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Agnostus

well.. i just played destiny 2..

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Maybe u can compare Indie game like Warframe to a AAA absolute game like Destiny 2.

But looking at the Steam statistics, Warframe is one of the indie games that have one of the most populated games on Steam, competing with most major games and top notch indie games alike... .

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

That's definitely something... .

And obvious, duh. ūüėā

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13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

First off, i must admit, WF has ruined movement in every other game for me. The fluidity of movement in WF is just unmatched, truly.

Now, on to the bad things. I cant help myself but be so disappointed by how much WF is lacking in comparison to Destiny 2. I accidentally started out by running dungeons (the equivalent of that in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! There is a HUGE amount of original content in the game comparable more to an mmo (and probably a well polished one) than a shooter.

Destiny Player (maybe like 400 or 500, i don't really remember) and warframe (1k hours) player here, i going to drop some pros and cons, because why not?. i'm going to put the pros first and i'm going to discard warframe pros and cons because i'm too lazy to write more and this is a warframe forum, everyone here can deduce based in this pros and cons down here. Btw, let's get started:

Pros:
- It has PVP.

- It has Raids (not the shadow legend)
- It has Gambit, fun mode, but kind of frustrating to play sometimes (I was really close to put gambit in the cons).
- No build times.
- It has this 'is more about connection than expansion' thing that Steve wants.
- Fashion is more customizable.
- The game design (Open Worlds and everything) is pretty neat. I really love it.
- Campaign is freaking amazing (Warframe can't compete again that).

Cons:

- PVE part from Destiny 2 is more repetitive than warframe PVE, at least is amazing when you start playing, public events drop table is useless, and at least 2 o 3 strikes gives something useful. 
- PVP is kind of unbalanced (Well, is kind of expected and at least it have PVP)
- Kind of slow-paced shooter.
- Without Forsaken is unplayable (At least isn't really expensive)
- When you get close to endgame, updates are really two months to get number changes and season pass every 3 months (at least isn't really expensive neither).
- 'You had to be there'
-  Matchmaking is a joke.
-  Ever-verse is a joke.
- Swords are a joke, busted and fun at the same time (kind of confusing)
- You spend more time dismantling blue weapons and going through loading screens that actual playing.

 

Extra:

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

Liches are a lovely addition as a concept, yet just a more spongy enemy to put bullets in.

Then you get Destiny's Champions that do the same, and don't get me started with the IA.

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

 Empyrian, albeit a new game mode, yet with a lackluster execution. Fortuna, copy of PoE with snow. The best actual content WF offered were Eidolons! An amazing boss fight, with skill, team effort and gear required to complete within a time frame to get the maximum loot! And that was 3 years ago!

You are right about Empyrean. Fortuna isn't kind of bad (Well, the grind is really awful i guess),

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

I believe all my words are a lost cause, DE had 7 years now to provide us with actual content and they never did

Again Destiny, yes. The content dropped by Destiny in this 7 years is amazing. 

13 hours ago, Agnostus said:

it just pains me to see a game that ive spent more than 2k hours in, just stay stagnant and not achieve its full potential even after all those years.

Well, life sucks i guess?.
 

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15 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Been hanging around the Destiny community because... honestly the game fascinates me, even if I don't enjoy playing it anywhere near as much as Warframe. And to be frank? From what I've heard over by there, content is just as much of a problem. Yes, there's technically more of it, but they have the problem of 'all the content is the same' - lots and lots of horde modes and their version bounties (y'know nightwave? That's a good 50% of new D2 content of late from what I've heard) is what I've been hearing about, same in, same out. Say what you will about Warframe, they've been avoiding that problem as much as possible. Yeah, PoE to Fortuna had that problem and an argument could be made for reworks being 'the same' (but that's not really the same beast).

But Disruption? Totally different to other gamemodes. Same for Defection, for better or for worse which I believe was the previously most-recent new gamemode. Bounties at least are fairly different experientially to regular missions due to the randomised objectives. Eidolons to PT to Exploiter are all very different fights. Conservation, mining and fishing are all very different side activities. Kuva Lich hunting might take place on the same tilesets and in 'standard' mission formats, but it's pretty different to the content surrounding it. And of course, Empyrean. Complete paradigm shift in gameplay, despite lacking much of its own game modes at present.

