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TheArcSet

Make Viral only increase Viral & proc damage, rather than nerfing the buff?

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Posted (edited)

Dear DE,

I would like to suggest that, to balance the currently insane Viral meta, a good option could be to make viral only increase damage taken from Viral damage and status proc damage.

This would massively decrease it's overall effect, alleviate the "better than any other health/armour-class modifier" issue and make combining it with utility elements, like heat or corrosive, a much more strategic decision.

Best wishes and thank you for your continuing efforts to improve this game.

PS. Part of the current problem is a lack of general knowledge that Armour-class modifiers aren't the same as Health-class modifiers, but as few units are heavily armoured, with enough health to matter, below sortie levels, that's only a small part of the problem.

Edited by TheArcSet
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So making Viral be like the current Gas but without the AOE?

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How about focus on buffing the elements that were gutted (gas and corrosive) instead of nerfing the only decent one left? 

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2 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

How about focus on buffing the elements that were gutted (gas and corrosive) instead of nerfing the only decent one left? 

Where were these wise words of wisdom when someone at DE decided "I feel like killing Magus Lockdown today".

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but we definitely need Magnetic Status to let us deal 7.44x Damage to Shields.

there's numerous of the Damage Types that don't make all that much sense. and making so many of the Status Effects be "another version of this other Status Effect" is going to continue to be a core of the problem. it's hard to create desires for a wide range of Damage Types when they share so many similarities.

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For a viral nerf

+65% damage to health, +15% per stack, up to 200% at 10 stacks. 

The actual effect is useful but too strong. So keep the same effect, and make it a bit less strong.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So you want to Condition overload Viral and make it absolutely useless and never ever worth using for anything.

No

Condition overload is the strongest damage mod for melees, what are you saying?

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5 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Condition overload is the strongest damage mod for melees, what are you saying?

it used to be

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1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

it used to be

(pst, you should acquire a Calculator)

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1 hour ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Explain then, I'm curious.

It went from 60% increase of total damage per status proc to 120% increase of base damage per proc.

You don’t need to be a mathematician to understand that that is a massive decrease in damage output.

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I think an effective change to viral that would make it unique but somewhat less effective than its current incarnation could look like this:

Change it so that it reduces an enemies health by 50%.  No other status does that, it's strategic, and it's a significant single proc damage.

Yeah, I know, it devalues further procs from the same type and encourages viral built weapons to keep it as the lowest damage type, but based upon six years of experience testing this method, I can assure you that it functions pretty well.

Honestly, when it came to Viral, they reinvented the wheel by strapping rockets to it and somehow didn't foresee that we'd make it go really fast.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It went from 60% increase of total damage per status proc to 120% increase of base damage per proc.

You don’t need to be a mathematician to understand that that is a massive decrease in damage output.

You still didn't prove your point. It's one of the strongest melee mods in the game rn and you basically said it was "worthless". Explain this...cmon, I'm waiting.

Edited by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

Change it so that it reduces an enemies health by 50%.  No other status does that, it's strategic, and it's a significant single proc damage.

That wouldn't make it any better, are you up to how the maths work in the game right now?

People would simply just run pure slash + weeping wounds and that's it, by the way, people already did that way before the patch while casuals where using viral + slash and diluting their slash procs.

The only thing blocking viral from being pure trash nowadays is the fact that it doesn't dilute slash anymore, because it increases damage by a lot. But with this terrible change you offered, you're not only suggesting for it to become trash again but it will dilute Slash even more, because it doesn't have 1/4 of the chance of proccing anymore. 

People would forget this exists and go back to pure slash builds, that's what would happen.

Edited by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

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On 2020-03-21 at 9:45 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

That wouldn't make it any better, are you up to how the maths work in the game right now?

People would simply just run pure slash + weeping wounds and that's it, by the way, people already did that way before the patch while casuals where using viral + slash and diluting their slash procs.

The only thing blocking viral from being pure trash nowadays is the fact that it doesn't dilute slash anymore, because it increases damage by a lot. But with this terrible change you offered, you're not only suggesting for it to become trash again but it will dilute Slash even more, because it doesn't have 1/4 of the chance of proccing anymore. 

People would forget this exists and go back to pure slash builds, that's what would happen.

Tongue in cheek there, kid vicious, a bit or sarcasm.  Apparently I was having a decided lack of clarity yesterday.

Gotta admit, though, it'd be unique and change the meta.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-03-21 at 9:38 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

You still didn't prove your point. It's one of the strongest melee mods in the game rn and you basically said it was "worthless". Explain this...cmon, I'm waiting.

It’s inconsistent as it relies on status procs to increase your weapon damage.

