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Six Syndicates...


Fleuria
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And don't forget my fave syndicate Simarus. 

I used to think that the syndicates matched up with the schools of the VD as well as the Void tendrils that are in our chair room. After doing each aligned syndicate, the Chambers would open in the chair room to reveal something...but nothing came of those Chambers in the floor so....

 

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52 minutes ago, Fleuria said:

I am sure this observation has been made before, but our six syndicates are really eight syndicates with two missing. (Arbiters of Hexis and Cephalon Suda are missing their neutral opposites.)

26 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Arbiters and Suda are allies, their neutrals are both Steel Meridian.

8 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Such lack of symmetry make me want to hurt someone.

I'm not sure I see the problem...

d37247ea1a818c9609e34154ffe972df.png

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28 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I'm not sure I see the problem...

d37247ea1a818c9609e34154ffe972df.png

For it to be symmetrical Steel Meridian should be opposed to Cephalon Suda and Red Veil to New Loka. That way we would've got three equivalent couples of Syndicates, with no distinct differences whether to ally with.

Instead we've got two triplets (or three inequivalent couples). Here Red Veil - Steel Meridian is always preferred, as it is the only couple that allows you to level up two more Syndicates. In other words, you can ally with both SM - RV and AoG - CS or with both SM - RV and PS - NL, but not with both AoG - CS and PS - NL.

Which low-key makes me mad.

 

(Well actually you can, but it will be irritating and cannot be done passively without any of the four losing reputation)

Edited by ant99999
Clarification
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the real question is: when will be able to 'negotiate' custom relationships among Syndicates? I'm tired to see the same dynamic... there so much potential entirely unexplored in the concept of Syndicates, it's really a pity

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6 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

For it to be symmetrical Steel Meridian should be opposed to Cephalon Suda and Red Veil to New Loka. That way we would've got three equivalent couples of Syndicates, with no distinct differences whether to ally with.

Instead we've got two triplets (or three inequivalent couples). Here Red Veil - Steel Meridian is always preferred, as it is the only couple that allows you to level up two more Syndicates. In other words, you can ally with both SM - RV and AoG - CS or with both SM - RV and PS - NL, but not with both AoG - CS and PS - NL.

Which low-key makes me mad.

 

(Well actually you can, but it will be irritating and cannot be done passively without any of the four losing reputation)

OK so let me think this out... you can do Steel Suda quartet, you can do Red Loka quartet, and the last one would be...

...yeah, Perrin Hexis is possible but doesn't work the same way, I think I see your point now. It's bilaterally symmetrical instead of radially symmetrical

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Just now, TARINunit9 said:

It's bilaterally symmetrical instead of radially symmetrical

Yeah, you're right. It's still symmetrical of course.

It just always gave that feeling that it was intended to be indeed radially symmetrical considering they are divided into allied couples, but instead it's not... yeah.

Don't mind me, I sometimes get frustrated about insignificant things.

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Titania and the Silver Grove came from New Loka

Harrow and Wally came from Red Veil

Nidus and the Index came from Perrin Sequence

Grendel and Arbitrations come from the Arbiters of Hexis

Cephalon Suda and Steel Meridian should be bringing a quest/game mode and warframe soon. 

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2 hours ago, Sunai_Moonswing said:

Titania and the Silver Grove came from New Loka

Harrow and Wally came from Red Veil

Nidus and the Index came from Perrin Sequence

Grendel and Arbitrations come from the Arbiters of Hexis

Cephalon Suda and Steel Meridian should be bringing a quest/game mode and warframe soon. 

We, um... we just ignoring Octavia's Anthem and the Pacifism Defect?

For my own part, what I'd really love from the main six is the ability to just choose who we want to ally ourselves with for Perrin and Arbiters to switch places. Like... it's always, always bothered me that the one syndicate whose goal is peace in the Origin system is allied with... the Rabid Murderbros and the We're Totally Not Space Nazis club, instead of Steel Meridian, who are all about protecting the civilians of Origin, and Suda, who's basically Simaris Lite™.

Edited by XRosenkreuz
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42 minutes ago, XRosenkreuz said:

For my own part, what I'd really love from the main six is the ability to just choose who we want to ally ourselves with for Perrin and Arbiters to switch places. Like... it's always, always bothered me that the one syndicate whose goal is peace in the Origin system is allied with... the Rabid Murderbros and the We're Totally Not Space Nazis club, instead of Steel Meridian, who are all about protecting the civilians of Origin, and Suda, who's basically Simaris Lite™.

