Make Viral only increase Viral & proc damage, rather than nerfing the buff?

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

Calling the best status currently in game "the only decent one" is your problem...Your baseline is weird...

Because as I mentioned previously, gas and corrosive took severe nerfs after the rework. As my graph shows just buffing corrosive to 90% armor strip will have it outdmg viral past 1695 armor (lvl 42 corrupted heavy gunners) with the gap only increasing as you encounter more armor.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/idb4kwgpbk

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

8 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Because as I mentioned previously, gas and corrosive took severe nerfs after the rework. As my graph shows just buffing corrosive to 90% armor strip will have it outdmg viral past 1695 armor (lvl 42 corrupted heavy gunners) with the gap only increasing as you encounter more armor.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/idb4kwgpbk

Aye that's a neat site I didn't know I needed. Thanks!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, TheArcSet said:

If it still did over 4x damage itself and more than 4x damage to bleed/burn/poison/gas ticks, how exactly would it be useless?

For that matter, how exactly is the most powerful melee mod in the game "useless"?

This aim of this post was to suggest a way for DE to resolve the problem they created, making nearly every weapon without Viral on it an intentional handicap (below level 500 or whatever), without DE inevitably reversing the viral buff and either putting it back to x2, or making it worse than that.

Currently it largely invalidates their whole armour/health modifiers system, so it's fairly certain that, once they have a lull in changes we have to swallow, they'll nerf it into the ground later on.

The goal of this suggestion was to was help guide them away from that.

How is weapons killing enemy a problem?

if you don’t want to kill things go play animal crossing.

[TheArcSet]

On 2020-05-23 at 5:11 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

How is weapons killing enemy a problem?

if you don’t want to kill things go play animal crossing.

Seriously-_-.

Every weapon in the game kills enemies; you can kill enemies, by jumping near them, with the mining laser, or the joke meme flaming can-opener

and that before all enemies in the game received the recent nerf, to replace their armour with cardboard and their flesh with metallic tissue paper.

 

When, not using Viral, or instead an element that an enemy is supposed to have a 75% vulnerability to, actually becomes equivalent to leaving off mods or carrying an Extinguished Dragon-key, as a 'personal handicap', then it's clear that something has gone wrong and that DE will want to fix it at some point.

 

If all you care about is your kill count, may I suggest you take Saryn to Earth's endless defence.

That should give you everything you want out of Warframe.

Edited May 25, 2020 by TheArcSet

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

41 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

Seriously-_-.

Every weapon in the game kills enemies; you can kill enemies, by jumping near them, with the mining laser, or the joke meme flaming can-opener

and that before all enemies in the game received the recent nerf, to replace their armour with cardboard and their flesh with metallic tissue paper.

 

When, not using Viral, or instead an element that an enemy is supposed to have a 75% vulnerability to, actually becomes equivalent to leaving off mods or carrying an Extinguished Dragon-key, as a 'personal handicap', then it's clear that something has gone wrong and that DE will want to fix it at some point.

 

If all you care about is your kill count, may I suggest you take Saryn to Earth's endless defence.

That should give you everything you want out of Warframe.

Yeah sounds like you just hate killing enemies efficiently.

[TheArcSet]

On 2020-05-23 at 4:10 AM, Dragazer said:

Because as I mentioned previously, gas and corrosive took severe nerfs after the rework. As my graph shows just buffing corrosive to 90% armor strip will have it outdmg viral past 1695 armor (lvl 42 corrupted heavy gunners) with the gap only increasing as you encounter more armor.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/idb4kwgpbk

Are you sure about that threshold?
Assuming you're only dealing pure corrosive and viral (for simplicity)

1695 ferrite armour and 10 procs means they'll have 

(0.2*(1695*0.25))/(0.2*(1695*0.25)+300)= 22% damage reduction against corrosive.

So 100 damage will deal ~78.

Viral & 10 procs will have 84.9% damage reduction.

So 100 damage will deal 15.1*4.25*1.75= ~112.3.

I know there is a point where the threshold tips, but even for the rare heavily armoured units, I think it's a lot higher that you're suggesting.

I seem to recall Xlp3 calculated something between 3k-4k; so under sotie level for those rare units, but well above it for most normal ones; not to mentions how ferrite vs alloy would effect things.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by TheArcSet

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, TheArcSet said:

Are you sure about that threshold?
Assuming you're only dealing pure corrosive (for simplicity)

1695 ferrite armour and 10 procs means they'll have 

(0.2*(1695*0.25))/(0.2*(1695*0.25)+300)= 22% damage reduction against corrosive.

So 100 damage will deal ~78.

Viral & 10 procs will have 84.9% damage reduction.

So 100 damage will deal 15.1*4.25*1.75=112.3.

I know there is a point where the threshold tips, but even for the rare heavily armoured units, I think it's a lot higher that you're suggesting.

I seem to recall Xlp3 calculated something between 3k-4k; so under sotie leve for those rare units, but well above it for most normal ones.

 

 

On 2020-05-22 at 11:10 PM, Dragazer said:

As my graph shows just buffing corrosive to 90% armor strip will have it outdmg viral past 1695 armor (lvl 42 corrupted heavy gunners) with the gap only increasing as you encounter more armor.

The graph is showing what corrosive will be doing if DE buffed it to 90% armor removal instead of the 80% it has atm. I'm making the argument that its corrosive and gas that needs to be buffed back up to somewhere a bit closer to what they used to be before they got nerfed hard. 

[TheArcSet]

9 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

 

The graph is showing what corrosive will be doing if DE buffed it to 90% armor removal instead of the 80% it has atm. I'm making the argument that its corrosive and gas that needs to be buffed back up to somewhere a bit closer to what they used to be before they got nerfed hard. 

Ah, sorry, I missed that; my fault for reading the posts from the bottom up.

Still, by my calculations, that would still only give 87 corrosive damage vs ~112 pure viral; a 29% difference.

Were you accounting for the virals modifier on gineer-flesh, under the armour?

Also, just FYI, you can reach the -90% point by combining heat with corrosive; which can also help it ramp up much more quickly, though it takes up mod space.

Edited May 26, 2020 by TheArcSet

[(NSW)Matt-S]

Though, corrosive would still not be used. Viral works on all enemy types and buffs things like slash, and grineer are also weak to viral (the armoured targets...). 

The graph is a simple trap to make you think a certain way by omitting a lot of factors. 

Vast majority of people hate the faction mods for obvious reasons, buffing corrosive would just relegate it to that status, not make people use it. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by (NSW)Matt-S

[BRZZAFK]

wow. there's still people using PPP?

For the problem op said. It doesnt really matter any more since 9999 enermy melt down in seconds.

Edited May 28, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[(XBOX)Calliber]

Does viral need a nerf relative to other status effects, yes.  Does it matter in the current game state, no.  Even with a nerf high level enemies will still fall at the same rate for Vets, there will be no noticeable difference.  The only people this actually effects is mid-game players who are utilizing status effects on enemies who are not being cut down quickly.  Early/newbies normally don't have status builds working yet so they do see the change but it's minor since they are not consistently utilizing it.