Spoiler: no one plays Warframe to play pvp or rocket league

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

4 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I'll say it again...Rip out conclave and all the other micro slivers from the pie-chart and give PVP assets and a UI similar to Halo Forge World

"Make Conclave into Halo"
Almost all of your posts in this subforum are about turning Conclave into halo. Why is that?

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

1 minute ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

"Make Conclave into Halo"
Almost all of your posts in this subforum are about turning Conclave into halo. Why is that?

maybe he should just go play halo 

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

"Make Conclave into Halo"
Almost all of your posts in this subforum are about turning Conclave into halo. Why is that?

_{FWIW I do like the idea of being able to design our own maps and modes and stuff...}

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

5 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

"Make Conclave into Halo"
Almost all of your posts in this subforum are about turning Conclave into halo. Why is that?

Simply because Halo's Forge and its UI system is the easiest to explain the concept of a interface for the community to input designated locations for spawns, events, and conditions to effect the match since most PVP players have played Halo in some capacity from 2001 and up...

 

Also the Dojo's decoration mode is very similar to it and works on the same concept, only you would be able to say drop a wall here at this time during the match to change the flow or say adjust speeds of players or gravity giving rise to many forms of differing matches...

 

[Sylonus]

Just for what it's worth, the concept of object permanence is the realization that anything that is out of their current perception still exists. One without such  wouldn't ask for the removal of conclave, as they would not realize it exists if they weren't currently interacting with it.

Also there are perfectly logical reasons to potentially support removal over leaving it in, essentially if leaving it in requires a significant amount of development resources that could be spent devoted to projects that would benefit more people, and the game itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case, I have no proof of such, I'm just saying, that this stance is not necessarily an unreasonable position.

Though as to whether Warframe would be any "healthier" as a whole if a great deal more of dev time had been spent on our PVP systems as you imply, statistically, I find this extremely hard to believe.

[Sevek7]

2 hours ago, Sylonus said:

Just for what it's worth, the concept of object permanence is the realization that anything that is out of their current perception still exists. One without such  wouldn't ask for the removal of conclave, as they would not realize it exists if they weren't currently interacting with it.

Also there are perfectly logical reasons to potentially support removal over leaving it in, essentially if leaving it in requires a significant amount of development resources that could be spent devoted to projects that would benefit more people, and the game itself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case, I have no proof of such, I'm just saying, that this stance is not necessarily an unreasonable position.

Though as to whether Warframe would be any "healthier" as a whole if a great deal more of dev time had been spent on our PVP systems as you imply, statistically, I find this extremely hard to believe.

Good point! Object permanence was the wrong analogy to use 😉

I agree, if PvP required a huge amount of dev time then it wouldn't be worth it. But it doesn't require a huge amount, it just requires a bare minimum.

As an example: the recent mainline added shield gating to the game, which snuck into conclave with no balance pass whatsoever. They promptly fixed this sneaked shield gating problem by removing it … in happy zephyr. I think it's not unreasonable to ask for conclave to get as much attention as happy zephyr. 

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

2 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Good point! Object permanence was the wrong analogy to use 😉

I agree, if PvP required a huge amount of dev time then it wouldn't be worth it. But it doesn't require a huge amount, it just requires a bare minimum.

As an example: the recent mainline added shield gating to the game, which snuck into conclave with no balance pass whatsoever. They promptly fixed this sneaked shield gating problem by removing it … in happy zephyr. I think it's not unreasonable to ask for conclave to get as much attention as happy zephyr. 

its currently getting less than that which is causing these issues where people dont like the mode in the first place. if the conclave dev team (yes there was one before plains of eidolon) actually came back and started balancing the mode we wouldn't have these current issues persisting plus a more active player base even though thats not an issue on ps4 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

10 hours ago, Sylonus said:

Also there are perfectly logical reasons to potentially support removal over leaving it in, essentially if leaving it in requires a significant amount of development resources that could be spent devoted to projects that would benefit more people, and the game itself.

And what, pray tell, development resources is Conclave receiving?

[Okami_Amaterasu]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

And what, pray tell, development resources is Conclave receiving?

It got like, 1 update recently! Imagine all the effort it must've taken to remove bramma from conclave.

[Sylonus]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

And what, pray tell, development resources is Conclave receiving?

