well.. i just played destiny 2..

[844448]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Are you okay  84? I've never seen you not defend warframe brother. I will call your local authorities. I worried are your sick? Do you Need anything brother?

So giving my view about it is defending Warframe?

And brother? I don't even know you

[Ham_Grenabe]

Like @bad4youLT, as a former Destiny player I would love to see something like the Shattered Throne concept show up in Warframe. A clever, fun, repeatable, lengthy mission in a unique environment with that-mission-only drops, and it's own lore and narrations. Edit: yes, that also describes raids, but in this case, it would be a raid doable by a standard squad size. Not a double-size raid, just the usual team size. 

I personally think Bungie ought to have dropped raids entirely and focused on that model and just flooded the game with dungeons (I don't know if Bungie ever added any more of them, but Shattered Throne was a hoot). 

As far as play goes, they're so different. Warframe definitely spoils people on freedom of movement and speed, though. No debate there. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[844448]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Like @bad4youLT, as a former Destiny player I would love to see something like the Shattered Throne concept show up in Warframe. A clever, fun, repeatable, lengthy mission in a unique environment with that-mission-only drops, and it's own lore and narrations.

So, more exclusive drops like conclave skins, arbitration mods and arcane, and such?

[Ham_Grenabe]

5 minutes ago, 844448 said:

So, more exclusive drops like conclave skins, arbitration mods and arcane, and such?

Like, you do the mission, you get one of those drops. Maybe you get the "special mission ephemera." 

So, uh, yes?

The question suggests that it's a bad thing, and maybe it is (or I'm inferring tone where there is none). Coming up on Destiny, though, I have always thought that "if you don't do that specific mission, you don't get that specific thing" was a perfectly appropriate loot structure.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe
typos

[844448]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Like, you do the mission, you get one of those drops. Maybe you get the "special mission ephemera." 

So, uh, yes?

The question suggests that it's a bad thing, and maybe it i0s (or I'm inferring tone where there is none). Coming up on Destiny, though, I have always thought that "if you don't do that specific mission, you don't get that specific thing" was perfectly a appropriate loot structure.

And unfortunately that "if you don't do that specific mission, you don't get that specific thing" also means you pay or you get nothing, and quite sure people dislike that mission exclusive drops because reasons (even there are people complain because arcane is only from eidolon so what can I say?)

[Ham_Grenabe]

2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

And unfortunately that "if you don't do that specific mission, you don't get that specific thing" also means you pay or you get nothing, and quite sure people dislike that mission exclusive drops because reasons (even there are people complain because arcane is only from eidolon so what can I say?)

Well, in Destiny, yes, you pay for that content. The whole model is different there.

Of course as you say, this community does not favor exclusivity, or having to do a particular thing to get a particular thing, pretty much at all (hell, I'm sure I've complained about it as well). Still, Destiny was the first multi-player loot-type game I ever played; with that as a training ground it seems normal to me for loot to be exclusive to activities. And dungeons/mini-raids/whatever were just something I think would be a fun addition to this game. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[844448]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Well, in Destiny, yes, you pay for that content. The whole model is different there.

Of course as you say, this community does not favor exclusivity, or having to do a particular thing to get a particular thing, pretty much at all. Dungeons/mini-raids/whatever were just something I think would be a fun addition to the game. 

Fun addition? Maybe but what will the incentive to do it? I would be cruel and start making exclusive drops on many places (Heat/radiation zaw parts from profit-taker, maybe?) and I would see so many players marching to crucify me

[Ham_Grenabe]

43 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Fun addition? Maybe but what will the incentive to do it? I would be cruel and start making exclusive drops on many places (Heat/radiation zaw parts from profit-taker, maybe?) and I would see so many players marching to crucify me

Would you like me just to say "it was a bad idea, sorry?" I can do that if it helps. 

[Xehalin]

D2 is very polished and does have a lot of content, but that doesn't mean anything. The pve in Destiny 2 is extremely repetitive. Gun variety is extremely basic with most weapons sticking to weapon archetyping, while slightly changing up their RoF and other stats to give them different feels instead of actual unique properties, which leads to stagnation pretty quickly. Pve enemies are bullet sponges, which when combined with the previous issue, creates this slog of a shooter. Why any weapon over sniper when snipers do more damage? Also, all weapons in the same archetype do the same damage, so unless it's an exotic with an exclusive feature, there's no reason not to use the weapon with the highest rate of fire, bullet count, and perk access. Perks just don't do enough to make it worth picking up certain weapons either. Trust me, the shooting felt good at first, but it got boring real quick. Melee might as well as not even exist.

