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Scruffel

Revising Atlas: Deadrock Protocoal

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Posted (edited)

Oh wow! Would you look at the time?! It's Complain About a Favorite Warframe for (Defintely More Than) an Hour Time! And on this episode, we're talking about Atlas!

...yay...

I am back with more notes and feedback than ever before in order to talk about Atlas, a Warframe who is, well there. Waiting to be relevant again. I'm going to give basic opinions on him, and talk everything about him, stats, abilities, augments, other types of common suggestions and feedback, and provide possible solutions to fix his problems. Mostly everything except maybe physical appearance. He's very self conscious about having no neck neck, leave him alone already. I am going to be writing a lot, so don't worry, there will be a Too Lazy, Didn't Read a Rough Draft Essay All About A Punching Rock made by A Sleep-Deprived Man with Nothing Else Better To Do. But for people who are willing to read too much for their own good, I am going to start by listing what the following text will entail:

  • Somewhat a rework, somewhat a revisit: While I don't plan on necessarily removing or replacing abilities, I'm going to be focusing on shifting the way how Atlas will be structured in terms of both how some of his abilities work, but even the way they are formatted. Some abilities will be moved around, some changed a lot in terms of how they work or used. Heck, I will even give the possibility of a new ability to be added. But basically, I am not intending to remove the current functions of Atlas, but rather improve on them and add onto them with new options.
  • Consideration of other ideas: As I do have an open mind about things, I plan to talk about other ideas that have been brought up as solutions for specific issues of Atlas's kit. I'm not going to necessarily refute them all, or accept them all, rather talk about the way they could benefit current Atlas and this revised one, in order to figure out ideas to possibly add on or consider for the revision. Sadly, I wouldn't be able to credit anybody with these ideas because of my trash memory and how they've been repeated a lot of the time I've been on this forum, so sorry if I didn't credit you with a specific idea I used. Also, look out for asterisks (*) for any time these will be brought up, for easy findings.
  • Covering everything... hopefully: I will be trying to cover every single talking point in terms of Atlas, even with the way how he has developed in the recent Mainline patch. And even though I can't cover absolutely everything, I am going to encourage anybody to point out stuff I haven't considered or forgot about.

Now, let's begin:

Warframe Revised and its affect on Atlas:

The recent Mainline came out, with lots of things changing because of it. Enemy scaling balances, Status buffs and nerfs, Self damage is gone (hurray), Shield gating is here, and shared Sentinel mods, etc. Pretty interesting changes, and most that I would say are for the better of the game. Now in terms of how Atlas has been affected by the patch, I'd say he absolutely benefited. Shield gating goes well his Landslide invincibility and helped with the way how he builds Rubble, and he doesn't have to worry about using (practically most) explosive weapons as he simply negates the knockdown, although not the stagger or flinching but I'm fine with that. He did get hit a little bit since Atlas can't easily deal with enemy Armor as easily as he used to before with the Corrosive nerfs, but considering how enemy armor has been reduced, I'd say nothing much has changed. Just a little alleviation to how much he has to worry about armor. This does mean some of the following suggestions will reflect the Mainline changes, which might be risky due to how things can shift from one update to another hotfix, but it shouldn't hurt too much to adapt appropriately for the current time.

Stats and Prime Stat Buffs:

In my last thread regarding Atlas's stats, basically my idea was to slightly increase Atlas's health by at least 25, as at the time I felt Shields didn't matter too much for Atlas and the little health increase wouldn't be too crazy. I did also mention that this issue might not arise within his Prime, as all Warframes have stat increases in their Primes. I have changed my mind on both points, as the Mainline made shields better and somewhat worth caring about, and the Prime Stat increase did solve it as well, but maybe too much. Seriously, 75 more health, 50 more shields, 25 more armor, 25 more energy, and even a 0.1 sprint increase?! At the time I was kinda happy, but also somewhat confused. I shouldn't complain since it's an overall incredible buff, but definitely almost going overboard. I would have probably reduced the Health increase by 25, and maybe remove the armor buff, but considering how the Prime has already been out and asking for a nerf in that region now could be seen as unnecessary, it's probably because it is. A little bit too much of a high increase in his stats, but something I can't really complain about.

Passives:

- Immovable: Perfectly fine. It only got better with the recent Mainline and even buffed last year in the PoE update, and it's very simple for the good job it does. The fact that you can negate specific enemy attacks and properties by just being on the floor is very useful. Not exactly a top tier passive for it's potential or power, rather for it's utility and convenience. *While I do think the passive could be made much better by making it work in the air, it doesn't seem necessary nor make sense from a balance perspective (and apparently the passive is a reference to the Greek mythos giant Antaeus whose invincible as long as he touched the ground, so there's that too).*

Edit 3(A):

Scarlet Spear Passive Buff:

The somewhat recent Scarlet Spear update has, for some reason, brought Atlas another buff since he can now ignore Staggers. Even though I believe it to be unnecessary, I can't complain since again, I'll take it. This not only means that Atlas only has to worry about Flinching (which is barely anything), but this also means certain enemies practically become irrelevant to Atlas, such as Rollers. They are practically the equivalent to a mobile soccer ball now (even though they always were, just more annoying). End of Edit 3(A)

- Rubble: Again, in my last thread, I made a point about how I feel like Altas's Rubble should feel less of a hassle, and more convenient towards building it up to make it an overall better experience. My suggestion was to only have the Rubble decay start when Atlas loses health, and I feel like it should stay in tact, as I feel like with the shield gating change, there's more of a manageable way of maintaining your health intact. And due to this change, I will also be suggesting of improving the healing part of Rubble.

As a small addition, I would add a way to see how long the pause is for the Rubble, possibly as an indicator around the Rubble circle or even simply a bar underneath it that goes down. Just something simple for the sake of seeing it without having to track the exact amount of time left within the pause.

First thing is to make sure the healing part of Rubble is consistent. What I mean is, when you are missing a small amount of health, let's say 10 heath missing, any amount of Rubble you pick up will only be used for healing. This breaks the flow of collecting armor and Rubble, and acts as an inconvenience towards Atlas. So simply, just have any unused Rubble go back into Atlas's armor count after a full heal.

Second thing I'd also simply do, is make healing Rubble also pause Atlas's armor decay. Just as a way to make Atlas getting his health damaged not to much of a hindrance.

*Speaking of which, I can understand why some feel like Atlas's having to heal his way back for armor is too punishing, as he basically has to pause making himself better by healing back his wounds. I did consider making Rubble both heal and give armor at the same time, but again, with the recent shield changes, it made me ponder once again if it was really necessary to do so. Maybe it's something that could be reasonably done, but probably with a nerf to healing (since you'd be healing yourself while getting stronger now). So let's just say, same amount for armor gain currently (50) but cut the healing part by half (25). Not sure how it could be exactly done, but there are some definite possibilities.

Edit 2: (thanks to (PS4)RuTwen)

Atlas now has a 10m vacuum effect for Rubble pickups. This is meant as a way for Atlas to not have to rely on a Companion with Vacuum/Fetch in order to collect Rubble. To a certain extent, he doesn't have to already, but its definitely more tedious without one. End of Edit 2

There is also the notion of how the extra 1500 armor is not enough for Atlas. Some suggest doubling it, some suggest even making it infinite. In my opinion, I honestly think that the armor amount is fine, especially with the way how Warframe survivability has gotten better with the update. Sure it could be better, but I don't think it's necessarily... necessary.*

Edit 5: Rumbled Heap:

I will admit, I was expecting for Atlas to gain a passive augment for his Immovable one first (since it's his main one), but I guess Rubble Heap will do.

