Jump to content
[DE]Connor

Titania Prime: Riven Disposition Update Plans

Recommended Posts

so why can't riven disposition changes happen at the start of every quarter/three months?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ikusias said:

No riven changes are based on utter BS and spitting on players time and money

- Prime weapons getting worse disposition than their knockoff versions is plain stupid;

- dispositions so low that a riven is actually worse than a regular corrupted mod are insulting;

- some stats  are still missing from riven poll: ammo conversion, area of effect, accuracy, most acolite mods effects

- no changes to reroll costs or any form of mitigation of the crazed RNG pertaining rivens

- DE still crapping on players inventories by changing what is not theirs!

- LET DISPOSITION ON INVENTORY AND EQUIPPED ITEMS ALONE! Update it only in case of resale or reroll!

Yes lower the roll cost.
Add a new menu for our duplicate mods to be able to sell them for Kuva, at my MR level I DONT need Credits or Endo but always need Kuva.
Adding that menu option would be awesome.

Edited by Slayer-.
typo: left out [need]
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One bug I still noticed in the game is that my kavat is still infected with the vasca virus even after I use the cure it goes away but when I complete the mission my kavat spawns back in with the virus 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Ikusias said:

LET DISPOSITION ON INVENTORY AND EQUIPPED ITEMS ALONE! Update it only in case of resale or reroll!

This would be really good.

Putting 6-7 forma into a build that then get wrecked by a dispo change is "not fun" and definitely "not rewarding". I couldn't give flying f*ck about riven trade & prices, but MY build on MY weapon with MY riven shouldn't change. An easy and logical way to solve this would be a mechanism allowing players to "lock" or "bind" a riven => freeze it's current values, make it untradeable (while "locked"/"bound") & free up it's general riven storage slot while "bound" to a specific weapon. I would be ok with this being a one-way process (no mechanism to "unlock"/"unbind" a riven and put it in a riven slot as tradeable/rollable again), but it would function just as well as a two-way process.

Such a mechanism would be glorious, at least for me it would mean a lot of incentive to play around with all the weapons weapons & their rivens = an incentive to play MORE WARFRAME.

Edited by Graavarg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a weapon with a riven is overpowered because of the riven disposition, then no you shouldn't keep it, that just spits on every player without one, for your sake.

However, many of the disposition changes are absolutely nonsense, like the repeated (Vaykor) Hek disposition buffs for example, when it's never been a bad weapon, considering people like to direct new players to that as something that carries their entire game even without Riven assistance.

Also, the disposition changes do nothing to limit weapons that are fundamentally overpowered, just as often due to mechanical reasons as due to the more easily compared statistical reasons. Making the Riven for that weapon worthless does nothing to fix this. But true baseline balance passes are much fewer and farther between in occurrences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Riven dispo changes have always produced more hate than likes. Nobody likes their toys broken just because they like them too much, and this is precisely what DE does.

"That weapon is so good and popular, LET'S NERF its riven disposition!" Well, weapons are popular because they are powerful and fun to use. No amount of riven dispo is going to make us use bland, ineffective weapons. The only thing this never ending nerf cycle produces is the idea that if you ever come up with a weapon setup you like, you should NEVER tell anyone else about, never post it and hope that nobody notices for a while. This is not a healthy approach. 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, DE once buffed Gammacor, which I like, that was nice.

I won't mind if they buff Battacor, which I also like, but I would be reasonably upset if they nerfed it, so I understand where the hate for Riven Dispo changes is coming from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

If a weapon with a riven is overpowered because of the riven disposition, then no you shouldn't keep it, that just spits on every player without one, for your sake.

However, many of the disposition changes are absolutely nonsense, like the repeated (Vaykor) Hek disposition buffs for example, when it's never been a bad weapon, considering people like to direct new players to that as something that carries their entire game even without Riven assistance.

Also, the disposition changes do nothing to limit weapons that are fundamentally overpowered, just as often due to mechanical reasons as due to the more easily compared statistical reasons. Making the Riven for that weapon worthless does nothing to fix this. But true baseline balance passes are much fewer and farther between in occurrences.

So if you won the lottery first prize and then the police came to your house and trashed it into the third prize or worse in a consolation prize you'd be fine with it?

If I have to roll tens of times for acceptable/usable stats on a riven, after al the range needed already to obtain one for a weapon i'm interested in, then get it changed multiple times should I be fine with it?

NO

I can understand if newly rolled or traded rivens get the changes, but not if something I own gets altered retroactively without my consent, especially if the change is damaging.

To be more clear: I don't give a kuaka's tail about selling or trading rivens and the hits that these changes inflict on their value.

What pissess me off is the resulting waste of my time whenever De craps on rivens that I grinded for - without any compensation to boot!

Nearly every time DE made changes on players inventory due to game changes/adjustments they gave some form of compensation:

be it extra formas, affinity weekends, the like, to let players recover/adapt to those changes.

The main case in which this doesn't apply is when something in an account is the fruit of fraudolent platinum, exploits or unintended glitches.

