Tired of reworks

[ThumpumGood]

Before I start, I am NOT bashing DE or the game. Im speaking my mind and giving a point of view the devs may not have heard or considered.

Im exhausted by having to rethink frames I was done setting up to be meta for me and my playstyle.  Even though I understand maintaining a balance, it still frustrates me. I also understand that with the advent of new programming, hardware and just keeping things fresh, updates and reworks happen. It still doesn't change the gnawing idea that it isnt worth my time to go through all of the leveling, testing and hours of playing to get the frame or weapon to where it's just right for me because, more than likely, they will be reworked. Within 'ME', it kills the desire to play. As I said in the beginning, this is NOT bashing DE or the game. I love the game. It's the only game of this type I have ever enjoyed. And just as a frame of reference, I've been playing PC games since they were text based games. 

I also realize Warframe is actually still a Beta and wont be out of Beta until there is MR30. I still plan on playing Warframe, spending money to support the game and having fun with it. But not until the point where I see it as no longer being Beta.  To keep from allowing something that I have no control over from causing me anguish, Im just going to wait it out and return after MR30 is possible. Im still logging in almost every day and will continue to do so. I miss the days of games being complete when they enter the market and will just have to be patient for the day when it is complete.

The only reason I posted this is that I have been asked by all of my WF friends in discord and Im getting tired of answering the same question over and over. Now I can just tell them to read the post/link it in the discord channels.  Last time, This is NOT bashing DE or the game. This is just an explanation of why Im not currently playing. Take it as negatively as you like but your negative take is wrong.

 

 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

20 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

I miss the days of games being complete when they enter the market and will just have to be patient for the day when it is complete.

I think you're completely missing the point of the games as a service model...

Warframe will be out of beta when the servers shut down...

[Sentinel-14]

14 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Before I start, I am NOT bashing DE or the game. Im speaking my mind and giving a point of view the devs may not have heard or considered.

Im exhausted by having to rethink frames I was done setting up to be meta for me and my playstyle.  Even though I understand maintaining a balance, it still frustrates me. I also understand that with the advent of new programming, hardware and just keeping things fresh, updates and reworks happen. It still doesn't change the gnawing idea that it isnt worth my time to go through all of the leveling, testing and hours of playing to get the frame or weapon to where it's just right for me because, more than likely, they will be reworked. Within 'ME', it kills the desire to play. As I said in the beginning, this is NOT bashing DE or the game. I love the game. It's the only game of this type I have ever enjoyed. And just as a frame of reference, I've been playing PC games since they were text based games.

This sounds like you're more a single-player-game type person. Only in single-player games can they launch the game and leave it unchanged. Any multiplayer game (competitive or co-op) where there are regular additions there will also necessarily be balance changes. As time goes on and more things are added, the more likely it becomes that something you've grown accustomed to will have to change.

14 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

I also realize Warframe is actually still a Beta and wont be out of Beta until there is MR30. I still plan on playing Warframe, spending money to support the game and having fun with it. But not until the point where I see it as no longer being Beta.  To keep from allowing something that I have no control over from causing me anguish, Im just going to wait it out and return after MR30 is possible. I'm still logging in almost every day and will continue to do so. I miss the days of games being complete when they enter the market and will just have to be patient for the day when it is complete.

Warframe will always be in Beta. Live-service games anymore are all permanently-beta, practically if not technically/legally. DE will never put something in the game and say "well that's that, it's locked in and we're not going change it." Like you I miss the days when games were complete at launch, but those days are gone. Very few games ever launch 'complete' anymore and Warframe will be no different. It will never be 'complete.' At best, it will go into stagnation if/when they start working on a new game and cease development, but it will never be 'finished.'

14 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

The only reason I posted this is that I have been asked by all of my WF friends in discord and Im getting tired of answering the same question over and over. Now I can just tell them to read the post/link it in the discord channels.  Last time, This is NOT bashing DE or the game. This is just an explanation of why Im not currently playing. Take it as negatively as you like but your negative take is wrong.

Everyone reaches their breaking point eventually. You've apparently reached yours. Nothing wrong with that. But if you stick to your plan of not coming back until the game is done, well... this is where we part ways Tenno. Been nice knowing you.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

The game will continue to evolve and change. Changes some will like and changes some will not. I played for 5 years before I quit, and it has changed considerably since then and I see no end in sight. They have big goals, and in order to reach big goals, they have to make those big changes, often times leaving a small niche of players behind in order to pave way for a new majority. 

[chaotea]

Its a valid opinion, and while i dont agree, I can see your point.

