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(PS4)sister-hawk

Lich system is still too grindy

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Between grinding for the relics, grinding for traces if you want the best chance at requiems or accepting a longer grind on requiems without refining, grinding for the weapon you want, grinding for several hours for murmurs, and sometimes even grinding just because the damn lich won't show up! At the very least, one of the links in this chain needs to be removed.

Personally, I like the requiem mods as a concept. I like the idea of having to figure out a kill-phrase to be able to permanently vanquish a lich. What I don't like is basically brute forcing my way into a combination lock. The fact that the requiems get used up and broken and need to be re-acquired just makes it that much worse. I would suggest that requiems either be made non-disposable, or their acquisition method be far more deterministic. Putting them in relics was really not a great idea, but realistically I know that's not likely to change at this point (maybe a few years down the line when we finally get the Lich system we all wanted). Maybe just introduce new relics with the Requiems in the common spot. That would at least be better than what we currently have.

The weapon grind is also pretty pointlessly long, and every time you add new Kuva weapons it will just get worse. I'm glad we can at least see what weapon a larvling will end up with, but the steak is more fat than meat at this point. I'm not sure what could be done here, but there is absolutely no reason for this part of the grind to be this bad.

And finally, the murmur grind sucks. It just does. It sucks because it's boring and repetitive. I could live with the time investment if the process of earning murmurs was actually interesting. But as it stands now, just running a bunch of generic star chart missions over and over for upwards of 4 or 5 hours? That blows. If the acquisition method isn't going to change any time soon, the time investment needs to be heavily reduced.

I want to express one more thought here. I know the original lich gameplay loop was supposed to be something like 70+ days, and the dev team figured players didn't want to wait two and a half months for their rewards, so the process was "dramatically shortened." And while it is true we don't want to wait quite that long for rewards, I think you would find that many players would be quite happy waiting even as much as a week, as long as the reward is actually worth it. If I had to wait a week, all the while being pestered and attacked by my lich while I tried to figure out his kill-phrase (and I mean actually figuring it out, not just trying a bunch of combinations until something works), but my final reward was a 60% toxin Kuva Quartakk and an ephemera, I would have no complaints. The choice to make the grind doable in an day, but be a boring, repetitive slog chock-full of RNG was a terrible one. Players will invest their time and money into this game if you make it fun and appealing. Making it boring and miserable to play only serves to drive us away.

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+1

And add lich to main game, tie it all together.  This can be done by lich sending death squads of thralls and occasionally actually hunt you like stalker.  

Then we can work on regular things and still make murmor progress.  

Lich are island content.

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You missed off the forced 5 forma if you want the full xp from the weapon....even if you don't like it and see it as mr fodder...

Hell they could have used these 5 forma as the way to increase the buff but nope, that has to be more grinding for the weapon again via more of the exact same grindy process....

In all honesty I see liches as an addition by dev's who have no way to give long term re-playable content without resorting to massive grind fests and that really isn't good if you think about the game long term... the liches aren't even that fun to do (incredibly repetitive, even down to the voice over lines) and considering how long DE technically spent on them that's not exactly good when you think about it.

I've actually stopped bothering with liches ages ago, I've got one active sitting there moaning at me from time to time and taking minimal amounts of loot but I just can't actually be bothered to kill it because of the grind and the fact it's so boring to do...

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41 минуту назад, (PS4)sister-hawk сказал:

Between grinding for the relics, grinding for traces if you want the best chance at requiems or accepting a longer grind on requiems without refining, grinding for the weapon you want, grinding for several hours for murmurs, and sometimes even grinding just because the damn lich won't show up! At the very least, one of the links in this chain needs to be removed.

well i'm not a big fan of liches and how they work, however, most of grind is connected to other activities in the game. relics farming is tied to kuva floods, you also get relics from thralls. It's really not an issue. I also see little point in refining relics. Never did that, however i still have a lot of requiem mods left so i tend to give them away when some players wanna buy some of them or trade one for another. I mean, my grind is over, hopefully, so if i can help other player to end theirs i will help these players.

Murmurs, average time for me to kill a lich and get their weapon is around 2 hours playing Mag. As it now, we can chose to spawn a lich or not, but even then it took 2 hours of slaughtering grineer to actually acquire that last weapon i was missing, in the old system i would rather abandon the idea of getting these weapons or it will cause a major case of burn out for me for a year or so. As it now things are easier.

