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Mr. Monk Analyzes Module Cost In Polarity Slots.


PapaKicks
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[NOTE: All examples will use 10 or 11 mod points for demonstration purposes]

 

[NOTE: If you DISAGREE, please see post #2]

 

The problem:

Polarity slots reduce mod cost by 50%, but rounds the cost up (which it should, in pure math logic).

 

What this means:

Putting an 11 point module into a polarity slot will cost you 6 points instead of 5.5.

 

How big a deal is it?

In the absolute worst case scenario, all 8 slots being polarized and using all odd numbered mods, you will lose EIGHT mod points. Yes, a full EIGHT!!Athirdexclamationpointforemphasis. Fixing this would also make more sense to Mr. Monk regarding how many points are available (30 or 60).

 

How do we fix it?

Option 1) Make all mods cost even amounts. Instead of 11, it becomes 10. Etc etc. (Problems : Mods would have to be re-examined for balance)   Too many issues.

 

Option 2) Make all polarity slots round DOWN not up. Give the player the better deal, just because it makes Mr. Monk (and me) happy. (Problems : None I can think of)

 

Option 3) Make it cost it's actual amount, 0.5, rounding up. For example: Mod one would cost 6 points, but putting both in would cost 10 points total. (Problems: Confusing to players)

 

Option 4) Polarity slots reduce a fixed amount of points, rather than a percentage. (Problems : Overly complicated, confusing to players)   Too many issues.

 

Option 5) ??? Please suggest some.

Edited by Akivoodoo
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Vote this post up if you DISAGREE with this idea!

 

[i hate seeing posts like "no" and nothing else. If you disagree, please vote this post up and move on. Constructive critism on the other hand is somewhat ;) welcomed.]

Edited by Akivoodoo
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Vote this post up if you DISAGREE with this idea!
 
[i hate seeing posts like "no" and nothing else. If you disagree, please vote this post up and move on. Constructive critism on the other hand is somewhat ;) welcomed.]

 

I don't think asking us to +1 this post as a sign of disagreement will work out well for you.

Edited by LegacyOfLamb
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Vote this post up if you DISAGREE with this idea!
 
[i hate seeing posts like "no" and nothing else. If you disagree, please vote this post up and move on. Constructive critism on the other hand is somewhat ;) welcomed.]

 

 

I love the idea of this quasi poll. And I prefer point 2 or 3 in the OP. +2

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I would rather it not change. The odd numbers are an important part of mod progression. When you start off, you can use the mods you want and not even have to potato your weapon. When you've played a bit more, you can potato your weapon and use the mods you want. When you've played a good amount, you will most likely have 4/5 on most of your mods. Here the mod levels become very important and you might not be able to use your eighth mod, or you may have to start putting formas on your weapon. It also makes you think twice about maxing your mod, because it will result in a 1 mod point difference that cannot be alleviated by formas. When you've maxed every mod, you are required to put usually 2-5 formas on your weapon to use all 8 mods.

What I'm trying to say is mod progression is interesting. There are many hurdles along the way, and you have to decide what's best for yourself. If you take the odd numbers away from the last level of the mods, you are taking away some of the fun and intrigue in progressing your mods.

Edit: I can see how this last hurdle can be viewed as negative; I just don't think this game needs any more simplification.

Edited by PsychShaman
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Just allowing x.5 as a cost would be neatest I feel.

One mod in correct polarity that costs an odd number of power would in effect be the same as having it rounded up like currently. However, if you put any even number of odd-costing mods into correct polarity slots, you would get the full benefit of the polarity bonus.

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I would rather it not change. The odd numbers are an important part of mod progression. When you start off, you can use the mods you want and not even have to potato your weapon. When you've played a bit more, you can potato your weapon and use the mods you want. When you've played a good amount, you will most likely have 4/5 on most of your mods. Here the mod levels become very important and you might not be able to use your eighth mod, or you may have to start putting formas on your weapon. It also makes you think twice about maxing your mod, because it will result in a 1 mod point difference that cannot be alleviated by formas. When you've maxed every mod, you are required to put usually 2-5 formas on your weapon to use all 8 mods.

What I'm trying to say is mod progression is interesting. There are many hurdles along the way, and you have to decide what's best for yourself. If you take the odd numbers away from the last level of the mods, you are taking away some of the fun and intrigue in progressing your mods.

 

Up until now I have maxed most of my mods. But I am now starting a second set that stops at the highest even number. It just feels so wasteful to have two sets like this.

But the bigger deal is I resent losing so many mod points to this rounding error. (again, worst case being 8 - not that any of my weapons have 8 polarity slots [yet], but I digress)

 

8 out of 60 is 13% lost...

8 out of 30 is 26% lost... (I know, I know - who in their right mind would polarize 8 times, but not potato)

 

My point is that is a non-negligible amount to lose to a rounding "error".

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If this was an error, then it wouldn't be the case that literally every Warframe ability ends on an odd number.

 

The last point typically has the most effect, and also the highest cost.

 

I put "error" in quotes for a reason. They are technically programming it correctly. This is just a bi-product.

