Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Frost's Weakness


Arrynopolis
 Share

Recommended Posts

Warning, Frost player complaints incoming. 

 

I wanna start by saying that I love Frost. From the second I got this game (Four months ago?) I thought he was one of the coolest, and one of the most interesting. A caster tank with a focus on CC? It's amazing! And so I got him, and it was amazing, i loved it. But as we all know, at some point, you have to put a frame down and pick up another for Mastery's sake. So I moved on to the next tank, Rhino. And playing Rhino made me realize the weaknesses in Frost's kit. I know everyone wants to say that comparing two frames specialized for different situations, but I don't feel that they are. Let me explain.

 

Rhino is overall more useful than Frost. Hands down, nearly all the time. I won't deny that Frost is king in Grineer/Corpus defense and mobile defense, but that is the only area where he outclasses Rhino. And while on the outside it seems that Frost is a mage/tank hybrid, Rhino seems to have more mage/tank skills than Frost.

 

Freeze: Is alright on bosses/extremely important heavy enemies. However Rhino's charge (while still bad) will knock down

 

Iron Skin: is a shield. A relatively meaty shield that can be used in a pinch to avoid damage. Which is exactly something a tanky mage would use in a dire circumstance. It also boosts threat! Making enemies notice Rhino more while it's active. Meanwhile Frost has a Ice Wave, that does somewhat decent damage in a straight line. Which is just damage. No CC capabilities, no slow, no stun. 

 

Snow Globe is Frost's main ability, and frankly, the main reason anyone wants a frost on their team. An amazing ability, and can beautifully contend with Rhino's Roar. Gorgeous all around. The only issue is that it's the only ability in Frost's kit that would make anyone pick him over Rhino. I'll explain why in a second. 

 

Avalanche bothers me with how bad it is in comparison to stomp. It deals 1000 damage, over 15 meters, and freezes enemies for nearly 3 seconds. Rhino's Stomp deals 800 damage (not important) over 25 meters, and knocks enemies into the air for 8 seconds. The part that matters isn't the damage, Rhino can incapacitate enemies over 25 meters for 8 seconds.

 

So in recap: Frost has a single target freeze, a pure damage wave ability, an AoE shield, and an AoE damage ability, with minor CC. Rhino has an AoE knockdown teleport, a damage shield, an AoE damage buff, and a long lasting AoE knockup. When you think about it, who is the better tank? Just reading the descriptions, Rhino seems more like a mage than Frost does.

 

So how do you fix it?

 

I propose relatively small changes to Frost's kit, so that he can stand out more as a Mage Tank, and be as unique as he is marketed as being. 

 

Freeze: Either replace it with a different ability altogether, or make it AoE while reducing freeze duration. Yes it would weaken it's single-target lock-down ability, but it would allow it to affect more enemies, and eliminate more threats (albeit for less time). 

 

Ice Wave: The most obvious thing could be to give it a CC effect. I propose either giving it a slow effect to the targets it hits, or making it leave a solid impassible wall in it's path. I personally prefer the wall path, as it would introduce a new strategy to Frost's kit, letting him temporarily wall off an area with too many enemies, or separate enemies that are killing teammates too quickly. 

 

Snow Globe: I think it's fine as is, but i would love to see Frost gain some durability while inside the Globe, increasing his armor, health, or shields while in it, as he is the master of ice and all that. The Threat Generation from Iron Skin could also be applied to the ability, so that enemies focus him while inside of his globe.

 

Avalanche: I have two changes in mind. 1) If the damage stays the same, then perhaps make it leave behind a circular wall, similar to what I proposed for Ice Wave. It would allow him to completely wall off  areas where he would prefer to have his teammates safe, or perhaps keeping the pod safe in infested defense/mobile defense. 

 

Obviously my changes aren't perfect, but I do feel he has major problems, and isn't currently a good enough frame for me to pick over Rhino in tanking situations.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the Frost Wave change to Ice Wall. It's an ability I am waiting for since I started grinding any defense-like missions.

However, it would create an opportunity for Frost users to completely block other players from reaching other rooms (trolling). If such ability was ever implemented, I think it would be safer, if it came with some sort of Tribunal we have in LoL. Other than that, I would suggest that every map would be remodeled so you can always have an alternate path to enter every room (vents?) and I presume Devs "ain't got time fo' dat". I don't even want to mention players coming trough the impassable wall as a solution, because that would be incredibly ridiculous (such as Nova's gate thing - I hate that)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why his offensive capability is lacking is because his spells are mainly freeze based damage. Which do more damage against shields but less overall. Ice Wave already has a CC on it btw. It slows enemies that don't get killed by it.