The mod gives some admittedly, pretty good buffs for Landslide. The extra range is very useful and feels good, the extra damage is also good (and kinda insane), and the energy cost removal is nice albeit a little unnecessary in my opinion. I find it very interesting that this Augment feels like a regular set of buffs you would get normal for the level of maintenance is expected from within the mod, but by default.

It does kinda have some conflicting ideas, such as how you only gain benefits to Landslide and no other ability, which I guess is understandable since having a mod that changes a whole ability kit would be insane. There's also how you are expected to constantly build Rubble, which usually requires a lot of Power Efficiency in order to cast Petrify/Rumblers constantly to do so (or if you Path of Statues, it might not matter too much), which seems to contradict the way how you get free Landslide casts during that time.

The threshold from where you are allowed to get the buff is somewhat reasonable, as from 1500 down to 1400 is a total of 22 seconds (which admittedly feels way shorter), so it's a reasonable duration in where you are allowed to use Landslide freely. I will say though, I would preferred a system where you get partial buffs that increases from a certain Rubble amount, let's just say starting at 1000, which then eventually leads to the current buffs. That would have allowed for a more lenient reward, without feeling to stressing to constantly collect Rubble before you release that you've already lost the buff. Speaking of which, I wish there was a visual indication within the HUD that the buff is active. Sometimes it's easy to forget that the Rubble has decreased too far because I've been focusing too much on high damage numbers from high flying speed punches.

In general, it's a good reward-based augment that is mostly fine in my eyes. Now, when looking at how this augment would work in my revisit, it does admittedly become much better; which I guess it's fair since you are using a mod slot for it and there is Earthquake (see below for what that is) for another way to spend your Rubble on. End of Edit 5

Landslide:

Atlas's main attraction and shining ore in a mine of minerals, his 1st ability. Health invincibility, instant lock-on, reduced energy and increased damage with consecutive strikes and much more. It's a pretty solid first ability, but there's a bit of an issue with the concept of how it works. First and foremost, it's an ability that relies on your currently equipped Melee mods or usually as called, a stat stick. Now as an Atlas main myself, of course I also own one, a Prisma Dual Cleavers which happens to use a Riven. With it, I can currently achieve a total of +895% Melee damage, +955% with Steel Charge. As a bonus, it even uses Corrosive damage for better use against Grineer armor. However, most of the build can be replicated with other weapons with the caveat being Justice Blades (+100%) and my Riven (+200% + Electrical element). If you're wondering why I am bringing this up, it's because I want to completely drop the way how Atlas uses a stat stick and convert Landslide into an 'Exalted' weapon, or rather having it's own mod slots of it's own. 

Yes, this is a very complicated change, and could lead into being seen as a nerf, however it's more as a way to lift some weight off of Atlas's huge shoulders and allow some leeway for the weapons he's allowed to use, as well as act more towards a buff. But it's tricky due to how you do have to consider the amount of time some people do spend on Riven mods in order to maximize their Landslide damage, so I do want to consider giving some 'compensation' if the change were to happen. At least, a +200% damage increase by default could be put in place in order to alleviate some of the loss from. I know it's pretty low of a damage increase, but that's due to how much will change in terms of modding and stats to work around that.

Edit 4: And this change would bring upon a solution to the problem of new players using Atlas for the first time, as there's no indicator for them to tell that Landslide is affected by Melee weapon mods. And especially no way to tell what mods actually affect Landslide in the first place. With the Exalted change, players can directly see how and what is actually changing the ability, and allow them mod in a more according fashion (if so chooses). End of Edit 4 (thanks to (XB1)LordZonut for the reminder)

However, there is another way of how Melee weapons affect Landslide, and that's through their combo count multipliers, as with each one Landslide gets a +25% damage increase. Now you would think that by making Landslide an Exalted would mean that the combo counts need to be separate, but not necessarily. The reason why most other Exalted have theirs separated, is due to how they are separate weapon themselves, while Atlas's is still in the form of an ability. You don't technically equip Landslide, nor is there any dedicated stance or additional attacks to it. Just the same 3 attacks in a pattern. The change is meant to allow you to mod it directly, and mostly forget about the Melee weapon you have to use. I know afterwards you could just use Furax Wraith or Venka Prime to still be truly optimal in some sense, but I think reducing down the 'stat stick' mentality helps in the long run.

Edit 3(B): *Note*: The change for Landslide to become Exalted, is not to call for the ability to become channeled or change how it works mechanically. Rather, this is meant to be a way to give Landslide its own mod slots, and to not have to rely on stat sticks. End of Edit 3(B)

The change to Landslide would also introduce two new things for Atlas, Shattering Impact and Pack Leader. Shattering Impact would help greatly with the way how Atlas deals with armor, and Pack Leader to naturally heal your pet as you don't need to switch from Landslide to regular Melee to do so.

Now we also have to address Landslide's "stats". It currently has 5% status chance, 5% crit chance, and 2.0x critical multiplier, which are pretty low.  Mainly the crit chance can be dealt with by having a Kavat companion with you, particularly Adarza (or Smeeta but the former is more reliable). I feel like 15% for each would be much more reasonable. Speaking of status, I think it would also wouldn't hurt to make status actually matter on Landslide too. Since currently the only elemental statuses that can apply from Landslide are Toxin, Heat, Electricity, and Gas, and not even completely too for some reason. It would just be a simple buff to allow Landslide to get full access to status.

Following all of that, and this may be a weird change, but I'm going to change Landslide's 3rd hit ragdoll into guaranteed Impact proc radial attack. Reasons being are two main ones: enemies are sent too far away sometimes, and it can be hard to target enemies who are knockdowned/ragdolled (which by the way, is an issue that still needs fixing, especially when it comes to certain Warframe abilities that make it impossible for Atlas to hit them). The new Impact proc will allow for an easy continuous chain of punching, and not have Atlas to reposition himself too much or go searching for still alive enemies. I would also suggest a slight range increase for the attack as well, from 2m to 5m.

*Now there is one final thing I have to say about Landslide, and it's about it's casting range. Some may argue that Power Range should affect the distance for activation, and that it makes no sense that it shouldn't. While I personally did not see the need to increase the Range, I can see why others say so. However the reason why I don't think it would work is due to Atlas's health invincibility during it, as being able to travel a long distance and unable to be harmed for an attack might be too good. I know other Warframes already have the capabilities of being invincible with little drawback, but I'm trying to view this from an Atlas perspective only. So in order to 'balance' this, I'd say that the invincibility can only activate within it's original range (of 15m). This way some players now have the ability to use Landslide at a longer range, with a slight cost of not being completely safe during it. Just a thought for how it could be done, since I don't really have an opinion for it or against it really.*

Path of Statues:

I don't exactly have too much knowledge of using this Augment, but as far as I'm concerned, some people believe this to be the ultimate mod for Atlas to build for his Landslide. I do have to admit, it is powerful for some extra CC and potential to self Petrify. However, there seems to be a long running issue with it, as for some reason Rubble just doesn't spawn from petrified enemies. Now funnily enough this could be seen as a self-balance as you are using a single ability to build Rubble and kill enemies at the same time. There could be a way to fix the bug and still make the augment still feel strong, is to basically guarantee a Rubble to drop on Petrified targets, however they will drop ones that only give 25 armor/health. You can still increase it to 50 with your Landslides, it will just be weaker for the purpose of how you can Petrify targets instantly with it. Speaking of which...

