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Exalted Weapons and Acolyte Mods


Drago55577
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So, many years ago, exalted weapons were good. Melee wasn't very strong, melee 1.0 sucked, and melee mods weren't great. Exalted weapons had interesting mechanics and high damage which made them usable.

Fast forward to the Acolyte mods, and standard melee finally got something. A very big something. The three most bloated mods that have ever been added to Warframe. Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds made them better by an order of magnitude, and maiming strike increased it by yet another. Polearms and whips very quickly became the best weapons in the entire game.

Exalts were not allowed to use these mods, though. They very quickly fell behind being utterly unable to compete. Sure, valkyr has 50% base crit and maybe 1000 base damage, you could get 200,300% crit? It pales in comparison to the 2000% crit you could get on other melees.

The acolyte mods simply gave such disgusting amounts of stats that entire builds couldn't compare to the stats given by a single mod. 

Here we are now. Maiming strike has been nerfed into obscurity, while Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds are as good as ever, still defining the meta. Their statistical bonuses are still leagues ahead of anything else we have. Melee has been reworked rendering many weapons usable. Their mods allow nearly any weapon to reach viable levels of crit and damage. 

What do exalted weapons get? Valkyr and Excalibur weren't affected by the reworks. Valkyr was and still is a slide attack blender. Excalibur is, well, he has a laser sword. Wukong got a nice exalt. But statistically they're still falling behind. Baruuk gets special treatment and gets very high status, even though he can't fit Weeping Wounds. But compared to your normal melee, they're still leagues behind in terms of crit and status making them obsolete.

So, in conclusion, non-exalted melee has recieved constant buffs and reworks, allowing them to close the gap between exalted weapons. The acolyte mods then rocket them so far ahead that exalted is a joke. It's about time exalted weapons get some love, and finally get the two mods that determine whether your weapon is good.

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Ok so....

Exalted Blade and Serene Storm we’re not effected by Melee 3.0. As they did not rely on the combo multiplier for damage. Even if EB lost damage it still had plenty to spare, and heat procs helped it against armor. And Serene Storm currently has everything it’s needed to be a good exalted weapon.

Hysteria has been falling off for years due to its incredibly short range, and Melee 3.0 removing the combo multiplier without giving exalted compensation for that hit the weapon hard. So it was actually effected very much by the melee changes. It still does technically deal out ok damage, but nothing worth casting the ability for.

Iron staff is just.....bad. It’s incredibly high range doesn’t matter if it’s useless past level 70. Like I genuinely feel bad for Pablo, who put all that work into making Wukong better. Only for it all to become redundant with a melee system update.

So yeah, Hysteria and Iron staff need access to acolyte mods.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok so....

Exalted Blade and Serene Storm we’re not effected by Melee 3.0. As they did not rely on the combo multiplier for damage. Even if EB lost damage it still had plenty to spare, and heat procs helped it against armor. And Serene Storm currently has everything it’s needed to be a good exalted weapon.

Hysteria has been falling off for years due to its incredibly short range, and Melee 3.0 removing the combo multiplier without giving exalted compensation for that hit the weapon hard. So it was actually effected very much by the melee changes. It still does technically deal out ok damage, but nothing worth casting the ability for.

Iron staff is just.....bad. It’s incredibly high range doesn’t matter if it’s useless past level 70. Like I genuinely feel bad for Pablo, who put all that work into making Wukong better. Only for it all to become redundant with a melee system update.

So yeah, Hysteria and Iron staff need access to acolyte mods.

Honestly exalted blade isn't that good. The rest of excals kit is also mediocre. 

I hadn't realised that they lost the damage from combo multiplier, that's horrible. It already wasn't good, I miss the days of Valkyr. Speaking of, one of her bigger issues is half her slide attack is practically point blank. A little bit of range and Acolyte mods, and it'd be super competitive.

Pablo is my man and he made Nidus so I'll always have his back.

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5 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

Honestly exalted blade isn't that good. The rest of excals kit is also mediocre. 

I hadn't realised that they lost the damage from combo multiplier, that's horrible. It already wasn't good, I miss the days of Valkyr. Speaking of, one of her bigger issues is half her slide attack is practically point blank. A little bit of range and Acolyte mods, and it'd be super competitive.

Pablo is my man and he made Nidus so I'll always have his back.

Your build must be super weak, because I haven’t noticed a single drop in my Exalted blades performance.

 

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6 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

Honestly exalted blade isn't that good. The rest of excals kit is also mediocre. 

I am always genuinely confused when someone somehow gets the impression that Excalibur is not one of the strongest frames in the game; There is no reason you shouldn't be melting level 150+ enemies of any faction when properly built. 

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10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Your build must be super weak, because I haven’t noticed a single drop in my Exalted blades performance.

 

It never got reduced. It's a relic from an older time, where many many years ago the game was easier. Other weapons have been massively powercreeped, exalted weapons haven't been touched. 