 

I really can't see them doing this on purpose if that is what you are trying to say.

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I would rather it not change. The odd numbers are an important part of mod progression. When you start off, you can use the mods you want and not even have to potato your weapon. When you've played a bit more, you can potato your weapon and use the mods you want. When you've played a good amount, you will most likely have 4/5 on most of your mods. Here the mod levels become very important and you might not be able to use your eighth mod, or you may have to start putting formas on your weapon. It also makes you think twice about maxing your mod, because it will result in a 1 mod point difference that cannot be alleviated by formas. When you've maxed every mod, you are required to put usually 2-5 formas on your weapon to use all 8 mods.

What I'm trying to say is mod progression is interesting. There are many hurdles along the way, and you have to decide what's best for yourself. If you take the odd numbers away from the last level of the mods, you are taking away some of the fun and intrigue in progressing your mods.

Edit: I can see how this last hurdle can be viewed as negative; I just don't think this game needs any more simplification.

Yea, just make the game more grindfest. After I forma'd 5-6 times on my weapon, I do not want to use it anymore, because I'm so tired of using it.

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I really can't see them doing this on purpose if that is what you are trying to say.

 

It is what I'm saying.  I'm not even sure how you could think it's accidental?  Any mod I can think of that gives non-linear returns gives the largest increase on the last, odd-valued rank.  It seems like an obvious forced choice.

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It is what I'm saying.  I'm not even sure how you could think it's accidental?  Any mod I can think of that gives non-linear returns gives the largest increase on the last, odd-valued rank.  It seems like an obvious forced choice.

 

Odd numbered mods being planned? Sure, no problem.

 

Purposefully making 8 mod points unavailable? I don't think so.

 

Don't forget, forma's weren't added at the same time as polarities. So this could easily be an unintended side-effect.

Edited by Akivoodoo
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Purposefully making 8 mod points unavailable? I don't think so.

 

You never lose mod points by using a correctly polarized mod.  At worst, you aren't getting what you imagine it most optimally could be -- which by your own math would be four points, not eight.

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If it made you feel better, they could add an extra rank to all the odd-cost mods, then nerf them all by 1 rank, so they'd have a non-rounded polarized-slot cost but have exactly the same end-effectiveness.  That ought to satisfy anyone's OCD issues about the rounding.  I suspect it's really more about wanting more power in the end, though.

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You never lose mod points by using a correctly polarized mod.  At worst, you aren't getting what you imagine it most optimally could be -- which by your own math would be four points, not eight.

 

Umm yes you do. Using all matching polarities. [NOTE : It should be obvious that these mods don't exist (yet). But that is not my point.]

 

Slot 1 : 13 mod becomes a 7

Slot 2 : 13 mod becomes a 7

Slot 3 : 13 mod becomes a 7

Slot 4 : 13 mod becomes a 7

Slot 5 : 15 mod becomes an 8

Slot 6 : 15 mod becomes an 8

Slot 7 : 15 mod becomes an 8

Slot 8 : 15 mod becomes an 8

 

Total = 112 out of 120 mod points used. That's 8 "missing".

 

Using Option #2:

 

Slot 1 : 14 mod becomes a 7

Slot 2 : 14 mod becomes a 7

Slot 3 : 14 mod becomes a 7

Slot 4 : 14 mod becomes a 7

Slot 5 : 16 mod becomes an 8

Slot 6 : 16 mod becomes an 8

Slot 7 : 16 mod becomes an 8

Slot 8 : 16 mod becomes an 8

 

Total = 120 out of 120 mod points used. That's 0 "missing".

Edited by Akivoodoo
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Total = 112 out of 120 mod points used. That's 8 "missing".

The only place you've ever had 120 mod points was in your head. You get 60 on a potatoed item. Even if you allow mods to take 'half points,' you'll gain at most four points by not rounding fractions up.

I'm not even sure what we're really discussing at this point. You clearly have a conception of this well outside that of the game's current design.

Edited by noneuklid
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The only place you've ever had 120 mod points was in your head. You get 60 on a potatoed item. Even if you allow mods to take 'half points,' you'll gain at most four points by not rounding fractions up.

I'm not even sure what we're really discussing at this point. You clearly have a conception of this well outside that of the game's current design.

 

Polarity reduces by 50%, effectively making the 60 worth 120 mod points.

 

There ARE situations where this is an issue now. Let's say you have two polarities. Each rounding up, "robbing you" of 2 mod points. After equipping the rest of your mods, you have 4 points left, but the only mod you can use is 6 points. If this rounding issue did not exist, you could equip it. But as of right now, you only have 4 points left and are unable.

 

So you are wrong, my complaint is well within the game's current design.

 

I don't get it. Why would you be okay losing those 4 mod points in your example? We should be getting what we pay for.

Edited by Akivoodoo
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The way it works makes you think about how much you want to upgrade your mods for.  Not going to click on your second thread, however, making a second thread to down up vote the thread was a very nice touch, well done.  Kudos to you!  (Had to post just to say that)

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