Tl;dr: All weapons in the same archetype play virtually the same in pve, enemies are bullet sponges, and it makes things very tiring quickly.

PVP: It's an imbalanced mess with ridiculously low TTKs on certain weapons, which rule the meta, and slow TTKs on weapons that aren't meta. It's also stale. Power weapons oneshot, snipers oneshot, LoW and most shotguns would onetap at close range, etc. 

Movement is just Halo Reach with an extra bit of flair. Very boring.  

Pvp was the only reason to pick up D2 for me, and the experience got tiring and rage inducing fast.

[844448]

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Would you like me just to say "it was a bad idea, sorry?" I can do that if it helps. 

No no no, it's a great idea, I would like to enjoy the tears in this forum the moment DE add activity exclusive drop, it's a great pleasure to see

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, 844448 said:

No no no, it's a great idea, I would like to enjoy the tears in this forum the moment DE add activity exclusive drop, it's a great pleasure to see

But uh, they already have activity exclusive drops here. Why would people tear up the forums over something being added that we already have? The only reason people tend to complain is because they dislike the game mode, not because specific things are tied behind it. If Eidolons were actually well designed and enjoyable encounters I dont think many people would actually complain that they are the only access point to the best arcanes. Just as people wouldnt complain about PT if he actually had drops tied to it to make the fight worthwhile.

Adding zaw parts to PT would be a freakin brilliant move! Because he would suddenly have rewards that you may actually want.

[lukasystem]

Destiny 2 got very fun gunplay, but it has a pretty bad design overall, in terms of how they want you to play the game, when a season ends, most of your weapons will go to dust, and sometimes you need to swap to a weapon type that you don't really like, for example, i don't like submachine guns in Destiny, but sometimes they swap the "shield penetration" to that weapon of weapon, when the season before it used to be assault rifles.

Most of the time you're forced into these kind of barriers where "hey, have a nice time trying to kill that shield enemy with your handcannon, btw we took the penetration mod of that weapon, haha"

In general they have too many "anti-fun" barriers that prevent you from enjoying the game the way one would like, it's all Bungie's point of view, and none other matters, you want that new weapon? go farm an intolerable amount of headshots in Crucible/Gambit quest, most of them with progression loss due to other players killing you.

On another note, "only friends or premade" matchmaking on certain levels of Strike missions, Raids, and such are disgusting, plus there's no proper "recruitment" channel for party inviting, and if you try solo you'd be severely punished, instead of properly getting a balanced content (basically getting rekt anytime you're out of cover for more than 2 seconds).

To name a few pain in the ass weapons to get ('cause that's basically the only thing to motivate you after finishing main story missions): Ace of Spades and Malfeasence while solo, were a goddamn nightmare, and that's as you say "the tip of the iceberg".

[Toppien]

well nowdays im playing anthem, and the movement system there is what warframe never did with zephyr, and despite what people say about anthem, it is a legit fun and long game.

the combos, the difficulty settings, the enemies, the loot, the lore setting, maybe its because i got burned out of warframe, but anthem just hits me in all the right spots ive been waiting years for DE to do with warframe, and anthem was a commercial flop, that's saying something

Edited March 21, 2020 by Toppien

[(NSW)Greybones]

1 hour ago, Toppien said:

well nowdays im playing anthem, and the movement system there is what warframe never did with zephyr, and despite what people say about anthem, it is a legit fun and long game.

the combos, the difficulty settings, the enemies, the loot, the lore setting, maybe its because i got burned out of warframe, but anthem just hits me in all the right spots ive been waiting years for DE to do with warframe, and anthem was a commercial flop, that's saying something

Pretty cool to hear someone’s enjoying an underdog game 👍 There may have been a lot of controversy surrounding it, but I’m glad the work of the animators and graphics artists and visual designers and sound designers and game designers and all those with creative input is being appreciated

Edited March 21, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[MysticDragonMage]

i think the developers are getting enough income and the game has enough content for what it is. its just that the state of the game is making releasing new content more complicated, and even when they do make new content, its mostly to satisfy a loud veteran community in order to keep them from leaving.

here in warframe you've obviously played for a while and patiently waiting for the next content update. but in destiny 2, you are entering a new world and trying to absorb it as a new player, so of course the content is going to be overwelming.

not to mention, destiny 2's new player experience is extremely polished; at least even more so than warframe's.

