Limbo allows for agency over others gameplay in an unhealthy way

[dyewithasmile]

i was still STILL stopped from interacting with terminals... Still removed from the hack i was in the middle of... still allows for ridicule full amount of afk... please stop allowing for cyber bullying... i VOW i will spend Every spy sortie with limbo and abort all day until this Travesty of abuse is put to an end ... WHAT ELSE CAN I DO THIS IS MY 2000TH POST ON THIS

[Loza03]

I agree, but not really with the way you're saying it.

 

That aside, some automatic 'pop out of the rift' or rift immunity when interacting with objects would be appreciated. Allowing Limbo to still interact with objects, limiting ability to do this to other players, but without just letting him be invincible whilst doing so.

[Graavarg]

Try using the operator to interact...

[Pie_mastyr]

operator is rift immune as noted by @Graavarg

41 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

That aside, some automatic 'pop out of the rift' or rift immunity when interacting with objects would be appreciated. 

 

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

If you're complaining about other players then just play solo. Or find some people to play with that don't use Limbo. 

[AzureFlash]

Two or three years ago, I don't remember when exactly, I was doing a rescue mission in the grineer sea lab tileset. The one where you hack to lower the water and the hack pods until you find the one with the operative to rescue.

I had 7 out of 8 chevrons locked on this hack when this Limbo comes in, rifts me, mocks me for being slow at hacking, and redoes the hack himself. We ran out of time and failed the mission. He of course blamed it on anyone but himself. Limbo is perfect, and Limbo players are these flawless beings, don't you know? Learn to play him or you're just some unthinking maggot. That's what you'll be told if you say anything against Limbo.

Since then I've had several extremely bitter exchanges with Limbo players, both in and out of the game. Been warned in the forums, been warned in-game, abandonned my Reddit account because of the aftermath of toxic Limbo-related drama. I abort mission every time I see a Limbo. I will never sell Limbo Prime parts or relics. I will never like Limbo, even if he's completely reworked into something that has nothing in common with present day Limbo. Yes, my position is completely illogical, but I'm completely entrenched in it now. I will die a Limbo hater.

So go ahead, call me all the names you want, tell me Limbo's stasis is fixed now even though I read every patch note and know very well the history of changes brought to Limbo's stasis. I've never once complained about stasis specifically, but Limbo defenders keep bringing it up. That's the rough reality of dealing with Limbo players... they're the majority, and they are not above strawmanning and goalpost-moving you into oblivion ("just use the operator! you should be happy to take extra steps to do simple things in Warframe to satisfy the ego of Limbo!").

The very concept of a "void rift" breaks gameplay and teamplay. It makes it awkward to find a position to use any weapon, and to find targets with any weapon. Limbo forces the positioning and tactics of every other frame in the squad. You become, as OP said, robbed of all agency in gameplay. It allows Limbo to troll, to leech, to trivialize almost all content. His visual and sound effects put a stain on everything else. Hope you enjoy seeing everything colored, darkened and blurry, and having all your audio muffled and sounding like you're underwater. I can't imagine what that's like for people with thalassophobia or similar fears.

But please, tell me again how stasis is fixed, how the operator can interact with objects in the rift and how you can roll out of a rift (only to get sucked right back in by a Limbo who is doing it out of spite because you politely asked them to stop and they don't want to think about who they're targeting).

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

1) Its not the warframe's problem. Its the player who doesn't know how to play the game.

2) Don't be like that player and LEARN to play the game.

3) Use your operator when you hack stuff.

4) Stop playing spy missions in pubs. Only noobs do that.

Edited March 24, 2020 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Graavarg]

9 hours ago, AzureFlash said:

But please, tell me again how stasis is fixed, how the operator can interact with objects in the rift and how you can roll out of a rift (only to get sucked right back in by a Limbo who is doing it out of spite because you politely asked them to stop and they don't want to think about who they're targeting).

You are mixing things up. Toxic and/or troll player behaviour has nothing to do any specific warframe, weapon or color effects, that is behaviour coming from the player, not the equipment. There are also troll behaviour not depending on specific equipment, like taking and hogging the "key" in Syndicate Mobile Defense missions, essentially stopping the mission progress for the others while doing "one's own thing". And yes, some schmucks are using Limbo to troll missions and players, but put the blame on the player, where it belongs. Not on the equipment.

