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Basmu is awful please buff


lilwonktonk
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The long reloads and lack of any damage dealing ability make this weapon a waste of time to grind for. Its not even funny bad like the stug, its just irritating. The primary is just a bad acceltra, but if it had crit chance worth a damn it would be salvageable. The health stealing thing is nice but not worth the sacrifice of a long reload. Coupled with the low magazine capacity the weapon has more downtime than uptime, and its frustrating to try and get kills with. The secondary is just a bad kuva nukor. That gun works because it has enough crit chance to use its multi semi-frequently. 2% is just not enough to get a meaningful amount of crits, even with mods, and when you do get a crit it still does no damage because of the whopping 12 base damage. After farming for a whole day for this thing, im frankly a bit miffed that its nigh unusable.

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Thanks for the quick review.

I find your disappointment a bit surprising, the DPS of the main fire mode seems quite high, about base 975 dps (accounting for both direct hit and radial damage, crit, and damage falloff) so probably in the top 5%. Keep in mind that the Acceltra was one of the most used weapons for a long time before the Bramma, saying a weapon is bad because it's not as good as the Acceltra might not be fair.

The alt fire seems to have overall similar stats to the kuva Nukor, which is currently overused too. But if the two beams fires like the convectrix i understand why some might not like it, despite the added chaining. Is the 12 base damage per beam, of for both beams?

There are many ways to circumvent the low crit chances, and make good use of the high multiplier, such as adarza, arcane, and abilities. Have you considered these?

A few more questions if you don't mind, does it indeed have infinite ammo? how does the life steal work? 0.2 reload sounds extremely short, so i suppose there is a delay before reloading, how long is it approximately? Or is it 0.2 per ammo reloaded maybe? What's the range of the secondary, and how many enemies can be chained at once?

Edited by Robolaser
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4 minutes ago, lilwonktonk said:

The reload time is way too long proportional to the magazine size, making the gun no fun to use. For example, the supra vandal has a much longer reload, but it also has a 300 round magazine, making it a fair tradeoff. The 21 rounds the basmu has run out very quickly. After building it a bit it can be serviceable if you have argon scope, but if you don't have that then its just not worth the inconvenience.

The secondary just does no damage to anything. The crit chance is just too low. The difference between 2% and 7% here is vast, with the kuva nukor being able to get a decent crit chance of ~20% with just primed pistol gambit, not even counting hydraulic crosshairs. The basmu gets up to 5% before argon scope, and argon scope is rare and expensive. Even when it crits, the low base damage cripples it. The kuva nukor has 21 base damage (not accounting the elemental bonus from the lich) compared to the basmu's 12. Pistols also have hornet strike for a greater damage boost, leading to the kuva nukor being miles ahead in damage output. Having a base status of 50% instead of 30% helps the kuva nukor even more. While the weapons are somewhat similar, one is clearly worse.

It does have infinite ammo, which is nice. If the clip bottoms out, you're stuck in a slow reload, working like a traditional reload. If you don't bottom out you can actually keep shooting, as it regenerates like the shedu. The life steal comes out in 3 waves while youre reloading. The effect is nice, but not worth the hit to the weapon's usablilty.

 

i don't know how many enemies can be chained and i frankly do not care, it deals poo poo damage to a lot of enemies at once.

Edited by lilwonktonk
supra vandal has 300 mag cap, not 200
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So you basically don't know half of the importants things about it, didn't try to circumvert the low crit chance in any of the possible ways, and say it need to be buffed ?

I guess I will just test it by myself and completely ignore your opinion so, because imho, it seems pretty strong, number wise, specially after the status buff... Have you even tried it with Viral + Heat+180% status ? Or was that also way above your consideration ? And did you even consider punch through to see if it multiply the chaining as it does with Amprex ? Or that too was far too "insignificant" (just a potential x2 damage multiplier overall, nothing important, I agree...)

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10 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Thanks for the quick review.

I find your disappointment a bit surprising, the DPS of the main fire mode seems quite high, about base 975 dps (accounting for both direct hit and radial damage, crit, and damage falloff) so probably in the top 5%. Keep in mind that the Acceltra was one of the most used weapons for a long time before the Bramma, saying a weapon is bad because it's not as good as the Acceltra might not be fair.

The alt fire seems to have overall similar stats to the kuva Nukor, which is currently overused too. But if the two beams fires like the convectrix i understand why some might not like it, despite the added chaining. Is the 12 base damage per beam, of for both beams?

