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GentlePuppet

Why is Damage Against the Condrix Nerfed when you get Fire Rate/Damage Buffs from Abilities?

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Posted (edited)

Wisp or Harrow or such gives us a fire rate buff and we deal less damage per shot than without it. 
Rhinos use roar and deal a minimal amount of bonus damage (reported by my rhino friend) So he'll use roar and should deal 2x damage but it only adds a small amount. For example from 5000 damage to 5500 damage per shot.

Don't believe me watch this video or try it for yerselves.
Go into a mission as Wisp and shoot the Condrix then put down a haste mote and shoot it again, then wait for the debuff to go away and shoot it again.
You'll see the biggest difference if you have a really strong gun. 

It's like someone in DE decided the best way to "Balance" the Condrix so we couldn't damage it faster than they wanted was to make it say for example spread out the total damage done over time based on fire rate.
So if you deal 100,000 Damage every 5 seconds if you get a boost to attack speed it'll lower the damage you do per shot so you keep doing only 100,000 damage in five seconds.
But if you deal more than x damage it gets completely negated because it was too big.

In my case, I used my Modded Opticor Vandal and I would deal around 8k damage per shot with it, but if I got my 60% haste buff from the mote I'd only deal 4k damage per shot.
The riven is +141.1 Puncture, +143.8 Crit damage, -24.1 Damage to Infested. I recognize it's not the best for the Condrix but that doesn't matter when my shots get cut in half when I get a 60% fire rate boost.
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Edited by GentlePuppet
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Huh...by the percentages, that seems like a bona-fide DPS cap. Curious how far they've gone with it, e.g. with multishot...

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The more damage you are supposed to deal, the less you actually deal it feels. I ran with a +900% Fury Chroma and got the same results as without the buff.
Best strategy right now is to run Mirage.

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Pretty sure DE have damage capped it... it's not the first time they've done it either.

Snipers didn't do as much damage, high fire rate weapons worked fine.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Pretty sure DE have damage capped it... it's not the first time they've done it either.

Snipers didn't do as much damage, high fire rate weapons worked fine.

My rhino friend I mentioned said even when he used a machine gun that the faster it started to fire the lower the damage would go. He said you can literally watch the numbers drop the faster you shoot.

Edit: just tested it with a modded kuva kohm that was modded to shoot really really slow.
The first shot did something like 500, then something like 490, 460, 430, 400, 300, and it kept going down. Whatever math they have to determine the damage drop is super jank and quite shady considering it isn't mentioned anywhere.

Here's the setup I used to test it. It was ungodly slow to wind up and fire but it had a severe drop in damage between shots.
unknown.png
 

2 hours ago, Vespilan said:

The more damage you are supposed to deal, the less you actually deal it feels. I ran with a +900% Fury Chroma and got the same results as without the buff.
Best strategy right now is to run Mirage.

Edit 2: I tried to use mirage and her hall of mirrors but my opticor deals too much damage so the condrix completely blocks all my damage and throws out little zeros everywhere. I can use eclipse to boost my 8k up to 10k or 11k.

Edited by GentlePuppet
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To all the PC players being forced into Quality Control Servitude, my humble gratitude is all I can offer to ease your burden! 

Clearly from the volume of responses, on this medium alone, should warrant some serious inspection of DE's Quality Control dept! (or should I say lack thereof)  It seems that PC players are becoming more reliant upon to do the QC work, that usually, people would get compensated for their efforts.  I just wanted to say us console players appreciate your sweat shop work to keep Warframe afloat in these troubled times!  I hope that DE will listen to it's playerbase and fix the plethora of problems before the Scarlett Letter F for Fail is sewn into our consoles lapel!

Stay Safe and Well my fellow Tenno!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, GentlePuppet said:

Edit: just tested it with a modded kuva kohm that was modded to shoot really really slow.
The first shot did something like 500, then something like 490, 460, 430, 400, 300, and it kept going down. Whatever math they have to determine the damage drop is super jank and quite shady considering it isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

Weird, I took my crit rivened tenora and my damage was pretty consistent.... there was a little fluctuation between yellow and red crits but other than that it didn't seem to lower the longer I used it.

But then I haven't done it since they 'reworked' health....

Edited by LSG501

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8 hours ago, GentlePuppet said:

I tried to use mirage and her hall of mirrors but my opticor deals too much damage so the condrix completely blocks all my damage and throws out little zeros everywhere. I can use eclipse to boost my 8k up to 10k or 11k.

Yeah with my Kuva Bramma and MIrage I scored about 11-15k regular crits and 32k orange crits so I recommend that. 

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I sighed very deeply as I read this post. This explains everything then. DE is up to their old shenanigans again by cheating with stats. Soon the codex won't be worth the bytes it's occupying on their servers if this continues. I don't get why they keep insisting on cheating like this with damage values. Oh well, I guess it's just another reason to give this event a skip.

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16 hours ago, GentlePuppet said:

Whatever math they have to determine the damage drop is super jank and quite shady considering it isn't mentioned anywhere.

Though shady it isn't mentioned, the jank is probably coming from the multishot. Extra pellets means each pellet needs to do less damage to adhere to the DPS cap. In the stats, there's a 220% multishot, meaning a 20% chance for an extra pellet, meaning a 20% chance for the damage to bump down by a little bit extra than normal to compensate.

Maybe try without the odd multishot percentage, see if you get a constant curve that way?

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14 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Weird, I took my crit rivened tenora and my damage was pretty consistent.... there was a little fluctuation between yellow and red crits but other than that it didn't seem to lower the longer I used it.

The Kohm does more damage (has more pellets) with each shot in its spool up. The Tenora only gets more accurate, so based on this post it should be unaffected.

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This is extremely shady and underhanded, i tested my fulmin with 102% crit chance and took the multishot off and it did 2169 on every single shot without the haste buff and with the buff did 1585 on every single shot, saw this thread earlier and thought surely this is just a crazy rumor brought on by event frustration but your'e 100% right. 

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Posted (edited)

I deleted my post because what i said was stupid.

Edited by Snuggy

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I can also verify this. Played with my Aksomati and it starts slow but ramps up fire rate...I go from 1700 a pellet to 1200-1300 by the time it finishes, which is a drastic percentage.

 

I don't want to say there's a true dps cap, but I did notice that Volt+Lanka lost damage output way too fast as the levels went up. Its armor scaling goes up by a tiny bit per level, but by level 90 it has almost 70% reduction....so maybe at some point it adds/lowers that dps cap so early levels aren't difficult.

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Effectively, this soft DPS capping mechanic is another reason that ground missions are solo unfriendly. The only way to gain absolute damage output is to have different damage sources hit the Condrix.

Which means, either Mirage's clones, or other players. Solo players can try to bring the buff-ing-est things they have and they get actively punished for it (but wait! They can't do that because they HAVE to bring something to babysit their oplink.. which itself has to be babysat for 4 times longer, too..)

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On 2020-03-25 at 6:54 PM, LSG501 said:

Pretty sure DE have damage capped it... it's not the first time they've done it either.

Snipers didn't do as much damage, high fire rate weapons worked fine.

I second this motion. I suspect that it's the same damage model as Lephantis: Corrosive & High Fire Rate.

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Playing today on Titania, and my base bullet hits for 520ish per crit, Arcane velocity triggers (120% attack speed), and I drop to 400 per crit. Base damage drops from 110 to 93.

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