[Toppien]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Pretty cool to hear someone’s enjoying an underdog game 👍 There may have been a lot of controversy surrounding it, but I’m glad the work of the animators and graphics artists and visual designers and sound designers and game designers and all those with creative input is being appreciated

dude, what i said over and over while playing anthem these past month was "people are being so unfair with this game", the story is quite good, the characters are likeable, the game-play is fun, and the customization is pretty robust (only on javelins, but no javelin looks the same in the time ive been playing with other people is sure the optimization is garbage, but that is the fault of the engine, and bad administration, the devs at bioware still have the touch, but is such a tragedy what they had been though, (incompetent direction) but hey at least i know this, the big boss of EA likes anthem, plus at least EA is been giving their flops a second chance, this time hopefully with more time to come back, better (cuz the actual game is good but with a bad rep) just like no man's sky did

[844448]

On 2020-03-21 at 10:29 AM, OmegaDonut said:

Both games really struggle in providing meaningful twists to ho hum content.

Warframe used to have so much twist back at 2014 though, exterminate on a grineer ship used to have fire, cryogenic leakage, corpus invading out of nowhere, infested outbreak, etc that make the missions often more dangerous to travel through and often caused a lot of down/death. Guess that makes people complain because I never see that kind of thing again nowadays

[Redfeather75]

You know what I don't miss about Destiny 2, is the "quests". It's just raising stats (handgun kills, or orbs collected, or void damage kills) and you eventually find out you need to pvp without warning if you haven't used a video guide or wikia to research.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Redfeather75

[Kyronz]

bought the game back in the day,  it was mildly interesting  for a few days,   to cash intensive for a gameplay that was not good enough.   Found it to be a very EA like experience.

[Teljaxx]

On 2020-03-20 at 11:09 PM, (NSW)Greybones said:

- Must games give the player everything from the start? I’m playing Animal Crossing right now and the trickle feed mechanic is quite good, I think

Not always. Its usually good to have something to progress towards. But, whatever it takes to progress towards that thing needs to be fun. Way too many modern games, especially F2P games like Warframe, make the grinding and farming longer than they should and it gets old before you're done. And at that point, the end goal is the only point in playing. But, it should be about the journey, not the destination. Because if the journey isn't fun, then why are you playing at all? If the game isn't fun in the first place, getting some new toy to use in it won't make it any more fun.

And, actually, one of the very few complaints I have about Dusk is with the weapons. They aren't super original, and you get them all super quickly. This doesn't really leave much room for progression, and they can get a bit stale towards the end of the game. Playing in Intruder mode, where you start each level with nothing but your sickles, can help. But I think it would have been a bit better with a few more guns, and if they had saved some for the later episodes. Like how the original Doom saved the plasma gun and BFG for episode 2 and 3.

But, Dusk is still way better than Waframe in that regard. Warframe replaces engaging gameplay with enforced duration. Because it doesn't matter if its fun if you can get your players to chase after a carrot for long enough. Then it becomes an investment, and they feel stuck, thanks to the sunk cost fallacy.

On 2020-03-20 at 11:09 PM, (NSW)Greybones said:

- Where does immersion fit into the concept that there’s only action(play)? If there was only the destination (the fight), I wonder if there’s a journey to be had and a world to notice. Titanfall 1 is something that springs to mind as an example where a story was told during all the playing, but it was easily lost on me because I was too busy fighting

 

Immersion is extremely important. Some games are good specifically because they are so immersive. The entire reason I like Elite:Dangerous and Mechwarrior Online so much is because of how it feels to pilot the vehicles in them. Yet both of them end up ruining that immersion with the F2P aspects of the games. Because, once again, that is something that most F2P games intentionally ruin in the name of making money and getting people to play as long as possible

Warframe is really one of the least immersive games out there. There are so many things that are there just "because game" or "because money". One of the worst is Platinum. Within the Warframe lore, what is Platinum? Why does it let us instantly acquire things that normally take days to build? Who are we giving it to when we buy things in the market? What about when we rush something in the foundry or Dojo? None of that is ever explained, its just there. As far as I know, no character ever even says the word platinum anywhere in the entire game.