There are many ways to circumvent the low crit chances, and make good use of the high multiplier, such as adarza, arcane, and abilities. Have you considered these?

A few more questions if you don't mind, does it indeed have infinite ammo? how does the life steal work? 0.2 reload sounds extremely short, so i suppose there is a delay before reloading, how long is it approximately? Or is it 0.2 per ammo reloaded maybe? What's the range of the secondary, and how many enemies can be chained at once?

 

My suggestion its to look at

 

 

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il y a 31 minutes, prodi1600 a dit :

My suggestion its to look at

I usually avoid youtubers, but this was very informative yet concise. I must admit that the Basmu doesn't seem as OP as i thought it would be given its stats. The 0.2s reload in particular was quite misleading (not sure where it comes from?). Looks decent and capable enough overall though, just not unreasonably strong as some other recent additions to our arsenal. Thanks!

Edited by Robolaser
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13 hours ago, lilwonktonk said:

long reloads

Just sayin', stop shooting before the magazine is empty and you get a much faster recharge.

So, either muster some trigger discipline to keep your DPS up, or enjoy Health draining AoE damage after going all out, I like those options.

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3 hours ago, Kur0Shir0 said:

So you basically don't know half of the importants things about it, didn't try to circumvert the low crit chance in any of the possible ways, and say it need to be buffed ?

I guess I will just test it by myself and completely ignore your opinion so, because imho, it seems pretty strong, number wise, specially after the status buff... Have you even tried it with Viral + Heat+180% status ? Or was that also way above your consideration ? And did you even consider punch through to see if it multiply the chaining as it does with Amprex ? Or that too was far too "insignificant" (just a potential x2 damage multiplier overall, nothing important, I agree...)

I did try to mod for crit chance with argon scope and point strike, and if a weapon requires warframe/arcane buffs those buffs could be applied to greater effect on a weapon that can stand on its own without them.

also it cant even get to 180% status (all 4 60/60s with rifle aptitude gets it to 129%) and you cant build viral and heat on it due to its base damage being electricity. putting on heat turns it to radiation. 

with the punchthrough thing, after testing it i genuinely couldn't tell, the damage dealt was still almost nothing. 2x trash is still trash.

for the primary, a status build did no damage anyway, and a crit build was the only way it was usable.

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1 minute ago, NinjaZeku said:

Just sayin', stop shooting before the magazine is empty and you get a much faster recharge.

So, either muster some trigger discipline to keep your DPS up, or enjoy Health draining AoE damage after going all out, I like those options.

true, but being forced to fire in bursts kills any enjoyment for me. if i have to constantly micromanage a weapon to avoid its gimmick, then that gimmick is nothing but a burden on the weapon's usability. damage-wise, the aoe is useless, but the health draining is admittedly nice. honestly if it worked like the shedu where it came out in one pulse and you could get back to shooting faster, id probably like it.

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8 hours ago, Robolaser said:

The 0.2s reload in particular was quite misleading (not sure where it comes from?)

That reload stat comes from the recharge rate like the Cycron without emptying the battery. Emptying the battery will force the manual reload with the life leech. My problem with the Basmu is how fast it fires, stemming from the problem of spending more time to reload than shooting the gun.

Frankly, the Quellor should've had that firing speed to match its description

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Primary Fire has a very decent amount of damage but the 12 RPS on a 21 Magazine Size is a bit too much,

Requires you let go of the trigger each ~1 second, DPS suffers because of that.

Unlike other Radial Dmg Weapons, Most of this weapon's damage is in the projectile and not in the AoE Damage which is fine I guess.

Decent Critical Chance enables you to build Crit... Yes, You can build crit on its Primary Fire.
 With 12 RPS you don't need high Crit Chance to be viable.

 

Secondary Fire is just the worst.

It doesn't do nearly as much damage as you would think. For me it's dealing around 1/10 of the Primary Fire's damage.
I know the 2 beams can target 2 enemies at a time but even when the 2 beams are focusing on 1 target, the damage is just... I don't know where it's at xD
Add to this that you must stop firing each ~1sec or so, the DPS is just literally the worst.

Another thing that doesn't help the Alt Fire is the fact that it doesn't have the 0.5 ammo consumed per second as every other Beam Held weapon has... except for the Atomos and ONLY the Atomos, Why the Atomos?? I don't get why is it that some Held weapons can have this mechanic and some cannot.

