New Basmu stats (i.e. pls undo Phage/Phantasma nerf)

[shut]

Here's what the new Basmu looks like:

 

 

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The Phage/Phantasma got their Status chances nerfed in U27.2.0 because DE mistakenly believes that their multi-beams can proc multiple times.
For those who aren't aware, multi-beam weapons do not produce more procs than single-beam weapons. Instead of dealing more instances of damage when multiple beams touch the enemy, the beams will instead combine into a single, larger instance of damage. See this thread for details, and this thread for details + video.

 

Enter: the Basmu. It mechanically behaves like the Convectrix, Amprex, and Larkspur had a baby, except with none of Convectrix's downsides.
The Basmu is a multi-beam weapon like the Convectrix, Phantasma, and Phage, EXCEPT:

• it has way better Status Chance than both the Phantasma and Phage
• it has Nukor's hilariously high crit damage, except higher
• it also chains like the Amprex
• it also auto-aims like the Larkspur cause lol why not

The Phantasma/Phage were never exactly god-tier weapons, and the unnecessary nerf they received was based on a misunderstanding of their mechanics. The Basmu having better Status Chance than both has thrown their subpar performance into even sharper relief.

 

---- tl;dr ----

Multi-beam weapons do not proc more with Multishot. The Phage/Phantasma nerf was unjustified and should be reverted, especially now that a monster like Basmu is in the game.

Edited March 27, 2020 by SortaRandom
Updated now that I've used the weapon

[Robolaser]

Il y a 16 heures, SortaRandom a dit :

• it has way better Status Chance than both the Phantasma and Phage
• it has Nukor's hilariously high crit damage, except higher
• it also chains like the Amprex cause lol why not

Don't forget "regenerative battery", even shorter reload, double the magazine size, oh and life steal on top... did someone say powercreep? 😮

Edited March 25, 2020 by Robolaser

[(PSN)Krikenemp]

Wow, that's some crit damage. Something definitely feels off with Phantasma though... but I don't think it's the status application. I can get to 10 stacks of corrosive in seconds, but the thing's damage output feels like a wet fart. Alt fire feels like a total waste of ammo now. Worse burst damage than the sustained damage primary fire, somehow; slow projectiles with terrible homing; meh explosion damage even when hitting direct shots; slower over-all status application despite a higher status chance because of how freaking slow the projectiles are to track and finally hit their targets. I used to use the Phantasma solely for its alt fire but now it feels like garbage.

[lilwonktonk]

do you have the basmu? its awful

[Robolaser]

il y a 10 minutes, lilwonktonk a dit :

do you have the basmu? its awful

Would you mind elaborating a bit?

[lilwonktonk]

it just deals no damage. the secondary is completly useless, 2% is not enough crit chance to make use of its nice multi, and it deals trash damage anyway. The primary is just the acceltra but bad.

[(PSN)Krikenemp]

1 minute ago, lilwonktonk said:

The primary is just the acceltra but bad.

So, the acceltra? XD

[lilwonktonk]

Just now, (PS4)Krikenemp said:

So, the acceltra? XD

hey man i like the acceltra at least it can do some damage

[Robolaser]

EDIT: @lilwonktonk nevermind, i just saw that you gave more details in another thread, and will reply there. Thanks!

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Robolaser

[lilwonktonk]

28 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

  

 

Thanks for these precisions!

The DPS of the main fire mode seems quite high, about base 975 dps (accounting for crit and damage falloff) so probably in the top 5%. Keep in mind that the Acceltra was one of the most used weapons for along time before the Bramma, saying a weapon is bad because it's not as good as it might not be fair.

The alt fire seems to have overall similar stats to the kuva Nukor, which is currently overused too. But if the two beams fires like the convectrix i understand why some might not like it, despite the added chaining. Could you please explain in more details why you consider it useless (which again is quite a strong adjective)?

Also does it indeed have infinite ammo? how does the life steal work? Is there a delay before reloading? These mechanics sound very similar to the shedu.

The reload time is way too long proportional to the magazine size, making the gun no fun to use. For example, the supra vandal has a much longer reload, but it also has a 300 round magazine, making it a fair tradeoff. The 21 rounds the basmu has run out very quickly. After building it a bit it can be serviceable if you have argon scope, but if you don't have that then its just not worth the inconvenience.

The secondary just does no damage to anything. The crit chance is just too low. The difference between 2% and 7% here is vast, with the kuva nukor being able to get a decent crit chance of ~20% with just primed pistol gambit, not even counting hydraulic crosshairs. The basmu gets up to 5% before argon scope, and argon scope is rare and expensive. Even when it crits, the low base damage cripples it. The kuva nukor has 21 base damage (not accounting the elemental bonus from the lich) compared to the basmu's 12. Pistols also have hornet strike for a greater damage boost, leading to the kuva nukor being miles ahead in damage output. Having a base status of 50% instead of 30% helps the kuva nukor even more. While the weapons are somewhat similar, one is clearly worse.

