Jump to content
[DE]Bear

Warframe Revised: Part 3 Feedback Megathread

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Radiofloyd said:

Viral still invalidates most, if not all changes to status. I think it really does need to be brought back down to achieve balance.

Gas is also overly weak, and needs a much higher damage rate, or to work similarly to how it used to (the clouds proc gas dot, without creating a new cloud, for example). As it stands, lightning damage is better than gas in every case, and that's bad. 

I also think impact really should raise the threshold for parazon mercy, a bit at least, as it's still really hard to get the enemy to it. I think that could create a new interesting niche for it.

yeah right, lets change everything again just when we formated all our equipment for it... great idea... will you forma all our stuff and level it too, since you asked for it?

Edited by fr4gb4ll
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, fr4gb4ll said:

yeah right, lets change everything again just when we formated all our equipment for it... great idea... will you forma all our stuff and level it too, since you asked for it?

If you're smart about the way you build things, there's really very little change ever required. I would easily adapt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Radiofloyd said:

If you're smart about the way you build things, there's really very little change ever required. I would easily adapt.

and i would say: stop complaining about every little change - if it's indeed too powerfull (which it isn't in my book), then DE will do fine with just 'adjusting' the values a bit. though that might still lead to viral being... well, not crap again, since it never was, but to not being the one solution to everything - but that's only in the heads of all those min/max banker anyway...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

and i would say: stop complaining about every little change - if it's indeed too powerfull (which it isn't in my book), then DE will do fine with just 'adjusting' the values a bit. though that might still lead to viral being... well, not crap again, since it never was, but to not being the one solution to everything - but that's only in the heads of all those min/max banker anyway...

Viral only needs a major numbers change. Not a complete overhaul... The issue right now is that viral, the generalist status proc is better than everything else in the game that's relevant, and if it isn't, heat is the equivalent of many corrosive procs, so corrosive really is unneeded. Gas is also entirely dead. 120dmg gas clouds on level 80 heavy gunners is simply not acceptable. Specially if the source of damage is a daikyu. If gas isn't aoe, then it's just a worse version of every other dot effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viral and heat definitely need to be toned down.

Warframe as a game is so entirely dependent on killing things fast that procs such as "reduced accuracy" and "make enemies shoot their allies" end up being entirely pointless when you can just take a proc that makes you do more damage and kill things faster, especially something as ridiculously overtuned as those two procs.

Is there any reason to not use viral and heat on every single weapon that can apply status at this point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vincent said:

Viral and heat definitely need to be toned down.

Warframe as a game is so entirely dependent on killing things fast that procs such as "reduced accuracy" and "make enemies shoot their allies" end up being entirely pointless when you can just take a proc that makes you do more damage and kill things faster, especially something as ridiculously overtuned as those two procs.

Is there any reason to not use viral and heat on every single weapon that can apply status at this point?

Heat is actually ok, assuming we buff corrosive a little bit (say 90% armor strip at 10 stacks) and viral is no longer boosting heat dot to oblivion.

Radiation could still make for a niche with a major damage buff. 

Blast isn't supposed to be modded into, it's one of the innate damages, so it's ok that it isn't super useful by itself (as long as it isn't a hindrance).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Radiofloyd said:

Heat is actually ok, assuming we buff corrosive a little bit (say 90% armor strip at 10 stacks) and viral is no longer boosting heat dot to oblivion.

Radiation could still make for a niche with a major damage buff. 

Blast isn't supposed to be modded into, it's one of the innate damages, so it's ok that it isn't super useful by itself (as long as it isn't a hindrance).

Heat does a little too much IMO:

  1. It strips armour better than corrosive for a lot of weapons
  2. It's the only DoT that doesn't have seperate stacks, so it just stacks indefinitely with the duration constantly refreshing

It's a bit strong for a single (and not combined) element.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

status-vulnerable liches are making some weapons a lot more useful against them. this is actualy excelent, I can FINALLY be creative in how I fight those badasses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Vincent said:

Heat does a little too much IMO:

  1. It strips armour better than corrosive for a lot of weapons
  2. It's the only DoT that doesn't have seperate stacks, so it just stacks indefinitely with the duration constantly refreshing

It's a bit strong for a single (and not combined) element.