Consider that to slot a decent riven with its 18 mod cost you usually need to forma a weapon multiple times, then that riven becomes worse than a corrupted mod that requires 1/3 cost.

If you make a paragon with these examples DE is basically treating us as thiefs and cheaters whenever they change our inventory rivens.

DE: we respect oru players time and investment in the game

Us. what about Hema Grind?

DE:...

Us: what about riven kuva costs and rng on rolling?

DE:...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ikusias said:

So if you won the lottery first prize and then the police came to your house and trashed it into the third prize or worse in a consolation prize you'd be fine with it?

If I have to roll tens of times for acceptable/usable stats on a riven, after al the range needed already to obtain one for a weapon i'm interested in, then get it changed multiple times should I be fine with it?

NO

I can understand if newly rolled or traded rivens get the changes, but not if something I own gets altered retroactively without my consent, especially if the change is damaging.

To be more clear: I don't give a kuaka's tail about selling or trading rivens and the hits that these changes inflict on their value.

What pissess me off is the resulting waste of my time whenever De craps on rivens that I grinded for - without any compensation to boot!

Nearly every time DE made changes on players inventory due to game changes/adjustments they gave some form of compensation:

be it extra formas, affinity weekends, the like, to let players recover/adapt to those changes.

The main case in which this doesn't apply is when something in an account is the fruit of fraudolent platinum, exploits or unintended glitches.

Consider that to slot a decent riven with its 18 mod cost you usually need to forma a weapon multiple times, then that riven becomes worse than a corrupted mod that requires 1/3 cost.

That's a terrible analogy, first of all, which does nothing but highlight the sheer entitlement held towards busted Rivens.

Let's say instead that you were entering into a race, and the governing limit was engine power. You have a list of valid engines. Only, someone made a mistake, there's an engine on that list that was above the stated limit for the race. It is declared non-permitted and the next-nearest equivalent engine in all other specifications is provided to all those who already had the illicit engine.

You want to run that race with your over-limit engine simply because you have it already. It's not fair to everyone who chose something else (balance vs. other). It's not fair to anyone who would have opted for that engine but arrived after the mistake was rectified (rivens rolled for same weapon after dispo change).

You're already being given the equivalent to what you had, your god-tier riven for that specific weapon is just as god-tier as it was before (compared to all the rejected rolls on that riven).

 

I will say that there is an argument to be made on the lower limit of Rivens being excessively weak. But play the devil's advocate; it's probably because the weapon is kind of borderline overpowered without a riven at all, so it should have been hit in the base stats, not just made so that any imperfect Riven isn't worth the slot. Which is the big problem - the harder the disposition penalty, the more it needs to be perfected, which hamstrings viability of different/flexible stat rolls that is already questionable at best in the Rivens that are still of respectable disposition.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

That's a terrible analogy, first of all, which does nothing but highlight the sheer entitlement held towards busted Rivens.

Let's say instead that you were entering into a race, and the governing limit was engine power. You have a list of valid engines. Only, someone made a mistake, there's an engine on that list that was above the stated limit for the race. It is declared non-permitted and the next-nearest equivalent engine in all other specifications is provided to all those who already had the illicit engine.

This is a better analogy:

- someone made a mistake that put a lot of plat purchases in their pokets

- then they changed the rules to force a change of meta and push more plat sales

 

Rivens are a slot machine - if your win can be taken away on a whim of the developer, based on nebulous (as is undisclosed and 95% bullS#&$) metrics - the game is rigged to make you lose even when you rarely won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

This is a better analogy:

- someone made a mistake that put a lot of plat purchases in their pokets

- then they changed the rules to force a change of meta and push more plat sales

 

Rivens are a slot machine - if your win can be taken away on a whim of the developer, based on nebulous (as is undisclosed and 95% bullS#&$) metrics - the game is rigged to make you lose even when you rarely won.

did u roll them with plat?

no?

bad analogy 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

This is a better analogy:

- someone made a mistake that put a lot of plat purchases in their pokets

- then they changed the rules to force a change of meta and push more plat sales

 

Rivens are a slot machine - if your win can be taken away on a whim of the developer, based on nebulous (as is undisclosed and 95% bullS#&$) metrics - the game is rigged to make you lose even when you rarely won.

Rivens are purely a circulatory trade system, so no, that tinfoil hat can be left aside. The only thing that necessarily pushes more plat sales is having more exit points to the economy - more cosmetic purchases, more slot purchases, anything that results in a net reduction in total. If you sell a riven, you don't need to buy plat to buy a riven. If you buy a riven, you have a riven to sell. Market fluctuations on the individual don't alter the economy unless you have both fools with whose money they are easily parted and needless hoarders of currency who never do anything with it. Everything else is just circulation of existing stock.

And I thought you were ignoring trading?

4 hours ago, Ikusias said:

To be more clear: I don't give a kuaka's tail about selling or trading rivens and the hits that these changes inflict on their value.