Tbh lore-wise reasoning behing Syndicates relationship is very poorly described.

Why are Perrin and Meridian enemies? They are pursuing the same goal of fighting for the ordinary people. Because racism? Maybe, but isn't factions' propaganda exactly what they are fighting against? And aren't they like 50 meters away from each other on the Relays anyway?

Why are Meridian and Veil allies? One is a rebel organisation which can't be very old, as Cressa said, Metidian exist solely because of Relays and the Tenno. The other is an ancient f***ed up miniature Imperium of Man cosplay with it's spiritual leader being long dead, his mind trapped confronting an eldrich deity, and his followers degraded into a religious cult. What in the system can those two have in common?

Why is Suda allied with practically anyone but Simaris? She's fairly egoistic in her goals and seeks only how to entertain her curiosity, obtain knowledge and cure progressing amnesia. Simaris (or Irmis as she calls him) seems to be the only one she has something in common with (except for music taste).

The f*** New Loka even doing in the Relays? I understand that Tenno are not particularly famous for noble motivations or being picky for allies, but this... organisation must be too much even for them. They most of all resemble an explosive mixture of dogmatism, racism, xenophobia and green activism. They should've been given one way ticket to the Tau as a 'scout team' with a timed explosive aboard their ship... wait... don't they actually propose the exact same philosophy as the Sentient by the way? The hell is even wrong with them?!

This list can go on and on and the moral here is that syndicates lore isn't exactly well done. They could've at least been properly organised and resembled a three side equal confrontation to be interesting to engage with, but they don't do even that.

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22 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

the real question is: when will be able to 'negotiate' custom relationships among Syndicates? I'm tired to see the same dynamic... there so much potential entirely unexplored in the concept of Syndicates, it's really a pity

Syndicates 2.0 in time for the New War? I'm hoping for a bunch of treaties and temporary truces. 

 

18 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Tbh lore-wise reasoning behing Syndicates relationship is very poorly described.

Why are Perrin and Meridian enemies? They are pursuing the same goal of fighting for the ordinary people. Because racism? Maybe, but isn't factions' propaganda exactly what they are fighting against? And aren't they like 50 meters away from each other on the Relays anyway?

Why are Meridian and Veil allies? One is a rebel organisation which can't be very old, as Cressa said, Metidian exist solely because of Relays and the Tenno. The other is an ancient f***ed up miniature Imperium of Man cosplay with it's spiritual leader being long dead, his mind trapped confronting an eldrich deity, and his followers degraded into a religious cult. What in the system can those two have in common?

Why is Suda allied with practically anyone but Simaris? She's fairly egoistic in her goals and seeks only how to entertain her curiosity, obtain knowledge and cure progressing amnesia. Simaris (or Irmis as she calls him) seems to be the only one she has something in common with (except for music taste).

The f*** New Loka even doing in the Relays? I understand that Tenno are not particularly famous for noble motivations or being picky for allies, but this... organisation must be too much even for them. They most of all resemble an explosive mixture of dogmatism, racism, xenophobia and green activism. They should've been given one way ticket to the Tau as a 'scout team' with a timed explosive aboard their ship... wait... don't they actually propose the exact same philosophy as the Sentient by the way? The hell is even wrong with them?!

This list can go on and on and the moral here is that syndicates lore isn't exactly well done. They could've at least been properly organised and resembled a three side equal confrontation to be interesting to engage with, but they don't do even that.

If they're all fighting for the common good (won't say Greater Good because damn Tau) they should all be at least be allies by necessity. Maybe if they cut the hostilities so you could pick three factions to side with and the other three viewed you as neutral but not as a threat. The only reason I see having to pick three Syndicates is because otherwise you could get all 6 and get a lot of rewards that way. I get the idea of not wanting to work together because of differences since it's basically the closest we get to politics in Warframe, but these factions trying to kill each other makes little sense when the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested are constantly trying to expand and take control of everything. And now the Sentients are getting more involved. They all somehow exist in the same relay but are hostile to each other, maybe if they were in different relays or areas like Iron Wake for Steel Meridian. That would make it less convenient though, and right now you're right that there's not much to do with them. I mostly just use standing for easy relic packs at this point. The occasional augment or arch weapon too. 

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56 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

but these factions trying to kill each other makes little sense when the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested are constantly trying to expand and take control of everything

In addition to making Perrin and Meridian shameless hypocrites: "Oh, you're also fighting for the inocent you say, but it seems you're not doing it our way, so guess you die now 🤷‍♂️"

56 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

They all somehow exist in the same relay but are hostile to each other, maybe if they were in different relays or areas like Iron Wake for Steel Meridian.

