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Sad state of 2020 Patched Vauban - VIDEO ATTACHED.


--.Ravakahr.nVbs.--
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Community:

I'd really love your feedback on this idea. Tell me what you'd want changed about Vauban even! How would you improve vector pads? How would you improve Vauban?

 

Summary

  • Sliding pads have no impact on the game and are completely unfun, to the point they should just be removed or reworked. 
  • Video attached of how bad the issue is.
  • Community have your say. I'm more curious on what your ideas and suggestions!
     

Explanation: 

Vauban just had slight rework 1 week ago. What's worse is vector pads where untouched and have zero impact on the game. As seen in the video below:

Sorry for map overlay I don't even see it half the time! 

 

Removed Article

Edit: Removed article about building Vauban to make Photon Strike and strength builds more viable. Felt thread going off topic. Would like the article to focus on vector pads.

Class Augment slot: 

  • A few hours later I was thinking an amazing change for all warframes. Class Augments/mods get their own catagory x1 beside exilus adapator (uptop). You can equip more then 1 but theres one free slot uptop. Would improve so many builds having that 1 extra slot for Class Augments/mods
Edited by Ravakahr
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Personally I miss the mines that did a Radiation proc and the one that stripped armor. Never used the jump/vector pad except for dumb stunts. Would rather have something more applicable to the rest of the game. Rarely will a speed-minded person choose Vauban when frames like Nezha and Gauss exist.

Edited by Teksorbkyva
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57 minutes ago, Ravakahr said:

Adapatation - Something that I love! Playing end game content sorties / murmur farming against level 90 enemies Adapatation is a fun perk that I like to run. Please don't touch this mod

Maybe Adaptation should just be a universal thing? Every single build wants it on.

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No, it only exists as a scaling thing. Market trading aside, and I'm aware the hole that blows in everything, the normal progression doesn't give you access to Adaptation until you've completed the system map. So it's an endgame mod for endgame content, a cheap way to make every frame almost 10x as durable. 

I despise it and don't use it outside of very particular circumstances, but giving it to everyone would defeat the purpose. It would be better to remove it and give everyone a Legendary Core. The effect on scaling and gameplay of doing either of those things would be interchangeable.

Anyway yeah let's please kill Vector Pad. It'd be a huge buff to take on average 2/3 as much time to cycle to the trap you wanted.

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I don't agree with your opinion on the old bounce pads... but I do agree that vector pads should be replaced with something else, because they basically are the old bounce pad. in every way. except that you can't use them offensively and they only work on the X/Z plane and not the Y plane.

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2 minutes ago, Chicadino said:

I don't agree with your opinion on the old bounce pads... but I do agree that vector pads should be replaced with something else, because they basically are the old bounce pad. in every way. except that you can't use them offensively and they only work on the X/Z plane and not the Y plane.

I wanted recall teleport. A lot of people wanted shield bubbles. I guess Protea got those instead.

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3 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

In before someone say “MaKe iT ReVenaNt’s PaSsive” 

It's worth considering that if everyone takes that mod as a given for the most appreciable experience, maybe it deserves a passive role in game.. one that doesn't automatically and arbitrarily take a mod slot.

How would we thematically make it so it makes MORE sense that element stacks mean the Opposite for us? (Less effective each time, rather than more.) If that's a main-stay in everyone's build these days, and expected of players to have in missions where competence matters most.

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3 hours ago, Ravakahr said:

Increasing Bastille range to base 15m - decreasing range mod effects

Please don't. Adding decreased effectiveness to power mods is a bad idea, needlessly complicates things, and goes against everything this "Review, Refresh, and Revise" mainline is aiming for. It's stupid on Oberon and needs to be removed, not added to more places.

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2 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

It's worth considering that if everyone takes that mod

Like Vitality or Stretch? The modding system exist to mod things. Where do you draw the line when you think of things that should be taken for granted? (IMO Adaptation is far from a universal implementation like Blink.) Even if it wouldn't hurt any build, it'd just be an excuse for them to nerf it like with Blink, and most frames don't even need it. Any frame with 90%+ DR, invisibility, Chroma, secondary barrier (I.E. Iron Skin), Limbo, etc... don't stand to even really gain anything from its mod slot.

1 hour ago, CopperBezel said:

Make it Revenant's 2!

Might as well take 'em round back and put him out of his misery at that point. 

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On 2020-03-13 at 10:20 AM, Teksorbkyva said:

Personally I miss the mines that did a Radiation proc and the one that stripped armor. Never used the jump/vector pad except for dumb stunts. Would rather have something more applicable to the rest of the game. Rarely will a speed-minded person choose Vauban when frames like Nezha and Gauss exist.

Yeah true maybe remove it completely. 

  

On 2020-03-13 at 10:27 AM, kapn655321 said:

Maybe Adaptation should just be a universal thing? Every single build wants it on.

If im honest I like it as a mod - I hope they don't touch it ever ;D

 

Edited by Ravakahr
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26 minutes ago, Ravakahr said:

It's different scaling on every frame.

  • Off the top of my head the only ability that scales differently is Hallowed Ground. Big or small, a 45% range buff is just that on every frame.
    • 45% buff on a 20 meter ability is 29
    • 45% buff on a 15 meter ability is 21.75
    • 45% buff on Hallowed Ground's 15 meters is 20.063
  • Not to mention the increments you did it on have no consistency. +1.5m per range mod/stage? No offence but what the...
    • And your new max range of 22.5m (or 25m) at 280% range is less than what Vauban can get now. Which is 28 meters.

