Was The Old ember broken?

[kwlingo]

Now that I see more and more people wanted the Old Ember back and how other nukers are doing the same exact thing as her old kit but on the next tier of effectiveness... Nope.

The old Ember was yes AFK. All they needed to do was reduce her range with 280% max range only being15 meters, not 50 meters. 15 meters because enemies should still be able to shot you. This will allow for an active play design and not sit in one spot while they shot you. Also her AFK was only viable on level 30 and under. Anything above that she needed to have a different build, so her quake augment was the  perfect balance without nuking rooms. Also just make abilities that cause players to go AFK, have a large energy drain so they cannot go AFK.

Im proposing all nukers in game right now to have the Old Ember effect "only viable level 30 or under" and reduce the infinate scaling that breaks the game for Co-Op.

The nukes we have right now in game break the team work needed for mission. We see these threads on a daily. There is something definitely off with nukes in game right now.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

OG Ember was OP. Basically anything within WoFs range was as good as dead.

Nerfed Ember was useless because DE wasn’t going to let an AFK Damage ability be useful.

Current Ember has the damage and the interactivity required to justify its damage. 

[KIREEK]

DE at some point shifted directions with warframes and they saw the same complaints being made by players who "main" a warframe. For those players warframes are not tools, they are a way to play the game, in any situation, level, tileset, faction and so the problems were always the same.

• they don't scale well into high level
• can't strip armor
• can't CC much
• warframe is fragile

With this in mind DE set the goal, that warframes should do pretty much everything, it must CC, deal damage that scales, must be tanky and must strip armor.

DE is very carefull about unbalancing the efficiency and fun for new players, Ember, even when used by teammates, caused a serious increase in resource gathering, faster missions and made players unable to hit anything, by players i mean complete newbies who are still feeling the ropes of the game, because you could kill and even surpass most embers, but that required effort, effort that most players do not want to do.

Ember received several reworks over the years, but sadly fun isn't allowed, you can't make things easier for newbies so instead they reworked her into something that does well all around.

As for the entire AFK gameplay thing, many users who would sit still while using her 4th ended up punished, Support has access to inputs made by the player, so if a report was done and support saw you did nothing for extended periods of time, you could very well receive a warn. There are even topics containing the "gameplay" and complaints of these users, claiming they were killing alot, but still got warned. This is merely an advice, just because a warframe allows for afk gameplay, doesn't mean you should do afk, unless ofcourse you don't care about your account or starting all over again.

Edited March 15, 2020 by KIREEK

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

OG Ember was not OP. She was well balanced and crafted...until the lazy players of the meta decided to make her a one button action to do missions. They cause the playing to become lazy ...or as they say "efficient" when that is not the point of playing a game. It's for fun and mixing things up and trying things you canno do in real life. But since they want fastest, easiest, least amount of work way in a thing that is voluntary to play....they gotta mess it up for those who enjoyed her WHOLE kit as it was. 

Now we have a frame that feels nothing like Ember. She is more of a space frame that rides around in meteor storms than a fire based devastating figure of walking firestorm. Hek, they took her power and gave it to Guass to show how good it really is but on another frame to get the crymoaners to stop with the tears. 

Old Ember was not OP but players lazed her playstyle to force a terrible change

[Proffebolter]

hace 7 minutos, kwlingo dijo:

Now that I see more and more people wanted the Old Ember back and how other nukers are doing the same exact thing as her old kit but on the next tier of effectiveness... Nope.

The old Ember was yes AFK. All they needed to do was reduce her range with 280% max range only being15 meters, not 50 meters. 15 meters because enemies should still be able to shot you. This will allow for an active play design and not sit in one spot while they shot you. Also her AFK was only viable on level 30 and under. Anything above that she needed to have a different build, so her quake augment was the  perfect balance without nuking rooms. Also just make abilities that cause players to go AFK, have a large energy drain so they cannot go AFK.

Im proposing all nukers in game right now to have the Old Ember effect "only viable level 30 or under" and reduce the infinate scaling that breaks the game for Co-Op.

The nukes we have right now in game break the team work needed for mission. We see these threads on a daily. There is something definitely off with nukes in game right now.