For me, Ive been playing for along time, and frames like saryn, wukong and limbo are good examples for me of why i enjoy re-works.

Limbo used to be pure cancer. I didnt like using him, but hated having him in the same team (though i'd never abuse anyone, thats not cool). After the rework however, I found him fun to use. I actually like it when i see a limbo, as hes a great frost alternitive these days (mostly due to pre-rework being so hard to manage being in or out of rift if not limbo. Much easier now). So this rework took a frame i hated, and gave me something cool i liked.

Wukong was always a good frame, but was just so boring to use. You really felt that the empisis had been placed on lore and not gameplay. His rework though came with some great mechanics however, and its now very fun to play.

Saryn pre rework didnt interest me. I tried her, wasnt interested. People used here, and she seemed good, but I just didnt click with it. The Rework gave me an excuse to go back and try her again, and this time it clicked much better, so the rework helped me understand how to use it more.

 

So abit long winded, but what I mean here is that I view the re-works as a great oportunity to try something new. To revisit a warframe I maybe dont use. The nice thing about the meta changing with reworks is that I get to go back and try things I'd forgoten about, or discarded.

(NB: I realise its easier for me as I dont sell weapons or frames, so I still have them on me when they're reworked).

[SneakyErvin]

28 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

I miss the days of games being complete when they enter the market and will just have to be patient for the day when it is complete.

You might want to consider that online games arent for you because such a thing as a complete online game when released has never been a thing. No intent to bash or mock you, just stating the simple harsh facts. They constantly change and evolve and switch up the meta. It has just taken DE extra long to realize that it must be done.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The game might never be finished, but that also means that it'll never stop growing... At least not for a long time. It's kind of a double edged thing. 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

You probably had alot of fun trying to fine tune your warframes into the way you got em.   I appreciate the fact that sometimes they go extreme and change out animations and abilities and you may have loved them.   But look at it from the point of view of having to learn a new warframe and finding its new sweet spot for you.  

I use alot of different frames and am constantly fine tuning or redesigning lol.  They are always adding new warframes and for the most part I look forward to them.  

------------------

When you hear about changes coming for a frame you really like... record a video of you using your warframe the way you enjoy using it.  Then you can look at that when your feeling nostalgic.  

[ThumpumGood]

While I can see your point of "always be beta", I disagree. Base game will be out of beta but then you have expansions. I understand the process. I thought that by saying that I understood that there will always be software updates, would have made that clear. Even single player games, like Skyrim, get  updates and "mods" that provide enhancements. What I was referring to is reworks of established and functioning items that make building anything to it's end, an exercise in futility since it will be changed and never end. Somethings need to stay the same.  And as I stated in the OP, this is MY position.

Im willing to bet everyone has complained about the rework of the face of windows every time it's changed. Window  ME and 8/8.1 especially. This is not any different. You either get used to it, or got to OS or LINUX. You either get used to the changes or you do something different. And until MR30, I've chose to do something different. It's not a dig or a bash. I like Warframe A LOT. In the OP I stated it's the only game of this time I have ever liked. So you can speculate on my lack of awareness or level if disgruntlement all you like. This is the way I feel about it. I know other that feel this way, but not going to get into that. This is about an explanation why Im not currently playing.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

I never expected to see a forum thread dedicated entirely as a message to people on Discord.

[Drachnyn]

The word "beta" has lost all meaning when it comes to warframe. You can either see it as there is no finished state or that the "finished state" was the first public release and everything since has been expansions. It's just a word DE has never bothered to exclude because it really doesnt matter. At this point it cant be used to deflect complaints. Things in warframe will always be subject to change. MR 30 has nothing to do with the game being in a beta or not.

[IIDMOII]

Yep, this is why I'm taking a long hiatus.

The game isn't in a good spot right now imho. Railjack turned out to be a total piece of garbage, liches are still garbage. And now they're going back and breaking 7 years worth of combat.....but on live servers. (Smh).

I don't have time to be a free beta tester for digital extremes. I'll come back in a year and see what's up. 

Warframe is the easiest game on the market to walk away from. I can come back a year from now and not miss anything other than wasting resources and forma while they flip flop on untested changes.

See ya next time on "theres a 100 better games to spend my money on right now"!

 

 

[CaptainMinty]

4 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

Take it as negatively as you like but your negative take is wrong.

First off, rude. If I wanna take it negatively that doesn't mean I am immediately wrong. This finishing line here makes me take it negatively. How dare you.
 

4 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

The only reason I posted this is that I have been asked by all of my WF friends in discord and Im getting tired of answering the same question over and over. Now I can just tell them to read the post/link it in the discord channels.