As I said in my post, I'm not sure how much it's receiving, but as a coder, I realize it's also potentially far more than someone on the outside might expect, just to maintain a thing and keep it playable, even if it's not improved and even minor to moderate issues not being fixed, though I have no idea if it is the case in this instance, but neither do you.

[-BG-StormFighter117]

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

I realize it's also potentially far more than someone on the outside might expect, just to maintain a thing and keep it playable

You think Conclave is even playable? Devs don't update it....

DE only has 1-2 guys working on it. To add, they're only permitted to work on it during their spare time (which is none) and unpaid (They deserve a god bless)

 

In the case of adding a new weapon, it's a simply copy paste, enter multiplier value, adjust value later because it's broken af. Pretty much how it is.

[Sevek7]

22 hours ago, Sylonus said:

As I said in my post, I'm not sure how much it's receiving, but as a coder, I realize it's also potentially far more than someone on the outside might expect, just to maintain a thing and keep it playable, even if it's not improved and even minor to moderate issues not being fixed, though I have no idea if it is the case in this instance, but neither do you.

You make good points in principle. However, they simply don't apply to this situation. Some of the code behind conclave has been shared with players. Simple example is weapons in conclave have a couple extra lines of code. One that says something like "AllowInPvp = 1" (I don't remember the exact syntax, others will know) Where 1 means it's enabled for conclave and 0 means it's not. Similarly, attacks have a multiplier based on their PvE damage.

In October, melee 3.0 came out which included a gigantic spike in the multiplier to slide damage on dual swords. The coding fix was extremely simple, take the "SlideDamageMultiplier = 999" and bring it back down to the same level as the other weapons. The devs were made aware of this problem due to a huge influx of forum posts here, and the fix would have taken less than 5 minutes (just editing the number for the dual sword weapons). Do you want to guess how long this 5 minute fix took? It took 5 months.

So, when it comes to warframe's PvP, we do know how much time it takes to maintain conclave. It's extremely small. 

Another example is the one I brought up earlier. Shield gating was added to the game and then removed from happy zephyr within what? a week? Obviously happy zephyr is not a large part of the game, but yet they were able to spare however long it took to fix it (I'm guessing the time required was again minimal.)

I really don't think the conclave community is asking for a lot here.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-03-27 at 1:28 AM, Sylonus said:

I'm not sure how much it's receiving

It is receiving a truly minimal amount of support. All it would take is changing a flag that says "EnabledInPvP:True" and changing some modifiers. The issues that affect Conclave come out of dev negligence and not any issues that are inherent with the mode. It is a truly unique situation. 

 

On 2020-03-27 at 1:28 AM, Sylonus said:

neither do you.

Yes, we do. We have played it for years, we have seen the stats and code for many things in Conclave with our dedicated servers. We know a great deal about the situation but we also know that it is not in our hands to fix it. It is like a mother seeing her child undergo surgery and knowing there is nothing she can do to save the child. But instead of saving the child, the doctor just leaves him cut open on the operating table for years.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Just have the universal medalions be a thing and be fairly easy to get.  Problem solved.  Everyone can get the conclave rep for the goodies without actually pvping.

The mode is not that widely played atm.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

epic post

Literally hundreds of people play it. More people play Conclave than archwing or defection missions. Should we remove those too?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Literally hundreds of people play it. More people play Conclave than archwing or defection missions. Should we remove those too?

I don't see people playing conclave in my experience over the years. I'm sure theres some. But lets be real.  De has left conclave to rot and the solar rails will never return. 

Archwing is a key component of railjack.  So both systems will continue to be a big focus of de. 

Defections are pretty few. They are not really comparable to the aboved mentioned or important to the discussion at hand.

De removed raids because they where not popular.  De is pretty openly not interested in warframe pvp.  Folks are wasting their breathe. 

Don't expect de to work on conclave. You begging developers who are buisy on their pve content.

If you enjoy what is present then do as you please.  It's not my business how spend your time.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Defections are pretty few. They are not really comparable to the aboved mentioned or important to the discussion at hand

How are they not comparable?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

How are they not comparable?

There are not many of them. Its not important to do them. They are not a system linked to something else.  Like how archwings are linked to railjack and archwings are going to recieve massive overhauls.

De doesn't spend time talking about defections, conclave, solar rails, or raids now do they.