Also, some warframes have abilities that affect other warframes directly, many have abilities that affect other players indirectly. Frost showing off his balls (couldn't resist that one 😉) all over the map is one example, Volt 's forcing his speed buff on others is another, Loki's Switch Teleport a third and so on. There is no cure against Snow Globes (outside of Frost's 1) or Loki force-teleporting you, but you can get out of Volt's Speed by doing a backflip (the only time I'm doing backflips in the game) the same way you can roll "forward" out of the rift.

There are also some players that consider other players as "trolls" when they are simply using their warframes' abilities. Some hate Saryn (for emptying the map of enemies), some hate Vauban's Vortex, some hate Volt's Discharge, some hate Nyx's Mind Control, some even hate Nova for using her ult (Molecular Prime), need I go on? It can also get very specific, some hate Nekros' Shadows in certain colors, depending on the enemies & tileset (because they mistake them for enemies and try to kill them), some hate Gara's Mass Vitrify (glass wall) in certain colors (because you can't see through it) and some hate bright colors on Simulor. My general view of all such "haters" is simply that they are idiots. Making a "solid" glass wall could be considered "dumb", making a fuss about it is exponentially worse (=> "idiocy").

- - -

Limbo has a skill set no other warframe has. I use him for specific missions and goals when soloing, and in the clan he is a central part of some mission tactics/strategies. In my opinion Limbo is now in a good place with Stasis & Cataclysm, his most important abilities. I believe that is a general thing, since it has been a long time since I've encountered "Limbo hate" in game, or anyone leaving a mission when they see Limbo present.

Limbo's Banish is still problematic, since there is no way to avoid hitting all targets in the "cone of effect". This could be easily fixed by applying the current "press or hold"-ability handling, "press" would the same as now, but "hold" would allow you to shrink the cone down to a single line/point, which would allow you to rift a single target. Rifting a bunch of enemies is usually counter-productive, rifting the defense target is a way to "save" high-level defense missions or make squad mates using warframe abilities temporarily invulnerable (among other things). Such a change would have no effect on trolls using Banish to indiscriminately rift other players (and enemies), but it would remove a lot of the "unfortunate side effects" of Banish (being forced to rift everything within the cone of effect) and thus make Banish a lot more useful.

Rift Surge is... well, let's just say it remains a possibility to explore for Limbo aficionados.

- - -

You are basically saying that you consider Stasis not fixed because you don't like the current Stasis (and Limbo overall), and you don't like Limbo because of in-game trolls. I'll not get into the "there is an abort button"- or "play solo"-arguments, I will just say that you are wrong about Stasis. It was ok before the change and it is ok now, it wasn't changed because of "brokenness" but due to player feedback and the change worked.

Limbo is a unique and extremely important warframe, adding gameplay and tactics to the game that wouldn't otherwise exist. Wanting to change or remove such a part of the game only based on your own feelings about it seems... a bit excessive, maybe?

And finally, blaming good equipment for the faults of the idiots misusing it is illogical. Blame the idiots instead, that is where the problem is.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Graavarg

[PsiWarp]

Limbo has been a contraversal Warframe since the beginning, from when Banish can't be rolled out of, to Stasis stopping all projectiles effectively delaying gunplay, to Cataclysm map clearing with a double-tap due to insane damage scaling... he's greatly suffered (for being a Warframe of huge potential but infamous for his horribly solo-focused game mechanics) and been inflicting suffering on others for all of his multi-planar existence.

Going from the Rift Assassin to the Rift-Everything-and-put-the-enemy-on-Pause didn't solve anything for multiplayer experience.

The only thing changed for the better was allowing pickups collection and carrying in Cataclysm and if you bring the item into the Rift. That helped mission progress, not mission halting like denying console hacking or putting in the Mobile Defense terminal... christ sake, you can't activate Life Support Capsules if you are Riftbound, better hope you completed War Within or figure out if you're Banished or in a Cataclysm, wasting precious seconds of air before you run out.

Just because there are workarounds to bad design, doesn't automatically make it good design.

[Robolaser]

An experienced and good-willing limbo can make some missions much easier and relaxed.

If/when a limbo becomes too disruptive however, just politely tell him in chat. If he doesn't want to cooperate, and you can't bear it, just leave. If he's clearly and repeatedly bullying, replies with insults or flamebaits etc, then record him/take a screenshot and report him to customer support.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Robolaser