Petrify:

Now we move onto his 2nd ability, and yes, I said second. The reason for the ability placement is for the changes that are being done to it, with the main one being Petrify's energy cost. Going down from 75 to a reasonable 50 energy. As it is one of Atlas's most important abilities, it felt necessary to move it for it's 2nd, and have a new appropriate energy cost to reflect that.

I also think that a couple adjustments towards Petrify's angle range would also be appreciated. A 60° angle is not that bad, but I feel like it should be a more reasonable 90°, as well as allowing Power Range to slightly affect the angle, probably not up to 180° levels, but more around the 120°~150° angles based on how much is put into it.

Lastly in terms of buffing Petrify, this one might be a bit of a personal issue, but I would also slightly speed up the activation of the Petrify effect on enemies. The casting animation duration is fine, but it feels like there's some delay between you hearing enemies getting petrified from them actually turning to stone. Not exactly a crucial thing, just something that I noticed which bothered me.

Now for the last addition, this one is very small, and meant to be a small little nod to the reference of the ability, but I feel like it could be neat if enemies that directly looked at Atlas during the Petrify cast would get a small flat 2 sec duration increase. I just thought a not-so-significant attention to detail would be neat.

Ore Gaze:

If you recall before Atlas Prime was released, we had the whole Mod Drop Chance Booster debacle and how people felt like it was unfair to remove farming methods with multiple frames and then "sell the buff". Luckily, DE didn't ignore this feedback and decided to re-categorize the farming abilities so they worked with each other, and in apparently in a better way as well. And one of those was Ore Gaze. My general opinion of Ore Gaze is that its fine as a way of giving Atlas a new function for farming, nothing too amazing or special, but acceptable enough to be considered an option. I do like the free Codex scan however, I think it's useful for when new enemies are added and you don't want to bother with manually scanning them. I do wish that Ore Gaze somehow worked on objects and even scan objects, but overall it's fine as it is.

Tectonics / Rumbling Tectonics / etc.:

Atlas's technically old and new ability, as I've basically merged Tectonics and Rumblers into a single ability. *Tectonics and Rumblers are constantly talked about being removed for the sake of giving new options to Atlas's kit, and trying to improve him total.* However, I feel like it's not exactly the correct way of fixing the abilities, as you can definitely still keep them as long as they are massively improved. I've never been a fan of removing or replacing abilities, especially when there's potential to improve them, although I can understand the cases of when it is done properly such as the Wukong or Excalibur reworks. In terms of how using the abilities merged work, basically tapping it forms the Bulwark, while holding it will summon the Rumblers. For the most part, the abilities are kept relatively the same, but of course I do have a lot of adjustments for them.

- Both: Simple Quality of Life change would allow us to see the exact health of Bulwark and the Rumblers on our HUD. This is meant to improve the maintenance of the Bulwark and Rumblers by making it easier to see their health. Bulwark does have an indicator in percentages on the ability icon, but it's vague in terms of how much exact health the Bulwark has.

The energy cost of both is dependent on which version you use. Bulwark costs 50 energy, while Rumblers now cost 75. This change is meant to reflect the way how the two abilities have become a 3rd one, so the energy cost changes were also made. I was planning to make Rumblers cost 50 energy, but decided against it because that might make solo Rubble building too good.

- Bulwark: Increase in size (somewhat wider but much more tall) and more convex curvature. This is meant to improve the issues with the Bulwark not doing a good job in protecting certain objectives or areas due to it's relatively small size. 

Has a higher Threat Level (generates more aggro) during it's activation and has a constant but short (1/2/3/4 secs) aggro effect every 10 seconds within 15m (affected by Power Range). These new aggro effects are meant to increase the purpose of defensiveness for the Bulwark, as now it causes enemies to focus on itself rather than the protected target/objective. Before enemies could some times simply ignore the Bulwark and directly shoot the objective.

Petrify now gives an armor buff to Bulwark. As a way to make the Petrified Bulwark have more of a purpose besides indicating a stronger Boulder.

Small addition: Enemies can be seen through the Bulwark by at least 30m (as highlighted). This is meant to compensate for the Bulwark's greater size, as it may be harder to see enemies through it.

- Boulder: Increase in size (in relation to Bulwark's new size), damage increase based on Bulwark's health. Meant to connect the re-activation more with its previous iteration, as well as add a purpose to building up the health of the Bulwark first before activating the Boulder. Also meant to help with scaling the damage of it as well.

Adds a slight vacuum effect (5m) to pull in enemies, now bounces off walls/objects instead of instantly exploding (with a small increase to speed). These two changes are meant to increase the effectiveness for not only the CC of the Boulder, but also the time it's activation as before it wouldn't serve much of a purpose when activating near closed in areas or in front of objective points.

Enemies that are killed from a Boulder (or Landslide Boulder) have a 50% chance to drop Rubble. Meant as a new way to get Rubble, but not be completely reliable rather as a side effect for using the Boulder.

Petrify buff stays relatively the same. New synergy: Landslide can now be casted onto the Boulder, which activates the explosion, adding it's damage to the blast and increasing it's range. Landslide can be casted on a Petrified Boulder two times. By adding this new synergy with Landslide, it will allow the function of Boulder's offensive capabilities to increase with an equal powerful offense-based move.

- Rumblers: Rumblers' attacks now considered as Melee and shares Landslide's mods (besides crit and status). With these changes, Rumblers should scale a lot more better in higher levels, as before they struggled dealing damage to enemies.

Rumblers active duration is now infinite when the Rubble amount is +1000. The reason for this type of change, was to add a way for Rumblers to essentially exist for a longer time, but not making it as simple as making the duration infinite. Mostly due to how the scaling of them was just improved, and I felt like there needed to be a way to balance it. Also if you are wondering,  if Rumblers is currently active and you get 1000 Rubble, their duration becomes infinite. And when you lose 1000 Rubble, there will be a small period of the duration pausing before it goes back to the usual time.

Rock Throws causes a stun/great stagger (stun based on Power Duration) instead of a ragdoll. This change is meant to be consistent with the Landslide 3rd hit changed I made (changing it's ragdoll to a forced Impact proc), as the ragdoll in the Rock Throw attacks aren't necessarily bad, but break the flow of fighting enemies. Instead a stun or a long stagger would be satisfactory changes to improve on that front, with the stun probably being more better.

'Teleport' mechanic is adjusted to give 5 seconds of delay to a Rumbler who is currently aggro'd. Not sure when this was added, but Atlas's Rumblers got a mechanic similar to Wukong's Celestial Twin, in which they would teleport to Atlas when far away. I don't think it's necessarily a bad change and it could be kept, but it does conflict when Rumblers are currently aggro'd against enemies. So I feel like a 5 second delay to their teleport would be fine.

New synergy: casting Landslide now causes Rumblers to perform a 'pseudo-Landslide' and gains a +25% increase in damage. Meant to help with Rumblers dealing damage, as well as adding a natural synergy since you would be already using Landslide a lot.

By the way, as a small nitpick, why did they use Rumblers as a name? It's not too unfitting but it feels pretty uninspired. Why not a name like "Atlantides"? A reference to the many daughters that Atlas had in Greek mythology. I don't know, it always felt weird to me.

Basically the whole point is to keep the current functions of these abilities, but still improve on them and try to keep them intact in some fashion. I felt like merging the abilities was not only a way to give Atlas a new option for an ability, but to alleviate some of the reasons why people felt like Atlas had a weak ability kit of being only half functional.

Tectonic Fracture / Titanic Rumbler:

For the basic solution and sake of simplicity for dealing with the two Augments, I'd simply just merge them with no changes to how they function. Although, I think it could be interesting to take the idea of Tectonic Fracture and apply that to Rumblers, where you can have up to 4 Rumblers at once. A way to balance it would be that you could have only 4 active abilities, so 1 Bulwark and 3 Rumblers; 3 Bulwark and 1 Rumbler and so on. Simply merging the two Augments would be simple, but maybe doing something new with them could be interesting and maybe better.