Its fine to have some unrealistic gamey things, because pure realism is rarely fun, but there need to be a balance between simulation and arcade.

On 2020-03-20 at 11:09 PM, (NSW)Greybones said:

- And are you speaking for me in claiming what I find fun? I’m going to have to stop you there if you are, since you can’t do that. On your behalf I’ll mentally replace all the “You”s in your post with “In my experience” or “I think” or whatever phrasing would be necessary to change the things you say into your perspective, not mine.

I am talking about you specifically. But I am not trying to tell you what you enjoy, I am trying to get you to think about whether or not you really did enjoy your time in the game or not. That's why I asked so many questions. It seems like most of the time when people use their total playtime to show how good a game is, they assume that every single moment they spent was fun. But in my experience with F2P games, that is rarely true. They tend to use a lot of tricks to get people to play longer than they really want to, and that can really ruin your enjoyment of the game. Its also what causes burnout, which, as a concept in gaming, is absurd.

[Teljaxx]

9 hours ago, Toppien said:

well nowdays im playing anthem, and the movement system there is what warframe never did with zephyr, and despite what people say about anthem, it is a legit fun and long game.

the combos, the difficulty settings, the enemies, the loot, the lore setting, maybe its because i got burned out of warframe, but anthem just hits me in all the right spots ive been waiting years for DE to do with warframe, and anthem was a commercial flop, that's saying something

Anthem is a perfect example of what I hate about modern games. At its core there is an extremely fun game. The feeling of running and flying around in a Javelin is super cool. The enemies and world are interesting. And the artstyle is great. But, all the peripheral stuff around that is so badly done that it makes the actual fun parts not worth it. EA turned what should have been an awesome experience into yet another endless tedious grind, all for the sake of hopping on that super profitable "live service" bandwagon.

And really, Warframe isn't that different. Every good thing they add to these games is accompanied by a massive grind. Because instead of making the game enjoyable for more than a few hours, they simply try to force people to play forever, regardless of whether or not they are actually having fun. Because when it comes to profitability, enjoyment doesn't actually matter, only time spent logged in. And if anything, making the game less fun makes it more profitable, because then you can have players pay to make it less terrible.

This is one of the main reasons I was comparing Warframe to Dusk before. I really love this whole retro FPS revival that has been going on lately. Because its not just about the old style gameplay, but the old style business model as well. These developers don't do any of this modern moneymaking BS that has ruined the "AAA" industry. They just make a fun game, and sell it. No cut out and sold back DLC, no microtransactions, no constant "live service" changes. Just a nice, simple, fun game.

[ant99999]

9 hours ago, Toppien said:

dude, what i said over and over while playing anthem these past month was "people are being so unfair with this game"

Fun fact: people's opinions are largely formed by media (i.e. youtube). And youtubers are no different from any other company out there - despite what they say, every single one of them works for money. In their case - for views and being scandalous (more so if their channel grows).

Which is why with a proper combination of circumstances any game (or any other product) can be bashed to death if it's profitable.

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

Late to the convo, but here's my two cents having played Warframe, Destiny 1, Destiny 2, and Anthem....

Started with Destiny 1.  My girl and I had a BLAST and made some real friends in the game.  The graphics were Amazeballs.  It was where I cut my teeth on Raids. 
Destiny 1 raids were crazy, so it became a lot of players-helping-player live and in-game.  At first the Destiny raids seemed utterly Rube Goldberg, but then my girl (who has MUCH more experience with WOW raids) explained to me that raids are meant to be nuts.  So I got into it.
At first I HATED Destiny 1's PvP.  I SUCKED at it.  But some of the bounties required PvP so I practiced and practiced and eventually got pretty good.

Next thing you know I am LOVING Destiny 1 PvP (my girl still hated it).
But then after a solid year of Destiny 1 it got old.  The GRIND got old.
And above all.... the price was AAA but the amount of new content per DLC was minimal.  Like maybe 6  hours of new solo play per DLC, and that was at full price.
The cost-benefit ratio of Destiny 1 started to dwindle.
Above all however, I SERIOUSLY did not appreciate the "Pay-or-break" model of Destiny 1 (D1).  To keep playing with your buddies you HAD to buy the new DLC or else you were stuck outside the lobby of MANY games.  