However, i see two major issues. First is the amount of forma and time in order to craft those to bring a weapon to rank 40. This is simply a bad system. The second issue is how we acquire knowledge of the right combination, that system also need a re-work.

I agree that Methanoid though, it's meant to be grindy, it's sad but true. I doubt that any part of the chain requires a removal, however, it requires a rework, as many other parts of the game though.

I also really hope that resurrection protocol (or whatever it's called) is not just another lich grind corpus style, that would be a huge disappointment.

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Why would you ever waste void traces on those relics unless you completely new to the lich system?

As a longlasting system it is currently pretty spot on since the system is quite self sufficient once you have obtained 1 of each mod. After that you will get more mods than you'll ever need simply by cracking some relics from time to time in kuva survival/disruption fissures when grinding for kuva. Currently without grinding for mods outside of the very first one I'm sitting at something like 30+ runs worth of mod charges per mod type. I simply just pick mods as fissure rewards when there is no kuva to pick or when I have my 10 slivers for the week. Exilus Adapter BP is always ignored by me, since I can pick it up passively from syndicates anyways if needed.

The murmur grind I agree with being slightly boring, but in the end it is still fairly fast to advance with the system thanks to how the fusion works currently. It is very quick and easy to max out weapons now. I prefer doing liches solo even with the murmur bonus of 10x on others kills. You gain as much when running solo since you can do the mission while your lich is standing there farting out thralls. It is also quicker to unlock more planets solo, since if a lich spawns it will be your lich. That means you have more quick missions to access since more planets will be influenced by the lich.

The only thing I dont really enjoy with the lich system is the forma consumption on leveling lich weapons.

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I think the kuva weapons grind is in a balanced state, with the exception of the 5 formas to get full mastery points from them.

Getting Requiem mods is easy.

You just need to run a bunch of kuva siphons and flood once (2~3 rotations of siphons is enough, if you hit recruit chat later). By the time you kill your lich, you'll get loads of requiem relics, so running kuva siphons and floods will be no more.

When I started the grind, it took me less than 2h to get one requiem mod of each. Also, requiem relics have different rates than regular relics, so you don't need to worry about making them radiant, tho it helps a bit.

Then, comes the murmur grind. It's pretty chill. Just jump into missions and kill everything that moves for 2~3 hours. Standard Warframe gameplay.

Requiem mods losing a charge only if a lich dies is great. In a worst case scenario, you'll need to get new requiem mods after 3 lichs. On a regular scenario, you'll kill 5 lichs or so before having to get new requiem mods (and it will probably be just 1 mod, maybe a couple others that have 1 charge left).

You can pick the weapon your lich will have. No dupes anymore, unless you want it or you mess up.

Lich spawn chance increases over time, so your lich will always spawn at some point.

And, finally, kuva weapons are worth it. They are great powerful weapons worth putting your time into the game, unlike some trash weapons hidden behind a grind wall, just for the sake of it (looking at you Hema and Sibear).

The only people to whom this system might be grindy are casual players and players that are trying to get the ephemera/high % bonus weapons, instead of just buying it from other players.

The former will probably be appeased in the future, it's the norm.

The latter can just buy the exact thing they want from other players.

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The system is simply boring, grindy and taking long, the rest tho works, once you have a lich you get pletny of relics from the thralls randomyl already, so kuva missions are not even needed anymore and it happens nearby at least. The rest is jsut as said, boring, doing the same thing over and over again on top of the weapon froma and grind for the one you want and or emphera.

I thought they learned of Riven RNG but sadly, numbers are all that count today, may it be likes on facebook or youtube or playtime of a game players are in, if they actually play and have fun tho is another story. But big numbers keep the investors happy right?

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Ya’ll keep saying getting the requiems is no big deal, until you  use up what you have and have to go back out and farm them. Sure, I have a huge stockpile of requiem relics too. And no, I don’t waste traces on refining them. That doesn’t mean it’s not still a huge pain in the ass to have to go out and rely on RNG to give you what you need to deal with your lich.

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The real problem is the reward, which is usually a weapon with a bonus below 30%, certainly not enough for all we have to do.

The conversion is simply useless.

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