Edit 6: Rumbled:

Another option that Rumblers has as an Augment, is Rumbled. Once only for Conclave players, now for the rest of the playerbase. I will admit, at first I wasn't so keen on the idea of the ability due to the way how the mod functioned and changed Atlas, however I still liked the initial idea of the trade-off. Instead of 2 minion spawns that can help spread out aggro and damage, instead Atlas gets better tanking capabilities. However, I feel like the biggest flaws about this Augment, are definitely the movement restrictions and the weapon replacements.

Let's start with the former. I can understand within a PVP setting that you'd want to restrict a player's movement for them to become better capable of taking damage, however it really doesn't work in the more movement focus parts of the game... which is most of it. The only movement options available are rolling and aim glide, and while there are decent options for moving around, it's unreliable and doesn't make up for not being able to do basic things like slide or jump. I'd change it to only being able to jump once, slower wall jumping, less friction on slides and the ability to crouch; this way means movement options aren't completely restricted and don't require a deactivation for basic things like getting stuck in a short hole.

And then finally the ladder. The Rock Throw attack is somewhat decent, due to the fashion of how it has more reliable status procs than Landslide, and can work well with it depending on the status used. However, just like with Rumblers, the ragdoll is still somewhat of a deal breaker for me. Because not only am I not at the same speed to be able to catch up with a ragdoll enemy, but it's also coupled with the damage that I am doing to not warrant the massive ragdoll. I'd would mainly adjust the Rock Throw, with not just the same stun effect change as with my Rumblers changes, but also add the crit chance to the weapon, for at least 10%. And then there's the Slam Attack... which just ragdolls and does barely any damage. Just increase the damage by having it use 50% of the Rock Throw damage, increase the radius of the attack, decrease the damage falloff to 100-50% from 100-0%, and make the range *slightly* affected by Power Range. I understand you still have access to Landslide and can just use that as the main source of damage, but there should still be worth in new weapons compared to the previous ones I equipped.

I don't mind having to build for Duration when it comes to this mod, since the purpose of it is to have a new amount of HP you gain for tanking, but I do mind losing the solo Rubble build. Surprisingly the small radial Petrify effect is still present, but it would be really appreciated by deactivating Rumbled gave a small amount of Rubble (just the usual 50), since the Titanic Rumbler augment can do the same (and considering the viability of certain trade-offs, it's not currently worth losing it).

So yeah, not a bad Augment in theory and PvP, but flawed in terms of execution/transporting into PvE. Now in terms of how this mod would function in my revisit, it would be pretty odd to only change a single part of the combined abilities, so instead of trying to change Bulwark, I decided to only make it so that the Boulder can now be absorbed by Atlas (if he stands in front of it), to heal 20% of the current Rumbled health pool. It would act as a unique function for Atlas, and since he can't "heal himself" with Petrify similar to regular Rumblers, I suppose using the Boulder (that's within the same ability) is the next possible thing. End of Edit 6

(NEW) Earthquake:

And here is where I introduce the new potential for a new ability for Atlas. It's not entirely unique, but the purpose of it and how it works will bring a unique function to Atlas. Basically as how I describe it, a "Nuke-CC" ability. It's not meant to do damage necessarily, instead it's meant to set up levels of CC and serve a new function for Rubble as the ability can be charged with it. Let's break it down.

Description: Atlas creates a formation of the Earth on top of him, then presses on the ground with a lunge, causing a massive earthquake to incapacitate and weaken enemies. Charging the ability begins to shred Atlas's Rubble for power, creating new effects. 

Detailed Version: Atlas creates a formation of the Earth... ...causing a massive earthquake that hits enemies in a 20/30/40/50 meter radius, and inflicts 200/300/400/500 Impact damage (with a 50% proc chance) on enemies, while causing them to knock down (in the case of a stagger, it will perform first then the knockdown). Damaged enemies are applied with a special effect, that increases the status and crit chance against those enemies by +60%3C each for 10/15/20/25 seconds and movement speed permanently decreased by 50% (can still perform actions at the same speed). Energy cost is 100.

Edit 3(C): *Note* The status/crit debuff of Earthquake has been increased to +60% each from +30% each. After reflecting a bit in terms of the Status Buffs in the Revised Mainline and worth of building Duration for Earthquake, I have decided to increase the values of both the crit and status chances, as 30% was admittedly too low to care about or be significant. End of Edit 3(C)

- It's a two part ability, as the first cast will create the Earth formation, while the next cast will cause the Earthquake. Before the second part, you can hold the ability to continue charging Rubble for the ability. At the 500 Rubble mark, you can no longer charge and any further activation will begin the second part.

- During the charging of the Rubble, you will see a curved bar to the left of the Rubble gauge, indicating how much Rubble is being used for Earthquake.

Cast Animation Description: The first part of the animation starts with Atlas forming a small sphere of rock between his hands in front of him of his chest, then lifts his hands in the air as the sphere expands and creates the form of the Earth. The formation stays in the air on top of Atlas as it levitates. The second part of the animation, Atlas performs a forward lunge as the sphere lands on his shoulders, and the ground begins to shake and crack underneath his knee. Afterwards, the Earth formation disintegrates to small pieces and Atlas relieves his arms outwards as he stands back up. The first part of the cast should be 2-3 seconds, with the last one lasting 2-3 seconds as well (total cast round to 5-6 seconds).

- Yes, the entire animation is meant to be a reference to the common depiction of Atlas holding Gaia over his shoulders while kneeling down. I know Atlas in the Greek mythology was actually holding the sky instead of the physical Earth, I decided to use this interpretation as I felt like it had a more interesting appearance to it. Plus you could do something fun such as making the formation that Atlas creates to be the same as the current planet that he is on (You'd had to do something general for non-planet tilesets like the Void or Kuva Fortress, although the ladder could be considered one when you think about it).

Details:

  • Casting range is affected by Power Range
  • Damage is affected by Power Strength
  • Crit and Status debuff duration affected by Power Duration

- Rubble can be used in order to increase the damage of the radial attack and add new effects.

  • For every Rubble used, the damage is increased by 2 damage, up to a maximum of +1000 damage. Only a maximum of 500 Rubble can be used, and once it has reached that point it will automatically cast.
  • At 100 Rubble, the duration for the crit and status debuff is increased by a flat 5 seconds (additive after Power Duration).
  • At 200 Rubble, 3 Impact procs are placed on damaged opponents before the knockdown, and aerial opponents (at least 5m~ off ground) also get briefly knocked to the ground, taking 50% of the damage.
  • At 250 Rubble, 25% of the energy used is refunded back to Atlas.
  • At 300 Rubble, Heat damage is added to the attack (equal to base Impact damage, separate from Rubble damage increase and unaffected by Power Strength) and has a 50% proc chance.
  • At 400 Rubble, there is now a 25% chance to Petrify enemies (duration based on Earthquake duration and Power Duration), with Impact and Heat proc chance increasing by 25%.
  • At 500 Rubble, another 25% of used energy is refunded back and Petrify chance is increased by 25% and Impact and Heat procs are 100% guaranteed.

- During the the second part of casting, a small 2 second Rubble decay pause is applied. While charging rubble, a second of delay is added for each stage.

- Airborne enemies cannot be hit by the Earthquake (aside from stage 2 exception), including Ospreys, flying Hellions, etc. Levitating enemies that are close to ground, such as Sentients, can still be damaged by the ability, albeit only briefly knocked to the ground.

