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well.. i just played destiny 2..


Agnostus
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wow... this thread is the equivalent of sending your girlfriend a long message before going to bed and waking up to find 34 A4-page-long messages back! I guess its a good thing, ive sat for about 20 mins now reading all your replies while drinking my coffee, i must admit im comming out much more optimistic about WF and if veterans are saying that D2 is also experiencing a content drought then that might actually be the case. I believe what im missing most, after reading all this, in WF is proper Boss battles with proper rewards..

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9 hours ago, ty91 said:

I mean in a way where new players can jump into the fray of things without having to jump through all the hurdles that are in the beginning of warframe. As the game stands now a new solo player can never catch up to someone who started the game before them. Also with you point isn't it already worthless to play in a lower level area?

All those hurdles are things that make the path of progression or you prefer to see MR 1 suddenly running sortie with you?

Worthless? I can kill earth enemies without having to struggle at all in Warframe when all of your efforts in destiny to make your power level higher goes down the drain the moment you visit lower level area because the game lowers your power to make sure you're not stronger than any newbies in edz

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32 minutes ago, 844448 said:

All those hurdles are things that make the path of progression or you prefer to see MR 1 suddenly running sortie with you?

Worthless? I can kill earth enemies without having to struggle at all in Warframe when all of your efforts in destiny to make your power level higher goes down the drain the moment you visit lower level area because the game lowers your power to make sure you're not stronger than any newbies in edz

Well duh, imagine a doing a public event and then som max level guy comes in and kills the boss in 2 seconds 

Sounds totally fun for everyone else doesn't it. 

Also your are still stronger than newbies but only to a certain externt. It's a public area where everyone at any level can join so no S#&$ it's scaling u down 

Edited by akrid45
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I know exactly how you feel. Its wasn't Destiny 2 specifically for me, but whenever I take a break from Warframe and go play something else, I always end up liking Warframe less when I come back. Because every other game I play does things better than Warframe, it just makes it seem that much worse in comparison.

10 hours ago, Lion said:

Not to really counter any of your points, I think most are fair observations. However I'm not sure that the comparison of Destiny to Warframe is really a fair one. People seem to forget that Warframe was and remains to be an independent game that had no major game publishers backing it up. You really need to look at the logistics of everything when comparing the two.

 

Destiny as a series on the other hand, in the same span of years as Warframe, has had over 500 million invested in it by major publisher Activision, on top of having 2 full priced games that sold ridiculously well. Not to mention they have name brand recognition in the name of Bungie and Activision. Warframe is backed by a small studio (and admittedly a chinese chicken company which has nowhere near the financial power of the aforementioned companies), in short, Warframe's small team (roughly 300 employees versus Bungie's 600+) coupled with the revenue (reportedly less than half of what Destiny 2 made in 2019) just can't compete with that, and it shows.

 

tl;dr

Warframe compared to Bungie has:

-half the team

-half the money

-half the name brand

It can only be expected that it falls short compared to another studio that started off much better than DE did.

Its not about the resources you have, but what you do with them. The fact that there are plenty of tiny, sometimes single person dev teams out there that can make more entertaining games than DE can proves this. DUSK is one of the main games that makes Warframe look so bad to me, and it was basically made by one person. 300 versus 600 doesn't matter when one outshines them all.

If anything, in my experience having a larger team and budget means that the game will most likely turn out worse. Bigger teams can't afford to take as many risks as smaller ones, so they have to go the safe and boring route. They end up making their game more generic so it has a wider audience, because they need to repay the massive debts their investors are holding over them. That's why, at its core, Destiny is really just repainted Halo, but Warframe is mostly original. Destiny needed the guarantee of that preexisting audience, while DE was free to do whatever they wanted with Warframe, because they aren't desperately trying to outrun the hungry investors nipping at their heels.