Gas also stacks like that, and I do guess maybe it should be nerfed to 30 or 35% armor strip. The DoT on heat, though is between very well balanced and weak from my testing, so I wouldn't move it one bit 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
В 25.03.2020 в 01:23, [DE]Bear сказал:

5. Foundry Crafting Time Change:
In an effort to help maintain some building consistency, we have reduced the build time for Forma, Orokin Catalysts, Orokin Reactors, and Exilus Adaptors to 23 hours (as opposed to 24) as per player request.

Why: 
When building Forma or another similar item, having a 24-hour limit meant that players who signed on at a regular time would see some delays in when an item was ready. We wanted to be respectful of a player’s playing time, and by making it 23 hours, they can grab their completed item and start another build without upsetting their routine. P.S don’t forget about the Mobile app! 

it would be nice to add a crafting line, 23 hours is certainly good, but tired of crafting one item (for example, a form)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mercies should be more prominent and relevant. Increase the amount of health required to use them, as enemies are just one button click away from dying when it is ready.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)c0mbatw0mbat_87 said:

this all looks amazing but warframe crashes before I can even load into the game for the last three weeks. Rip me

you should check the "EE.log" as well as the 'Launcher.log" about the reason for the crash. if that don't give any lead to the why, see if your graphic cards driver are updated and running correctly, if the card isn't overclocked (or boosted like some manufacturer like to name the automatically oc'ing) and also it's temperature isn't running to high, forcing it to 'downclock' and thus often crashing the game. another logfile to check would be the windows evenlogs, especially the 'system tab of it - do so right after a crash and see if windows logged some error. another potential troublemaker can the PSU (your computers powersupply unit) - if you running at the upper max of what it can supply, there might be tiny fluctuations in some of the voltage-lines which then let the card or even the whole system crash. another reason for warframe to crash (i have this with 3 different nvidia cards so far) can be due to an illigal opcode being send which forces a crash of the driver (this, you would be shown in the windows event log). i managed to minimize this problem by running the game in 'fullscreen'-window mode or in borderless mode... instead of crashing every 15-20 minutes it now only happens once every few weeks. last but least, check if any programs running in the background (malicious or normal ones) and if you use any overlay program (if using steam, beside that one) like discord or any recording/benchmarking software, deactivate them for now and see if they are the cause. if so, update them or reinstall them, activate them again and check if the problem is solved.

the location of warframes log files are: "c:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Local\Warframe\"

the windows event logs you can open by either crawling thourgh the abbysmal setting menues of windows (10 in particular) or just by typing "event" in the open windows-start-menu - the name is "event view".

if overclocking is the issue, try any programs like the MSIafterburner (yes, works well for any other manufacturer too and both mainlines of GPUs)

as for the PSU, that's a bit tricky to get at - id you don't happen to have an oscilloscope at hand to 'log' the voltages over time - one thing i can say you though, all the programs which allow you to read the bios voltage values are of little to no help even those who offers to log them over time... if a crash happens it usually crashes the system long before those progs can write any entry or, are to short that, before a new set of values is written, they jumped back to normal... a pain in the arse. but, what you can do is some little math: add up what the major parts of your computer  use on the different voltage lines and compare this with what the PSU specs tell as max for each line. if you near the top-values of your PSU, consider buying a more powerfull one as replacement.

as for checking after wanted or unwanted software, use microsofts/sysinternals 'autoruns' program (downloadable from microsoft technet site - or just google for sysinternal suite, this will get you there) for legit software that eats up any resources and run in the background (be wary though  of what you disable, if unsure, google what it is before deactivating it - you can always reactivate it via the same program if you didn't outright deleted the start entry). for 'unwanted' software, best do a clean scan from a bootable dives (e.g. usb-stick) with a antivirus software, running an up-to-date definition file).

ofc, warframe itself vould be at fault, so a file-verification (VIA THE LAUNCHER!!! not from steam, if you values your sanity ^^)  also, you might want to check if the drive you have installed the game on has no issues (this is a time consuming procedure, so do this when you leave your rig for some hours doing any RL-stuff ^^)

hope that helps

cheers!