- Atlas can still collect armor and health Rubble during the charging phase, as the Rubble used is separate from any new retrieved ones.

- Once Rubble is used for the Earth formation, it cannot be refunded back.

Edit 1(A):

- Earthquake can damage enemies who are on lower areas, but not elevated areas with exception for 2nd stage.

- Petrify effects are applied before damage, in order to make sure the effect can take place before an enemy's death. End of Edit 1(A)

Edit 3(D):

- Rubble charging can be canceled into the casting of other abilities; meant to act as a lenient way to perform Rubble charging without feeling to fully commit to doing so, as it can be multi-tasked along aside with other ability castings. End of Edit 3(D)

Synergies: Rumblers and Tectonics that are within the Earthquake radius during it's 3rd (and following) stages, get new effects for that last for half of the current enemy-hit duration.

- Bulwark gains +40% Heat resistance, while the Boulder gains +25% Heat damage.

- Rumblers gain +25% Heat damage. Extra damage is standalone, and does not combine with other elemental damages (also the same for Bulwark).

That's essentially the basics of the new ability, sorry I didn't provide any formulas for Power Stats but that's because I hate math and my brain can't process anything more than PEMDAS. I tried to make it feel rewarding, fluent to use, and in general worth using your Rubble for it. I'm thinking the damage output from the ability is probably weak, but it's not entirely the point, it's more about the setup and CC you get from it. Now while I have this general idea out for what could be a potentially great ability, I'm somewhat stuck on what an augment could be.

Augment: The reason why I am stuck on making an Augment for this, is that my opinion on Augments are somewhat conflicted, especially with the precedent they have set for certain Warframe builds and how some have become essential to use for certain ones. Generally there's usually 3 types of Augments, A) very basic addition/change to an ability to the point where it could have been present by default or should have worked that way, B) a new function is given the ability, which if good enough can give the Warframe a new purpose/play style, C) changes the way how the ability works, serves as an alternate way for the ability to function/play the Warframe. I usually like the B or C options, but it does bother me a how some prevalent augments tend to follow the A structure.

So in general, I'm not exactly sure how to make an augment for Earthquake. I don't mind suggestions for one, but the only one I could think is either turning the Rubble charge stages into self-buffs for Atlas or changing the way how the Rubble charge works, not exactly sure.

Edit 1(B):

Augment Idea for Earthquake has now been added:

Telepathic Plates: Earthquake deals 40/35/30/25% less overall damage, but enemies who are affected are highlighted (within Range equivalent to Earthquake's) permanently. Loot is highlighted for 15/20/25/30 seconds (affected by Power Duration). Passive: +2/3/4/5m range for Earthquake (also affected by Power Range, additive with default).

This is meant to be somewhat unique in terms of functions, Loot Searching. Technically Atlas isn't the first Warframe whose capable of doing this, as I'd say Khora was the first one to do so with being able to equip double (Primed) Animal Instinct on both of her companions. I felt like allowing enemies to be permanently highlight enemies and temporarily so for loot would require some slight tweaks in the way how Earthquake works, so I slightly reduced the damage while giving a passive Range buff. And with the way how the added Range can be further increased, the damage reduction felt somewhat necessary to balance it out.

Obviously I am still taking suggestions for Augments for Earthquake, as this one is more of an idea than an absolute conclusion for one. End of Edit 1(B)

For the most part, I am somewhat done here, but I do want to end with some additional notes that relate to Atlas but are don't matter too much compared to the stuff I talked about.

Ability Appearance: Atlas doesn't necessarily have some of the flashiest abilities in general, and that's general fine for me personally. I do kinda like how the more down-to-basics approach of making most of his effects just rocks is a neat stylistic approach to Atlas that I don't necessarily enjoy but can appreciate. However, I feel like Atlas is one of those frames whose stylistic approaches to the abilities are limited, not because of the way they work or use models/particles, but rather they way they are scripted or set up technically. Think about it, his Deluxe was the first time where his ability appearance was allowed to change, but the Rubble armor looked the same, Landslide and Tectonics looked the same, only the Rumblers got a style touch-up. Same with his Prime, with the exception of the strange Bulwark retexture, it felt somewhat hindered by some arbitrary factors.

I think it would really benefit to probably redo how his ability models are scripted and give him the proper changes for his Deluxe and Primes. His Deluxe could finally get a coating of gems for the Rubble armor, and his Prime Landslide could have a really cool gilded appearance to the gauntlets. As well it could heighten the customization for Atlas if they so choosed to even allow us to customize the Rumblers and all of his other Rock formations separately from Atlas and perhaps allow us to choose which version of the Rocks we want to use (not individually, more as a whole, let's not get too crazy). Just as a way to spruce his abilities up and feel updated.

Body Model Appearance: Now in terms of Atlas's default body model, I know it's definitely a very weird appearance and some people argue it makes Atlas one of the ugliest Warframe, but honestly it's a very standard looking model if we're talking about general Warframes. Sure, it lacks metallic textures and chest flaps are definitely a bit strange, but generally speaking, it's nothing to out of the ordinary. I've gotten use to the appearance, and generally speaking I've grown to like it. However there has been one thing that has always been bugging me, and not many people may notice this when playing Atlas, but it's his shoulders. Not because of how broad and wide they are, perfectly fine with that, my issue is how they get become messed up in basic animations. It's extremely noticeable when you aim a secondary (besides Throwing weapons), it makes his shoulder almost fold into itself. Kinda feels like his model wasn't made with the thought of specific types of animations.

I don't think it would hurt to adjust his skeleton rig a bit, and make sure his model doesn't break under basic animations. Not necessarily asking for his model to be updated, since I feel like that would conflict with the TennoGen skins he has (or may have in the future), but I also wouldn't mind it if that was a factor of having to fix his animations. Although the only thing I ask for in that specific situation, is not to go to overboard and completely redo Atlas, since I think the rest of his model animates fine.

Finally the, TL,DRaRDEAAAPRmbyAS-DMwNEBTD;

Rubble decay only starts when Health is damaged, healing part of Rubble is more consistent and pauses Rubble decay, 10m vacuum for Rubble pickups;

Landslide is now an 'Exalted' weapon (not channeled or mechanically changed, only in the sense of obtaining mod slots), +200% damage increase, Crit and Status chance buff (15% each) and Status can be properly applied through Landslide, 3rd hit of Landslide now causes a forced Impact proc blast of 5m, Path of Statues is more consistent (with a small nerf to Rubble gain);

Petrify is now the 2nd ability, energy cost is 50 now, angle extended to 90 degrees and is affected by Power Range, Petrify effect is slightly faster on enemies, and enemies looking at Atlas during the ability has effect extended for 2 seconds, Ore Gaze kept the same;

Tectonics and Rumblers are now merged into one ability, Tectonics ability energy cost is kept the same and Rumblers reducing to 75 energy, health of both structured entities now appear on HUD,

Bulwark size is increased and has more curvature, Bulwark has more Threat Level during activation and with new frequent aggro effects, Petrify gives an armor buff to Bulwark, enemies are now highlighted within 30m through the Bulwark, Boulder is increased in size and now increases damage with health of the Bulwark, adds a slight vacuum effect and now bounces off to walls/objects, enemies killed by Boulder have a 50% chance to drop Rubble, Landslide can now be casted onto the Boulder,

Rumblers' attacks are considered as Melee and share Landslide's damage mods, Rumblers' active duration is infinite while Rubble is over +1000, Rock Throw attack now causes a stun/stagger instead of ragdoll, Teleport mechanic now has a 5 second delayed for aggro'd Rumblers, casting Landslide causes Rumblers to do a 'psuedo-Landslide' and deal +25% damage, Tectonic Fracture and Titanic Rumbler augments are merged;

New ability is added to fill the 4th ability slot, Earthquake is a large AoE CC attack which begins with forming an Earth formation on top of Atlas then pressing down with a lunge causing the ground to shake and crack, Rubble can be used to charge and add new effects and increase damage, casting and each Rubble stage would slightly pause the Rubble decay, Earthquake powers nearby Tectonics and Rumbler abilities.

