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Armor and shield changes were an indirect buff to Mag


Vespilan
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Just wanted to point out that while corrossive now only temporarily removes armor and enemies are affected by shield gating, Mag can still permanently remove armor and shields in a huge AoE radius. And to those who still think Mag is bad, here's a short display of power with all builds shown without any rivens necessary. 
Not to mention shields got buffed, Mag has the ability to restore shields as much as she likes and she can't be oneshot anymore because shield gating, all in all granting her insane survivability. 
 

 

Edited by Vespilan
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I literally reinstalled the game just for my girl Mag, to see how she is with shield gating. The ONLY thing keeping her out of "A+ tier" was her getting 1-shot by high levels when you make a small error. She seems to be a God now. 

How are you guys building her now? I replaced Umbral Vit with Redirection, and Rolling Guard with Adaptation. Arcanes will be Barrier and Aegis. Balanced build with Counterpulse, and Fracturing Crush for Infested. Still not sure if Adaptation is worthwhile with the base 25% DR on shields (I think so?)

Also Cyanex > Mara Detron every time now? 

Edited by Ikyr0
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30 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

How are you guys building her now? I replaced Umbral Vit with Redirection, and Rolling Guard with Adaptation. Arcanes will be Barrier and Aegis. Balanced build with Counterpulse, and Fracturing Crush for Infested. Still not sure if Adaptation is worthwhile with the base 25% DR on shields (I think so?)

I am loving how the changes have buffed her. Right now I'm running Redirection, Adaptation, Quick Thinking, Fracturing Crush and Counter Pulse, Primed Continuity, Primed Flow, Stretch, Cunning Drift, and Rejuvenation for aura. I am basically extremely durable against everything but a level 5 lich, Rejuvenation helps mitigate toxin damage, and I have enough range and duration on my CC that I can shut down entire rooms.

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I hate to be 'that guy', but Mag feels relatively the same to me. Before and after the update:

  • She still essentially has no passive
  • Pull still serves no purpose in any build
  • Magnetize is a phenomenal ability
  • Polarize struggles to remove significant amounts of armor and shields due to poor scaling, and the shards that it creates are a joke
    • The augment is good CC
  • Magnetized Crush has a lengthy animation that leaves you vulnerable, the CC is bad, the damage is bad, and it's only real use is for generating overshields
    • The augment is slow and demands a lot of Strength

What's changed:

  • Shield tanking is more viable
    • Tanking with health still more effective, even on Mag
  • Magnetize pulls harder
Edited by Zekkii
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58 minutes ago, Zekkii said:
  • Shield tanking is more viable
    • Tanking with health still more effective, even on Mag

Vitality tanking was never viable for Mag in high level content. You still had to run Rolling Guard, because a high level would punch through 2k shields and all vitality with one bullet. You need 90% DR to even think about vitality tanking.

What's cool about Polarize is that it fully recharges Mag's shields on one cast, and resets the shield gating mechanic. 25% DR + Adaptation + Arcanes can sustain you.

Fracturing Crush still hasn't changed in its role - it's completely shuts down and trivializes all Infested content. That's basically all it's good for.

Mag still has to play around bubbles, but at least it's possible to get away with making a mistake in positioning.

Edited by Ikyr0
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There's only one problem with her. She can't get rid of status effects like Hildryn.

This is mostly problematic if you get a big electric damage because you have to spam your 3rd to get back your shields. Slash seems to be less of an issue.

And for me she needs a lot of energy on high level content.

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46 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

Vitality tanking was never viable for Mag in high level content. You still had to run Rolling Guard, because a high level would punch through 2k shields and all vitality with one bullet. You need 90% DR to even think about vitality tanking.

What's cool about Polarize is that it fully recharges Mag's shields on one cast, and resets the shield gating mechanic. 25% DR + Adaptation + Arcanes can sustain you.

