Is no one going to talk about how archwing blink and archwing weapons are straight up garbage now?

[Ssalem]

Me and my friend who hasn't played in ages queued up for a thermia fractures mission.  Holy hell, is getting from one side of the map to the other a giant pain. Straight up noped out of there after just one mission. Not touching open world missions until they fix this.

Also tried using my archwing in railjack. It was an awful experience. So much space, yet it takes ages to get anywhere with blink being no help. Also archwing weapons in railjack are bad, being unable to hit anything. Why?

Edited March 9, 2020 by [DE]Saske
removed profanity

[GPrime96]

Everyone already knew that

[AEP8FlyBoy]

They made Archguns in Empyrean all projectile based, and took away Archmelee auto-targeting, and didn't even bother touching them for the most part.

To this day, almost 3 months after Railjack launched out of the torpedo tube and landed flat on its face, I still believe that they made Archguns less appealing in comparison to Railjack to encourage players to use their Turrets instead, because two of them are still hit scan. (Pulsar and Photor)

Doesn't help that until you get basic MK III items (because building any of the other tiers isn't worth it), you're stuck to flying around with the Amesha / Cyngas, and parking your squishy as heck Railjack behind a rock or at the edge of the map until you win.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

I actually agree with you. DE doesn't seem to know what they want to do with Archwings... Open world areas would be more fun if there was a crossover synergy between Warframes and AWs but those rockets are non-stop knocking you out of the air. Half the purpose is mobility around the map, so who cares if players spam blink? 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I would enjoy my 4 forma amesha more if I wasn't shot down every five second upon using that archwing launcher. 

[Avienas]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)LoneWolf_001 said:

I actually agree with you. DE doesn't seem to know what they want to do with Archwings... Open world areas would be more fun if there was a crossover synergy between Warframes and AWs but those rockets are non-stop knocking you out of the air. Half the purpose is mobility around the map, so who cares if players spam blink? 

Its simple, they speed the fk up on the gun velocity so it feels closer to a hit scan weapon but still requires some actual aiming, make the guns still able to deal damage but still require a little bit of extra time on higher levels vs. using railjack turrets, which honestly needs more buffs since without the good old armor stripping combo auras its still a noticable annoyance.

Not to mention they need to change how enemy lock-on rockets work, if they target archwings (which they should not be doing that anymore honestly) it has a proper updated ver of alerting you about it and doing a quick blink or proper ability would immediately YEET the rockets off you, but there needs to always be a 4 to 6 second delay before any rocket can hit you regardless of distance so point blank rockets cant auto yeet you.

Also obviously they need to vastly update the velocity in flight mode for archwings, vs its standing mode that most use for precise aiming, Plus also doubles back on why i said archguns need more velocity cause if you can literally fly faster then your bullets due to hyperion thrusters, theirs clearly a fking problem with archguns.

Especially when FRICTION does not exist in space last i checked, so something like a mother fking space-gun with already high velocity bullets should be flying a hell of alot faster in space-based maps then atmosphere based maps.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Avienas

[kapn655321]

The whole archwing ability concept is being stripped and remade into a modular system.

Blink was only ever spammed like hell, and was the only reason for Itzal.
It made Itzal the only choice for anything, because it could insta-spam a power across the map.
Flight system is part of the archwing experience, and Blink as a power totally ruined that..
so they gave blink a slight cooldown/indicator onto every archwing.

There is a bonus for blink cooldown in empyrean, if that's your thing.
Spam teleporting, spam energy pizza, spam teleport, spam pizza... It broke archwing.
The movement mechanics are supposed to be good, so they were reworked for a 4th time in order to achieve that, before removing Blink power.

There may well be cooldowns for blink as a mod eventually, but it will not be a power again, because it was stupid OP.

"But what if I like stupid OP?" ...does it fit the game, or totally and completely subvert and undermine development and player efforts?
Blink did. It NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT OUT AS IT WAS, and it took WAY too long to remove it...
but they also had to make a flight system that people could generally enjoy without nausea, first.. which they did.

[Podge]

3 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Its simple, they speed the fk up on the gun velocity so it feels closer to a hit scan weapon but still requires some actual aiming, make the guns still able to deal damage but still require a little bit of extra time on higher levels vs. using railjack turrets, which honestly needs more buffs since without the good old armor stripping combo auras its still a noticable annoyance.

Not to mention they need to chance how rockets work, if they target archwings (which they should not be doing that anymore honestly) it has a proper updated ver of alerts and doing a quick blink or proper ability would immediately YEET the rockets off you, but there needs to always be a 4 to 6 second delay before any rocket can hit you regardless of distance so point blank rockets cant auto yeet you.

Also obviously they need to vastly update the velocity in flight mode for archwings, vs its standing mode that most use for precise aiming, Plus also doubles back on why i said archguns need more velocity cause if you can literally fly faster then your bullets due to hyperion thrusters, theirs clearly a fking problem with archguns.