Conclusion:

And that's it. I will be honest, there could have probably been more things to discuss, but I felt like what I had said was satisfactory. I will of course would like to know any reader's thoughts and questions, because I probably may have been vague and left out certain things and I wouldn't mind doing some clarification or additions towards. Thank you for your time, and have a good day or night.

Edited by Scruffel
Edit 6 Update (Rumbled)
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ty for your opinions. I have an idea look very cool if charge landslide can release rumbler punch along with it but not have the amor buff like if u use 4. stoned enemy by ore gaze can make rumbler run directly toward them then interact with a slam like earth quake if his 4 remaining in the meantime for extra CC and damage buff. But it have a cool down time affect by power duration so u cant spam it. 

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Posted (edited)

i agree, there is also some weird bug with Atlas sometime in an mission Petrified enemies do not drop Rubble at all in whole mission 

Just relise there is bug topic here but seem problem not fixed yet

 

Edited by blackovercoat
moa info

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5 hours ago, Scruffel said:

Sleep-Depraved

Please, before I go further, fix this one.

’Deprived’ is when you haven’t had enough of something you need. ‘Depraved’ is when you’re... a deviant... that’s literally the nicest word I can use there. And not the kind of deviant that people enjoy, either.

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Posted (edited)

Totally agreed with everything said above. Atlas is a rather painful Warframe to play right now due to how poorly his mechanics work (still love him). He needs to be tweaked, and his fists should be an exalted weapon.

 

Also, energy costs. They are insane.

Edited by Morisabeau

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3 hours ago, blackovercoat said:

i agree, there is also some weird bug with Atlas sometime in an mission Petrified enemies do not drop Rubble at all in whole mission 

Just relise there is bug topic here but seem problem not fixed yet

 

Never experienced anything like that during any of my time playing him, and I will admit that is a very bad bug if it were to happen. I do recall sometimes where my Bulwark just wouldn't spawn in front of me sometimes, probably having something to do with the aerial cast changes that was made to it (forgot which update). But it was easily fix by trying to do it again or funnily enough, casting it in the air.

I wonder if that has something to do with Path of Statues current inconsistent Rubble dropping in some way, but yeah, that's very odd.

47 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Please, before I go further, fix this one.

’Deprived’ is when you haven’t had enough of something you need. ‘Depraved’ is when you’re... a deviant... that’s literally the nicest word I can use there. And not the kind of deviant that people enjoy, either.

I had always wonder if there was some typo I somehow slipped through, and of course it's related to the reason why it took me a long time to even type the thread. Thank you. I mean, there's probably much more, but that is a glaring one.

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This is simply beautiful. I miss the applause reaction, so 👏.

Atlas is in my top 5 most used, but with a rework like this he could easily jump up from my 4th place. I've always loved him thematically, but not necessarily function (with the obvious half of hit kit that had the most problems). He's still my go-to tank, and provides decent enough CC, but overall he needed more.

If they had given him a rework, even remotely close to this, he wouldn't have become the only one of my top 5 that I flat out refused to buy Prime Access for. And maybe they wouldn't have had to end his failed PA early.

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13 hours ago, Scruffel said:

Never experienced anything like that during any of my time playing him, and I will admit that is a very bad bug if it were to happen. I do recall sometimes where my Bulwark just wouldn't spawn in front of me sometimes, probably having something to do with the aerial cast changes that was made to it (forgot which update). But it was easily fix by trying to do it again or funnily enough, casting it in the air.

I wonder if that has something to do with Path of Statues current inconsistent Rubble dropping in some way, but yeah, that's very odd.

I had always wonder if there was some typo I somehow slipped through, and of course it's related to the reason why it took me a long time to even type the thread. Thank you. I mean, there's probably much more, but that is a glaring one.

i just got the bug again yesterday, to me seem the Rubbles drop from enemies got Petrified by his Argument (Path of Statue) do not do anything

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Posted (edited)

I decided to add a couple of things for some clarification and to make sure I didn't miss anything. I will also be adding those changes to here, so you don't need to go searching through piles of text to do so. Any sort of additions will be labeled with Edit 1:

Note(s) for Earthquake:

- Earthquake can damage enemies who are on lower areas, but not elevated areas with exception.

- Petrify effects are applied before damage, in order to make sure the effect can take place before an enemy's death.

Augment Idea for Earthquake has now been added:

Telepathic Plates: Earthquake deals 40/35/30/25% less overall damage, but enemies who are affected are highlighted (within Range equivalent to Earthquake's) permanently. Loot is highlighted for 15/20/25/30 seconds (affected by Power Duration). Passive: +2/3/4/5m range for Earthquake (also affected by Power Range, additive with default).

This is meant to be somewhat unique in terms of functions, Loot Searching. Technically Atlas isn't the first Warframe whose capable of doing this, as I'd say Khora was the first one to do so with being able to equip double (Primed) Animal Instinct on both of her companions. I felt like allowing enemies to be permanently highlight enemies and temporarily so for loot would require some slight tweaks in the way how Earthquake works, so I slightly reduced the damage while giving a passive Range buff. And with the way how the added Range can be further increased, the damage reduction felt somewhat necessary to balance it out.

Obviously I am still taking suggestions for Augments for Earthquake, as this one is more of an idea than an absolute conclusion for one.

Edited by Scruffel

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While I love atlas and played him for some time and i agree that he has some issues(useless 2, situational 4) he ouscales all other frames with his 1. Making his lanslide an exalted ability is the the thing that i hate the most when i read posts about reworking Atlas, stop asking for this,by asking for landslide to be an exalted ability you are basically asking for a damage cap for using the weapon, you can use the weapon, just don't add spoiled strike and pick a fast hitting weapon(sword, dagger, dual swords)

Atlas is unique because is not brain dead, you need at least basic modding knowledge on how to mod him(go 300 power you suffer in long run etc), and how to survive, you can pick a 300% dmg riven for a trash weapon for 50 plat. 

It took a me a year to realize that natural talent and primed continuity actually make atlas a true brawler and all around good frame, what i think he really needs is vacuum on that ruble(as his tankiness falls off in high level after your pet dies as you no longer can sustain the passive) and a better AI for those rumblers as sometimes they are stupid, other than that i don't really see an isssue with him.It would be nice if DE made fixed the inconsistencies  on landslide immune enemies(capture targets or kuva guards)

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I kind of stoped reading after the landslide change because man that some serios beating around the bush. 