10 hours ago, Voltage said:

How many hours have you put into Warframe and Destiny respectively? I ask because new games are always pretty fresh and fun when you start. I have 6300+ hours in Warframe. Destiny 2 might be really fun when I start, but will I still be praising it at 6300 Destiny hours? Maybe. Maybe not. Both games have different development cycles, and I would say Bungie is vastly different than DE. I feel like it's apples to oranges. For example, the massive presence PvP has in Destiny 2.

Total time played doesn't mean much by itself in terms of game quality. Sure you played Warframe for thousands more hours than Destiny, but did you enjoy every single one of those hours? I'll bet not. I know I really only enjoyed far less than the 2,000+ hours I have played of Warframe. The rest was all the irritating busywork that you always have to do in this game before you get to the fun stuff. That is one thing I like much more about Destiny than Warframe, they put all the best stuff first. That's the main reason I haven't played nearly as much Destiny as I have Warframe, because I didn't need to to get to the fun parts. But, it also means my enjoyment time to total time ratio is much higher with that game.

I would much rather play a game that only last for a few hours but is super fun the entire time, than a game that lasts forever but is only occasionally fun. And Warframe is definitely in the second category. So is Destiny, but it isn't nearly as deep as Warframe.

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1 minute ago, Teljaxx said:

I know exactly how you feel. Its wasn't Destiny 2 specifically for me, but whenever I take a break from Warframe and go play something else, I always end up liking Warframe less when I come back. Because every other game I play does things better than Warframe, it just makes it seem that much worse in comparison.

Its not about the resources you have, but what you do with them. The fact that there are plenty of tiny, sometimes single person dev teams out there that can make more entertaining games than DE can proves this. DUSK is one of the main games that makes Warframe look so bad to me, and it was basically made by one person. 300 versus 600 doesn't matter when one outshines them all.

If anything, in my experience having a larger team and budget means that the game will most likely turn out worse. Bigger teams can't afford to take as many risks as smaller ones, so they have to go the safe and boring route. They end up making their game more generic so it has a wider audience, because they need to repay the massive debts their investors are holding over them. That's why, at its core, Destiny is really just repainted Halo, but Warframe is mostly original. Destiny needed the guarantee of that preexisting audience, while DE was free to do whatever they wanted with Warframe, because they aren't desperately trying to outrun the hungry investors nipping at their heels.

Total time played doesn't mean much by itself in terms of game quality. Sure you played Warframe for thousands more hours than Destiny, but did you enjoy every single one of those hours? I'll bet not. I know I really only enjoyed far less than the 2,000+ hours I have played of Warframe. The rest was all the irritating busywork that you always have to do in this game before you get to the fun stuff. That is one thing I like much more about Destiny than Warframe, they put all the best stuff first. That's the main reason I haven't played nearly as much Destiny as I have Warframe, because I didn't need to to get to the fun parts. But, it also means my enjoyment time to total time ratio is much higher with that game.

I would much rather play a game that only last for a few hours but is super fun the entire time, than a game that lasts forever but is only occasionally fun. And Warframe is definitely in the second category. So is Destiny, but it isn't nearly as deep as Warframe.

Never played dusk but just from a glimpse, it looks decent enough, good but a bit simplistic mechanically compared to warframe.

I don't think you have to play warframe only, in fact I don't think anyone wholeheartedly does. I'll branch off and play other games (cyberpunk is looking juicy) but at the end of the day those games are just mistresses, for me warframe will be my maiden for the foreseeable future.

 

Different strokes for different folks. I've put in almost 4000 hours on warframe between PC and PS4 and I don't regret any of it.

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27 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

DUSK is one of the main games that makes Warframe look so bad to me, and it was basically made by one person.

You’ve made some interesting points and observations in your post.

DUSK looks really different to Warframe.

Out of curiosity and to understand more clearly where you’re coming from, what are you comparing between the two?

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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19 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Total time played doesn't mean much by itself in terms of game quality. Sure you played Warframe for thousands more hours than Destiny, but did you enjoy every single one of those hours? I'll bet not. I know I really only enjoyed far less than the 2,000+ hours I have played of Warframe. The rest was all the irritating busywork that you always have to do in this game before you get to the fun stuff. That is one thing I like much more about Destiny than Warframe, they put all the best stuff first. That's the main reason I haven't played nearly as much Destiny as I have Warframe, because I didn't need to to get to the fun parts. But, it also means my enjoyment time to total time ratio is much higher with that game.

