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COOP mode issues (ranty)


Seraria3
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Half the game is meant to be played as a team, in hopes of cooperation... yes or no? If yes, then I have to ask why most players play as if they are solo when in a team.

Am I the only one that's noticed that people take all the kills without any care in the world for their teammates?

Am I the only one that's noticed that people sometimes don't revive their teammates or rely on their teammates to revive them?

I played Hydron and am trying to get the 150 status proc kills... but I have 2 players with ignis/ignis wraith stealing all the kills. Yes, I need the affinity for Frost Prime rn, but I'm also trying to get nightwave done. I even said that in the squad chat. Nobody cared. I kept losing the kills to a player who in said mission had like 200 kills already. I had the least amount of kills, but the most damage. Can people chill?

I brought that up in the previous mission. I asked them not to steal the kills. The response was that this isn't a moba. Like really? It doesn't matter what kind of game it is. Stealing kills is not something anyone is going to be happy about.

Am I the only one who feels like they need to modify the skills and stuff or something so that people can actually play missions as a team, instead of dealing with people who can and would rather solo said mission if not for the affinity from others?

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This is actually an interesting topic. It’d require a lot of thought and testing, but I’m not convinced that there isn’t a way to reduce inconsideration.

It’ll take a lot of thinking, hmmmm... If this can be solved well, it might provide solutions to problems surrounding the general nature of playing with others

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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well, your first mistake was going to hydron for anything BUT leveling (yes i know you mentioned leveling Frost). If I have ANY kill based things to do I do them over time in a few missions...or if im in a hurry I will go to Sanctuary onslaught.

There is also the fact that the kill count does not matter, as its based off simply TAGGING an enemy with anything and that is it, all credit goes to them (except shared affinity)

That being said however, I actually play solo most of the time Specifically because I cant stand some of the missions with other players, unless I get some type of premade together. I honestly dont even LOOK at the results screen anymore except for drop lists for anything I may need (which isnt much nowdays)

Now if i see someone go down and they are within a certain range, then i WILL go get them, but if they are split off from the group, then its their loss and they will need to use s revive. If the player uses up all their revives...then that is on them tbh, as they could not stay with the group in the first place.

This game is so much of a horde looter shooter that looking at anything mission statwise is irrelevant, imo.

Edited by Kalvorax
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40 minutes ago, VJohnston said:

Half the game is meant to be played as a team, in hopes of cooperation... yes or no? If yes, then I have to ask why most players play as if they are solo when in a team.

Am I the only one that's noticed that people take all the kills without any care in the world for their teammates?

Am I the only one that's noticed that people sometimes don't revive their teammates or rely on their teammates to revive them?

Most of the missions are relatively easy, and because of that no one really needs the help of others unless it's really noticeable.

With the implementation of self-revive most of the time the player would use it instead of waiting for others to help them. This goes back to most missions being easy; there's no real loss when you get down or using self-revive. It only really matters in situations where you need to make all self-revive count and you use it in clutch situation. Like in Eidolon hunting when Trinity, with the lures, gets down by the pillars of light from Gantulyst and must use self-revive because the lures are also in the pillars of light.

49 minutes ago, VJohnston said:

I played Hydron and am trying to get the 150 status proc kills... but I have 2 players with ignis/ignis wraith stealing all the kills. Yes, I need the affinity for Frost Prime rn, but I'm also trying to get nightwave done. I even said that in the squad chat. Nobody cared. I kept losing the kills to a player who in said mission had like 200 kills already. I had the least amount of kills, but the most damage. Can people chill?

I brought that up in the previous mission. I asked them not to steal the kills. The response was that this isn't a moba. Like really? It doesn't matter what kind of game it is. Stealing kills is not something anyone is going to be happy about.

Big mistake, Hydron is the designated spot for farming for affinity. If you have any other goals that exist outside of getting affinity, relics, and planet resources you either need to go somewhere else or go solo for your own sake. While going into a mission and trying to complete multiple nightwaves acts is good (hitting 2 birds with 1 stone), sometimes it's better to go solo as other players have their own goals.

58 minutes ago, VJohnston said:

Am I the only one who feels like they need to modify the skills and stuff or something so that people can actually play missions as a team, instead of dealing with people who can and would rather solo said mission if not for the affinity from others?

I say you would be in the minority. While there are mission that has players working as a team, Hydron is not one of them.

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@VJohnston

 

4 hours ago, VJohnston said:

I brought that up in the previous mission. I asked them not to steal the kills. The response was that this isn't a moba. Like really? It doesn't matter what kind of game it is. Stealing kills is not something anyone is going to be happy about.

 

^ This is a common misconception new players often suffer from. Warframe is not like other games.

Other than the enemies that are assigned to be scanned (a daily quest from Cephelon Simaris) there really is no such thing as Kill stealing because the experience (affinity) from every kill is shared equally among those players in the group who are within 50 meters of the person who kills the target. 