3 paragraphs to say imcreased status chance , increased critical chance. Landslide is now considered a weapon for modding purposes and received a damage buff to compensate the loss of riven mods. Replaced ragroll at the 3 hit of land slide with a impact proc to allow atlas to keep chaining his puches 

I even did a entire Atlas rework in the same amount of words that took to describe landslide and its changes

 

 

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52 minutes ago, (PS4)RuTweN said:

While I love atlas and played him for some time and i agree that he has some issues(useless 2, situational 4) he ouscales all other frames with his 1. Making his lanslide an exalted ability is the the thing that i hate the most when i read posts about reworking Atlas, stop asking for this,by asking for landslide to be an exalted ability you are basically asking for a damage cap for using the weapon, you can use the weapon, just don't add spoiled strike and pick a fast hitting weapon(sword, dagger, dual swords)

Could you please elaborate on how making Landslide an Exalted "asking for a damage cap"? Aside from the removal of Rivens (which to be honest, a Warframe shouldn't have to rely on one to do damage), I'm not exactly understanding that. I am technically giving more damage with proper Status effects and Shattering Impact availability. And what does "you can use the weapon, just don't add spoiled strike and pick a fast hitting weapon(sword, dagger, dual swords)" mean as well?

55 minutes ago, (PS4)RuTweN said:

It took a me a year to realize that natural talent and primed continuity actually make atlas a true brawler and all around good frame, what i think he really needs is vacuum on that ruble(as his tankiness falls off in high level after your pet dies as you no longer can sustain the passive) and a better AI for those rumblers as sometimes they are stupid, other than that i don't really see an isssue with him.It would be nice if DE made fixed the inconsistencies  on landslide immune enemies(capture targets or kuva guards)

I will admit, I forgot to mention how you do need a companion with Vacuum/Fetch in order to actually collect Rubble, so in some fairness I think Atlas should have Rubble Vacuum by default, with a range of let's just say, 10m. Not sure if the Vacuum effect should be overridden by stronger ones (which either mod would be), since I feel like a +20m vacuum would be unnecessary, but probably not too much to be an issue. I'll add it as a part in the Rubble section under Edit 2:, with a thanks to yourself.

Honestly, the Rumblers are not the only thing that call for an AI changing, as I'd rather have a huge overhaul for AI in general. And since DE seems to still be doing revisions, I'm hoping Enemy and Friendly AI are among those types of fixes. So I agree on that front, but it's more of a general problem than an Atlas one.

With the Landslide immune enemies you listed... Capture targets are already resistant to most abilities, so it's not exactly a surprise that you can't target Landslide against them. And for Kuva Guardians, well I just played a Kuva Siphon for this, but you can definitely target them with Landslide outside of their invincibility period (which honestly using a damage ability during it would be somewhat redundant).

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1 hour ago, keikogi said:

I kind of stoped reading after the landslide change because man that some serios beating around the bush. 

3 paragraphs to say imcreased status chance , increased critical chance. Landslide is now considered a weapon for modding purposes and received a damage buff to compensate the loss of riven mods. Replaced ragroll at the 3 hit of land slide with a impact proc to allow atlas to keep chaining his puches 

I even did a entire Atlas rework in the same amount of words that took to describe landslide and its changes

 

That's why I have a TL,DR segment in case you just wanted to read the changes I suggest without having to read my explanations, reasonings, and opinions on them.

I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is besides critiquing my typing and linking your thread. Which by the way, even though it does have less words than my Landslide change section, it also has less changes to improve Atlas, so... I'm not sure what to say about this except for, thanks? I guess?

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16 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

Could you please elaborate on how making Landslide an Exalted "asking for a damage cap"? Aside from the removal of Rivens (which to be honest, a Warframe shouldn't have to rely on one to do damage), I'm not exactly understanding that. I am technically giving more damage with proper Status effects and Shattering Impact availability. And what does "you can use the weapon, just don't add spoiled strike and pick a fast hitting weapon(sword, dagger, dual swords)" mean as well?

I will admit, I forgot to mention how you do need a companion with Vacuum/Fetch in order to actually collect Rubble, so in some fairness I think Atlas should have Rubble Vacuum by default, with a range of let's just say, 10m. Not sure if the Vacuum effect should be overridden by stronger ones (which either mod would be), since I feel like a +20m vacuum would be unnecessary, but probably not too much to be an issue. I'll add it as a part in the Rubble section under Edit 2:, with a thanks to yourself.

Honestly, the Rumblers are not the only thing that call for an AI changing, as I'd rather have a huge overhaul for AI in general. And since DE seems to still be doing revisions, I'm hoping Enemy and Friendly AI are among those types of fixes. So I agree on that front, but it's more of a general problem than an Atlas one.

With the Landslide immune enemies you listed... Capture targets are already resistant to most abilities, so it's not exactly a surprise that you can't target Landslide against them. And for Kuva Guardians, well I just played a Kuva Siphon for this, but you can definitely target them with Landslide outside of their invincibility period (which honestly using a damage ability during it would be somewhat redundant).

Atlas does not need a riven to do damage large amount of damage, think of them as an warframe augments, even without rivens and an impact mod you can clear sorties.Making fists exalted weapons  it creates a limit on how much damage you can pump in one ability also you reduce the diversity of builds. Yes you said improve crit and status but also making it exalted means constant energy drain->building for efficiency-> less survivability. If you want exalted fists try baruuk. 

Regarding weapons, with atlas build for landslide you pump everything into raw dmg available, with 3.0 the combos(at least for swords) have a spin attack, even with spoiled strike a quick melee is enough to clear lvl 150 grineer. Again, not sure why are you playing atlas if you want to play with melee and again, you can build hybrid. 

Rivens are not a necesity but add the spice that makes it different from the rest of channel melees, the rivens are not limited to one weapon( you need x weapon riven to do dmg) as any weapon works

I had this issue with the guardians where i can hit one guardian and the second one is untargetable until he picks his weapon again. Before i took a break i was able to hunt acolytes and capture targets using landslide and i coudn't find anything in the patch notes. 

Should be nice if the vacuum for rumblers should be based on afinity range and rumble decay based on duration

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8 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

That's why I have a TL,DR segment in case you just wanted to read the changes I suggest without having to read my explanations, reasonings, and opinions on them.

Saw it but it is harder to read than it need to be because of spacing , on mobile it just looks like a wall of text even dough it is diferent paragraphs for each skill.

10 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

I'm not sure what the purpose of your post is besides critiquing my typing and linking your thread. Which by the way, even though it does have less words than my Landslide change section, it also has less changes to improve Atlas, so... I'm not sure what to say about this except for, thanks? I guess?

I linked to my thread just to provide a example of a compact format , problem in italic x solution in bullet points. The Thread is locked so there is no point on advertising it. 

My overall point is formating helps. 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)RuTweN said:

Atlas does not need a riven to do damage large amount of damage, think of them as an warframe augments, even without rivens and an impact mod you can clear sorties.Making fists exalted weapons  it creates a limit on how much damage you can pump in one ability also you reduce the diversity of builds. Yes you said improve crit and status but also making it exalted means constant energy drain->building for efficiency-> less survivability. If you want exalted fists try baruuk. 

Oh ok, I think we had a misunderstanding. When I say the change for making Landslide an Exalted, I'm not talking about ones like Exalted Blade where there's an energy drain attached to it. I'm talking about allowing for separate modding for Landslide and not having to rely on equipped Melee mods to do so. The ability is used the same way, it's just modded differently now.

16 minutes ago, (PS4)RuTweN said:

Regarding weapons, with atlas build for landslide you pump everything into raw dmg available, with 3.0 the combos(at least for swords) have a spin attack, even with spoiled strike a quick melee is enough to clear lvl 150 grineer. Again, not sure why are you playing atlas if you want to play with melee and again, you can build hybrid. 

It's less about wanting to use Melee constantly as Atlas, it's more about being less restricted with your choice of weapon, so you can use more utility based ones or honestly which ever one you want. I don't find the concept of stat sticking to be unfair or restricting necessarily, but the better ones are always preferred or used in those scenarios, so it eventually results in options being limited for the most 'optimal' builds.