Especially when FRICTION does not exist in space last i checked, so something like a mother fking space-gun with already high velocity bullets should be flying a hell of alot faster in space-based maps then atmosphere based maps.

also, inherited momentum would be nice. i dont know if warframe has it but if it does i havent noticed it or it's different enough from the other 6DOF shooters i play that it throws off my aim.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

Well, remaining silent won't solve the issue. Feedback is important, as are solutions to the lackluster state of Archwing content. Amesha remains the most viable because of survivability. DE is holding out for modular Archwings, but even that won't resolve the issues of survivability & lack of power that the other Archwings suffer from. It's all the more imperative for DE to acknowledge the issues presently facing us before pushing out new content & wondering why people dislike it. Odonata is supposed to to be the all-rounder, Elytron is the heavy artillery with high defensive value, Amesha acts as a stable support & Itzal is the fast & stealthy infiltrator. Ironic that only one of the four Archwings fits their role well enough to be meta. As for the weapons themselves, we all know the issues archmelee & archguns face. DE's continued silence doesn't help the situation one bit.

[Hellmaker2004]

I like the Archwing Blink.
The replacement ability that Itzel got however was kinda .... i hope it is a placeholder.

And overall Archwing is ok in Railjack there are like two to three things i think they maybe should change. 
The 0.05 damage Multiplier into a 0.1 Multiplier,
Increase the projectile speed of guns, all of them. Some slightly more than other.
And finally the Damage of the Crewship's is still to high and need to be decreased versus Archwing.

[kapn655321]

10 minutes ago, Podge said:

6DOF

We used to have that, but players hated it.

Archwings have been a neat idea that could never find their footing On Budget.
The things they wanted to do with them didn't (and in some cases still don't) exist in the game yet..
and the things we Could do with them for years were Way too tight and fast for 6DOF..

They also have to Attempt to balance in things like.. "Well, we can't just let them do everything by sniping from archwing.. so there needs to be a way to knock them out of archwing.." and everyone hates that. Knockdowns are super obnoxious, but what's the alternative? Total immunity from anything, never interacting with the open world, caves, etc.. Just fly and snipe.. and the limitations on open world for aerial units just doesn't make sense to leave us airborne to enjoy ourselves to the intent of that world..

Archwing is like an image negative of a missing link..
It's the link between all the things that it just can't do until the game catches up.
...Sadly, it was the cart before the horse, and a Ton of resources and countless hours were lost in trying to shoehorn it into a role that never existed..

So what it is now (archwing), is this disjointed system of over-budget rushed compromises and broken dreams.

I hope the modular system has an engine for the Different Flight Styles through the years... so we can finally use them for what they were made for.
I hope DE gets to see Archwing realized as what it was always supposed to be... rather than the chimera that's been duct-taped together for having been released 4 years too soon.
I have faith they'll get it where it needs to be, but BE PATIENT... these mistakes have cost them a fortune.. no need to rub it in.. they're trying, and they also want it to be good.

Edited March 9, 2020 by kapn655321

[OvisCaedo]

10 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Blink was only ever spammed like hell, and was the only reason for Itzal.
It made Itzal the only choice for anything, because it could insta-spam a power across the map.
Flight system is part of the archwing experience, and Blink as a power totally ruined that..
so they gave blink a slight cooldown/indicator onto every archwing.

Itzal was not "the only choice for anything", it was the best choice for the empty monotony of moving across open worlds. It was a design problem with the landscapes themselves that this was the only thing anyone had reason to care about. Maybe there would have been more variety if all powers hadn't been severely gimped for landscapes, if enemies didn't spam archwing deletion rockets, or if the landscapes were anything other than pointless empty wastelands so that DE could try to clumsily ape popular gaming trends. Blink spam wasn't really an "issue" in actual Archwing content, not that anyone runs it.

I don't really CARE that blink was changed/removed, though. It's fine. Nice to have it on other wings. but it's ridiculous how people still try to act like it was a vital and necessary balance change.

ANYHOW. On the general archwing subject, plenty of people talked about how awful archwings, archguns, and archmelee are now. But it was done VERY intentionally by DE presumably to force usage of railjack turrets, and with all loud feedback about it already pointedly ignored, so most people probably don't talk about it any more because they've both given up and just don't care about railjack.

[CopperBezel]

Between 6DoF, airplane, and helicopter movement, helicopter makes the most direct parallel to moving on the ground, and aside from the bizarre and incredibly awkward loss of the backward flight animation, I think they've more or less nailed that down. I think of Railjack as having been good for archwing in that sense. 

But archwing is two piles of content, one old and janky, one new and messy. Railjack itself seems uncertain whether or not archwings are really meant to be a part of the mode, and also has a damage system that makes absolutely no sense with archwing weapons. (It sure would have been nice to get a decent new archwing mode instead, but some people like driving their spacebuses I guess.)