10 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It was for balance reasons, but now the exalted melees that never needed combo are amazing and the ones that did are now horrible.

They're not amazing, by any metric. A properly built melee weapon will vastly out perform any exalted weapon. Because acolyte mods are incredibly bloated and their stats skyrocket power.

8 hours ago, Acos said:

I am always genuinely confused when someone somehow gets the impression that Excalibur is not one of the strongest frames in the game; There is no reason you shouldn't be melting level 150+ enemies of any faction when properly built. 

Are we talking old or new scaling? New scaling has turned level 500+ into paper. But that's beside the point. Enemies strictly do not matter here. This is a comparison between weapon types and their power scaling.

But to go on a tangent, and assuming old scaling in endurance content where weapon power is actually a factor, he just falls off. Not entirely the fault of exalted blade, his kit is just outdated, and not only is it outdated, it still has the old nerfs.

Although for the record, Excalibur is very very far from the strongest frame in the game. Exalted blade isn't bad, mostly due to it's range, but it's still not comparable to other melees. Then he has 3 meh abilities. While we've got frames like Wisp, Nidus (fun af btw), Saryn who have very strong kits, good synergies with other frames and within their own kit, and are just incredibly strong. How a frame should be designed, great synergy and strong kits, not a single strong ability.

Valkyr and Baruuk also just have severe range issues which really hurts them, Valkyrs partially due to the attacks in her stance.

 

Edit: With that in mind, please at least read the OP and respond to what I said, and not "I haven't seen a drop in performance" when that's absolutely no where close to what I said. Same with levels.

Edited by Drago55577
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38 minutes ago, Drago55577 said:

It never got reduced. It's a relic from an older time, where many many years ago the game was easier. Other weapons have been massively powercreeped, exalted weapons haven't been touched. 

They're not amazing, by any metric. A properly built melee weapon will vastly out perform any exalted weapon. Because acolyte mods are incredibly bloated and their stats skyrocket power.

I have like 160% power strength and am using the Chromatic blade Augment and it’s still incredibly powerful. Nothings powercreeped Exalted Blade.

Half of them still are.

Exalted Blade is still the insane powerhouse damage dealer

Serene Storm finally has its performance bolstered enough to justify the restriction to restraint.

Hysterias bad

Irons staff is bad but was the best Exalted melee before Melee 3.0 ruined it.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I have like 160% power strength and am using the Chromatic blade Augment and it’s still incredibly powerful. Nothings powercreeped Exalted Blade.

Half of them still are.

Exalted Blade is still the insane powerhouse damage dealer

Serene Storm finally has its performance bolstered enough to justify the restriction to restraint.

Hysterias bad

Irons staff is bad but was the best Exalted melee before Melee 3.0 ruined it.

Nothing has powercreeped? You must have missed the acolyte mods that add absurd stats to melee weapons. Happened a few years ago, kind of a big thing.

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8 hours ago, Drago55577 said:

Are we talking old or new scaling? New scaling has turned level 500+ into paper. But that's beside the point. Enemies strictly do not matter here. This is a comparison between weapon types and their power scaling.

Old scaling; My frames have been specifically built to deal with the absurd levels of armor scaling the game had up until presently; Melee buffs have allowed many weapons to become viable and this next round of adjustments has only broadened the pool of viability available. I don't think that truth has resulted in Exalted Blade becoming less powerful and I still generally prefer it to other weapons around for the utility it provides. 

This video isn't mine, but it's as good as any other example of Excalibur in 2020: 



As far as addressing the conversation you want us to have;  To lend my voice to a "vote", I don't see a reason why Acolyte Mods should be excluded from Exalted Weapons and was against their inclusion since their introduction. I don't agree with the "Exalted Weapons bad, need OP mods to be good" argument you appear to be going with, however, and I think you've grossly overstated the importance of the acolyte mods and are perhaps not up to date with combo changes and recent changes to crit/status mods across the board. 

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On 2020-03-12 at 7:31 AM, Drago55577 said:

The acolyte mods then rocket them so far ahead that exalted is a joke. It's about time exalted weapons get some love, and finally get the two mods that determine whether your weapon is good.

10000% agree. This would allow some love on exalted weapons.

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When it comes to exalted weapons that actually would need the buff, id rather see DE fix valkyrs Ripline to not kill your momentum and have its pull strengths revesed (yeets you, drops enemy momentum 2/3rd of the way in), Warcry slow to remain as a aura around valkyr for the duration, Hysteria to not reward cowardice/work more like Nier A2 Berserk, small energy cost to trigger, hp degen while invul (you use claw lifesteal to keep yourself up), any damage taken stacks up and slowly "leaks" into how powerful the degen is, but part (%+a decent flat value) of it gets removed on each kill and by overhealing and last but not least, letting the spin jumps in hysteria do "buzzsaw"/screw attack dealing 25% of claw damage each rotation. Also giving wu a way to trigger his passive using his stick without actually using up his invul charges for it.