It does have infinite ammo, which is nice. If the clip bottoms out, you're stuck in a slow reload, working like a traditional reload. If you don't bottom out you can actually keep shooting, as it regenerates like the shedu. The life steal comes out in 3 waves while youre reloading. The effect is nice, but not worth the hit to the weapon's usablilty.

(edit - 300, supra vandal has a magazine of 300.)

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by lilwonktonk

[lilwonktonk]

24 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

EDIT: @lilwonktonk nevermind, i just saw that you gave more details in another thread, and will reply there. Thanks!

 

aaaa i didnt read that until i finished posting the reply here aaaaa

[Robolaser]

No problem mate, maybe a moderator will merge both threads anyway, as they often do.

[shut]

1 hour ago, lilwonktonk said:

The reload time is way too long proportional to the magazine size, making the gun no fun to use. For example, the supra vandal has a much longer reload, but it also has a 300 round magazine, making it a fair tradeoff. The 21 rounds the basmu has run out very quickly. After building it a bit it can be serviceable if you have argon scope, but if you don't have that then its just not worth the inconvenience.

The secondary just does no damage to anything. The crit chance is just too low. The difference between 2% and 7% here is vast, with the kuva nukor being able to get a decent crit chance of ~20% with just primed pistol gambit, not even counting hydraulic crosshairs. The basmu gets up to 5% before argon scope, and argon scope is rare and expensive. Even when it crits, the low base damage cripples it. The kuva nukor has 21 base damage (not accounting the elemental bonus from the lich) compared to the basmu's 12. Pistols also have hornet strike for a greater damage boost, leading to the kuva nukor being miles ahead in damage output. Having a base status of 50% instead of 30% helps the kuva nukor even more. While the weapons are somewhat similar, one is clearly worse.

It does have infinite ammo, which is nice. If the clip bottoms out, you're stuck in a slow reload, working like a traditional reload. If you don't bottom out you can actually keep shooting, as it regenerates like the shedu. The life steal comes out in 3 waves while youre reloading. The effect is nice, but not worth the hit to the weapon's usablilty.

(edit - 300, supra vandal has a magazine of 300.)

 

Interesting, thanks for testing out the weapon! I had assumed that it would just have a hella-fast reload like a kitgun with Pax Charge or something, but I'm surprised it has a traditional reload when emptied.

The base crit chance is definitely too low to mod for, but in the basmu's defense, any additive source of CC (e.g. Harrow, Adarza, Arcane Avenger) will still make great use of the crit multiplier.

 

Out of curiosity, how's the chaining range on this weapon? Is it the standard 5m like Amprex / Kuva Nukor, or is it smaller like the Gaze?

Edited March 26, 2020 by SortaRandom

[-Kittens-]

On 2020-03-24 at 4:07 PM, SortaRandom said:

The Phantasma/Phage were never exactly god-tier weapons

The Phage is god tier without a riven, with a 5 disposition shift it still melts things at Synapse level even after the nerf. I'm not saying the nerf should stay, because it shouldn't, but the phage is the strongest lightsaber in the game outside of the synapse.

Edited March 26, 2020 by -Kittens-

[shut]

Updated the OP now that I have the Basmu and I've tested it out. Fun fact: it auto-aims like the Larkspur.
The downside of the Convectrix doesn't even apply to this weapon, because as long as you're within range and you're looking in the general direction of an enemy, neither beam will EVER miss its target.

 

The big reason that everyone dislikes the Basmu's beam is that it's currently bugged to consume ammo 2x faster than usual (as well as being incompatible with beam mods like Sinister Reach, which I feel might be related). 
Beam weapons are meant to consume 0.5 ammo per tick, but the Basmu is consuming 1 ammo instead. It ends up having to reload before any signficant damage has been dealt.

 

So, uh, yeah... undo the Phage/Phantasma nerf pls.

[(PSN)Krikenemp]

On 2020-03-26 at 1:27 AM, -Kittens- said:

The Phage is god tier without a riven

Can't say I agree with that... I have a Riven (135% Multishot, 105% Toxin, 193% damage) and my best build for it is... just competitive with my Sancti Tigris, which has no Riven and is missing a mod slot. It's definitely not a bad gun though.

[-Kittens-]

You're doing it wrong then because i have a negative crit riven that evaporates anything under 250 it touches, and it's been nerfed twice, and thinking about it that's probably WHY it was nerfed, because of hybrid crit hunter builds, which I have little use for as the raw damage build at high status obviated the need for using any of that because the target was dead before slash started doing anything useful.