Unlike other games that doesn't mean 1 person gets 50% and another gets the other 50% of the kill, it means that those in range each receive 100% of the experience from the kill.

Thus you can effectively gain experience from doing nothing but following another player who has a high kill rate.

^ That is the benefit from running co-op missions. The more people in the group, the faster the kill rate, the faster everyone gains affinity (experience) as long as they stay within range of each other.

You also receive bonus affinity based on the affinity you gained once the mission is successfully completed. More experience more bonus.

That being said the total affinity a player receives is divided up between their warframe and the equipment they have loaded on their frame.

 

You can find more about affinity (experience) and how it works on the wiki page located here:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Affinity

 

Warframe doesn't do a very good job explaining this (or anything really) to newer players and often I seem them separating themselves form the group believing that experience is based off the number of kills they do alone.  Separating themselves not only cuts them off from all that wonderful affinity but also leaves them open to being killed away from the group and is why most players won't come rez you if you weren't staying close to the group.  Why would you cut yourself off from the experience you are trying to get to rez someone that wasn't contributing by staying near the group in the first place?

 

Again kill stealing isn't a thing in warframe at all, however, the misconception is common so don't feel bad if you weren't aware. Everybody has to learn sometime and I hope this helps. 🙂

 

 

Edited by Aesthier
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11 hours ago, Aesthier said:

@VJohnston

^ This is a common misconception new players often suffer from. Warframe is not like other games.

Other than the enemies that are assigned to be scanned (a daily quest from Cephelon Simaris) there really is no such thing as Kill stealing because the experience (affinity) from every kill is shared equally among those players in the group who are within 50 meters of the person who kills the target. 

Unlike other games that doesn't mean 1 person gets 50% and another gets the other 50% of the kill, it means that those in range each receive 100% of the experience from the kill.

Thus you can effectively gain experience from doing nothing but following another player who has a high kill rate.

^ That is the benefit from running co-op missions. The more people in the group, the faster the kill rate, the faster everyone gains affinity (experience) as long as they stay within range of each other.

You also receive bonus affinity based on the affinity you gained once the mission is successfully completed. More experience more bonus.

That being said the total affinity a player receives is divided up between their warframe and the equipment they have loaded on their frame.

 

You can find more about affinity (experience) and how it works on the wiki page located here:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Affinity

 

Warframe doesn't do a very good job explaining this (or anything really) to newer players and often I seem them separating themselves form the group believing that experience is based off the number of kills they do alone.  Separating themselves not only cuts them off from all that wonderful affinity but also leaves them open to being killed away from the group and is why most players won't come rez you if you weren't staying close to the group.  Why would you cut yourself off from the experience you are trying to get to rez someone that wasn't contributing by staying near the group in the first place?

 

Again kill stealing isn't a thing in warframe at all, however, the misconception is common so don't feel bad if you weren't aware. Everybody has to learn sometime and I hope this helps. 🙂

When I say kill stealing, I mean that when I go for an enemy... another player targets that same enemy, killing them even though I'm there attacking said enemy. or wave clears killing said enemy. If I'm trying to get nightwave done (status proc or general kills) then it's not fun when the enemy your trying to kill is killed by someone else as you are going for said enemy or already trying to kill said enemy. One shouldn't have to solo a mission to get nightwave or simaris targets or whatever done. Hydron specifically may be an affinity farm, but that doesn't mean I should get almost no kills by comparison to another player who clears the map.

It makes me feel like I should just stay in the objective afk... except that I'll lose the reward at the end of the 5 rounds for being idle. It ruins the fun aspect of the game.

 

It's not just Hydron either, I've even had way too many missions for simaris targets that I've missed because the other players either ignore it and extract or kill it. How much faster might I have had the scanner widgets or even heliocor, if those weren't missed?

 

My point is that there just seems to be a lot of players who really don't know how to play the game with others. It feels like it's everyone for themselves rather than a squad. I feel like I need to find 3 people I know to play the game with all the time, rather than play on public with random people. That should not be how one feels or plays the game, imo.

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2 hours ago, VJohnston said:

When I say kill stealing, I mean that when I go for an enemy... another player targets that same enemy, killing them even though I'm there attacking said enemy. or wave clears killing said enemy.

Yeah, again, this is just not a thing in Warframe. If someone's AoE blast kills an enemy you're shooting at or someone pegs someone you're wailing on, they've just helped you, and you move on to the next enemy. It's just fundamentally not a thing that if you lick an enemy it's yours. 

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10 hours ago, VJohnston said:

My point is that there just seems to be a lot of players who really don't know how to play the game with others. It feels like it's everyone for themselves rather than a squad. I feel like I need to find 3 people I know to play the game with all the time, rather than play on public with random people. That should not be how one feels or plays the game, imo.

With this clarified point I can’t help but think of a lot of posts on this forum about how the game was either boring because of too much power, or DE nerfed the ability to wipe out entire maps (or eidolons) with a single skill or a single shot.