 

I think honestly that Snowglobe should have a tradeoff. Like this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/108682-balance-suggestion-snowglobe-cutting-shields-in-half/ Currently Snowglobe might get nerfed, very possible that it might get a damage cap on it and I don't want this at all so I'm suggesting other ways to nerf/balance it like making it have a trade-off. You have superior defense from outside the globe but less from the inside.

 

Avalanche needs a slow upon finishing the cast. Since currently it lacks complete CC outside the channeling of the spell. Ice Wave has it's slow after an attack but Avalanche completely lacks that. Or it would need something else.

 

EDIT: I actually prefered Freeze to stay as its current single target ability but make it more reliable. It's extremely reliable/useful in solo missions but loses effectiveness soon after joining a party since people tend to break the 'stasis'/immobility by shooting at it. Or they should instead make the ability cheaper.

Edited by R3leaZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why his offensive capability is lacking is because his spells are mainly freeze based damage. Which do more damage against shields but less overall. Ice Wave already has a CC on it btw. It slows enemies that don't get killed by it.

 

I think honestly that Snowglobe should have a tradeoff. Like this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/108682-balance-suggestion-snowglobe-cutting-shields-in-half/ Currently Snowglobe might get nerfed, very possible that it might get a damage cap on it and I don't want this at all so I'm suggesting other ways to nerf/balance it like making it have a trade-off. You have superior defense from outside the globe but less from the inside.

 

Avalanche needs a slow upon finishing the cast. Since currently it lacks complete CC outside the channeling of the spell. Ice Wave has it's slow after an attack but Avalanche completely lacks that. Or it would need something else.

That's what I'm saying, my changes aren't the best, but in general i want a bit of extra CC on his skills, otherwise they're kinda outclassed by other similar abilities. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would help a lot if enemies that weren't killed outright by Avalanche remained frozen for a short time, similar to Freeze.

 

Alternatively, Avalanche could leave behind an icy surface on the floor where it was cast, causing enemies walking over it to be knocked-down.

Edited by Rauche
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would help a lot if enemies that weren't killed outright by Avalanche remained frozen for a short time, similar to Freeze.

 

Alternatively, Avalanche could leave behind an icy surface on the floor where it was cast, causing enemies walking over it to be knocked-down.

I like that last idea a lot actually. It'd be funny and functional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Freeze: Give the projectile a small AoE explosion when it hits an enemy or surface, encasing them in ice. Shooting or meleeing a frozen enemy will thaw them, but they will take x2-4 damage from the attack (making it a great compliment to sniper/DPH weapons).

 

Ice Wave: Give it a slight coning effect, nothing drastic, but enough to go from being a thin line to completely covering a small corridor/passage after 10-15m. Any enemies that aren't killed receive a slow down effect.

 

Snow Globe: Fine as is.

 

Avalanche: Perhaps to compensate for its smaller range, it could be a lingering ability rather than instant cast, like a snowstorm of sorts. Any enemy who is caught in the initial blast or walks into proximity will be damaged over time and frozen, and will take x2-4 damage from your next strike (as with freeze).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Freeze: Give the projectile a small AoE explosion when it hits an enemy or surface, encasing them in ice. Shooting or meleeing a frozen enemy will thaw them, but they will take x2-4 damage from the attack (making it a great compliment to sniper/DPH weapons).

 

Ice Wave: Give it a slight coning effect, nothing drastic, but enough to go from being a thin line to completely covering a small corridor/passage after 10-15m. Any enemies that aren't killed receive a slow down effect.

 

Snow Globe: Fine as is.

 

Avalanche: Perhaps to compensate for its smaller range, it could be a lingering ability rather than instant cast, like a snowstorm of sorts. Any enemy who is caught in the initial blast or walks into proximity will be damaged over time and frozen, and will take x2-4 damage from your next strike (as with freeze).

I love those ideas. Particularly freeze and Avalanches multiplier, it would be a good reason to use a sniper or a bow with a frost in the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll wait till armor 2.0 to see if I should complain about it, but right now all of Frost damage abilities become nearly useless vs enemies level 60 and higher. They still do full damage to Moa's, Ospreys, Light Infected, and a few other enemies, but after that point you are usually better off not even equipping them. If it wasn't for Snow Globe, Frost would be a complete joke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...