And, most amusingly of all, there's this reddit thread which eerily mirrors the kind of thing you hear over by here

  Hide contents

 

 

It's a question of picking your poison. Do you want regular, polished, but ultimately repetitive and somewhat meaningless new content? or [DE]layed, rough but hugely ambitious new content? I prefer the latter, and prefer Warframe's overall gameplay, but that's me... and admittedly probably most people here. We are on the Warframe boards after all.

Maybe destiny 2 and warframe aren't as different as people make them out to be, reading that link you put there gave me a feeling of deja vu. The state of both games' communitys seem to be mirror images of each other, despite the fact the gameplay is VERY different between the 2 of them. 

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Destiny has a core problem of if you don't buy the dlc you get left behind, some things previously accessible to you are now locked off until you buy the dlc. The problem plagued the first, it still plagues the second and it's a large part of why I stopped playing it. That, and boring af grinds and forcing me to grind pvp for a weapon when I'd rather stick to pve

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hace 20 horas, Agnostus dijo:

t in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! 

^ This is Destiny. A Game.

hace 20 horas, Agnostus dijo:

 Every 3 months DE offers a 45-125 euro pack for 5 cosmetic items (accessories and a prime wf thats basically the same wf with a bit of an upgrade in stats and better looks). Truly disappointing. 

Warframe is a fashion store and has a game.

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6 —á–į—Ā–ĺ–≤ –Ĺ–į–∑–į–ī, (XB1)Peaches Pan Tao —Ā–ļ–į–∑–į–Ľ:

Imagine being a PVE player, and having your favorite sniper nerfed because it's too OP in PVP. U don't play PVP, and yet your favorite weapon gets shat on.

Sounds like good old days in Guild Wars 2. "We just finally bothered to give necromancers endgame-viable build, but it's too opressive in PVP, so here, take your nerfhammer".

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graphics, animations, missions, stability?

warframe: 1 server for multiple hosts and 1 host for 50 ~ 100 clients (50 ~ 100 clients? 3 players and all enemies moving on the map) and connection is a factor.

destiny: 1 server for squads and some enemies

there are good and bad things to destiry
there are good and bad things to warframe

 

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On 2020-03-19 at 6:00 PM, Loza03 said:

Been hanging around the Destiny community because... honestly the game fascinates me, even if I don't enjoy playing it anywhere near as much as Warframe. And to be frank? From what I've heard over by there, content is just as much of a problem. Yes, there's technically more of it, but they have the problem of 'all the content is the same' - lots and lots of horde modes and their version bounties (y'know nightwave? That's a good 50% of new D2 content of late from what I've heard) is what I've been hearing about, same in, same out. Say what you will about Warframe, they've been avoiding that problem as much as possible. Yeah, PoE to Fortuna had that problem and an argument could be made for reworks being 'the same' (but that's not really the same beast).

But Disruption? Totally different to other gamemodes. Same for Defection, for better or for worse which I believe was the previously most-recent new gamemode. Bounties at least are fairly different experientially to regular missions due to the randomised objectives. Eidolons to PT to Exploiter are all very different fights. Conservation, mining and fishing are all very different side activities. Kuva Lich hunting might take place on the same tilesets and in 'standard' mission formats, but it's pretty different to the content surrounding it. And of course, Empyrean. Complete paradigm shift in gameplay, despite lacking much of its own game modes at present.

And, most amusingly of all, there's this reddit thread which eerily mirrors the kind of thing you hear over by here

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

It's a question of picking your poison. Do you want regular, polished, but ultimately repetitive and somewhat meaningless new content? or [DE]layed, rough but hugely ambitious new content? I prefer the latter, and prefer Warframe's overall gameplay, but that's me... and admittedly probably most people here. We are on the Warframe boards after all.

Wow you summed up all my thoughts perfectly have my like.

Funnily enough the 2 games are in quite similiar predicaments both seemingly lacking in "meaningful content" by the words of both playerbases.