I would much rather play a game that only last for a few hours but is super fun the entire time, than a game that lasts forever but is only occasionally fun. And Warframe is definitely in the second category. So is Destiny, but it isn't nearly as deep as Warframe.

Maybe you misinterpreted me given what you wrote is almost exactly what I said. Total time invested certainly matters. When you first started Warframe, something about it was amazing to you (given you stated you have 2,000 hours), and that's great! However, the same effect can come into play when starting any new game because it is fresh and shiny. You might have overwhelming bias for a new game because it is new and exciting, and you have alot of content to burn through. However, you could or could not enjoy the game past 500, 1000, or 6000 hours.

How many years and hours you've put into a game most certainly reflects your opinion on the quality of the game.

Edited by Voltage
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When I started wf the first couple of months I had overwhelming quantity and quality of things to do.
It took me about a year to get to the point that I can say "I can do anything in the game, while dozing off".
Before that everything was interesting, new and "hard".
"Hard" because I simply lacked some mods and recourses to level them.
So it brought me some challenge, a couple of big events and small ones and a lot of fun for about a year from the point I started until now.

I'm not trying to defend the lack of content after that, my question is - do destiny get to that point after roughly the same time?

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Just now, vegetosayajin said:

When I started wf the first couple of months I had overwhelming quantity and quality of things to do.
It took me about a year to get to the point that I can say "I can do anything in the game, while dozing off".
Before that everything was interesting, new and "hard".
"Hard" because I simply lacked some mods and recourses to level them.
So it brought me some challenge, a couple of big events and small ones and a lot of fun for about a year from the point I started until now.

I'm not trying to defend the lack of content after that, my question is - do destiny get to that point after roughly the same time?

I mean a year is a long time. I do the same thing in destiny when running a strike or yet another leviathan run, can pretty much do it with a half decent fireteam while watching Netflix.

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12 hours ago, Agnostus said:

First off, i must admit, WF has ruined movement in every other game for me. The fluidity of movement in WF is just unmatched, truly.

Now, on to the bad things. I cant help myself but be so disappointed by how much WF is lacking in comparison to Destiny 2. I accidentally started out by running dungeons (the equivalent of that in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! There is a HUGE amount of original content in the game comparable more to an mmo (and probably a well polished one) than a shooter.

Then i continued to the "main quest line" and the open world... Just amazed. So many different things happening all at once, people running around, public events, quests and side quests all happening at the same time.

The game features PvP and PvPvE but honestly im not even comparing this because i believe PvP is hard to implement in WF.

What strikes me though as such an unfair deal we're getting with WF is the true lack of content. Every 3 months DE offers a 45-125 euro pack for 5 cosmetic items (accessories and a prime wf thats basically the same wf with a bit of an upgrade in stats and better looks). Truly disappointing. 

DE will say that they want to keep all real content free. I respect that to some extend but there could be a compromise. Make the frame obtainable in game, but the cosmetics obtainable through a quest that you gotta pay real money (or plat maybe?) to unlock. This will make people that do enjoy the game probably more keen on actually buying the packs. Or actually create some original content, raids, dungeons, timed events that need something more than plain zombie-mode grinding, PvEvP, anything for crying out loud! 

Liches are a lovely addition as a concept, yet just a more spongy enemy to put bullets in. Empyrian, albeit a new game mode, yet with a lackluster execution. Fortuna, copy of PoE with snow. The best actual content WF offered were Eidolons! An amazing boss fight, with skill, team effort and gear required to complete within a time frame to get the maximum loot! And that was 3 years ago!

I believe all my words are a lost cause, DE had 7 years now to provide us with actual content and they never did, it just pains me to see a game that ive spent more than 2k hours in, just stay stagnant and not achieve its full potential even after all those years.

Those were my 50 cents. Thank you for reading this far.