Edited by fr4gb4ll
me, being an idiot ^^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-03-24 at 1:23 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Each stack of Impact Status increases the chance of a Parazon Finisher move by 10%

You guys are marvelous, thank you. 😃

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey since we got that new console that lets us edit our railjack in the floatilla can we get one of those added to our orbiter. make it a quest line thing and cost something more expensive thats fine just let us at least manage our wreckage from our orbiter so we don't have to go through like 2 or 3 loading screens just so we can keep doing the missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

permanent vasca virus on kavats fixed when?  It's been an issue since last year and it's now April and it still hasn't been fixed.  Ridiculous

Titania prime equipped with her noble animation causes her to be much slower than normal while she's "sprinting" and walking/floating around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t need to give any feedback because the moment I knew that I would be collecting cards from low level missions and putting them in an order to face off against a bullet sponge enemy that was meant to be engaging and a challenge to defeat was the moment I knew that the whole update was doomed.

Furthermore scarlet spear is a mobile defence with sentients.

Even Further-Furthermore, the problems this game has run deep, adding micro mechanics for individual enemy types for Grendel to eat so that he doesn’t trivialise all the enemies and the mission probably means that *it wasn’t a good idea to make a warframe with those abilites* instead you should be working on DAMAGE 3.0 and perhaps a new combat system entirely, where our core characters aren’t caught in limbo between nuking and crowd controlling infinitely, or having our abilities disabled, making the mission disengaging and the mods we farmed for worthless.

(Because why rank up a squishy frame when you can’t use abilities, it’s just you and your small health bar against the world, and why rank up a squishy frame to nuke entire rooms when it’s boring and trivialising.) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Suggestion:  Stop making mega threads and actually read and respond to the individual threads people are making on very important issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly like Revisited stuff in general, but I may not always agree with the changes made... like Gas.

But, revisited content, changing how stuff works a bit, balance changes, etc.. are my favorite patches because I enjoy the gameplay and having toys that don't suck means I can have more fun, but I also like making strong builds and this gives me more options.


Y'all need to make all IPS damage similar to Slash in effect, but only ideal against one faction.

This will buff a lot of weapons from "trash tier" to "Wow, this is great against X faction!" and give more variety and allow easier balancing, hopefully, because Slash dominance is a HUGE problem for the game balance and variety.

Grineer should be weak to Puncture (150%) -> Impact (100%) -> Slash (50%)
Infested should be weak to Slash (150%) -> Puncture (100%) -> Impact (50%)
Corpus should be weak to Impact (150%) -> Slash (100%) -> Puncture (50%)

So to explain briefly using one faction: Corpus, logic being shields have a large surface area so impacts against it would drain more power, electronics tend to be sensitive to shock, and their ballistic soft armor not protecting from Impacts at all, some against Slash and a lot against Puncture because like Soft Body armor today it catches the bullet like a net.


Basically, I think a Rock Paper Scissors approach to overall balance in factions and weapons and frames against factions, is a good idea; simple but effective and encourages more diversity and is easier to balance because of rules.

 

Bane Mods should be changed to reduce faction damage resistances to that IPS type. This pulls back Power Creep and allows people to brind their favorites more often.

Example: If say.. Slash is ideal for Infested (150%), okay for Corpus (100%), and crap against Grineer (50%, they wear tons of hard armor, duh!) than putting a Bane of Grineer would take the weapon from half damage to 100% or normal damage and a Primed Bane mod would take it to 125% or something.


Armor... declutter: each faction gets one type and only 1 type, but the intensity of it differs by enemy type or rank in the case of elite and boss-types. The intensity of the armor will be colorized to a standard across all factions. Probably 3 tiers.

Armor should probably influence CC types and their effectiveness, making a way for you to allow for more Status based stuff to shine without trivializing as much.

The armor should also reduce frame powers and weapon damage types, but not as much if any if they keep to the RPS design and bring good choices, than they will hardly notice. Nullifiers should be modified as a result.

 

As it stands, each faction has their scaling survival gimmick more or less figured out: Grineer, Armor. Corpus, Shields. Infested, Health and Speed. Sentient, Adapting.

I propose some tweaking to Sentient: They should be a blend of all the factions due to RPS theme and should be in the "middle" of the triad of factions, so something like: 25% Armor, 25% Shield, 25% Health+Speed, and then their Adapting, but probably toned down.

 

Elemental mod blends should be made into their own single card, but have a limit of 2 elemental cards in a weapon for balance, no "Rainbow" builds like in ancient Warframe days but still allows people to make the combinations they want and need.
This is crucial for balancing a lot of the weapons you have now so we don't have as many "Trash Tier" because of optimal damage types that are only possible on certain weapons.