And his abilities scale with enemy level, plus he's CC focused. He's one of the last frames in need of more strength, just drop Adaptation. The mainline changes made frames like Vauban much more tanky.

Edited by KitMeHarder
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Nova's Molecular Prime scales differently by Strength by adding the bonus % directly to the slow effect, Mag's Polarize and Hildryn's Pillage scale have a portion scaled on range + a portion scaled on duration, such that scaling either attribute leaves a the other portion fixed like Oberon's, damage bonuses can scale by either multiplying the bonus constant like D(1+ SK) (where D is input damage, S is power strength, and K is a constant) or by increasing a multiplier on the total damage like DSK, etc. There are definitely other things that scale differently, some of them are just hiding.

Edited by CopperBezel
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40 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:
  • Off the top of my head the only ability that scales differently is Hallowed Ground. Big or small, a 45% range buff is just that on every frame.
    • 45% buff on a 20 meter ability is 29
    • 45% buff on a 15 meter ability is 21.75
    • 45% buff on Hallowed Ground's 15 meters is 20.063
  • Not to mention the increments you did it on have no consistency. +1.5m per range mod/stage? No offence but what the...
    • And your new max range of 22.5m (or 25m) at 280% range is less than what Vauban can get now. Which is 28 meters.

And his abilities scale with enemy level, plus he's CC focused. He's one of the last frames in need of more strength, just drop Adaptation. The mainline changes made frames like Vauban much more tanky.

OMG thank you for that pickup. I Had only forma'd my vauban 1 hour ago when I was trying to make a strength build with a new polarity. I'll reupdate the math so its all the same max range.

Edit #2: I had a long thing about what you said. And your right. % should be kept the same. If you come up with any ideas please suggest them below.

Edited by Ravakahr
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Change Vector Pad to Low Gravity  Pad.

Low Gravity Pad makes Vauban and allies bullet jump and double jump much further and faster. And enemies affected by Low Gravity Pad get suspended in air longer by melee. 

And don't underestimate bullet jump velocity. It is quite significant. I know this from using Arcane Consequence and also playing Low Gravity mode nightmare missions. 

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3 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Change Vector Pad to Low Gravity  Pad.

Low Gravity Pad makes Vauban and allies bullet jump and double jump much further and faster. And enemies affected by Low Gravity Pad get suspended in air longer by melee. 

And don't underestimate bullet jump velocity. It is quite significant. I know this from using Arcane Consequence and also playing Low Gravity mode nightmare missions. 

Sounds fun ^_^ very fun!

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8 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Nova's Molecular Prime

I forgot about MP's slow, thanks. The other's just double scale or scale evenly with a stat you would't initially expect (I.E. the math checks out). Hallowed Ground (and to an extent MP) are the only ones that you have to go to the wiki to see why the math isn't adding up.

12 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

such that scaling either attribute leaves a the other portion fixed like Oberon's

HG only scales with range, but it has a weird and non-standard formula.

  • Radius and angle are affected by Ability Range.
    • The radius follows the expression:Base Range + 11.25 × (Ability Range - 1)
      • For example, with a maxed  Stretch, the radius will increase to 15 + 11.25 × (1.45 - 1) = 20.063 meters.
    • The angle follows the expression Base Angle + 135° × (Ability Range - 1)
      • For example, with a maxed Stretch, the angle will increase to 180° + 135° × (1.45 - 1) = 240.75°).

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Hallowed_Ground

 

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6 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I forgot about MP's slow, thanks. The other's just double scale or scale evenly with a stat you would't initially expect (I.E. the math checks out). Hallowed Ground (and to an extent MP) are the only ones that you have to go to the wiki to see why the math isn't adding up.

HG only scales with range, but it has a weird and non-standard formula.

  • Radius and angle are affected by Ability Range.
    • The radius follows the expression:Base Range + 11.25 × (Ability Range - 1)
      • For example, with a maxed  Stretch, the radius will increase to 15 + 11.25 × (1.45 - 1) = 20.063 meters.
    • The angle follows the expression Base Angle + 135° × (Ability Range - 1)
      • For example, with a maxed Stretch, the angle will increase to 180° + 135° × (1.45 - 1) = 240.75°).

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Hallowed_Ground

 

I edited above but I had a long think about what you said with keeping range consistent. I agree with you. If you have any great ideas on vector pads apart from delete them (as they mentioned in multiple dev streams they wont delete them and they want to keep the 4 rotating skills on vauban) please suggest them below.

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9 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

HG only scales with range, but it has a weird and non-standard formula.

I know, I looked at the wiki for it before I posted. I'd never noticed it playing Oberon, but I did see what you meant. I still think it's comparable to Mag and Hildryn in everything but presentation. You can see it more obviously if you multiply out to simplify the expression for the distance range so you don't have two constants floating around.

15 + 11.25(R- 1)

15 + 11.25RA - 11.25

3.25 + 11.25RA

So it has an inner base range that doesn't scale and an outer one that does. Polarize has an inner base range and an outer range that both scale, but with different stats.

Edited by CopperBezel
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