Wait till u grind your ass off for top teir weapons only to have them nerf because they are too OP in some other game mode. But I will hand it to bungie: they have a way better website/companion app.

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)Peaches Pan Tao said:

Wait till u grind your ass off for top teir weapons only to have them nerf because they are too OP in some other game mode. But I will hand it to bungie: they have a way better website/companion app.

So exactly like arcanes then but without the other gamemode? 😅

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17 minutes ago, Lion said:

I mean a year is a long time.

When you have a daytime job, some social interactions and want to max everything, get all the frames and most of weapons and have about 2-4 hours a day to do it...
Maybe someone else can do it faster but I doubt it will be less than 3-4 months at minimum even if you play for about 8 hours every day.(get every mod, frame, arcane, most weapons, max out most focus schools etc)

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb AdunSaveMe:

This isn't the Destiny 2 forum. Comparing the two completely different games is stupid.

I can't believe we're now well into 2020 and the Warframe community still hasn't dropped this.

People will always compare their favorite (or just current) game to other options.

Like, what does it make better. Or what does it make worse that makes me even happier with my favorite game. Such stuff.

And knowing that there is competition can be good for the development of a game. Otherwise devs think their game is beyond any doubt and everything goes downhill.

 

And with all the bugs... so... so... many bugs... Where was I? Oh, right, with all the bugs Warframe has it's still playable. Unlike Destiny 2 with its 'Blackscreen Bug', which made it unplayable for me.

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13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

First off, i must admit, WF has ruined movement in every other game for me. The fluidity of movement in WF is just unmatched, truly.

Now, on to the bad things. I cant help myself but be so disappointed by how much WF is lacking in comparison to Destiny 2. I accidentally started out by running dungeons (the equivalent of that in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! There is a HUGE amount of original content in the game comparable more to an mmo (and probably a well polished one) than a shooter.

Then i continued to the "main quest line" and the open world... Just amazed. So many different things happening all at once, people running around, public events, quests and side quests all happening at the same time.

The game features PvP and PvPvE but honestly im not even comparing this because i believe PvP is hard to implement in WF.

What strikes me though as such an unfair deal we're getting with WF is the true lack of content. Every 3 months DE offers a 45-125 euro pack for 5 cosmetic items (accessories and a prime wf thats basically the same wf with a bit of an upgrade in stats and better looks). Truly disappointing. 

DE will say that they want to keep all real content free. I respect that to some extend but there could be a compromise. Make the frame obtainable in game, but the cosmetics obtainable through a quest that you gotta pay real money (or plat maybe?) to unlock. This will make people that do enjoy the game probably more keen on actually buying the packs. Or actually create some original content, raids, dungeons, timed events that need something more than plain zombie-mode grinding, PvEvP, anything for crying out loud! 

Liches are a lovely addition as a concept, yet just a more spongy enemy to put bullets in. Empyrian, albeit a new game mode, yet with a lackluster execution. Fortuna, copy of PoE with snow. The best actual content WF offered were Eidolons! An amazing boss fight, with skill, team effort and gear required to complete within a time frame to get the maximum loot! And that was 3 years ago!

I believe all my words are a lost cause, DE had 7 years now to provide us with actual content and they never did, it just pains me to see a game that ive spent more than 2k hours in, just stay stagnant and not achieve its full potential even after all those years.

Those were my 50 cents. Thank you for reading this far.

Dont expect anything more from Destiny 2. You'll get zero content for free in that game. Everything outside the base game is B2P and it is all staggered releases throughout a season. The little free content you'll get are events. WF gives you everything essential i.e everything needed to play, 100% free. Cosmetics are optional and not content. You also seem to want something from WF that WF isnt. You compare Destiny 2, a looter shooter to WF a horde looter shooter. Two different sub genres within the shooter genre which in itself nowdays is a subgenre to arpgs. I'd be all for other things in WF, but it needs to keep the "horde" feeling.