 

I have had ideas last year for putting the Elemental mods into a RPS layout that makes sense and easy to remember, but I kept running into issues of elemental combinations breaking the pattern and having a odd number or whatever, as I recall I added Void Damage elemental mod to fix that bit but didn't drill down and solve the re-shuffle and honestly gave up because I knew I was wasting my time, because I didn't think Digital Extremes genuinely listened anymore.

But to give the gist:  I had the idea to make the current elemental system easier to understand and remember by following a formula, like that if Toxin was the base mod for countering a faction's scaling, i.e. armor (corrosive), shields (magnetic -- problem, no toxin), health (viral -- problem, no heat)... then you add-on the damage element good for a specific faction, like Heat for Infested, would yield an anti-infested elemental and you didn't need to reference a Wiki to do it once you know the simple formula.

There was also a RPS Faction based AOE Damage element.
So, Explosive best against Infested, Radiation against Grineer (Would be changed from Confuse to a AOE damage), Gas against Corpus (a Nanite Gas would bypass shields and get into machinery).

 

Back to weapons: We IMO should be changes here also. Weapon Mastery rank should matter, but I think you really missed out on how Rivens work and their function.
Rivens, in my view, should be to make MR 1 weapons somewhat as good as MR 12 weapons.
They should at higher MR likely just make the weapon more comfortable, reload speed, magazine capacity, stuff like that and not insane damage.
Why? Because 1) Power Creep/Game Balance, 2) Reward and Respect player weapon investment, 3) More options is better...and 4) Waiting around for an objectively better version of a weapon is annoying and is off-putting.

This means Rivens don't get balanced based on popularity...but MR rank. So, you know when you invest in a weapon its viable forever and if you buy a Riven its not going to suddenly get nerfed hard.

Then, you can create a balance framework. When I worked on Marvel Heroes' White List, we balanced characters based on specific test bosses in their version of Simulacrum and their time to kill that enemy.

That was good, but then they came up with a design framework for balance that sped up their balancing. Their framework to help determine the base stats of an ability based on if it was Single target short range, single target long range, cone attacks, PBAOE, melee AOE, ranged AOE, etc.. and then from there it was tweaked until it felt good and was balanced.

The goal was to make everything keep its uniqueness but ensure nothing sucked either, and it worked very well and the game did well with those changes... and I think Warframe could and should do similar for weapons and you can see elements of this already, but doesn't seem to be as rule based.

 

Also, for Railjack, I was thinking maybe you need to maybe make Ship Hazards scale... if you ignore a Fire, it increases a tier, with 3 tiers, and the higher the tier the worse it becomes.

Railjack needs a lot more UI work done, like for the ship to indicate what is going on, where and why, even remotely... there needs to be intruder alert UI element especially.
You need to give the players the info they need to handle situations, and if you do that, you can make the situations more interesting and dangerous, and incorporate a lot of cool elements we see in shows and such.

I personally can't wait to see Railjack in a few years from now, I like space stuff and want to crew a ship with other players and wish more games had stuff like that... but yeah, you need to go back and fix Warframe's core game some... after 7 years, y'all need it... and we the community are more than happy to help, because we love the game also and have invested a lot of money as well as our time, so obviously we don't want the game to die... its time we got real with each other and work this out like a family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need:

1. Add chat-command to send trade in chat  /m  ("market"), it works one-time and delete message despite the result

/m WTS %weapon%

  1.1 Add bigget timer for it like 150seconds

  1.2 Give silence version not to swap your chat, if you sell only in bazar or chatting with friends   /ms (silence market)

/ms WTS %weapon%

 

2. Add FORMA smile
🙂 in chat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I got a couple weapons from shotguns to pistols to rifles and so on that have pretty high status effect (18% up to 90% for Kuva Kohm). After seeing the status reworks I thought this is great, I'll be able to revive these weapons and do something useful with them.

Fast forward to now: Viral+ heat is King. Corrosive+heat is king. Hunter Muntions is still king. Little has changed in any meaningful way. Now maybe I am not using the right weapons and someone could tell me of a good weapon with magnetism and gas that just absolutely kills against every faction but right now I haven't found any of that among my sets. Neither did going for an electric build, toxin build, prove useful.

 

What I feel is holding some of these back is the 6 sec timer which seems to be tied to each individual status proc. I could stack up 30 toxins and by the time I stopped about half has faded away. This doesn't feel effect but what is even worse is that having such a high stack does nothing beneficial. It does not seem to do more damage at least not significantly enough. With the Kuva Kohm I could reach 100 procs of Heat and it does only 100s in damage against lvl 100 corrupted grineer. Seemingly it doesn't increase in damage at all with additional procs no matter how many you can stack up. Neither does the timer Heat procs stay longer.