Typical warframe balancing, where an edge case becomes the benchmark for all use; in addition to fluffing the Corinth up just in time for a sales pitch.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by -Kittens-

[(PSN)Krikenemp]

1 hour ago, -Kittens- said:

You're doing it wrong then because i have a negative crit riven that evaporates anything under 250 it touches, and it's been nerfed twice, and thinking about it that's probably WHY it was nerfed, because of hybrid crit hunter builds, which I have little use for as the raw damage build at high status obviated the need for using any of that because the target was dead before slash started doing anything useful.

Typical warframe balancing, where an edge case becomes the benchmark for all use; in addition to fluffing the Corinth up just in time for a sales pitch.

 

Yeah, HM is wasted on Phage imo because of how Slash proc damage is calculated. What is your build that works so well and what else does your Riven have on it? Also are you testing in the Simulacrum using Pause AI? Because that applies stealth damage and makes your everything look way better than it is.

Edited March 27, 2020 by (PS4)Krikenemp

[shut]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Krikenemp said:

Yeah, HM is wasted on Phage imo because of how Slash proc damage is calculated. What is your build that works so well and what else does your Riven have on it? Also are you testing in the Simulacrum using Pause AI? Because that applies stealth damage and makes your everything look way better than it is.

Stealth damage is only a thing for melee weapons, and even that was disabled against Simulacrum "Paused AI" enemies last week.

I'm assuming that his build combines Corrosive with Phage's base Viral damage, which is basically the dream duo on high-status-but-no-slash weapons. I don't doubt that Phage is very powerful because of this, but I'd argue that it's mostly by virtue of Viral being hella OP.

Edited March 28, 2020 by SortaRandom

[(PSN)Krikenemp]

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

I'm assuming that his build combines Corrosive with Phage's base Viral damage, which is basically the dream duo on high-status-but-no-slash weapons.

So is mine, which is why I asked. I can't imagine their build is much different than mine. So unless our definitions of godly are vastly different, I don't know what else could make up this massive difference in performance we're seeing.

[-Kittens-]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Krikenemp said:

Yeah, HM is wasted on Phage imo because of how Slash proc damage is calculated. What is your build that works so well and what else does your Riven have on it? Also are you testing in the Simulacrum using Pause AI? Because that applies stealth damage and makes your everything look way better than it is.

Stealth damage only works for melee, and as of Scarlet Spear no longer works for melee.

 

edit: Also also considering the tigrii lost about 30-40% of their damage potential with the shotgun nerf, I wouldn't be too keen to trot them out as examples "ok pretty good shotgun", they cover the start chart just fine, but they still have a very distinct ceiling now.

 

3 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

'm assuming that his build combines Corrosive with Phage's base Viral damage, which is basically the dream duo on high-status-but-no-slash weapons

You assume correctly. At 100% status the ttk was actually faster than synapse, and considering i had a red crit synapse riven until the nerf, that's saying quite a bit. Single target beam weapons shouldn't be nerfed to begin with. But see now they can offer the "phage evo" lich gun, so good luck getting the nerf unnerfed, because as we've seen with the kohm and corinth, there are definitely office favorites, never mind scott personally nerfing continuals (and ember) for five years because event rage.

As for the riven it's 320 D 218 MS -68.2 CC and the rest of the build WAS for status with Primed electric filling in the "spare slot", now it subs Blaze for 60/60 cold, though I'm considering putting that back in to get at least 50% status because of the current nerf. If the glaxion vandal needs that love, just buff it.

Edited March 28, 2020 by -Kittens-

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 2020-03-25 at 8:59 AM, Robolaser said:

Don't forget "regenerative battery", even shorter reload, double the magazine size, oh and life steal on top... did someone say powercreep? 😮

You don't want your Phantasma "buffed" to be where the Basmu's alt fire is right now.  Trust me.  9m range, double ammo consumption, doesn't work properly with crit modding, literally CANNOT hit headshots.... probably half the base damage it ought to have too....

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 2020-03-26 at 1:22 AM, SortaRandom said:

The base crit chance is definitely too low to mod for

Uh, no, no it isn't.  It's about at breakeven on the alt fire even without outside crit like cats and harrow and avenger.  If it didn't consume ammo at doubletime and worked properly with the Vigilante set mods AND had a bit longer range it'd probably be pretty good.  The primary fire is a crit must.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

On 2020-03-27 at 11:01 PM, -Kittens- said:

as we've seen with the kohm and corinth, there are definitely office favorites

Kohm is actually worse than it was.  It just seems better because the stronger enemies have been nerfed down even more than it has.  Kuva Kohm is even worse still, since it has 96% damage falloff, starting at slightly past your eyelashes and ending maybe a bit past where you can stub your toe without going anywhere.