immolating the target and causing it to deal damage to friendlies. Chemical would do increased damage to armour and shields, as well as preventing any amount of armour repair, shield recovery or health regeneration while it's in effect.

Long story short, I don't feel there's any way to make 13 damage types all worthwhile and I don't see the benefit from combo damage types. I definitely don't feel ANYTHING in the game should be doing True damage outside of self-damage effects (ala Desecrate) or mission-scripted stuff.

I don't know...

While I agree it would be quite impossible to always make all 13 dmg types relevant and strong in every situation, I feel this may just lead to just have one damage type be relevant and make all others be even more dead.

What I see as the best outcome is to give every status effect at least be a niche and great gimmick.

Old blast was a great example for this. Until DE butchered it.

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In the ideal, I roughly agree with Steel_Rook. I'd reduce the list to Impact and Slash with Heat, Blast, Electromagnetic, and Chem "payloads", remove armor class modifiers, have just a few health types that would combine in any one unit like Flesh, Synthetic, Hardened, etc., and basically simplify the color wheels. 

In the real ... just nerf the new Viral please, it's ridiculous, it'd be fine at half the bonuses it's giving

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I agree with the issues you found but I don't agree with the solutions. The main issue of this game is the fact armor scales. The meta will always revolve around reducing the huge EHPs of Grineer if DE doesn't realize the fact armor scales is the issue. I'm not surprised the meta is entirely composed of Slash/Viral, Heat and Corrosive.

If anything works against Grineer, it automatically works against anything else, because the EHPs of the other factions are a huge joke. The HP scaling graph was made with the idea armor had to scale as well. The solution? Make armor a flat number for each different armored enemy (Damage reduction somewhere between 20% for the light armored enemies and 80% for the heavy armored ones). Then make health scale around three or four times as much. Also, make shield scaling follow the same function health follows. This will force people into having different loadouts made of different elements. Then we can talk about changing statuses and damage types to balance out the game.

Edited by SadOverlord
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I agree with your ideas although not all the numbers.  I definately think DE dropped the ball on things like blast, gas, impact, magnetic, and puncture.  

I like the idea of making each status specialized but also agree with guy above me about armor scaling.  That needs to be a constant and health (skin, robotic, cloned, whatever) adjusted as nesseaary, maybe x2 or x3 more.  

Having flat damage reduction with increased health would make specialized elements more useful and specialized status effects a lot more fun.  Then it would start to matter how you modded weapon and not just brining same elements to every faction.  

In this new world, it gets complicated fast as we not only need to take into consideration the elements, but also the polarities with the elements.  Having a D on cold, of V on status elements, screws over builds in different configurations.  Then add all the + or - you get to differnt mobs with different elements and which are possible, I get why guy above me wants to simplify down (but don't agree).  

I hope DE continues to tweak numbers and adjust status procs so all have a niche use.  It is sad they didn't create a megathread about this!

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5 hours ago, SadOverlord said:

I agree with the issues you found but I don't agree with the solutions. The main issue of this game is the fact armor scales. The meta will always revolve around reducing the huge EHPs of Grineer if DE doesn't realize the fact armor scales is the issue. I'm not surprised the meta is entirely composed of Slash/Viral, Heat and Corrosive.

If anything works against Grineer, it automatically works against anything else, because the EHPs of the other factions are a huge joke. The HP scaling graph was made with the idea armor had to scale as well. The solution? Make armor a flat number for each different armored enemy (Damage reduction somewhere between 20% for the light armored enemies and 80% for the heavy armored ones). Then make health scale around three or four times as much. Also, make shield scaling follow the same function health follows. This will force people into having different loadouts made of different elements. Then we can talk about changing statuses and damage types to balance out the game.

Actually, I've been giving this some thought as well.

Since the biggest defense shields have are now shield gating, I think it wouldn't hurt to build that up.
Simply put, instead of just making the shield bigger and fatter, why not make it into several layers?
Whenever a shield is over, lets say, 150 it becomes a single layer. So if you have 300 shield, you will have 2 layers of shields.

Every layer of shield will perform shield gating, thus if you meet an enemy with 300 shield and 200 health, and you deal 500 dmg per shot, You'll have to shoot at least 3 times.
Of course, for this to work properly, I propose that toxin no longer ignores shields entirely, but just one layer of shield.

This will make Corpus more resilient, and in some ways make them difficult to deal with in a different manner than Grineer.
Since while they are still a tad more smushy, they will be impossible to one shot.
especially in higher levels.

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What seems incredible to me is that we have an update just out of the oven so poorly developed that, practically, it leaves unchanged what we already had, it does not improve the existing almost in anything (except viral), and worsens things that already worked well (explosion ).

In short: another disaster to chain Lich and Empyrean.

+1 to OP.

 

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