For Gas, that 10x cap is killing it. The status focus weapons I have can reach that 10x cap without issue. So much so I end up doing crit builds anyway, because of the status damage is not effective or helpful.

 

Solution: Remove 10x cap from any DOT themed proc. Make each additional proc effective and useful like slash procs are. They bleed so effectively it is insane that nothing else come close to this. They don't have to be as good as slash procs but when I am building my status weapons with the same crit builds as my crit weapons, we got a problem.

Make Magnetism jam weapons of enemies and spread like gas so it is more useful outside of killing corpus troops. Also have it last longer with additional procs. I know Magnetism is meant to be the opposite of Corrosive but Grineer are still so tanky compared to the Corpus that building for Grineer troops is just the better strategy.

Make Electric proc stronger the more enemies are in close proximity to each other (idea is: current surges back and forth, stronger each time)

Make Toxin cause the enemies to spit up green goo like they are sick because they are. There is brief stun animation for Heat and Electric but not for Toxin or Gas.

Make Gas have them get into coughing fits. Have the corpses of those killed by Gas procs continue to release gas for an extended time in proportion to the number of procs you got on it.

 

Finally to counter these changes: Create medic units that can cleanse huge groups of enemies off of status effects and maybe even provide a temporary immunity to the group they healed. Or you know... smarter AI to avoid that Gas cloud and pile of bodies underneath it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gas, Blast and Magnetic are still undertuned after the revisions, and while they might function as intended, I don't believe that DE's goal of build diversity is being met in this regard. Let's deal with Gas & Blast first.

Problems:
• Gas is only strong against weak Infested which is not necessary to build against.
• Gas is only strong against 1 faction, while the more dominant elements are strong against multiple factions.
• Armor is still a big deal after revisions. Corrosive, Radiation and Heat, which ignore/strip armor, will always get first consideration.
• Infested health needs to provide an obstacle/challenge that would take priority over armor. At the same time, Swarm Mutalist MOAs should no longer spread armor.
• Fossilized Infested should not be weakest to Corrosive, which is already a powerful element that is effective against armor, Grineer units and Sentients.
• Viral is overtuned, negating the need to specialize for Infested.

Possible solutions:
• Some Infested are already 50% resistant against Viral. To curb the power of Viral while staying true to Infested, add this 50% Viral resistance to Infested Flesh and Fossilized.
• Remove 75% Corrosive weakness from Fossilized.
• To promote Blast usage, increase Blast weakness for Fossilized from 50% to 75%.

More problems:
• However, while making these balance considerations, it doesn't take long to realize that another big problem remains: Gas, Blast and Heat all compete for the same Heat element. Even if Gas becomes the premier element for dealing with Infested, it can neither combo with Blast nor Heat. Instead, the choices for Gas are Cold, Electricity and Magnetic. None of these are effective against the Infested. Electricity makes little thematic sense and already has a purpose against Corpus and Sentient enemies; thus, Cold is probably the better choice for rebalancing. Instead of being weak to Heat, the Infested should be weak to Cold. This allows Gas to pair with Cold.
• Unfortunately, this does not solve the problem where Gas is still only weak against weak Infested. Player would probably choose to mod for Blast instead, in order to combat elite Infested. This might be fine, but we run into the same problem where Blast uses Heat. Blast can combo with Corrosive, Toxin and Electricity. If we were to apply the change above with Corrosive, then this means that none of these elements are good against the Infested either. In this case, the rebalance with Cold does not work, as Cold becomes part of Blast.

Taking a step back:
• No matter how you try to rearrange the pieces, they do not fit. Balance-wise, taking the bigger picture into consideration, Gas does not fit as an anti-Infested element. Before the revision, Gas was in a good place versus the Corpus, and it could combo well with either Electricity or Magnetic. Gas had a strong niche.
• Let us suppose we put Gas back as an element that is strong versus the Corpus. That would leave Corrosive + Heat, Viral + Heat and Corrosive + Blast as the best combinations against the Infested. In this case, let's apply the Corrosive change I proposed, where it no longer applies to Fossilized. As a result, only Heat and Blast are strong versus the Infested. Again, Heat is not a good match for Blast, and the remaining elements are Toxin and Electricity. Which should it be? Let's suppose that Gas takes the place of Toxin as the premier element versus the Corpus. That means Toxin no longer has a place, and is well-suited to be placed instead as a replacement for Heat against the Infested. It also makes sense as the Infested are biological.