You may think: Probably the Basmu's Alt Fire is more of a Status Effect thing and not a damage dealer? No... Because the difference between Primary and Secondary Fire's Status Chance is literally 1%. I'm consused 🤣

 

Pros:

Spoiler

 

Good

High Damage on Primary Fire.

Very Fast Reload if magazine is not empty.

Infinite Ammo.

 

Fair

AoE Damage / Status.

Aim Assist on Secondary Fire.

10m Radial Life Drain & Stagger effect when the magazine is empty.
 I don't actually notice the Life Drain because of Medi-Ray and Odomedic.
 Sadly, The Damage it deals is minimal, 2-25 dmg depending on distance and it doesn't seem to scale with mods.

 

 

Cons:
 

Spoiler

 

The Worst

Must Reload Manually when Magazine is empty, I keep getting CC'd while manually reloading and let me tell you, It HURTS!

Alt Fire doesn't have the 0.5 Ammo Per Second mechanic all other Beam Held weapons have, Why? 🤔

Very Low Base Damage on Secondary Fire, I don't see the reason why it shouldn't deal as much damage as the Primary Fire, Both Firing Modes have AoE and pretty much the same amount of status chance but primary has more damage output and can even benefit from Crit Build to make the damage even higher.

Very short range on Secondary Fire, ~9m Range, For a moment I thought the range was intended to be this short because you could hit enemies in 360º around you but I guess not, it's just what it is, Short xD

 

Bad

Quite Small Magazine Size, Could use a few more rounds.

Innate Electricity Damage, With the Status Effect Update Corrosive is kinda... Heat is better lol

Low Critical Chance on Secondary Fire, It would be nice if the Crit Chance could at least match the Kuva Nukor's of 7% instead of 2%, With the x4.8 Multiplier it could compensate the lack of Base Damage with Critical Damage.

Alt Fire is not toggle, Managing the magazine using middle mouse doesn't seem to be my thing. I use Zenith and Euphona Prime A LOT, for me pressing middle mouse for Alt Fire feels natural but for the Basmu's Held Beam it just feels weird.

 

 

Since you can run out of ammo in a matter of 1-2 seconds, I wish I had a bar in the middle of the screen telling me how much ammo I have left.
Looking at the corner of the screen each couple seconds on a 1920x1080 monitor is harsh lol
The audio does help a little bit with the Primary Fire but it's barely noticeable, Alt Fire on the other hand doesn't seem to have a Low Ammo audio.

Edited by 0meg4x
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12 hours ago, 0meg4x said:

Cons:

 Alt Fire doesn't have the 0.5 Ammo Per Second mechanic all other Beam Held weapons have, Why? 🤔

Very short range on Secondary Fire, ~9m Range, For a moment I thought the range was intended to be this short because you could hit enemies in 360º around you but I guess not, it's just what it is, Short xD

Alt Fire is not toggle, Managing the magazine using middle mouse doesn't seem to be my thing. I use Zenith and Euphona Prime A LOT, for me pressing middle mouse for Alt Fire feels natural but for the Basmu's Held Beam it just feels weird.

Having just crafted a Basmu myself, these three are definitely the worst issues that I'm noticing right now. I'm hoping the 0.5 ammo thing is a bug, because the alt fire really isn't doing enough before it's forced to reload. (The weapon is also incompatible with beam mods like Sinister Reach and Combustion Beam, which I suspect might be related.)

The lack of an Alt Fire toggle feels especially weird to me. The primary+secondary fire have different crit stats, so players are likely to just build for one mode without ever touching the other. This will be especially true when/if the beam mod incompatibility gets fixed.

 

The basmu's beam being alt-fire-only is just painful for me, since I'm literally only interested in the beam 😞 

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On 2020-03-26 at 12:03 AM, Robolaser said:

I find your disappointment a bit surprising, the DPS of the main fire mode seems quite high, about base 975 dps (accounting for both direct hit and radial damage, crit, and damage falloff) so probably in the top 5%.

The problem being that it fires fast enough with a small enough magazine that even without a fire rate mod it spends about a third of its time reloading even if you don't empty the magazine.  If you DO empty the magazine it spends more than half of its time reloading.