Bungie seems to think their new seasons are a good way to keep players engaged but seem to mostly repeat content and types of horde mode with different skins plus talking about taking away current content like weapons to deal with powercreep.Heck the weapon perks in destiny have needed an overhaul since day 1 there are so many guns that are just not worth using.Oh yeah theyre also still charging money for these "content" drops not to mention the microtransaction shop just gets stuffed with more stuff to get more money out of people instead of spreading that stuff to other places.

DE seems to think that throwing mechanics from different games into Warframe will reinvigorate the game and it works like 50% of the time the cinematic quests and the open worlds were liked by the community but the new ones like Liches and Railjack were just thrown into the game unfinished and people rightly hated them.Also they seem to forget that you kinda have to connect the new content to the base game or you just end up with a mess of floating islands that arent really connected.I guess they atleast rework core systems from time to time but at a slower rate then most players would like and then they just add more stuff to the pile that needs reworking or fixing.

Honestly this is more the fault of the business model and management of both companies then everything else.Both rush out content just in different ways to keep players and keep the cash flowing.At this point it honestly feels like both games are in a bit of a rut because of bad foundation that is slowly crumbling.I feel like both games will never reach their peak unless they just redo the whole thing....Though i guess Bungie tried with Destiny 2 and just faceplanted more than anything so i dunno.

 

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23 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

This isn't the Destiny 2 forum. Comparing the two completely different games is stupid.

I can't believe we're now well into 2020 and the Warframe community still hasn't dropped this.

It's mind sets like this that has the game in it's current state

Shame on you, AdunSaveMe

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I think it's worth noting that a recurring complaint about D2 (I believe I first heard it when Curse of Osiris dropped, and continue to see it to this day) is that each update brings more items to the Eververse than to the actual gameplay activities.

Thought it was relevant, since people seem to be making the claim that DE isn't adding in enough new gameplay content as opposed to cosmetic items. Glass houses, and all that. Personally, I think DE's struck a good balance, especially since new cosmetic options are something that the community asks for fairly often.

Furthermore, while I'm no developer, I would imagine that skins are something the art team can work on without putting any pressure on the coders. Since art assets tend to be a one-and-done affair, while coding may need to be revised and fixed multiple times over the course of development, it makes sense to give the artists something else to do once all of the assets needed for a given project are done.

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On 2020-03-19 at 6:12 PM, Agnostus said:

First off, i must admit, WF has ruined movement in every other game for me. The fluidity of movement in WF is just unmatched, truly.

Now, on to the bad things. I cant help myself but be so disappointed by how much WF is lacking in comparison to Destiny 2. I accidentally started out by running dungeons (the equivalent of that in Destiny 2 at least) and O.M.F.G. At least 5-6 different 20-minute expeditions with voice narration and differentiation in areas. And as ive read more, this is just the tip of the iceberg! There is a HUGE amount of original content in the game comparable more to an mmo (and probably a well polished one) than a shooter.

Then i continued to the "main quest line" and the open world... Just amazed. So many different things happening all at once, people running around, public events, quests and side quests all happening at the same time.

The game features PvP and PvPvE but honestly im not even comparing this because i believe PvP is hard to implement in WF.

What strikes me though as such an unfair deal we're getting with WF is the true lack of content. Every 3 months DE offers a 45-125 euro pack for 5 cosmetic items (accessories and a prime wf thats basically the same wf with a bit of an upgrade in stats and better looks). Truly disappointing. 

DE will say that they want to keep all real content free. I respect that to some extend but there could be a compromise. Make the frame obtainable in game, but the cosmetics obtainable through a quest that you gotta pay real money (or plat maybe?) to unlock. This will make people that do enjoy the game probably more keen on actually buying the packs. Or actually create some original content, raids, dungeons, timed events that need something more than plain zombie-mode grinding, PvEvP, anything for crying out loud! 

Liches are a lovely addition as a concept, yet just a more spongy enemy to put bullets in. Empyrian, albeit a new game mode, yet with a lackluster execution. Fortuna, copy of PoE with snow. The best actual content WF offered were Eidolons! An amazing boss fight, with skill, team effort and gear required to complete within a time frame to get the maximum loot! And that was 3 years ago!

I believe all my words are a lost cause, DE had 7 years now to provide us with actual content and they never did, it just pains me to see a game that ive spent more than 2k hours in, just stay stagnant and not achieve its full potential even after all those years.

