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Titania suggestions : About her Tribute ( the select wheel)


Bakahung
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Hello , It's me again , speaking about Titania , again . Maybe I like her too much .

Anyway , I had post some suggestion for her before , and also on the update thread . 

But after some playtime and read the dev post about how to make a good feedback ( sorry I read it too late ) , I think I have the full idea about her tribute and how to fix it's problem . 

And it's mostly about the wheel .

1)The problem of the wheel 

In old days , Tribute will have player select a specific enemy type to get a specific buff , which make it not that consistent and often waste a lot of time and energy .
So DE change it , make it a select-able buff , fixed it's consistency . But this also lead to a new problem , that it disrupt the flow of gameplay .

    Movement

    The first problem is , tribute's default button is 2 , which is right above W , the forward button , and these 2 button share the same finger to press ( middle finger ) . 

    Which mean player have to stop moving forward to cast Tribute .

    In the old times , this is not a problem . because it's a single tap , quick and easy .

    But In it's current state , it's not just a single tap , but a tap and a hold . The entire process will cost around 1 sec , and player will often be stationary because they can't press other movement button .

    Maybe one will argue with the moving part , because we can move in other direction . But I have to say , forward is the primary movement we do in this game , not able to use it will lead to a lot of inconvenience .

    And Titania is a rather squishy frame , not moving means she will be taking a lot of damage , even being downed .

    Cast time

    That's just the problem about movement . Next is about the casting time . 

    Like I said , it cost around 1 sec to cast the ability . This maybe acceptable for other frames , but not in Titania's case . 

    because Titania don't choose a ability to cast . She won't press 2 several times to a specific buff and get it . She have to press it 8 times on a target .

    This mean a few problems .

    If Titania want to get all of her buffs , She can do it in following ways .

        Stay in place and spend around 5 sec on a single target to get it .

        In this case , the problem is easy to see . In a fast pace game like WF , have to stay for a long time simply feels bad . Trust me , 5 sec is very long .

        And in squad play , this mean she will be left behind , or in a worse case , the target will get killed , forced her to find a new target .

        So she have to go faster than other people to get the buffs . In one hand , this is hard . On the other hand , this mean she can't stay close to her friends , which is sad .

        Run around and cast them on different targets . 

        This one felt slightly better . But still have a problem with squad play .

        Because these day's Warframe are really good at killing , Titania players still have to act very fast to get her ability . This is hard enough on it's own , not to mention she have to press her ability two times.

        This can be done for a experienced player , but is really hard for newer ones . And even it's done , it's kind of tired for those player .

        This is not a problem with solo play , but having to press so many buttons in a short time It's still exhausting .
    

    So this is the main problems I found with the wheel system . But there still lies one problem : Why do you need to cast it 4 times ? Why do you need all the buffs?

 

2) Why the wheel don't fit Titania ?

The good part of selecting wheel is player can choose 1 in 4 mini powers to face the current situation . 

When on Vauban , He can choose to CC 2 enemies , lock down a choke point with needles , buff himself and boost his speed .

When on Ivara , she can sleep enemies when she need them to stop moving , make a invisible filed for safety , shoot some wires to move to high place without breaking her stealth or attract enemies to a specific spot so she can finished them in 1 shot .

But on Titania , her buffs are not situational . She always need evasion to not get hit , and thorns to soften some blows since she is squishy .

And while other 2 buffs are not that useful , she still need them to be up all the time because it's synergy with her Razorflies .

    Compare to Vauban

    One may argue , Vauban's mines are also not that situational . Having those things all the time is also important to Vauban .

    And I agree with that statement . But these two frames' play style is different .

   Vauban is an engineer , he is all about setting up traps before the fight , and all his ability are stationary ( other than his 1 ) . His play style is also more about staying in a place and destroy everyone that enters his death zone .

   But Titania is a frame that's encourage moving . She have a ult that let her fly and not restrict to normal warframe movement . That's her entire selling point .

   Having to stop and cast abilities is really discouraging . 

   Tl:dr It's fine for Vauban but not fine for Titania because they are different . 

These are reasons why the wheel don't fit her .

   The already exist solution : Very  Long Duration

   There may be another arguement : all the buffs last for two minutes . Titania only have to do this every two minutes .

   And my counter argument is , two minutes is not a really long time .

   It might be in a easier mission , but in a more meta ones ( infinite missions , lich missions ) , two minutes is a really short time .

  I often feel like I just replenish the buff a few seconds ago , and It's already gone .

( If you think the article is a mess right now , it is , I don't have that much brain juice left . But i will still try to make a clear point . If anyone feels my statement isn't clear enough , please tell me , I will explain it again . )

 

3)Solution

So after all these explanation , it's finally the time to give a solution .

There are a few steps .

a)Change it back to a single tap

    In this way , Titania don't have to stop her game play to get her buff . Press 2 on a target , and there's the buff .

    But what about the consistency ?  Isn't the whole point of this change to fix that ?

    That;s the next change .

b)Make it stack base .

    For every soul Titania collect , she will gain one of the buffs . Up to four stacks .

    For example , Titania cast tribute twice , and collect two souls . Now she have two stacks , and she will have two out to four buffs .

    As for the duration , it don't have to be 120 second . Instead , make it last 30 seconds  , and +30 seconds when she get a soul , cap at 120 sec .

    This is not a big change , the affect of ability didn't change at all , even casting remain the same , only the way it works is slightly altered .

    Why?

    As I state before , Titania always wants all her buff . At this point , Tribute rather being 4 different buff , but a buff with four properties.

    So instead of four seperate mini-abilities , just merge them into one . This will easily fix the consistency problem , while also make a super simple.

    Player don't have to maintain all four buffs on the same time , also don't have to see what buff they are getting . Just four easy taps .