See this just simply isn't true.  Shields and arcanes barely have any effect but through health, armor, and energy she can survive even hours in endurance runs.  This is only more true since the update since shield arcanes were nerfed and guardian now supplies 900 armor for a single arcane.  Also note that health tanking has access to shield gating now as well.  I can't cover the entirety of tanking in one post, but here's the short of it:

  1. Adaptation is a good mod, but it doesn't give 90% DR even at maximum stacks; it's closer to 50% on average due to enemies using varied damage types but the mod only stacking one resistance types
  2. Arcane Guardian on Mag sets her damage reduction to 77.3% by itself
  3. Quick Thinking takes armor into account, but also divides the damage taken by 2.4x into energy
  4. Mag Prime with Vitality and Primed Flow has 740 Health and 744 Energy; effectively giving her 12k+ EHP before taking into account adaptation

And as for shield tanking:

  1. With shields she has 25% damage reduction flat
  2. Mag Prime with Redirection has 1110 shields; effectively giving her 2.4k EHP before taking into account adaption; note that only 1.4k is actually from shields
  3. Taking into account Quick Thinking and Primed Flow in a similar build, she would have 5k EHP

The two things not factored in here are adaptation and shield arcanes.  Adaptation effects both shields and health equally, but is easier to stack on health than shields.  Shield arcanes are unreliable and effect only 1.4k of her effective health.  They do nothing in conjunction with overshields, do not work when taking health or energy damage, and have low trigger chances with a small time window to activate.

In summary, Mag can achieve 12k EHP divided by adaptation's modifier through armor, health, and energy, but using shields her EHP is a fraction of that.

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While the changes help I still wouldn't take her to high level content without popping an ancient healer. 

She's never been bad at killing enemies. 

If you stick her in a one way corridor with a good weapon she basically becomes God. 

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3 hours ago, Zekkii said:

I hate to be 'that guy', but Mag feels relatively the same to me. Before and after the update:

  • She still essentially has no passive
  • Pull still serves no purpose in any build
  • Magnetize is a phenomenal ability
  • Polarize struggles to remove significant amounts of armor and shields due to poor scaling, and the shards that it creates are a joke
    • The augment is good CC
  • Magnetized Crush has a lengthy animation that leaves you vulnerable, the CC is bad, the damage is bad, and it's only real use is for generating overshields
    • The augment is slow and demands a lot of Strength

What's changed:

  • Shield tanking is more viable
    • Tanking with health still more effective, even on Mag
  • Magnetize pulls harder

I agree.

What I would add, is magnetize, while great, it needs to be free cast at location instead of on enemy. This will make it far more effective in creating choke points and protect yourself from damage.

Magnetized Crush... is redundant. It does the same thing as polarize (for the most part), with longer cast. The only reason it is ever used is for overshields. If polarize does overshields, I would never use Magnetized Crush. Which is what I think should happen. Just allow polarize to overshields and create a new skill 4 with different functionality. 

I am on PS4, so no patch yet. I am curios who well can she perform in level 120+ content, when there is arbitration drones and nullifiers. 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I am on PS4, so no patch yet. I am curios who well can she perform in level 120+ content, when there is arbitration drones and nullifiers. 

you'll be happy. I just did a 40 min Corpus Arby (lvl 120) with zero sweat. shield gating is so strong on Mag...as long as you're spamming Polarize, you are essentially invulnerable, because you keep resetting the shield gate. so you just need good energy management. Also, no more nullifier one-shots. I think the AI's aim nerf comes into play here. I'm an experienced Mag player, so I was moving a lot. hardly getting hit to begin with.

5 hours ago, Zekkii said:

See this just simply isn't true.

so you're saying just ditch the shield mods, and use the same build as before (umbral vit + intensify)? against lvl 120 Corpus, I was actually able to trade a bit before triggering the shield gate (Adaptation plus Redirection), but tbh I think that was Adaptation doing the work, not Redirection. 