Those were my 50 cents. Thank you for reading this far.

Density is a flaming pile of garbage run by greedy money grubbing corporate shills and and should only serve as an example of what not to do. 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Density is a flaming pile of garbage run by greedy money grubbing corporate shills and and should only serve as an example of what not to do. 

It took me a few hundred hours to realize this, but it's true. Their Eververse store is oppressive AF, and the game isn't even close to f2p. 

Let him enjoy his honeymoon period, he'll figure it out.

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You just started.  Go to bungie.net and click on forums and see what people with a more informed opinion think of Destiny 2 in its current state.

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On 2020-03-19 at 6:30 PM, Redfeather75 said:

Wait till you head to IO to do your bounties for the 100th time. Destiny 2 is very polished. But it sucks in the end.

Don’t get it twisted.  Warframe is no different in this regard.  Doing bounties on Io or the edz is the same feeling as doing yet another exterminate on who cares it doesn’t matter planet fighting the same 3 types of grineer.  Both games really struggle in providing meaningful twists to ho hum content.  

between waiting for a chroma rework and already getting bored of railjack and liches, I’ve been playing more D2 right now as well.  There’s a lot it does better and a lot worse.  

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14 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You’ve made some interesting points and observations in your post.

DUSK looks really different to Warframe.

Out of curiosity and to understand more clearly where you’re coming from, what are you comparing between the two?

On the surface, apples and oranges may be quite different, but when you get right down to it, they are both still fruit. Its not about the specific mechanics of each game, since they are quite different in how they play. One is an old skool style single player FPS, the other is a never ending multiplayer third person MMO. But that isn't really what I am comparing. I am comparing the overall quality of each game. There are plenty of markers of quality that can be applied to any game that Warframe does poorly.

DE has clearly never had a cohesive plan for Warframe. They have just thrown whatever crazy idea they had into a pile and called it a game, regardless of how well it actually works. This has made the whole game less and less functional over time as they keep adding more new things that don't really fit with the old.

The Dusk devs on the other had, clearly had a plan from beginning to end. They knew where they wanted the story to go, how they wanted the combat to work, what weapons they were going to have, etc. It makes the whole experience much more fun all the way through.

 

Though, if you want to compare specifics: Warframe makes you wait forever before you can get to any of the fun parts. Want that cool new gun they just released? Go grind for resources. Want to get that new Prime Frame? Go grind relics. Want to build a Railjack? Wait through the Rising Tide quest, then play on someone else's ship to farm parts to make yours useable. Want dessert? Eat your vegetables.

Games like Dusk don't do that at all. They let you have fun from beginning to end. You don't have to grind XP to get to the next level. You don't have to farm resources to get the super shotgun. You don't have to finish all your chores before Mom will let you go play. You just play the game and have fun.

And yeah, I get why Warframe is the way it is. Money. Games with microtransactions need to get players to buy them somehow. But, most of the time they do so with intentional bad game design. They make parts of the game less fun to play, so that you want to pay to skip them. But no matter the reason behind it, bad game design is still bad game design. This goes into:

15 hours ago, Voltage said:

Maybe you misinterpreted me given what you wrote is almost exactly what I said. Total time invested certainly matters. When you first started Warframe, something about it was amazing to you (given you stated you have 2,000 hours), and that's great! However, the same effect can come into play when starting any new game because it is fresh and shiny. You might have overwhelming bias for a new game because it is new and exciting, and you have alot of content to burn through. However, you could or could not enjoy the game past 500, 1000, or 6000 hours.

How many years and hours you've put into a game most certainly reflects your opinion on the quality of the game.

You are talking about getting tired of a game over time. I am talking about the specific actions you are spending your time on. Are you having fun fighting a cool boss or playing a story quest because you want to? Or are you begrudgingly grinding the same mission over and over again because you need something? This time ratio is terrible in Warframe. You spend hours doing chores and only get to go play for a few minutes.

Also, this is actually worst when you first start, and everything should be all fresh and interesting to you. You have to spend way more time grinding at the beginning than later on, because you have no resources to work with. I remember playing for over a week before I finally managed to get enough resources to build my first new gun, and it was almost a month before I managed to finally build a new Frame. It wasn't fun, and nearly made me quit altogether.