People prefer the old Ember more, for the simple fact that the rework that they have put in a long time ago, feels a very different and heavy style of play at the same time. Many people prefer WoF (Old ember) ability more than Inferno (New Ember) ability. Since they released the new ember, it provided a little, and I realized right away that their style is very different from the old Ember, and basically stop using it. It was main Ember, I liked the damage, CC in mass, among other factors that the old ember had.

But now it is an ember tank with a Burst Damage with a heating mechanic, which honestly doesn't appeal to me at all, it only serves to amplify the effects of some abilities.

That is why many people prefer the old ember, it felt very comfortable to play it, their synergy of their abilities work very well, their 3rd ability may not have been used much, but in general it worked very well.

And I basically used it to do sppedrunning in Captures and Exterminations. I loved it. Its 4th ability was nerfed several times based on range, but even so well used it can create havoc, some use it for damage, and others use it to put perma-stun with the augmentation of WoF. And that for which, people could not be more AFK. Because the ability charged, the longer the WOF had been activated, the damage increased, but you sacrificed the damage range.

But now the new Ember, for me it sucks.
 

[MobyTheDuck]

Old Ember was great for low level missions, but scaled like crap for high level stuff. People would use her to speedrun captures, fissures and some other missions.

Fire was terrible against armor, Ember had low armor and health, with no damage reduction or ways to strip armor.

All you could do was keep stunning enemies by using the fire procs and Accelerant. Her 1 and 3 was basically useless.

As I said, she was great for low level stuff, you would just press 4 and you could just walk around and stuff would die. People whinned a lot that she was making low level stuff "too easy".

Then came the first "rework" (AKA nerf) that made her 4's energy drain increase and range decrease over time, with damage increasing. That pretty much made her even worse for high level stuff, but barely changed her for low level missions. The damage increase was barely noticeable since because of armor and the range/energy changes crippled her CC.

Right now you mostly need to keep pressing 4 to kill stuff. Which reminds me that Pablo wanted Ember to be more used on ESO, but forgot you cant press 4 twice without getting your skill locked. Then he went on about nerfing Saryn even after they said that ESO wouldnt be used as grounds for nerfing/buffing.

[(PSN)Soul_o-O_Eater]

I find it odd that people say her old 3 was useless when it buffed all the other damage including fire based weapon damage. I always had my 3 on.

[Veridian]

On 2020-03-16 at 1:36 AM, kwlingo said:

Im proposing all nukers in game right now to have the Old Ember effect "only viable level 30 or under" and reduce the infinate scaling that breaks the game for Co-Op.

Good thing you're not a game designer then.

You can't just invalidate entire frames because you lack the knowledge to compete with them.

[Oreades]

On 2020-03-15 at 7:46 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

OG Ember was OP. Basically anything within WoFs range was as good as dead.

Nerfed Ember was useless because DE wasn’t going to let an AFK Damage ability be useful.

Current Ember has the damage and the interactivity required to justify its damage. 

Old ember was good at clearing the starchart. She was hardly OP. Because once you moved past the starchart WoF was only good for Firequake. 

Nerfed ember was actually closer to OP than OG ember ever was. At least on the starchart. She was a ham fisted effort to try to fix the "problem" with Ember and all that misguided attempt did was force even further build stagnation. Tho they seriously hobbled Firequake which was one of if not her only redeeming contribution from Sorties on up.

As far as new ember.... can't really say, haven't really played her. If memory serves her passive is no longer garbage and they finally achieved what they so desperately tried for with the initial changes which was to wear out people's 4 key. So mission accomplished. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Oreades

[BornWithTeeth]

Hi, I'm someone who mains Ember, and I would hate it if they reverted the rework. She's great! She has a nice strong damage reduction ability, a wide area damage plus armour stripping ability, a significant damage ability, an actually useful, flavourful Passive, and good Augments. Her kit has synergy without requiring an excess of micromanagement, and she hits harder than ever while being able to take a hit better than any time since old Overheat was removed.

 

The 'rework' they did on her in 2018 was garbage, and I absolutely do not want to see her genuinely good new kit sacrificed so we ca have World On Fire back.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Soul_o-O_Eater said:

I find it odd that people say her old 3 was useless when it buffed all the other damage including fire based weapon damage. I always had my 3 on.

That's her old 2, Accelerant.