If you are on a server, with friends, post it yourself in the channels. Please do not come to the forum to drop something not even meant for the forum. Is there a rule on this?

[3rdpig]

33 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

First off, rude. If I wanna take it negatively that doesn't mean I am immediately wrong. This finishing line here makes me take it negatively. How dare you.
 

If you are on a server, with friends, post it yourself in the channels. Please do not come to the forum to drop something not even meant for the forum. Is there a rule on this?

He dared, and he's done it. 

Ball's in your court now, whatchu gonna do?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

if anything I'd say we don't get enough reworks, and that it should never have taken this long for DE to look at the core game., but at least they are finally getting themselves in gear and are doing it, better late than never I suppose.

[Miser_able]

People wanted DE to take some time and focus more on reworking and fixing old content instead of adding new stuff. That's what we're getting. Guess DE can't please everyone. 

[trst]

If they stopped reworking things then what happens when the rest of the game creeps past it? Stamina worked well enough when the game released as did the old damage and movement systems. Should all of that have remained in place to prevent reworking it? What if at some point the current movement system just isn't enough just as the first wasn't?

The recent shield rework has made shield builds viable, something that hasn't been the case for several years now.

Even games that have a "fixed" base game and get content added around it eventually need reworks to the base game or it needs to be accepted that the base game content is pointless and instantly discarded once hitting everything else. If we had the latter then we'd have situations like Ember remaining an awful frame because she'd be "base game content" and the only hope of fixing her would be a new frame entirely that outright replaces her.

Or what about Archwing; sure it wasn't popular on release but it was in the exact same state for years until it got major changes. Should Archwing remain unchanged so people don't need to update their old builds that they would otherwise never use? Would you have prefered modular Archwings become the only ones usable in Railjack and equiping everything else hits you with a message of: "Currently equipped Archwing is incompatible with this game mode". Being forced through the process of getting something new that does the same thing might as well be a rework that deletes everything that was reworked.

[Immudzen]

Changes to game balance and the meta have existed since the first MMOs and been in every one after that. This just looks completely normal to me for this type of game. Everquest 1, Asheron's Call etc all had this kind of stuff. Overall Warframe has handled the changes quite well and fixed things rapidly that they changed too much. 

The game really could not keep going on the way it was though. The armor scaling was insane, shields where mostly pointless, many frames were not viable at all in high level content because they were one shot. The entire way scaling was done was screwing up the game and had to be redone. This impacts pretty much everything in the game.

[TiltingTenno]

Some reworks have worked out better than others. Not seeing many complaints about the Vauban rework. At the other end, Nyx rework wasn't very useful (sniff), Ember is still never used, and Titania is on what her 4th rework now in time for Prime?

There are some frames I miss playing (Nyx) and wouldn't mind see brought up into 2020. Banshee, for one. Hydroid could use some tweaking, so it's more than just a Pilfroid. And a Nyx 4 dmg buff turning her into a legitimate nuke DPS would be saweet. (Activate 4, teammates shoot her up, release 4, enemies go bye bye)

Also, rebalancing does need to be done for any game that releases new content, which thankfully DE is still doing.

[Marvelous_A]

That's what I call "dramatic".

The game is essentially the same. Unless before rework you only use double Energize, use Corrosive build on all weapons and abuse AoE weapons.

Most part of the game is arguably even easier now the armor scales with a S-curve and we have shield gate.

[vegetosayajin]

15 hours ago, ThumpumGood said:

Im exhausted by having to rethink frames I was done setting up to be meta for me and my playstyle.

Just one question, what has changed?
The only frame I changed the build for in months is ember and "changed" is a big exaggeration, I flipped some mods around.
All of the others "survived" and are still with a "meta" build without me changing a thing.

[Toran]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb ThumpumGood:

Before I start, I am NOT bashing DE or the game. Im speaking my mind and giving a point of view the devs may not have heard or considered.

Im exhausted by having to rethink frames I was done setting up to be meta for me and my playstyle.  Even though I understand maintaining a balance, it still frustrates me. I also understand that with the advent of new programming, hardware and just keeping things fresh, updates and reworks happen. It still doesn't change the gnawing idea that it isnt worth my time to go through all of the leveling, testing and hours of playing to get the frame or weapon to where it's just right for me because, more than likely, they will be reworked. Within 'ME', it kills the desire to play. As I said in the beginning, this is NOT bashing DE or the game. I love the game. It's the only game of this type I have ever enjoyed. And just as a frame of reference, I've been playing PC games since they were text based games. 