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29 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Saw it but it is harder to read than it need to be because of spacing , on mobile it just looks like a wall of text even dough it is diferent paragraphs for each skill.

I linked to my thread just to provide a example of a compact format , problem in italic x solution in bullet points. The Thread is locked so there is no point on advertising it. 

My overall point is formating helps. 

Well, again, thanks. But next time, and I'm being honest about this, it would be better to say it outright. I wasn't exactly sure if you were talking about my formatting/typing or wanted me to respond to your Atlas rework. I'm probably going to begin re-formatting at a later time then.

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6 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

It's less about wanting to use Melee constantly as Atlas, it's more about being less restricted with your choice of weapon, so you can use more utility based ones or honestly which ever one you want. I don't find the concept of stat sticking to be unfair or restricting necessarily, but the better ones are always preferred or used in those scenarios, so it eventually results in options being limited for the most 'optimal' builds.

The build is the no matter what, impact mods, element mods and more damage, Melee rivens will be balanced soon, even so a riven with 1 disposition vs 1.5 is arount 50%-70% more dmg on a dmg roll which is not that impactfull when you overkill everything. 

Tbh Atlas already has a low play rate if DE changes landslide it will drop even lower as it won't having anything different than baruuk/hyldrin. 

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)RuTweN said:

The build is the no matter what, impact mods, element mods and more damage, Melee rivens will be balanced soon, even so a riven with 1 disposition vs 1.5 is arount 50%-70% more dmg on a dmg roll which is not that impactfull when you overkill everything. 

Tbh Atlas already has a low play rate if DE changes landslide it will drop even lower as it won't having anything different than baruuk/hyldrin. 

I know what the build is, but considering how you're saying it's the same for any weapon, then does it really matter that you can mod Landslide separately then? You would basically use the same build for it. In fact, for people who don't care about using specific stat sticks for the build, it would just serve as a buff overall for them with my changes.

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Well, as the saying goes, "Better late than never". This is just meant to not only act as a thread bump with substance, but also act as a small update on things and adjustments to certain abilities. Of course as usual, any additions will be labelled with Edit 3:

Scarlet Spear Passive Buff:

The somewhat recent Scarlet Spear update has, for some reason, brought Atlas another buff since he can now ignore Staggers. Even though I believe it to be unnecessary, I can't complain since again, I'll take it. This not only means that Atlas only has to worry about Flinching (which is barely anything), but this also means certain enemies practically become irrelevant to Atlas, such as Rollers. They are practically the equivalent to a mobile soccer ball now (even though they always were, just more annoying).

Slight Additions/Buffs to Earthquake:

- Rubble charging can be canceled into from the casting of other abilities; meant to act a lenient way to perform Rubble charging without feeling to fully commit to doing so, as it can be multi-tasked along aside other ability casting.

*Note* The status/crit debuff of Earthquake has been increased to +60% each from +30% each. After reflecting a bit in terms of the Status Buffs in the Revised Mainline and worth of building Duration for Earthquake, I have decided to increase the values of both the crit and status chances, as 30% was admittedly too low to care about or be significant.

Added a Note to Landslide Changes:

*Note*: The change for Landslide to become Exalted, is not to call for the ability to become channeled or change how it works mechanically. Rather, this is meant to be a way to give Landslide its own mod slots, to not have to rely on stat sticks.

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Posted (edited)

If they make atlas's fists exaulted, they better change exalted to allow acolyte mods. 

 

Personally i would just like a base crit and status chance buff to 20 and 25 respectively. This is mostly due to khoras whipclaw being 25cc and 20sc. This alone would be a massive buff for him.

Edited by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

If they make atlas's fists exaulted, they better change exalted to allow acolyte mods. 

I'm guessing because of Blood Rush, Body Count, and Weeping Wounds? I will admit, I didn't consider those mods in the revisit, but I'm not sure if it would change anything. Because I am keeping the aspect of Landslide and equipped Melees keeping the same Combo Counter, so I'm not sure if that would carry over if that Melee had one of those mods equipped with the pseudo-Exalted aspect of it.

3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Personally i would just like a base crit and status chance buff to 20 and 25 respectively. This is mostly due to khoras whipclaw being 25cc and 20sc. This alone would be a massive buff for him.

I'm not experienced with Khora, nor modding for her Whipclaw, but doesn't she already have full access of status through it? Correct me if I'm wrong. Reason why I bring that up, is that I see Landslide a bit differently from that ability, since Atlas does gain specific benefits that Khora doesn't and vice versa. And the factors of the Melee Combo Counter are different for Whipclaw as well, as apparently it gains 1/4 of the current bonus, which I'm not sure if that's weaker than Atlas's +25% damage increase per multiplier; since Khora can gain up to 3.0x damage, where Atlas can get up to 3.75x damage (not factoring Venka Prime). Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm trying to say is that, I think that 15% for each is fine, but I guess I wouldn't mind 20% crit and 25% status to an extent.

Edited by Scruffel

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11 hours ago, Scruffel said:

I'm guessing because of Blood Rush, Body Count, and Weeping Wounds? I will admit, I didn't consider those mods in the revisit, but I'm not sure if it would change anything. Because I am keeping the aspect of Landslide and equipped Melees keeping the same Combo Counter, so I'm not sure if that would carry over if that Melee had one of those mods equipped with the pseudo-Exalted aspect of it.

I'm not experienced with Khora, nor modding for her Whipclaw, but doesn't she already have full access of status through it? Correct me if I'm wrong. Reason why I bring that up, is that I see Landslide a bit differently from that ability, since Atlas does gain specific benefits that Khora doesn't and vice versa. And the factors of the Melee Combo Counter are different for Whipclaw as well, as apparently it gains 1/4 of the current bonus, which I'm not sure if that's weaker than Atlas's +25% damage increase per multiplier; since Khora can gain up to 3.0x damage, where Atlas can get up to 3.75x damage (not factoring Venka Prime). Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm trying to say is that, I think that 15% for each is fine, but I guess I wouldn't mind 20% crit and 25% status to an extent.

I mention whipclaw because it also has a need for stat stick but unlike landslide has a high enough base crit and status th at it hits red crits with just blood rush as well as 100% status. It can two shot lvl 160 Cheavys at max combo counter.

A similar build on atlas produces less than a fifth of this power. Its why i suggest such a high base CC and SC.. specifically being more status focused than whip claw so that whipclaw has 25cc and landslide had 25 sc. This would make them equal but differant, both haing a 25 and a 20.

I know you are trying to be conservative with 15%, but whipclaw does set a precedent with its CC and SC. I would rather go all in and go straight for equality.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I mention whipclaw because it also has a need for stat stick but unlike landslide has a high enough base crit and status th at it hits red crits with just blood rush as well as 100% status. It can two shot lvl 160 Cheavys at max combo counter.

A similar build on atlas produces less than a fifth of this power. Its why i suggest such a high base CC and SC.. specifically being more status focused than whip claw so that whipclaw has 25cc and landslide had 25 sc. This would make them equal but differant, both haing a 25 and a 20.

I know you are trying to be conservative with 15%, but whipclaw does set a precedent with its CC and SC. I would rather go all in and go straight for equality.

While I do consider your reasoning for making both have similar stats, I'm not really convinced of it being necessary. I try to consider a lot when it comes to adjusting the stats and functions of abilities, but I mainly focus on Atlas, not so much on the ideas of other Warframes. And while I could have taken some notes of Khora (as she does also have an Exalted), they have a significant amount of differences that pulls me away from simply copying the same ideas onto each other. Not saying I won't change my mind nor could consider it later, its just not on the cards for me. Thank you for the thoughts however.

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