But, as I said above, this is intentional design in Warframe. They have intentionally made the grinding in this game unbearable, because they don't actually want you to spend all that time grinding, they would much rather you pay to skip it. Even if it isn't intentional, and DE just plain doesn't know how to keep things from being so horribly grindy, then that isn't any better. Incompetence isn't a valid excuse for bad game design, either.

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On 2020-03-20 at 10:09 AM, ty91 said:

if it were pointless people wouldn't be pointing it out all the time

You clearly haven’t met many people.

Uneducated criticism is literally worthless.

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1 hour ago, Teljaxx said:

 On the surface, apples and oranges may be quite different, but when you get right down to it, they are both still fruit.

Hmmm... I see, I see. 

Valid points. I find the ratio of enjoyable gameplay to busywork worth considering.

I’m curious what you think of some questions I have.

- Must games give the player everything from the start? I’m playing Animal Crossing right now and the trickle feed mechanic is quite good, I think

- Where does immersion fit into the concept that there’s only action(play)? If there was only the destination (the fight), I wonder if there’s a journey to be had and a world to notice. Titanfall 1 is something that springs to mind as an example where a story was told during all the playing, but it was easily lost on me because I was too busy fighting

- And are you speaking for me in claiming what I find fun? I‚Äôm going to have to stop you there if you are, since you can‚Äôt do that. On your behalf¬†I‚Äôll¬†mentally replace all the ‚ÄúYou‚ÄĚs in your post with ‚ÄúIn my experience‚ÄĚ or ‚ÄúI think‚ÄĚ or whatever phrasing would be necessary to change the things you say into your perspective, not mine.

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i have about 100 hrs in destiny, and about 3000 hrs in warframe. I'm bored of both. In my opinion though the 3000 hrs was worth a lot more to me than the 100 hrs of destiny. I feel like destiny is a far more repetitive game than warframe is, and i dislike how its a "free" game that isn't entirely free for all of the content. That seems like false advertising to me.

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I tried to play Destiny 2 myself.

Then I found out my controller won't work with it (it will not detect the triggers for some reason) and I gave up before I even started.

I tried several things like programs to spoof my controller as an Xbox One controller but nothing worked.

Also before anyone says "Why don't you just use KBM 4head?" I absolutely hate KBM as a control setup, and the older I get the more it makes my fingers cramp.

...Really wish it had worked just for the sake of trying something new though.

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On 2020-03-19 at 8:27 PM, Lion said:

Not to really counter any of your points, I think most are fair observations. However I'm not sure that the comparison of Destiny to Warframe is really a fair one. People seem to forget that Warframe was and remains to be an independent game that had no major game publishers backing it up. You really need to look at the logistics of everything when comparing the two.

 

Destiny as a series on the other hand, in the same span of years as Warframe, has had over 500 million invested in it by major publisher Activision, on top of having 2 full priced games that sold ridiculously well. Not to mention they have name brand recognition in the name of Bungie and Activision. Warframe is backed by a small studio (and admittedly a chinese chicken company which has nowhere near the financial power of the aforementioned companies), in short, Warframe's small team (roughly 300 employees versus Bungie's 600+) coupled with the revenue (reportedly less than half of what Destiny 2 made in 2019) just can't compete with that, and it shows.

 

tl;dr

Warframe compared to Bungie has:

-half the team

-half the money

-half the name brand

It can only be expected that it falls short compared to another studio that started off much better than DE did.

In all fairness your argument was valid it's your opinion and overall a good read I do disagree on some things but  it's no excuses that because they have less so you should expect them to do less. Wf has been active for years now so I don't give it Any short comings of a new fresh out the womb ftp title

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But these threads are for salt young tenno your opinion holds no weight when people get so easily offended in these mines. Grab a hat get your pick and start to swingin boy. 

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Since the f2p model is brought up so much in this discussion, i cannot help but point out Nightwave.

When it first came out, people were applauding DE for providing a free battle-pass mechanic to all players.

What did we get? 2 Seasons (dont even get me started with intermissions) with again no actual content except for a talking head and a couple of cosmetic items, practically no new gear (except 3 umbra formas) and in general an overhaul of the old alert system and nothing more!