Edited by Andele3025
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On 2020-03-14 at 11:32 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s literally one of the strongest melee weapons in the game.

I was going to post a response but this is just derailing the thread. This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

Back to the original point. Exalted weapons don't get access to mods that are 98% of a builds strength. This is terrible design.

 

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On 2020-03-13 at 1:08 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Your build must be super weak, because I haven’t noticed a single drop in my Exalted blades performance.

 

Strange how builds that weren't changed did drop in performance. And the ones tried to adopt are still lacking. If you have a build that let's you do damage and at least have decent survivability; I would love to see that.

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1 hour ago, Drago55577 said:

I was going to post a response but this is just derailing the thread. This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

Back to the original point. Exalted weapons don't get access to mods that are 98% of a builds strength. This is terrible design.

 

The how about focusing on the exalted weapon that are actually weak.

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1 hour ago, Ender140 said:

Strange how builds that weren't changed did drop in performance. And the ones tried to adopt are still lacking. If you have a build that let's you do damage and at least have decent survivability; I would love to see that.

I did have to switch out CO for heat damage. 
I’ll post my build later when I have access to the game.

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On 2020-03-12 at 8:31 AM, Drago55577 said:

 and finally get the two mods that determine whether your weapon is good.

Except exalted weapons don't have a combo count meter, so these two mods don't do anything. Really, weeping wounds and blood rush are only truly effective if you can keep your combo count at all, otherwise they are indeed a waste.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

Except exalted weapons don't have a combo count meter, so these two mods don't do anything. Really, weeping wounds and blood rush are only truly effective if you can keep your combo count at all, otherwise they are indeed a waste.

Exalted Weapons have a combo meter and can fully utilize combo specific mods. 

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18 hours ago, Acos said:

Exalted Weapons have a combo meter and can fully utilize combo specific mods. 

So is the wave from Excal's EB counted or not? Because if not, shouldn't that get a look-see about being added in? Makes no sense to not count that as part of the combo meter. Probably why mine doesn't rise then, since the waves are fun to use.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

So is the wave from Excal's EB counted or not? Because if not, shouldn't that get a look-see about being added in? Makes no sense to not count that as part of the combo meter. Probably why mine doesn't rise then, since the waves are fun to use.

No, but also yes. From the wiki:

Each melee attack adds to the Melee Combo Counter while energy waves and radial damage from slam attacks do not. Slash status effects generated from waves while Mod TT 20pxRelentless Combination is equipped will grant combo counts to Exalted Blade.

I don't personally use Relentless Combination, however; I encourage people to start using Exalted Blade like a melee weapon instead of a very slow moving ranged attack. You will do far more damage, spend less time missing, can utilize a larger array of mods, and I personally find it more fun to melee on the melee frame. 

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On 2020-03-15 at 2:52 PM, Ender140 said:

Strange how builds that weren't changed did drop in performance. And the ones tried to adopt are still lacking. If you have a build that let's you do damage and at least have decent survivability; I would love to see that.

https://imgur.com/a/jMitGzm <-- This is what I've been using and it seems to meet your criteria. 

Personal preference things you can change: Sprint Boost + Rush could be... anything else really. I like ye olde Steel Charge & Swift Momentum. I think most people would sub in Power Drift, although I didn't notice the 15% damage doing anything practical and I like to go fast. 

I have a build I used to use for Arbitrations and Sorties that trades Stretch for Adaptation, which Umbra can get away with since he starts with so many Umbra Forma. I do feel a bit energy starved if I'm fighting enemies who are too weak since they don't do enough damage to me to activate Hunter Adrenaline, but I do appreciate the extra layer of tankiness against enemies in the 100+ range, although I still generally prefer Stretch for the better blind coverage and greater Slash Dash distance. That all aside, Umbra is a pretty straightforward EHP/Hunter Adrenaline build; Blow your shields, take health damage to fuel energy from Hunter Adrenaline, and then utilize different methods of healing to keep yourself upright. If you have the time to farm or the platinum to blow then Arcane Grace & Arcane Guardian are very notable additions to the build. You could switch them out for something more offensive but I already do so much damage that I prefer to use those slots on survival. 

Exalted Blade uses Condition Overload and Healing Return to great effect with Chromatic Blade. I debate switching **Condition Overload out for Sacrificial Steel but I'd need to burn an Umbra Forma on it to get it back in there; it would be slightly higher initial damage and keep Berserker more consistent. It doesn't *really* matter though; the thing does overwhelming damage either way. Chromatic Blade should generally be a notable damage increase and does a fantastic job of crowd control depending on which elements you are using. I'm set up for Corrosive/Fire but the recent status/armor scaling overhaul has opened up a lot of viable options. Viral is pretty nice from what I've played around with so far and you could probably go with whatever in all honesty. 

*edits~

 

Edited by Acos
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