[Avienas]

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

But archwing is two piles of content, one old and janky, one new and messy. Railjack itself seems uncertain whether or not archwings are really meant to be a part of the mode, and also has a damage system that makes absolutely no sense with archwing weapons. (It sure would have been nice to get a decent new archwing mode instead, but some people like driving their spacebuses I guess.)

This is why i keep going over them needing to polish old content, way before they introduce NEW systems that link to extensive use of said content. This is why i will keep bashing the fissure system for them FAILING to update it when they thought to cram this whole kuva relic system in with kuva liches, instead of keeping it a clear cut & contained system, which i still want to happen, Aka no Relics, no Kuva Lich mods, just let us stab the lich, hunt them down and finish it off in some one on one boss fight with them, Which they could easily re`use any previous boss base room for an easy pletora of maps if they dont wanna make unique arenas for the lich. Even if it would be pretty neat if they get some extra fight gimmicks then just be another shadow stalker with nothing impressive on them besides some kind of super elite Nox unit that Frocks most ways to deal with them.

In terms of Railjack, they need to simplify loads of things, make archwings got a little more mobility on them, buff the shot velocity & maybe even have some hit box reticle indicator if its not in yet on archwing so when your aiming at something it changes to a different color to indicator you can HIT the dang enemy if you start farming, Even in railjack having a bead tracker is kind of bad since sometimes you could be firing while lined up with that bead and the bullets sometimes magically dont track.

Plus in terms of damage types just for frocks sakes, make it 5 damage type periods, No Slash/Impact/Puncture Variants, just call it Physical and give it a simple effect that causes more damage as you repeatedly shoot something in a short period of time with higher damage per shot building up that effect alot quicker. Honestly i would say they could cut the elemental types down to 3 also, but that would be a headache, when it could be as simple as gut toxin and just make it Heat for lasers, electric for energy disabling & scrambler shots and cold would be to mess with engine output and stalling systems, Which could double as a nice way to YEET sentient fighters and once we eventually get infested aka the biological `ship`s that should be suspectable to being burned by lasers or put in some high-cold state.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Avienas

[kapn655321]

11 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

the empty monotony of moving across open worlds

That's the map's fault, not the archwing... so it should not be expected of the archwing to once again fit that role. What constitutes and empty map depends on what the player is trying to get out of it. To some people, I understand that Open world = Boss fight and leave. End of story.

I agree that it would be great for the open worlds to be more robust and engaging, with lots of highly detailed varied nooks that fit every type of player. (I'm sure DE would agree with you.)  Probably will get it some day... _{I'd love more K-drive parks and fishing holes, neat little side missions..} more is better in open worlds. Endlessly more. More than can even be developed. We don't have the whole of experience they want Warframe to be. _{In a perfect world..} Empyrean has been part of the dream for the bigger picture for roughly a decade.. if that gives you a measure of how tall that order is. No matter the scope, we dream faster than anyone could develop a game. Any quality of movies/games can take years to make.. the greatest of which can always easily go over budget/time, or have to cut big plans last minute. ...though we still want to mess around and dream about those deleted scenes, and wish those were part of it, too.

A true masterpiece is never finished. Take that how you will.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Railjack in general is really bad and unfinished.

Squad link isn't finished, kuva integration isn't finished, balancing isn't even close to decent, rewards.. what rewards? More gear for a ship I have no incentive flying in?

Fact of the matter is, considering the state arcanes are in right now, I don't really feel in the least motivated to play this new event. Sure, if it has some lore, I'm willing to give it a run or two, but I'm fairly sure that I'll consider it as boring as the rest of railjack.

[GrimAtrament]

wait your saying there was a point that archwing weapons were not garbage?

[CopperBezel]

I'm hoping that I can get the arcanes from doing the ground side of the Squad Link and ignoring the actual Railjack parts so I can get a set of Avenger. Energize, Guardian, and Grace are all boring, I have Bodyguard for my frames that use Sentinels, and otherwise I'm very happy with my r5 sets of Strike and Phantasm, but I can always use more crit.

Edit: 

1 minute ago, hazerddex said:

wait your saying there was a point that archwing weapons were not garbage?

Sure, it was the point at which they could only be used on level 30 system map enemies. X ]

Edited March 11, 2020 by CopperBezel

[GrimAtrament]

3 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

I'm hoping that I can get the arcanes from doing the ground side of the Squad Link and ignoring the actual Railjack parts so I can get a set of Avenger. Energize, Guardian, and Grace are all boring, I have Bodyguard for my frames that use Sentinels, and otherwise I'm very happy with my r5 sets of Strike and Phantasm, but I can always use more crit.

Edit: 

Sure, it was the point at which they could only be used on level 30 system map enemies. X ]

i don't believe you archwing guns have always been crap compared to warframe guns 

[CopperBezel]

Sure, they did smaller damage numbers, but as long as they existed in separate universes we didn't have to compare them directly. Though I suppose that broke down as soon as there were Dargyns we could shoot with normal guns, since those showed up in Archwing but also Kuva Fortress and PoE.