New solutions:
• Gas replaces Toxin for Corpus. Gas goes through Shields; Toxin no longer does. Flesh becomes weak vs Gas.
• Infested & Infested Flesh becomes weak vs Toxin, no longer weak vs Heat.
• Fossilized becomes resistant to Viral, no longer weak vs Corrosive, and weaker vs Blast.

• Optimal combo for Infested becomes Blast + Toxin. However, Infested might still lack defenses requiring specialization.
• Optimal combo for Corpus becomes Gas + Magnetic. However, Magnetic still has problems we must address.

Addressing Infested defenses:
• The main defenses of the Infested currently comes from Ancient Healers and Swarm Mutalist MOAs. As they are both weak against Corrosive, that used to be the main tool used to fight the Infested. Unfortunately, Viral has taken that spot. Now, once Fossilized becomes resistant to Viral (and neutral to Corrosive), it might make enough of a difference to switch to Blast. In other words, no changes beyond the "new solutions" have to be made. If Viral is still too strong, 75% Viral resistance vs Fossilized might work.
• Swarm Mutalist MOAs provide Ferrite Armor to other Infested. This needs to change. Other players have suggested increased healing or regeneration, perhaps similar to what Ancient Healers do. Perhaps Toxin's status effect could slow/halt this healing.

Addressing the Magnetic problem:
• If Shields can be bypassed entirely with any element, be it Gas or Toxin, it removes the need for an element that is strong against Shields.
• Even if Shields cannot be bypassed, the armor beneath those Shields often cause a bigger problem than the Shields, due to damage reduction.
• Even if the armor beneath the Shields is not a problem, only Corpus enemies have Shields, making it inconvenient/expensive to build/mod weapons specialized for dealing with this obstacle. Shield Gating has been an attempt at making shields more powerful, but it still does little to address the problems above and make Magnetic important enough to use.
• For Raknoids, there has been an attempt at adding a huge amount of Shields to enemies, but it still does not make Magnetic useful due to Gas and Toxin. This means that no matter how high Shields are and how powerful Shield Gating is, Magnetic is still unimportant.
• In short, Magnetic cannot coexist balance-wise with an element that bypasses Shields.

Possible solutions:
• Remove Magnetic from Corpus balance entirely, so that it is no longer strong versus Shields. This leaves Gas + Electricity as the optimal combo against Corpus, which makes sense.
• Make Magnetic a weakness of the Sentients and the Eidolons, instead of Corrosive or Radiation as it currently stands. The Sentients deserve a different armor or health type as they are a different faction entirely. This could simply be called Robotic Armor. Magnetic could then pierce this armor the same way Corrosive and Radiation do to Ferrite and Alloy respectively.
• Sometimes Sentients are made of Flesh, other times Robotic. Perhaps, it is best to combine the two into a new element called Robotic Flesh. Sounds odd, but creepy at the same time. As Heat is already powerful due to its armor stripping status, maybe it's a good idea balance-wise to make Robotic Flesh weak vs Toxin.

Remaining problem:
• Viral + Heat is still strong vs Corpus. This might be fixed by scaling up shields to further incentivize Gas further or making Robotic resistant vs Viral, which is thematic.

Current balance (excluding Hunter Munitions & IPS):
• vs All (status/fast): Viral + Heat
• vs All (crit/slow): Corrosive + Heat
• vs Eidolon/boss: Radiation + Cold
• vs Corpus: Toxin
• vs nothing: Gas, Blast, Magnetic

Final balance:
• vs Infested: Blast + Toxin
• vs Grineer (status/fast): Viral + Heat
• vs Grineer (crit/slow): Corrosive + Heat
• vs Grineer/Corpus elite/boss: Radiation + Cold
• vs Corpus: Gas + Electricity
• vs Corrupted: Corrosive + Blast
• vs Sentient: Magnetic + Toxin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Gas is only strong against weak Infested which is not necessary to build against.

Partially false. Gas is very strong against Infested Demolishers who have a large enough health pool for the damage type to be relevant. We agree though, that gas damage is completely irrelevant vs every other possible enemy type, except the odd lich who's vulnerable to gas damage.