I'm also not really sure how you see Fortuna as a copy of PoE. Sure they are both open regions, but they are far different from eachother in execution. PoE is all about bounties, Fortuna actually brings free roam a meaning, with an "MMO" type of grind option where specific regions/mobs drop specific loot that we need, while also having an ever increasing difficulty if you so please. Fortuna kinda reminds me of my DaoC or WoW days where I'd go to a specific place in the world to get a material or drop from a specific mob. PoE doesnt have anything near that feeling. Not to mention Fortuna has the best version of big bosses with the profit taker. A far better experience than eidolons since you dont need to experience the fight from 2 feet away only, you can actually move around and still damage it properly while not having everything in your face, covering the whole screen with a puke storm of pointless effects, limbs and other fluff S#&$.

Also, better save those 50 cents so you can buy the content needed to advance in Destiny 2, the "free" to play looter shooter from Bungie.

edit: Oh and also, wait till you need to start doing endgame in Destiny 2 and will be forced to use 3rd party options in order to get groups going since the game lacks any form of LFG tool.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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I played Destiny 2 and it was a slow monoton boring game. There are very few enemy types and very few mission types.

The game looks amazing and shooting is as good as It's always been in any Halo game but that's about it for me.

The expansions aren't even free yet ppl call Destiny a free to play game. It's much more Free to try than anything.

And by far I haven't heared about a single fully developed story either. Or just a story with a satisfying conclusion. As far as I can remember every expansion is just a teaser for a future expansion that is again just a teaser for another expansion.

And I'm willing to bet that you still can't costumize your character non what so ever. And you can't use a gun you like because of the S#&$ty rating or leveling system or whatever that is.

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Destiny franchise is imho obscene garbage. I'm baffled that a company put such emphasis on polish and graphics and produce such bad games. Warframe had a big emphasis on easthetics too but the end result of both games it not comparable. Warframe is imho way supperior despite working on probably lower budgets. I tryed destiny 2 recently and got extremly bored after 3 hours of gameplay and the worst part is that I think I've seen most of the game there, most of the bestiary, most of the "gameplay content" and everything is dull. Imho it is a terrible game. The 2012 version of WF is imho arguarbly better than the current state of Destiny 2.(at least way more fun).

I mean Destiny 2 is telegraphed/repetitive at levels I never though possible in a looter shooter. I went to a planet to do its campain(wich are basically all the same, move there kill x stuff listen to actually decently voiced lore, move there kill y stuff, etc...) and when doing so(it takes less than 45mn btw per planet doing their campain) I encountered 3 times the same event at the same spot and the maps are extremly small for a game that advertises open world, actually Fortuna is more packed of exotic stuffs than any planet of Destiny 2:D.

I tryed very quickly d2 raids(did the levihatan stuff), it is probably the only things they have done kind of right, it was extremly scripted tho. I understand why warframe doesn't have raid sadly.

On end note, there is a very low amount of solo/scripted content in Warframe. However, I'm maybe gonna look fanbody, but narration/quality wise I think it is definitely way above what you get in general in AAA games. The only thing I hope for warframe now is an upgrade in its technologies, it will require dedicated servers at a point, for raids but not only, honestly with cloud computing evolutions it is definitely doable and it can be premium content that I'd gladly pay for.

Edited by Galuf
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Maybe u can compare Indie game like Warframe to a AAA absolute game like Destiny 2.

But looking at the Steam statistics, Warframe is one of the indie games that have one of the most populated games on Steam, competing with most major games and top notch indie games alike... .

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

That's definitely something... .

And obvious, duh. 😂

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13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

First off, i must admit, WF has ruined movement in every other game for me. The fluidity of movement in WF is just unmatched, truly.

Now, on to the bad things. I cant help myself but be so disappointed by how much WF is lacking in comparison to Destiny 2. I accidentally started out by running dungeons (the equivalent of that in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! There is a HUGE amount of original content in the game comparable more to an mmo (and probably a well polished one) than a shooter.