I totally get where you’re coming from. I tend to avoid playing with others beyond my choice 2 people, because I ask myself “What’s the point? What are we doing here? Do I need these people or are they limiting my sense of doing something?”. No communication, just a bunch of EXP numbers increasing.

Instead of power tempered by restraint for the sake of others, I’ve seen people desperately flex for themselves, and I can either try to beat them at their own game (impossible) or I can watch as the Play part of Warframe is taken away from me, and ask “Why did I want to fight alongside others again?”.

That said, I’m not convinced that it’s impossible for the powerful to fight alongside the weak and both parties to feel like they contributed something meaningful within the context of this video game. To provide a solution to that would be to tackle the age-old problem of “How do you get those who have a choice  (the powerful) to temper their options for the sake of those who don’t (the weak)?” though, and that is not such an easy topic to sort out. It’d require a lot of thinking and discussion, hmmmmm...., and there have been very smart people trying to figure out how to make it work in the world at large already, so it’s like “Welp. It’s hardly a contribution, but I’ll give it some thought.” and ask myself things like “What would I do if the rolls were reversed?”

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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Trying to tell others to stop killing which will slow down leveling up and slow down mission? Just do low level missions like E Gate Exterminate on Venus, in solo, just to get the Nightwave challenge done fast.

Some Nightwave acts can be done with Warframe's abilities.

Kill enemies with electricity damage:
Volt does electricity damage very fast with Ability 4 Discharge and mods with large range.

Kill enemies with toxin or viral:
Saryn can do toxin, viral, and maybe corrosive damage, depending on which ability is used.

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8 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Yeah, again, this is just not a thing in Warframe. If someone's AoE blast kills an enemy you're shooting at or someone pegs someone you're wailing on, they've just helped you, and you move on to the next enemy. It's just fundamentally not a thing that if you lick an enemy it's yours. 

Not what I meant. If you kill an enemy that I'm trying to kill and it's going towards nightwave or whatever... then it's not my kill. It's your kill.

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1 hour ago, sam686 said:

Trying to tell others to stop killing which will slow down leveling up and slow down mission? Just do low level missions like E Gate Exterminate on Venus, in solo, just to get the Nightwave challenge done fast.

Some Nightwave acts can be done with Warframe's abilities.

Kill enemies with electricity damage:
Volt does electricity damage very fast with Ability 4 Discharge and mods with large range.

Kill enemies with toxin or viral:
Saryn can do toxin, viral, and maybe corrosive damage, depending on which ability is used.

You clearly don't get the point of me wanting to play with others... and not have to solo a mission. If I can kill 2+ stones with 1 stone, I'd rather do that then have to solo another mission after.

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7 minutes ago, VJohnston said:

Not what I meant. If you kill an enemy that I'm trying to kill and it's going towards nightwave or whatever... then it's not my kill. It's your kill.

Gotcha. I don't know, if someone asked me to stop killing things please in the chat I'd probably do as they asked. Guess that might just be my personality though. I've had similar situations where I've asked folks to pretty-please stay around for another three minutes of a Survival so that I could finish the 30-minute Nightwave that week. (And the host extracted anyway. Which wouldn't have been a problem if it was just hanging out for another couple of minutes in a low level survival, but host migration does stupid things sometimes and it did that time, too. X / )

But yeah, that's very different then, I do expect people to try to be courteous when asked. We're all mostly doing the same kinds of silly arbitrary things for some reason or another and I try to show the consideration I'd like to be shown.

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12 hours ago, VJohnston said:

My point is that there just seems to be a lot of players who really don't know how to play the game with others.

I only read this after my first reply.

For me, it appears to be around 5% from other players being not so good, most of the time it seems ok. Most of them are kind of nice, but not all. And it is more like 1% to find a really bad and annoying player like Loki constantly switch teleport other players, although I make it less annoying to me by using Warframe specters so Loki player can switch teleport my specter and specter will never get annoyed.

Some Nightwave acts are somewhat not Co-op friendly. Kill enemies, possible kill steal, especially on Defense, because most players want to get this Nightwave done, and kills are not shared. Besides Nightwave there are other problems. Though, trying different missions might help like survival, interception, as those missions cannot be rushed and enemies are more spread apart.

Poor matchmaking options. Can't limit matchmaking to a specific activity on Orb Vallis or Plains of Eidolon. (mining, fishing, farming Vega toroid, Fractures, k-drive racing)

Recruitment does not fully fix the problems, and have some other possible problems.
- Recruitment are often slower, and very annoying now with chat bugs unable to click on name and linked item after a few loading screens to relay, dojo, and missions.
- Derelict key share kicks when the player that put up the Derelict mission vote, quit or lost connection.
- If the host have it set to friends or invite only, and the host abort mission for any reason like dead and no lives, it will kick everyone out of the mission and back to orbiter / relay / Cetus and stay connected to host that aborted mission, no host migration.
- Twilight Apothic share but not everyone have it equipped and used. Game do not show if other players have Apothic equipped.

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