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Armor is still a big deal after revisions. Corrosive, Radiation and Heat, which ignore/strip armor, will always get first consideration.

"Armor is still a big deal" => Is that really a problem? Just calling out, you're also missing Cold and Puncture, which have bonuses vs infested sinew and alloy armor. All damage types effective against some type of armor will ignore a percentage of that armor and then deal more damage against it. Assuming the wiki is accurate. 

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Infested health needs to provide an obstacle/challenge that would take priority over armor.

THIS is the main issue here. Let's go ahead and get this out the way, no amount of tinkering with the damage amounts will matter at all unless the enemies have enough health such that IT MATTERS what damage type you use. A level 120 ancient healer has 47,307.46 fossilized health. My full build corrosive fulmin with 2.5 multishot does a little over ~15,000 damage in 1 shot x2 or x3 depending on if the third shot comes out. This is also before hunter munitions comes into play.

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

At the same time, Swarm Mutalist MOAs should no longer spread armor.

They spread ferrite armor. Doesn't that just mean the moas are making the rest of the infested vulnerable to corrosive damage even more? Still completely irrelevant; see the above point.

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Viral is overtuned

I personally think the rest of the game simply isn't up to standard ever since the damage/armor/shield rework. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED the rework in bringing the armor and shields more in line with each other. That's a very good step 1. Now to make sure every damage type has a place in the base game. Viral is fine as is imo, it's the enemies and the other damage types that need a lift.

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Possible solutions: ... ... ...

These are interesting and I'm down for making both making viral irrelevant vs infested, and making fossilized (read: ancients) weak to blast and neutral to corrosive. You don't need to increase the blast damage, just remove the corrosive weakness and increase the health. I'd also say make all infested health and armor 80% resistant to viral damage. Keep in mind, the viral status effect STILL increases all damage to health. I'd even go as far as to say make the infested immune, or at least partially resistant to the viral status effect. I think it makes thematic sense that you can't make a disease sick. In the same vein, I think all infested should have ~50% reduction vs toxin as well, not just fossilized.

13 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Unfortunately, Viral has taken that spot.

I disagree. This goes back to the first point about infested NOT HAVING ENOUGH HP FOR DAMAGE TYPES TO MATTER. The only infested that do are the demolishers and they're immune to a bunch of status effects, including viral. People are not choosing to run viral against infested because it's the best, but because it's best vs everyone else and still 'good enough' vs infested.

14 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Swarm Mutalist MOAs provide Ferrite Armor to other Infested. This needs to change

See above point. Nothing about infested damage types matter gameplay wise until they have enough hp for them to matter.

14 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Addressing the Magnetic problem... ... ...In short, Magnetic cannot coexist balance-wise with an element that bypasses Shields.

Yes it can. I think there's still enough space in corpus and even sentients for enemies who are purely shields with no health (corpus Archons when?), OR like the demolysts whose health can't be damaged until their shields are down. Now you have a faction who are split between enemies who are weak to things like viral+electric (electric rips shields while viral stacks prep health for more damage), radiation+cold (the Bursas have alloy armor), pure magnetic (heavy shield enemies), pure toxin (fleshbags), corrosive+cold (armored enemies with shields). Lots of good options here.

14 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Possible solutions: ... Sentients....

Heck no. Emphatic no. Sentients as a whole are thematically meant to be adapting to your damage. Just because the current sentients we have are 'mostly' ferrite and robotic doesn't mean they all will be or should be. Plenty of space for fleshy / shieldy sentients too. There's already at least 1 flesh + shield sentient in the Brachiolyst.

No need to do anything absurd here, just bring gas damage back to it's previous iteration. Then keep grineer having -50% damage vs gas, since they have neutral resistance vs toxin, and keep the light infested having weakness to gas since now all infested are very resistance vs toxin. Gas damage would have a place where the damage bad but the status is neutral (grineer), the damage is neutral but the status is great (corpus), and the damage is good but the status is bad (infested). That would be an interesting place for gas to be in my opinion.

14 hours ago, (NSW)Joewoof said:

Viral + Heat is still strong vs Corpus.

I don't think heat should be strong vs corpus at all, but viral I think is fine for their fleshy enemies. That makes sense. Viral + Electric in my opinion should be the general catchall vs corpus. At least according to the wiki, electric procs and heat procs do the exact same amount of damage. Heat just strips armor while electric stuns.

 

I like the thought put into it, though I disagree with some parts of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...