People like to y’all up how it stacks up to higher damage than Primed Pressure Point but completely ignore the fact that it starts off lower and that does negatively effect your overall damage output on an enemy.

It’s one of the rarest mods in the game yet gets completely outclassed by PPP and a 90% elemental mod.

Maybe if the new status stack also added to the damage increase it would actually be worth a damn.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

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3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s inconsistent as it relies on status procs to increase your weapon damage.

People like to y’all up how it stacks up to higher damage than Primed Pressure Point but completely ignore the fact that it starts off lower and that does negatively effect your overall damage output on an enemy.

It’s one of the rarest mods in the game yet gets completely outclassed by PPP and a 90% elemental mod.

Maybe if the new status stack also added to the damage increase it would actually be worth a damn.

That's a completely ignorant statement because since now you can stack more than 1 element per hit, that made CO even more powerful than it already was, and you don't need more than 2 tests in simulacrum to notice it. In real gameplay though, enemies are way too squishy and you'll rarely ever need a damage mod to be honest, but when tougher units appear at high levels and you will eventually have to hit them more than 2 or 3 times to kill them, CO proves itself much better than PPP.

Your points are extremely unrealistic, specially because combo builds themselves are meant for higher hit per second and not damage per second, that's why Kronen is the actual most broken melee in the game currently, the damage itself is low but since it has a very high hit rate it completely outclasses anything else.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Thrymm said:

Tongue in cheek there, kid vicious, a bit or sarcasm.  Apparently I was having a decided lack of clarity yesterday.

Gotta admit, though, it'd be unique and change the meta.

 

Yeah yeah say what you want, "change the meta". It doesn't matter what the meta is, this is mostly a PvE game, the only thing that matters is: what is useful, what is not. 

If you care so much about meta, this is not your place. You should play Street Fighters, Mortal Kombat, DB Fighter Z, any fighting game. A looter-shooter has no concern with meta gaming. 

I don't intend to sound rude or anything, but all that "change the meta" argumentation is always unvalidated sooner or later, if I didn't told you this someone would do it in my place. 

Edited by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX
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14 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

That's a completely ignorant statement because since now you can stack more than 1 element per hit, that made CO even more powerful than it already was, and you don't need more than 2 tests in simulacrum to notice it. In real gameplay though, enemies are way too squishy and you'll rarely ever need a damage mod to be honest, but when tougher units appear at high levels and you will eventually have to hit them more than 2 or 3 times to kill them, CO proves itself much better than PPP.

Your points are extremely unrealistic, specially because combo builds themselves are meant for higher hit per second and not damage per second, that's why Kronen is the actual most broken melee in the game currently, the damage itself is low but since it has a very high hit rate it completely outclasses anything else.

You need 200% status chance in order to take advantage of the double proc on the very first hit without having to rely on weeping wounds.

You’re still better off just procing Viral atleast once and hitting them with high crit.

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Posted (edited)

condition overload is capped at 3 stacks, and they have to be 3 different status effects, and it only affects base damage

that means it gives u 360% base damage but u have to land at least 3 status first, when the enemy should already be dead

even if u had 200% tatus, there is a high chance to proc the same element twice wich would only be 1 stack for condition overload not 2

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

condition overload is capped at 3 stacks, and they have to be 3 different status effects, and it only affects base damage

that means it gives u 360% base damage but u have to land at least 3 status first, when the enemy should already be dead

even if u had 200% tatus, there is a high chance to proc the same element twice wich would only be 1 stack for condition overload not 2

Condition is not capped at 3, this is old information. Before claiming anything, check your info.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-03-21 at 1:11 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So you want to Condition overload Viral and make it absolutely useless and never ever worth using for anything.

No

If it still did over 4x damage itself and more than 4x damage to bleed/burn/poison/gas ticks, how exactly would it be useless?

For that matter, how exactly is the most powerful melee mod in the game "useless"?

This aim of this post was to suggest a way for DE to resolve the problem they created, making nearly every weapon without Viral on it an intentional handicap (below level 500 or whatever), without DE inevitably reversing the viral buff and either putting it back to x2, or making it worse than that.

Currently it largely invalidates their whole armour/health modifiers system, so it's fairly certain that, once they have a lull in changes we have to swallow, they'll nerf it into the ground later on.

The goal of this suggestion was to was help guide them away from that.

Edited by TheArcSet

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dont nerf viral ffs.

buff other elements like blast instead

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On 2020-03-20 at 9:43 PM, Dragazer said:

the only decent one

Calling the best status currently in game "the only decent one" is your problem...Your baseline is weird...

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