   

4) Conclusion

    All my brain juice are gone , so I'm sorry if there are any errors in this post .

    This is my super long post about Titania's Tribute . I'm glad if anyone will spend time to read through this whole post .

    Looking back , this is a lot of writing for a QoL changes , but I think is really worth it .

    I also have some other changes that I wish Titania have , but that's for another day . I'm hungry and tired now .

 

 

Thanks for reading .

Let's hype together for Titania Prime .

Once again sorry if the post is really hard to read  , I'm not a English speaker and I'm exhausted near the end .

Edited by Bakahung
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  • 4 weeks later...

So , Titania Prime just got release , so the numbers of Titania players also rise .

I think there are more people could agree that , the current wheel/select one to cast system really don't work on Titania .

so that's why I bring up this post again , to hopefully let DE see a feedback from a dedicated Titania player .

 

( No pressure though , I know the entire work schedule in DE is a mess now due to the pandemic , and SS still have some issues that you guys are working on . Just don't forget about these posts.)

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A humble request from a Titania player, Please change the tribute wheel. 

Please change the Tribute skill so that a tap will use the ability and holding the key will change what buff u get. As it stands it is very annoying to hold just to cast especially on faster enemies.

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This is irritating, from what I`m seeing, DE have no intentions on improving here abilities which we are asking for. Look at this post, you will see what I mean.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1181409-please-add-new-dash-animation-to-titania-prime/?tab=comments#comment-11488519

 

Also here is an idea I have for abilities like her tribute.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1182392-warframe-a-new-ability-menu/?tab=comments#comment-11483384

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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On 2020-03-12 at 10:18 PM, Bakahung said:

For every soul Titania collect , she will gain one of the buffs . Up to four stacks

to make this even simpler, collecting one of the souls should give Titania all 4 buffs at once, with the extra stacks increasing the duration up to the normal 2 minutes as suggested in the post. That is my only suggestion, as I agree with almost everything else, though I believe cycled abilities as a whole need to be looked at, as they all feel cumbersome.

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  • 1 month later...

Wheelcasts in general are problematic, not just for Titania. So fixing wheel-abilities into something more practical would be nice, like this: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1186958-quiver-and-minelayer-like-abilities-a-new-casting-option-the-quick-access-numerical-menu/?tab=comments#comment-11519968

The problem is higher on Titania though because all her miniskills are enemy-targetted, which makes it far more finnicky and clunky. Imo, Titania's second skill should just be revamped entirely. Something like this:

Tribute - 50 energy

On cast, Titania launches an energy Razorfly towards the aimed location. Upon the razorfly impacting the area, it explodes with a X meter explosion radius. All enemies caught by the explosion are knocked down, suffer X damage and are debuffed, reducing their damage dealt by X% for X seconds. In addition, all enemies have their souls extracted, granting various buffs when picked up (Basicly all the effects of the Tribute impact, like now, but made into a more interesting "missile" ability)

As OP proposed, instead of granting 4 different buffs with 120 second duration, it instead grants all 4 effects in one buff package but with just say 20 second duration, with the duration stackable instead.

Something like that.

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22 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

(Basicly all the effects of the Tribute impact, like now, but made into a more interesting "missile" ability)

Weaponized butterfly launcher , that's interesting  🤔

Also your QANM is also interesting .

 

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4 hours ago, Bakahung said:

Weaponized butterfly launcher , that's interesting  🤔

Also your QANM is also interesting .

 

Thanks!

And yeah, it's just an idea though. I compared Zephyr and Titania a bunch today on open worlds, and no matter how bad one might think Zephyr is, she is WAY more practical than Titania is.

Zephyr has: Burst of flight. Moderate CC. Awesome selfbuff. Localized CC. She's functional and non-finnicky with her casts (even if there are some obvious issues, but I digress), fitting for a highly mobile and often airborne Warframe.

Titania has:

1) Moderate CC + status immunity which requires no particular aim to use. Arguably the most practical of her basic skills.

2) A superfinnicky wheelcast which requires manual pinpoint targetting and constant rotation for optimal use. It's GARBAGE in practicality, especially for a highly mobile and often in-flight Warframe, and I end up just buffing up with Dust and leave the rest untouched, it's just not worth the enormous hassle.

3) Pointless skill, overall. actually (works better in cramped regular maps). It requires pinpoint accuracy and is very unreliable over all.

4) Bread and butter, but kinda meh at times.

Titania is still rather garbage imo. A lot of her moveset needs simplifcation and be made fully non-accuracy based (aside from Dex Pixia, that is).

Imagine Tribute and Spellbind merging completely: Caststyle is that of Spellbind (i.e. no need for precision casting and it works in an AoE), but it has the effects of both (and no wheelcast, just the simplifed all-4-buffs-but-duration-is-what-stacks idea). Would make for an awesome ability.

Now have Razorflies as her #2 or something. Holdcast while active to swap between defensive or offensive version (offensive is the current use of them, defensive makes the Razorflies work more like Amesha's #1). Restore more of them with melee kills (works with Diwata too).

Her 3rd - launch a fast-travelling butterfly-lantern toward the target point, which attracts enemies to it in a BIG radius. Holdcast to detonate. No need for accurate casting due to not needing a target to cast. Also serves as the "missile" skill in her kit, which fits for an airborne Warframe. Boom, much more practical already.

4th could be left as is, basicly.

Simple reworking, but way more practical.

Edited by Azamagon
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3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Simple reworking, but way more practical.

Please, no more simple reworks. It doesn't work.

And 

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

4th could be left as is, basicly.

I would prefer that many restrictions (like weapons) were removed, as well as that a lot of bugs were fixed. Yes, razorwing is strong now, but that doesn't mean it doesn't need repairs.

Edited by zhellon
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