Yeah, I mean, don't they think those New Loka are damn dangerous. What if they didn't like something Veil guys say behind the wall and suddenly decide to cleanse the unclean by annihilating the Relay? They really should get a fitting hub instance...

Spoiler

...like a system-wide biowaste dump.

 

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10 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

In addition to making Perrin and Meridian shameless hypocrites: "Oh, you're also fighting for the inocent you say, but it seems you're not doing it our way, so guess you die now 🤷‍♂️"

Yeah, I mean, don't they think those New Loka are damn dangerous. What if they didn't like something Veil guys say behind the wall and suddenly decide to cleanse the unclean by annihilating the Relay? They really should get a fitting hub instance...

  Reveal hidden contents

...like a system-wide biowaste dump.

 

 

 

Pretty much this, a direct case of lore and gameplay conflicting. 

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18 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

 

Ah yeah, good stuff. You know, despite his S#&$posting nature BNP is actually very good at the lore. Which makes his videos even more hilarious.

 

Also where's my Cataclysm Syndicate, where you earn standing by feeding it formas, and the top tier offering is being alive when it comes for our world

Spoiler

v8p5mbxd2y241.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, ant99999 said:

Ah yeah, good stuff. You know, despite his S#&$posting nature BNP is actually very good at the lore. Which makes his videos even more hilarious.

 

Also where's my Cataclysm Syndicate, where you earn standing by feeding it formas, and the top tier offering is being alive when it comes for our world

  Reveal hidden contents

v8p5mbxd2y241.jpg

 

He's my favorite Warframe partner, and he's not even an official partner. I don't much care to watch someone play a game, I'd rather play it myself. That's why S#&$posters are my favorite posters. His Corpus language video was actually rather enlightening too. 

 

 

Here's the other Perrin video I was thinking of. 

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21 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Tbh lore-wise reasoning behing Syndicates relationship is very poorly described.

Yes, in the game. There are supplementary lore sources for them, especially Cephalon Cordylon.

21 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Why are Perrin and Meridian enemies? They are pursuing the same goal of fighting for the ordinary people. Because racism? Maybe, but isn't factions' propaganda exactly what they are fighting against?

Cordylon 12: "Although Steel Meridian and the Perrin Sequence do not conflict in an ideological sense, years of strife between the Grineer and any non-Grineer organisations may have contributed to their dislike of each other. Both Syndicates also prefer different methods to resolving conflict – one by force and one by absence of participation."

22 hours ago, ant99999 said:

And aren't they like 50 meters away from each other on the Relays anyway?

Also Cordylon 12: "Syndicates that wish to work with the Tenno abide by our rules both within Relays and in Relay space. While they no doubt quarrel with one another, how they spend their efforts outside Tenno-controlled territory is of no concern to the Lotus; however, we encourage all Syndicates to seek peaceful means of resolving interpersonal conflicts. While we do receive reports of open violence between Syndicate operatives that encounter each other on the field, more often than not disputes can be settled in a less barbaric manner. The Lotus has on more than one occasion arranged for third-party negotiators to help settle disagreements on trade goods or other points of contention between rival Syndicates."

22 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Why are Meridian and Veil allies? One is a rebel organisation which can't be very old, as Cressa said, Metidian exist solely because of Relays and the Tenno. The other is an ancient f***ed up miniature Imperium of Man cosplay with it's spiritual leader being long dead, his mind trapped confronting an eldrich deity, and his followers degraded into a religious cult. What in the system can those two have in common?

While we learned a lot about Red Veil mysticism in Chains of Harrow, the Red Veil is still a resistance movement against the Grineer and Corpus. They've been fighting against them for years. The two groups are quite similar in terms of short-term goals, if not ideology.

22 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Why is Suda allied with practically anyone but Simaris? She's fairly egoistic in her goals and seeks only how to entertain her curiosity, obtain knowledge and cure progressing amnesia. Simaris (or Irmis as she calls him) seems to be the only one she has something in common with (except for music taste).

Suda is obsessed with knowledge. However, like Simaris, she requires human agents to help her obtain it. That is why she is allied with the Tenno. The Arbiters of Hexis are obsessed with the ancient ways of the Tenno, and likely wish to know more about them – thus they share the same goals.

Side note: Suda's amnesia has already been cured by her conversion into a cephalon. Her most recently observed issues were due to the influence of Hunhow.