I also realize Warframe is actually still a Beta and wont be out of Beta until there is MR30. I still plan on playing Warframe, spending money to support the game and having fun with it. But not until the point where I see it as no longer being Beta.  To keep from allowing something that I have no control over from causing me anguish, Im just going to wait it out and return after MR30 is possible. Im still logging in almost every day and will continue to do so. I miss the days of games being complete when they enter the market and will just have to be patient for the day when it is complete.

The only reason I posted this is that I have been asked by all of my WF friends in discord and Im getting tired of answering the same question over and over. Now I can just tell them to read the post/link it in the discord channels.  Last time, This is NOT bashing DE or the game. This is just an explanation of why Im not currently playing. Take it as negatively as you like but your negative take is wrong.

 

 

I'm feeling with you there, especially since the changes aren't very meaningful unless you  care about the utmost minmax.

Took me four days to even peek into the patch notes. Good news is you hardly need to change your builds. At least to me all rather feels "samish" if a bit off for corrosive damage (no more dropship shredding)

If you're a long-term vet with lotsa badass Rivens, chances are high, most stuff works the same as before, overkill stays overkill. With a few exceptions like Chroma, the big loser of this update, and the odd double-arcane builds (I still doubt it's a substantial percentage of players), it's (boring) business as usual.

About the beta: "release" games constantly change too, see Destiny 2 and Division 2 and I understand the beta in Warframe as a 7 year-old running gag.

[ThumpumGood]

On 2020-03-09 at 6:23 PM, Miser_able said:

People wanted DE to take some time and focus more on reworking and fixing old content instead of adding new stuff. That's what we're getting. Guess DE can't please everyone. 

I dont play a 7 year old game expecting to change everything I spent loads of time on to get it right. Some stuff should remain the same. And much of it due to whining. This game used to be hardcore. Imagine being in a group during a time when you only got 3 deaths PER DAY at MR10 or less, hanging out over a ledge looking at the exit when you're down to your last death with a group that was still going when the NPC level was over 300 begging to leave because you knew that if you died you were done playing for the day. These little whines about frames needing tweaks when that's the Warframe you remember, the Warframe where "get good" had meaning, and then having things changed in a major way making all of that actual work a pointless act of futility, it's upsetting. The game got easy. And I understand the monetary aspect. You make it too hard you make it less viable financially. So some of that had to happen. What Im doing is what I feel is the best way to minimized that aspect. All the returned formas dont make up for time lost and so Im going to wait it out til MR30 is a thing. And MR30 because I have yet to see an indication that a higher MR hasn't been considered(check the number of training stations at the relays). Everyone seems to focus on what appears to be negative instead of looking at the part that says I like Warframe. I dont think anyone likes their time wasted. A boss saying the report has to be redone because of changes, You have to reroute your trip because of changes, etc. But you get paid to work. This is my free time. This is a leisure activity. I dont like it being wasted by doing the same thing over and over. So excuse me if Im a bit miffed at having to redo a warframe or doing it 2 or 3 times. It makes my time wasted and unless Im getting paid to waste my time, I choose to wait for the most of it to blow over so that I dont feel like my play time is wasted.

MMO's do become complete. They get expansions. I personally think that Railjack should have been "an expansion" and that the focus should be on getting the game to MR30 (completion) before creating expansion stuff.  I know that's not how things are done and my actions are to minimize the wasted time.

[ThumpumGood]

13 hours ago, Toran said:

I'm feeling with you there, especially since the changes aren't very meaningful unless you  care about the utmost minmax.

 

I "sorta" min/max. I do what's meta for me and my playstyle, not THE meta for the game. Im not the best, but I am the best at my style. Hell, I soloed the Orb Mother. Took a while to get there, but I did it... barely. And only once. Too much time and stress to do it more than that. 7 min Eidolon solo(single not triple) first solo and YouTubed it to help people as a training vid. Died once. Still get that sinking feeling that I only have 2 lives left for the day =D.  But I do my thing so that I can be the best I can for the team Im in. I dont wanna be "that guy" that has to be rezzed a lot or cant do enough damge to be useful(outside of dragging newbs to level them up- you dont have the mods to be uber, you're not expected to be).

I've loved Warframe since day one. Still do.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I don't mind the rework and revisit. There's a lot of glaring issue with some of the mechanics in the game. Like pet AI. Having to redo forma investments, rank up the item back to 30, waste time to test out a specific build only to find out it isn't working as one vision it to be, isn't something I enjoy. I just wish the simlucrum would just remove mod capacity limit so we can put in any mod for testing purposes.