The focus is on what? The new war, railjack, archwing overhauls, nightwave, the new events, protia, new deluxe skins, kuva liches, duviri paradox, etc.

Notice its all the pve content.  De doesn't care about pvp.

[standardheadache]

Conclave is always the first thing that brings me back and the last thing I stop playing in Warframe because it has the most community tied to it for me. As the leader of a dead clan, there's nobody to really play with, and alliances aren't interested in taking in a group with a pretty dojo and no players. Meanwhile, the recently DE-endorsed Conclave community Discord has over three thousand members, a glyph, and friendly, competitive players that talk about mechanics beyond the surface level. It has a real grassroots feel to it. And with Parkour 2.0 being one of the most defining features of the game, isn't it only fitting that its PvP mode take something that has no tangible value on paper and makes it into the main confound on dps?

Of course, this problem isn't unique to Warframe. MMO PvP is always poorly received by its player base, but I've never seen it quite so neglected as with Conclave. This might be because the devs try their best to listen to the players, and the most vocal people are the ones who revile Conclave.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 2020-03-19 at 11:31 AM, Signs said:

Don't @ me

tl;dr put the cosmetics somewhere else or give us some syndicate missions for conclaive so I don't have to wait an hour to match up with someone. I don't even mind playing except I can't play half of the time because no one actually plays

@Signs

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 2020-03-26 at 4:48 PM, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

its currently getting less than that which is causing these issues where people dont like the mode in the first place. if the conclave dev team (yes there was one before plains of eidolon) actually came back and started balancing the mode we wouldn't have these current issues persisting plus a more active player base even though thats not an issue on ps4 

I remember you, you still using snipers ? Lol

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

I remember you, you still using snipers ? Lol

Back to opticor now. They've become stupidly easy

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Back to opticor now. They've become stupidly easy

Bet you wish you were in charge of PVP. Seeing how passionate you are about it . I really do believe it has potential just sucks DE doesn’t. 

[Tokens210]

everyone here thinking DE just doesn't care is silly, yous should be thankful its not still just starter frames and mk weapons only or whatever it used to be, before they actually started working on it atleast some

this exact topic comes up every so often and it has the same results

this game is PVE, literally every single aspect of the game is based around PVE, except conclave

the vast majority of players like myself play the game for PVE Only, even if i heard conclave was amazing i wouldn''t play it, wouldn''t even try it

now thats not to say that me and people like myself dont wish for conclave to be good or better for players who like it, cause atleast i personally do

 

problem comes from player count and traffic, DE has stated before on streams ive seen that while alot of ppl play conclave its only a small percent of the bigger whole and atleast currently they most likely dont have the funds to flat out hire a whole team for just conclave, nor does that game type have enough backing for it, when compared to the rest of the game, so conclave ends up exactly where it is right now, having slow drip of updates or fixes every so often but not really getting love

 

In recent years it seems DE got to caught up in the hype and flood of players adding open world gave them, but if you noticed thats also broken, players can enter cetus or vob with frames and weapons that you can do nothing with against those enemies, why cause DE wanted to show off the work (and in this aspect i dont blame them both worlds are beautiful) and if the open world was bringing flocks of new ppl they didnt want them ppl to find out it was immediately behind a grind wall, which it should have been

 

i mean if you first remember when cetus was released we had a giant issue with the fact players could enter cetus before being able to get an archwing, and archwing launchers actually had charges, you needed cetus resources to craft them at 25 or 50 at a time or something, which lead to older player needing to either drop archwings for the new players, which i believe actually got blocked by DE cause when you used to call in an archwing in cetus it would land next to you and when you ran over to it you would jump into it, but other players could also do it, ie take your archwing making you need to use another charge for 1 or you could give a lower player one, or what happened more often, players left if you didnt have one making it very hard to find a group for anything for newer ppl

[standardheadache]

On 2020-05-17 at 1:37 PM, Tokens210 said:

roblem comes from player count and traffic, DE has stated before on streams ive seen that while alot of ppl play conclave its only a small percent of the bigger whole and atleast currently they most likely dont have the funds to flat out hire a whole team for just conclave, nor does that game type have enough backing for it, when compared to the rest of the game, so conclave ends up exactly where it is right now, having slow drip of updates or fixes every so often but not really getting love

The highest count for the Conclave team was two people, part-time, while also filling other roles. They just got shifted to those other roles full-time as of Plains of Eidolon.