22 hours ago, ant99999 said:

The f*** New Loka even doing in the Relays? I understand that Tenno are not particularly famous for noble motivations or being picky for allies, but this... organisation must be too much even for them. They most of all resemble an explosive mixture of dogmatism, racism, xenophobia and green activism. They should've been given one way ticket to the Tau as a 'scout team' with a timed explosive aboard their ship... wait... don't they actually propose the exact same philosophy as the Sentient by the way? The hell is even wrong with them?!

This just appears to be a question of priorities. Maybe the Lotus shares their goal of a restored Earth, and doesn't care what else they do to get there. New Loka is also very likely involved in battles against the Grineer and Infested.

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5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Yes, in the game. There are supplementary lore sources for them, especially Cephalon Cordylon.

Well apart from Cordylon by himself being a rather lazy way of retroactively closing up holes in lore, I have some concerns about reasons he gives.

5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Although Steel Meridian and the Perrin Sequence do not conflict in an ideological sense, years of strife between the Grineer and any non-Grineer organisations may have contributed to their dislike of each other. Both Syndicates also prefer different methods to resolving conflict – one by force and one by absence of participation.

First of all they cannot be considered 'Grineer' or 'Corpus' organisations any longer, that's the exact reason why people believe they should've been allied. Secondly, they still instead of being two battle-hardened pragmatic rebellions end up being childish hyppocrites actively undermining each other's efforts of opposing major factions by creating literal bloodshed between each other out of nowhere. Their leaders occupy rooms literally 50 meters away from each other and still they never bothered negotiating in anyway being like

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5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Syndicates that wish to work with the Tenno abide by our rules both within Relays and in Relay space. While they no doubt quarrel with one another, how they spend their efforts outside Tenno-controlled territory is of no concern to the Lotus; however, we encourage all Syndicates to seek peaceful means of resolving interpersonal conflicts. While we do receive reports of open violence between Syndicate operatives that encounter each other on the field, more often than not disputes can be settled in a less barbaric manner. The Lotus has on more than one occasion arranged for third-party negotiators to help settle disagreements on trade goods or other points of contention between rival Syndicates.

Ah yes the Tenno being the Tenno. A proud alliance of the most democratic factions of the system, bravely defending weak and innocent working as one...

...till the exact moment there's an Orokin Reactor lying on the ground between them. Then it's civil war all over the place.

5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

While we learned a lot about Red Veil mysticism in Chains of Harrow, the Red Veil is still a resistance movement against the Grineer and Corpus. They've been fighting against them for years. The two groups are quite similar in terms of short-term goals, if not ideology.

That's a fair point. This event happened before I joined the game so I forgot it existed.

Still can't hold myself from pointing out how overly modest (or proficient in trolling) Cantis is. Like "O, mighty Tenno, don't mind us Red Veil peasants! While you wielding the most powerful weaponry of the Orokin era were proudly fighting an army of militaristic anacephalus degenerates and nearly lost all your Relays in the process, all we achieved is holding up against a literal Yog Sothoth wanbabe from the Void for a millenium being hidden from the Lotus all along."

5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

The Arbiters of Hexis are obsessed with the ancient ways of the Tenno, and likely wish to know more about the

We don't know what the Arbiters are even obsessed with apart from their rhetoric being suspiciously similar to Teshin's (as BNP noticed in his video), because these guys have literally no lore apart from their only gimmick which can be summarised as "The Tenno must prove themselces worthy"

5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

Side note: Suda's amnesia has already been cured by her conversion into a cephalon. Her most recently observed issues were due to the influence of Hunhow.

I have more reffered to the consequences of her amnesia as an Archemedian which she still couldn't fix and which are most likely the motivation of her forming a Syndicate of her own name.

5 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

This just appears to be a question of priorities. Maybe the Lotus shares their goal of a restored Earth, and doesn't care what else they do to get there. New Loka is also very likely involved in battles against the Grineer and Infested.

Well I just don't know. Having a sect of Orokin hating green activists in all your Relays probably with access to all the intelligence data while fighting a sect of Orokin hating green activist (insectoid robots).

What could possibly go wrong? 🤔

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Arbiters are not just conclave, but also arbitration.

And, like some others have noted, some syndicates have quests. So if there were some kind of grineer fomorian attack that knocked New Loka back to the stone age ... ok, bad example (we might not be able to tell the difference)... but if something took them off the map, their quests would have to have new hosts (or the main storyline / progression would have to be altered or maybe Titania non-prime would be vaulted?)

Food for thought. And my thoughts are a mite bit hungry...

Edited by Fleuria
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