Edited by Ikyr0
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Just now, Ikyr0 said:

so you're saying just ditch the shield mods, and use the same build as before (umbral vit + intensify)? against lvl 120 Corpus, I was actually able to trade a bit before triggering the shield gate (Adaptation plus Redirection), but tbh I think that was Adaptation doing the work, not Redirection. 

As long as you're informed, I'm sure you're capable of making that call.  

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13 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

How are you guys building her now? I replaced Umbral Vit with Redirection, and Rolling Guard with Adaptation. Arcanes will be Barrier and Aegis. Balanced build with Counterpulse, and Fracturing Crush for Infested. Still not sure if Adaptation is worthwhile with the base 25% DR on shields (I think so?)

Ironically, I did the exact opposite and removed Redirection in favor of Rolling Guard. RG and Counterpulse are the only 2 defensive mods on my build. I could never make Adaptation work on Mag, since usually I do not die from many weak hits, but from OHKO, thus Adaptation never had the chance to build up resistances in the first place.
Now with shield gate, my main source of danger is negated and I have enough time to react either by moving away or use Polorise, reset my shield gate & disarm enemies.

 

10 hours ago, Zekkii said:

In summary, Mag can achieve 12k EHP divided by adaptation's modifier through armor, health, and energy, but using shields her EHP is a fraction of that.

Wrong premise led to a wrong conclusion. "Shield tanking" on Mag is more effective, because she can easely replenish shields. She has no innate access to HP restores, thus regaining missing HP is more difficult for her. The important part is not what provides more theoretical eHP, but what can be refilled or sustained. In Mag's case, it is shields.

I would even go so far and say that shield tanking with Mag is the wrong way to play her, since those builds waste way to many mod slots to turn her into a semi durable Frame. If you want to facetank damage, there are better options in the game. Between solid CC, area denial and now shield gate Mag has more than enough tools to survive. Focus on what she is good, do not turn her into bad copy of another Frame.

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2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

She has no innate access to HP restores, thus regaining missing HP is more difficult for her.

With the way magus enhancements have been changed, EVERY frame has very strong hp regen at their disposal, press 5.

It was that way even before the update, but now it's kinda silly.

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37 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

With the way magus enhancements have been changed, EVERY frame has very strong hp regen at their disposal, press 5.

It was that way even before the update, but now it's kinda silly.

While spamming 5 several times to restore lost HP is an option, pressing 3 once remains the better, non-disruptive, innate solution. This also goes beyound the point of bending whole concepts to fit one unnecessary playstyle. Play Mag like a Mag, not like Inaros.

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Not only mag can remove armour(every frame except saryn that could do it before can do it now too).They indirectly buffed every frame with this except inaros and nidus.
But I know why you did this post, I love Maggie too. ^^
I just wish they would fix her bubble to the way it worked before, without ppl dancing inside.

Edited by vegetosayajin
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10 hours ago, Zekkii said:

As long as you're informed, I'm sure you're capable of making that call.  

After a few hours of testing, I came to the conclusion that it actually doesn't matter. Trying to maximize EHP on a glass frame is a pointless exercise.

It seems that Mag is basically immortal, as long as you have energy to spam polarize. Each cast resets the shield gate, and that's all that matters here. 

If anything, like the other guy said,.I'm gonna put Rolling Guard back in to increase the invulnerability period.

So yeah, shield gating makes her practically immortal. Did a 1hr Corpus Arby last night, and it was cake. I think a lot of it also has to do with DE nerfing the AI's aim botting as well.

Edited by Ikyr0
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5 hours ago, ShortCat said:

 would even go so far and say that shield tanking with Mag is the wrong way to play her.

Yeah, after testing out shield gating, I concluded that trying to maximize EHP on her is pointless. Initially I was trying to maximize the time before the triggering the shield gate. But with Polarize and the sentinel constantly resetting the shield gate, Mag is virtually invulnerable. I'm also going to put Rolling Guard back in to increase the invulnerability period.

Edited by Ikyr0
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