And the thing I loved most about it wasn't even the damage boost but the (additional) non-LOS mass CC, it's a terrible shame Ember lost that.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

OP, at the time no.  Boring, yes.  She would be OP now with the way Heat proc's work though.  New Ember, fun to play, 4 feels OP'd but at least it's not a channeled ability.  That's my opinion. 

[Serafim_94]

Pre-nerf Ember was garbage. Nerfed Ember was garbage. Current Ember is somewhat non-garbage.

Her biggest sin was press-4-to-win. It's something DE went to great lengths to remove from the game. Say what you will about Saryn and Mesa - they are more interactive than WoF or OG Bladestorm ever were.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Serafim_94

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2020-03-15 at 7:46 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

OG Ember was OP. Basically anything within WoFs range was as good as dead.

Nerfed Ember was useless because DE wasn’t going to let an AFK Damage ability be useful.

Current Ember has the damage and the interactivity required to justify its damage. 

Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

What's wrong with you, YOU TROLL?!?

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

I wouldn't call old ember before they nerfed world on fire overpowered, she was efficient with double arcane energize to be sure back when arcane energize was good and you built her for nothing but damage, range, and one primed continuity on her to have accelerant stick around a little longer duration wise but OP?  She hasn't been able to compete with saryn in years in terms of damage output.  Or equinox even just nuking the map once enough damage is built up on maim in conjunction with another damage frame.  

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2020-03-16 at 8:36 AM, kwlingo said:

Now that I see more and more people wanted the Old Ember back and how other nukers are doing the same exact thing as her old kit but on the next tier of effectiveness... Nope.

The old Ember was yes AFK. All they needed to do was reduce her range with 280% max range only being15 meters, not 50 meters. 15 meters because enemies should still be able to shot you. This will allow for an active play design and not sit in one spot while they shot you. Also her AFK was only viable on level 30 and under. Anything above that she needed to have a different build, so her quake augment was the  perfect balance without nuking rooms. Also just make abilities that cause players to go AFK, have a large energy drain so they cannot go AFK.

Im proposing all nukers in game right now to have the Old Ember effect "only viable level 30 or under" and reduce the infinate scaling that breaks the game for Co-Op.

The nukes we have right now in game break the team work needed for mission. We see these threads on a daily. There is something definitely off with nukes in game right now.

First off, only the current Ember is the nuker. Before then she never was a nuker.

Just before the current Ember was an useless trash, for World on Fire's radius is reduced to melee range and it means fragile Ember doesn't have anything in WoF's radius or got killed by it. The funny thing is you were still able to use her as low-level killer because you can use Overextended and still kill stuffs in the one-digit level enemies.

Before the disaster was struck, Ember was a so-so frame. Not so great, even not so good at AFK or killing low level missions because Equinox is simply better(even now Equinox can do the same, which means 'kill her because of AFK issue' is simply nonsense). The only selling point is she can put the fire against the enemy within the reasonable range and freely shoot the enemy. Think about Silence of Banshee. WoF is virtually Silence with low damage that gives the time to shoot or contribute Condition Overload, which gives her a niche. Not so great, but usable.

Edited March 23, 2020 by DroopingPuppy

[(PSN)Soul_o-O_Eater]

9 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

That's her old 2, Accelerant.

And the thing I loved most about it wasn't even the damage boost but the (additional) non-LOS mass CC, it's a terrible shame Ember lost that.

Oh ok. Well that one was great for defense and it had added fire damage when shooting from it. Would have been really good with fire rework.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

On 2020-03-15 at 7:02 PM, Proffebolter said:

People prefer the old Ember more, for the simple fact that the rework that they have put in a long time ago, feels a very different and heavy style of play at the same time. Many people prefer WoF (Old ember) ability more than Inferno (New Ember) ability. Since they released the new ember, it provided a little, and I realized right away that their style is very different from the old Ember, and basically stop using it. It was main Ember, I liked the damage, CC in mass, among other factors that the old ember had.

But now it is an ember tank with a Burst Damage with a heating mechanic, which honestly doesn't appeal to me at all, it only serves to amplify the effects of some abilities.

That is why many people prefer the old ember, it felt very comfortable to play it, their synergy of their abilities work very well, their 3rd ability may not have been used much, but in general it worked very well.