 

Your 'win' of a Riven is still a 'win' of a Riven as compared to everyone else's on the same entity. You got that CC/CD/MS/-Z, you're doing better than the guy with Reload/Toxin/StatusDuration. That's what you rolled for, that's what you won, and that's what you still have.

There isn't even a broken status threshold on the Shotgun subset to meet any more. Closest (for any weapon) is losing out on the 'perfect yellow crit' threshold, but even then the hard numbers generally say that difference isn't worth as much in raw averaged output, it's just a feel-factor because the white-to-yellow difference is always going to be bigger than the static 200% scalars caused by rising to orange/red/super-red-tiers of crit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So your opinion is that the time i needed to drop, unveil, roll and farm kuva for a riven that I needed to roll upwards of 75 times to get usable stats - and then got it's bonuses neatly halved by DE revisions - its worth S#&$?

Meanwhile high disposition rivens for mediocre MR guns don't solve their inerent problem of being mediocre - coupled with the risk of getting also a correspondingly high negative modfier they risk to even exacerbate it!

Your opinion and DE behaviour would be acceptable if 2 out of 3 of the following were implemented:

- kuva needed per roll was much lower

- kuva drops were better

- riven rolls could be locked like on actual slot machines, permitting to selectively reroll 1,2 or 3 positive conditions or add/remove and roll separately a negative condition

in this case the horrid RNG connected to rivens would be drastically more manageable, but DE would sell many less resource booster, don't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

This is a better analogy:

For an accurate analogy: imagine you're buying foreign currency. You could go to that country, do work, and get paid in that currency too. But let's say you buy it. Later down the line, that country's economy takes a bit of a downturn and its government devalues its currency. So now what you bought is worse than when you bought it.

Are you going to be happy about that? No. Of course not. You just lost value. But that's how it goes. If you want that government to keep your bought currency at the strength you bought it at, you'd have people saying, "hey, if he can have fifty beckels at 1960's values, we want it the same way too!" That has consequences.

That's likely why DE won't budge on the request to grandfather old riven stats in. If or when that happens, people are going to want the possibility to get those stats. After all, it isn't fair to them that they weren't able to get it back then - maybe they weren't playing, back in the day. You may think, "tough luck to them that they lost out", but that also goes for your investment in the riven itself. Your riven got devalued? Tough luck you didn't invest in some other riven instead. That's harsh, and I don't like being harsh, but arguments can be made like that in both directions.

To be clear, I do think it's possible to have the boundaries of riven disposition be much fuzzier so that any roll is possible but rolls outside the disposition range become very unlikely. And under that, one could justify grandfathering in old stats, as they remain technically accessible. Ordinarily, I would be concerned about market and trading effects, but I feel like the consistent disposition changes have already done that damage. I do, however, feel the riven system as a whole needs a much more thorough rework than that. As does much of the game itself...

That's just my take, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I concur that any form of grandfathering is more or less unlikely...

Still it's like buying a ferrari testarossa and after some months opening your garage and finding a trabant painted red because the dealer changed idea!

We aren't talking about bonds, gold or other forms of investment... we are talking about actual goods (albeit digital) that get changed arbitrarily by DE after obtaining them.

NB PM me if you wish to continue this discussion, otherwise we'll turn this thread in a personal debate

Edited by Ikusias

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

    The riven system needs a lot of tweaks and fixes in general, if not a complete rework, to be honest .
 Right now it's a rat racing: enjoy, gamble, try to sell in 3 months.
   
Considering, that you have 0 control over what you're rolling and how kuva gains were not adjusted since release.
 A lot of my friends, clanmates and myself included comeback after a break- your collection can be ruined, time, kuva, plat investments - nullified.
 
  I could understand , if the  the new rolls would be with a new disposition , and old rolls became legacy non-tradeable (so ppl could not control the market with legacy dispositions)with a frozen dispo roll. With an option-  to make it a non-legacy dispo, if a person wants to fairly sell a riven.
 
Right now - it's a disrespect to a player.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why even have riven changes in the first place? Oh right because it makes you money doesn't it. Good thing I am selling my god rolls to people buying your prime access/accessories. Like rubico/quellor/pennant etc. Thanks DE for teaching me not to be attached to loot that means nothing 🙂

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-04-01 at 8:31 AM, Reifnir said:

Riven dispo changes have always produced more hate than likes. Nobody likes their toys broken just because they like them too much, and this is precisely what DE does.

"That weapon is so good and popular, LET'S NERF its riven disposition!" Well, weapons are popular because they are powerful and fun to use. No amount of riven dispo is going to make us use bland, ineffective weapons. The only thing this never ending nerf cycle produces is the idea that if you ever come up with a weapon setup you like, you should NEVER tell anyone else about, never post it and hope that nobody notices for a while. This is not a healthy approach. 

Healthy is relative to how much health can be gained from making money for your employees by exploiting customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 11 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Pummelegance:

Healthy is relative to how much health can be gained from making money for your employees by exploiting customers.

welcome to the world of capitalism. side-note: this world includes the whole planet.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...