What i mean to say by that  is that "free" content is free when there is content behind it, if its a re-skin of an old mechanic is either called a patch or in case u charge for it a scam.

Back to my original thesis, if DE were to charge lets say 1000 plat every 3 months for actual content, i believe this would please everyone and in fact it would cost around 3$ a month with currency easily farmed in game, because literally anyone can collect 330 plat/month with minimal effort.

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1 hour ago, Agnostus said:

Since the f2p model is brought up so much in this discussion, i cannot help but point out Nightwave.

When it first came out, people were applauding DE for providing a free battle-pass mechanic to all players.

What did we get? 2 Seasons (dont even get me started with intermissions) with again no actual content except for a talking head and a couple of cosmetic items, practically no new gear (except 3 umbra formas) and in general an overhaul of the old alert system and nothing more!

What i mean to say by that  is that "free" content is free when there is content behind it, if its a re-skin of an old mechanic is either called a patch or in case u charge for it a scam.

Back to my original thesis, if DE were to charge lets say 1000 plat every 3 months for actual content, i believe this would please everyone and in fact it would cost around 3$ a month with currency easily farmed in game, because literally anyone can collect 330 plat/month with minimal effort.

And that bolded part was exactly the goal of NW, nothing else. It's like the people that complained about it not being endgame or challenging, when it was never intended to be. It had the same intent as alerts, the further you get in the game the more tasks you have access to, the difference was that NW removed the timegate thing of alerts, so you no longer had to be online at that specific hour when that specific alert when up that had the items you needed.

And the content in NW was there, since it led up to an event the further the season progressed, which had new weapons tied to it along with a boss. Wolf was done better since he could pop up at any time while the infested werent all that interesting during the lead up to the boss event.

Asking plat for content would not solve anything, since plat can be obtained for free, so it would not guarantee them money to dedicate towards new content. Prime access already serves the purpose and you cannot trade for PA. Plus trading isnt a safe thing to do, since there are people that use it for RL frauds and innocent people getting negatively hit by it. And if they were to add platinum content, prices of everything would likely skyrocket.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Agnostus:

Since the f2p model is brought up so much in this discussion, i cannot help but point out Nightwave.

When it first came out, people were applauding DE for providing a free battle-pass mechanic to all players.

What did we get? 2 Seasons (dont even get me started with intermissions) with again no actual content except for a talking head and a couple of cosmetic items, practically no new gear (except 3 umbra formas) and in general an overhaul of the old alert system and nothing more!

What i mean to say by that  is that "free" content is free when there is content behind it, if its a re-skin of an old mechanic is either called a patch or in case u charge for it a scam.

Back to my original thesis, if DE were to charge lets say 1000 plat every 3 months for actual content, i believe this would please everyone and in fact it would cost around 3$ a month with currency easily farmed in game, because literally anyone can collect 330 plat/month with minimal effort.

or boost other content like arbitration. so more people would buy resource boosters. for example epic skins and effects for hundreds vitus essences.

if devs will get real cash then they can develop real content. i enjoy patches a lot. they have very talented coders. with more money they can beat **** games like wow very easy and player base will grow much faster.

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Destiny 2 is a more compact and interconnected product. Warframe is a combination of multiple ideas, gameplay loops. Some of which are only barely attached to the rest of the game. 

Now that can be both good and bad for both games. Destiny 2's RNG and grind is abysmal compared to Warframe's. Having to grind Gambit, Crucible and Strikes and chunks of content being locked behind Raids can become bothersome to say the least. Now not saying that such exclusive content shouldn't exist. It's just it seems to be a bit too prevalent in D2's case. And while Warframe's disparate gameplay loops sometimes feel unfinished or needlessly tacked on, they do provide options outside of a player's normal style of play. What "normal" might be to any given person.

The one thing i believe D2 definitely has over WF is the enemy balance and combat gameplay loop. While D2 has the light level system as a sort of progression meter, outside of Nightfall Strikes, Raids, Heroic missions and seasonal endgame events, the core gameplay areas and arenas are not so drastically affected by it. As opposed to Warframe's mod based progression where the gradient of difficulty can be mental in how it swings from one extreme to the next. 

And while I enjoy the lore and universe of both games, Warframe just seems... weirder but somehow more entertaining. 

 

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