And I basically used it to do sppedrunning in Captures and Exterminations. I loved it. Its 4th ability was nerfed several times based on range, but even so well used it can create havoc, some use it for damage, and others use it to put perma-stun with the augmentation of WoF. And that for which, people could not be more AFK. Because the ability charged, the longer the WOF had been activated, the damage increased, but you sacrificed the damage range.

But now the new Ember, for me it sucks.
 

Sorry, but you're never getting old ember back. Say it was better all you want, but its not gonna change the fact that she isn't coming back. Sorry if that came off as rude, but its ridiculous to want a downgrade of a frame thats doing much better now. Her old kit was useless and scaled...badly. Only useful for like 30 and under Exterminate and whatnot. That sucks, I would never want a frame to be stuck fighting lvl 30 enemies when there are better frames taking on higher lvl content, and now Ember can do the same. How is that a bad thing? How coule anybody want a downgrade? Simple...laziness, and thats exactly what old ember was. Lazy and to me, not fun at all.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Sorry, but you're never getting old ember back. Say it was better all you want, but its not gonna change the fact that she isn't coming back. Sorry if that came off as rude, but its ridiculous to want a downgrade of a frame thats doing much better now. Her old kit was useless and scaled...badly. Only useful for like 30 and under Exterminate and whatnot. That sucks, I would never want a frame to be stuck fighting lvl 30 enemies when there are better frames taking on higher lvl content, and now Ember can do the same. How is that a bad thing? How coule anybody want a downgrade? Simple...laziness, and thats exactly what old ember was. Lazy and to me, not fun at all.

How about troll threads? You do realize that these people are just beating a dead horse for the attention it definitely catches everytime they post it. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 minute ago, Nehra96 said:

How about troll threads? You do realize that these people are just beating a dead horse for the attention it definitely catches everytime they post it. 

Son of a *@##$ I fell for it...well...I guess thats the realization that puts me to bed tonight.

[-Genesis-]

It seems no one knows the original ember of 2013, and how broken she was. Let me school you, kids.

https://youtu.be/UQFLO8oQB14

The original world on fire was an orbiting nuclear bomb, with the range of an entire room. And yes, enemies can't even touch you. Not even her squad can touch the enemies. Video has no mods btw.

 

She also had a 90% damage reduction iron skin that has a powerful immolation called 'overheat'

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Overheat

[kwlingo]

14 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

Good thing you're not a game designer then.

You can't just invalidate entire frames because you lack the knowledge to compete with them.

lol you must have been one of the Zenistar campers who went into 5 hour run mission. Just bring a Saryn camp on top and as enemies tried getting close your spores were killing entire rooms without sight of enemy or Octavia.

Yes if I designed a game i'd probably allow some more challenging content that only the best of players could achieve. And a life decay the longer you stayed in mission to make it more challenging. Along with weapon damage scaling down the longer the mission dragged on. 🙂 Hardest game ever.

[Flyshlee]

No. She trivialized low level content... as if it weren't already trivial.

[Acos]

I am generally in favor of re-tooling frames so that they have to interact with the enemy to kill them. Keeps low level crap interesting when one guy can't hide in a corner insta-killing the entire map. DE has been correcting that mistake since Nova, even if they keep... making it.   

I vastly prefer the re-designed Ember and her ability to be relevant in missions past enemy level 30. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Acos

[Teridax68]

Old Ember was the epitome of the press-4-to-win frame. Her World on Fire was infamous for being this ability you toggled on just to turn the game into a walking simulator. That was the reason she was nerfed horribly, and ultimately why she had to be reworked. Trouble is... her rework isn't really that much more interactive. Her 4 is still very much press-4-to-win due to being this massive nuke one doesn't even really need to aim much to apply, and behind the layers of complication tied to her 2 lies a fundamental lack of interactivity with the environment: Ember isn't interacting with enemies more than she used to, she just has more busywork to hide that fact. As such, I still think Ember is in need of another rework, though simply reverting her back to Old Ember I don't think is necessarily the way to go: World on Fire could work, but only if it had a proper limitation that prevented it from being used 100% of the time. With that sort of gate in place, Ember wouldn't even need to be limited by enemy levels to be allowed to do her thing.