This was when I started looking for other games and randomly found Warframe.
I messed around with it on and off while still logging into D1 once in a while.
Slowly but surely Warframe grew on me.  Above all, as many have mentioned including the OP, the fluid motion of the melee was Astounding.

I recall getting my Orthos Prime and just sitting there drop-jawed as Valkyr spun the Orthos across her chest before striking the next foe.
It was (and still is) a hard learning curve for a beginner, but there was also this fantastic Players-Helping-Players "mentorship" vibe to the whole game.

I met some seriously cool random people who took me under their wings and taught me any number of secrets and how-tos.

Nowadays I do the same for newbies that I find, paying it forward, and its a pleasure to pass it on.


Bit of backstory - MASS EFFECT 2 was theeee game that brought me into Gaming in general as an adult.  So I was in love with a deep Sci-Fi RPG.
After enjoying Warframe for a year, and dropping Destiny 1 completely, I started to miss a good RPG.  This led me to MASS EFFECT Andromeda, Witcher 3, etc.
But here's the thing - I kept coming back to Warframe.  It was the perfect game to jump on for an hour and play and then get back to work.
Then Warframe released Plains Of Eidolon, and the scope of Warframe jumped by a magnitude.  I was hooked.
Even my girl who had not adopted warframe nearly as much was awed by PoE enough to jump back in for a while.

That  said, she and I both pined for the fun we'd shared with online buddies in Destiny Year 1.  So when Destiny 2 was announced we let all our friends know we would try it out.  And we did.  And it was good for a short while.  But despite the continuously spectacular graphics of Destiny 2, the same annoying grind was there (albeit a bit smoothed out), and the same "pay full price for minimum content DLC" bullsh*t.  And ultimately it was still (Darth Vader level "boooooo") still Pay-or-Break.  No thank you.

Again back to Warframe.  Reliable, quality Warframe.  Dependable Warframe.  Always fun, whether for 1 hour or 4 hours.
And then my friends from Destiny started moving to Warframe too.  Added bonus.
Warframe had grown to become my "Main Game," my staple, and as I traveled I could always borrow a PS4 for a week or so and play for a while, jumping right back in like riding a bicycle.  There was always a new quest or a new warframe to obtain, etc.  My staple game.

Then Bioware announced Anthem.  My girl - an even bigger Mass Effect fan than myself (and thats saying a Lot!) - and I were super excited.
Sadly we were traveling so when we finally got around to Anthem almost a year later it was a massive disappointment.  Just fyi, we wanted to love Anthem - sooo many things we could praise about it - but the game was plainly and simply half-baked, even by their own admission via the press, and in the verbiage on the back cover no less (yep its there in the verbiage, [sic] "in an unfinished world..."  😄  Waaayyy too many mid-game crashes vastly disproportionate to any other game.  EA / Bioware then announced they would no longer do any more fixes on Anthem, so we tossed in the towel.

Once again I find myself back on Warframe.  Good Ol' reliable Warframe.  Awesome movement, incredible melee, always something to do.
Never the same exact map (except PoE and OV), intriguing updates, and yes a verrrryy long and slowly drawn out story arc.
Five years in I am MR22 and there are still huge parts of the game I have yet to investigate and missions to complete.
And all of this offered for FREE from DE.
DE are like Gaming Gods to me.  And while I head off for a few months here or there, I always come back to my staple.

Could Warframe improve?  Sure, and that's why we have these forums.  Unlike Anthem et al, DE Really Listens and that too amazes and impresses me.
I have lost count of the problems discussed in these forums, only to see the problems addressed in the subsequent updates.
The creativity of design, the East-West blending of lore and style....
and lets face it:
Who does not love the idea of Alien Space Ninjas?
Peace out.

[Nevaee]

D2 has no player house. In WF at least I have my tiny lill ship 🙂

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Nevaee said:

D2 has no player house. In WF at least I have my tiny lill ship 🙂

Plus the railjack. Sure, no decorations, but you can still customise the colours (which is the bare minimum of such things I've seen). And unlike most player houses, you can take it into battle!