Destiny Player (maybe like 400 or 500, i don't really remember) and warframe (1k hours) player here, i going to drop some pros and cons, because why not?. i'm going to put the pros first and i'm going to discard warframe pros and cons because i'm too lazy to write more and this is a warframe forum, everyone here can deduce based in this pros and cons down here. Btw, let's get started:

Pros:
- It has PVP.

- It has Raids (not the shadow legend)
- It has Gambit, fun mode, but kind of frustrating to play sometimes (I was really close to put gambit in the cons).
- No build times.
- It has this 'is more about connection than expansion' thing that Steve wants.
- Fashion is more customizable.
- The game design (Open Worlds and everything) is pretty neat. I really love it.
- Campaign is freaking amazing (Warframe can't compete again that).

Cons:

- PVE part from Destiny 2 is more repetitive than warframe PVE, at least is amazing when you start playing, public events drop table is useless, and at least 2 o 3 strikes gives something useful. 
- PVP is kind of unbalanced (Well, is kind of expected and at least it have PVP)
- Kind of slow-paced shooter.
- Without Forsaken is unplayable (At least isn't really expensive)
- When you get close to endgame, updates are really two months to get number changes and season pass every 3 months (at least isn't really expensive neither).
- 'You had to be there'
-  Matchmaking is a joke.
-  Ever-verse is a joke.
- Swords are a joke, busted and fun at the same time (kind of confusing)
- You spend more time dismantling blue weapons and going through loading screens that actual playing.

 

Extra:

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

Liches are a lovely addition as a concept, yet just a more spongy enemy to put bullets in.

Then you get Destiny's Champions that do the same, and don't get me started with the IA.

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

 Empyrian, albeit a new game mode, yet with a lackluster execution. Fortuna, copy of PoE with snow. The best actual content WF offered were Eidolons! An amazing boss fight, with skill, team effort and gear required to complete within a time frame to get the maximum loot! And that was 3 years ago!

You are right about Empyrean. Fortuna isn't kind of bad (Well, the grind is really awful i guess),

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

I believe all my words are a lost cause, DE had 7 years now to provide us with actual content and they never did

Again Destiny, yes. The content dropped by Destiny in this 7 years is amazing. 

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

it just pains me to see a game that ive spent more than 2k hours in, just stay stagnant and not achieve its full potential even after all those years.

Well, life sucks i guess?.
 

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15 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Been hanging around the Destiny community because... honestly the game fascinates me, even if I don't enjoy playing it anywhere near as much as Warframe. And to be frank? From what I've heard over by there, content is just as much of a problem. Yes, there's technically more of it, but they have the problem of 'all the content is the same' - lots and lots of horde modes and their version bounties (y'know nightwave? That's a good 50% of new D2 content of late from what I've heard) is what I've been hearing about, same in, same out. Say what you will about Warframe, they've been avoiding that problem as much as possible. Yeah, PoE to Fortuna had that problem and an argument could be made for reworks being 'the same' (but that's not really the same beast).

But Disruption? Totally different to other gamemodes. Same for Defection, for better or for worse which I believe was the previously most-recent new gamemode. Bounties at least are fairly different experientially to regular missions due to the randomised objectives. Eidolons to PT to Exploiter are all very different fights. Conservation, mining and fishing are all very different side activities. Kuva Lich hunting might take place on the same tilesets and in 'standard' mission formats, but it's pretty different to the content surrounding it. And of course, Empyrean. Complete paradigm shift in gameplay, despite lacking much of its own game modes at present.

And, most amusingly of all, there's this reddit thread which eerily mirrors the kind of thing you hear over by here

  Hide contents

 

 

It's a question of picking your poison. Do you want regular, polished, but ultimately repetitive and somewhat meaningless new content? or [DE]layed, rough but hugely ambitious new content? I prefer the latter, and prefer Warframe's overall gameplay, but that's me... and admittedly probably most people here. We are on the Warframe boards after all.

Maybe destiny 2 and warframe aren't as different as people make them out to be, reading that link you put there gave me a feeling of deja vu. The state of both games' communitys seem to be mirror images of each other, despite the fact the gameplay is VERY different between the 2 of them. 

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