The other problem is that it's a crit weapon, so let's compare to a somewhat similar crit rifle, the Buzlok.  Buzlok is not generally considered to be an amazing weapon, but it has higher base damage, higher crit chance, and higher crit damage, so much so that after the normal crit mods are factored in, even with the lower fire rate it's doing 80% of the BURST damage of the Basmu.  Now you have to factor in that its magazine size is 2.4x as big, with a reload that is only longer if you don't ever deplete the Basmu completely.  Now you have to factor in the Buzlok's signature gimmick, a tracing round that auto-guides following rounds to its target and adds 50% flat crit chance on top of whatever the Buzlok is modded to.  Between these, the Buzlok is outputting quite literally twice the DPS.  Now factor in that the Buzlok is more accurate.

The only legs up the Basmu even potentially has on the old Buzlok is that it has a small AoE (generally irrelevant) and higher status chance, and it doesn't ever need ammo (which is, honestly, almost never a concern for the Buzlok).  The AoE is small enough it's not going to be hitting additional targets 95% of the time or more, so it's only really useful for catching targets at the edge of its range if for some reason you aim at their feet.

As for the alt-fire, it's literally within melee slam radial damage range, and doesn't even do decent damage without something like a Harrow backing its crit chance up, in addition to needing a 0.6s ramp up which will expend about 30% of its battery in the process.  It can't use Sinister Reach and the beam chains are also quite short.  It doesn't benefit from multishot for the status chance, so I guess it having two beams sort of is to make up for that?

Mission failed, alt fire's pretty average even on a Harrow who doesn't have a melee equipped, especially considering it literally cannot hit heads unless you're above the first enemy you're firing at because of its center-of-mass-seeking property.  Anyone else can melee for probably 50x the damage output within that range.  I personally put out about 350k dps in that radius with low effort slams from a rivenless zaw that isn't even focused on slams (and that's if the blade of the zaw DOESN'T hit, if it does it's something like a million DPS even BEFORE the CO on it has procs to scale with), so....  It's not even a good setup weapon for Condition Overload because it has no IPS, so max statuses possible is 3 or maybe 4 with Hunter Munitions, instead of 5 like most IPS or 6 like some split IPS/element weapons.

Actually, in action testing inclines me to suspect that the alt fire is bugged.  It does something like 1/20th the damage my headmath is saying it should be doing, even after I'm in the melee range I need to be in to use it.

On 2020-03-26 at 9:49 AM, Kur0Shir0 said:

didn't try to circumvert the low crit chance in any of the possible ways, and say it need to be buffed ?

Why bother when the same crit buffs apply to a huge array of weapons that can use them better?  Melee vs anything the alt fire can provide, and crit primaries in general vs anything the primary fire can provide.

On 2020-03-26 at 9:49 AM, Kur0Shir0 said:

Have you even tried it with Viral + Heat+180% status ?

Have you even compared the utility of viral heat to corrosive/heat on most enemies?  Bad news is corrosive heat will actually kill most of the enemies that either build is aimed at a fair amount faster.  Worse news is that a primary with better crit could just go viral/HM and have the best of all worlds.  I thought about the electric being useful against shields with that sort of build too, unfortunately electric doesn't do much damage, and the proc damage basically doesn't matter even against shields.

Not that either heat combo applies, since neither can be used with this....

On 2020-03-26 at 3:59 PM, SpringRocker said:

It's not a crit weapon, just wanted to point that out.

Primaries with 10%/2.0 base crit stats are crit weapons.  Learn to do math.

On another point, and for everyone's edification, it takes about half a second of not firing for the Basmu to reload from near-empty.  The reload only starts after 0.2s.

On 2020-03-27 at 12:44 AM, 0meg4x said:

Another thing that doesn't help the Alt Fire is the fact that it doesn't have the 0.5 ammo consumed per second as every other Beam Held weapon has...

Pretty sure it's 0.5 ammo consumed per fire rate per second for beams, so for this that should be 6/s before mods.  If it's actually using 1 per fire rate per second... yeah alt fire is absolutely horrid because that means it's firing more than half its battery before it even finishes ramping its damage up from 0.2x to full.  I'll go test 'cause I don't remember off the top of my head.

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After testing, yes, the beam does use ammo just as fast as the primary fire, so that's probably bugged.

As for exploiting Vigilante set mods on a sentinel... you guys know that:

1:  That's not intended according to DE.

2:  That's going to get fixed according to DE.

Right?

Now, the Vigilante set mods ARE an excellent idea, for the alt fire, so I'll go test that too, weak as it is.  No, I'm not going to exploit, going to above-table test them on the weapon itself.  Considering it only gets +22.5% crit chance on the primary fire from crit mods anyyway, it might be half decent in both modes.

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After further testing of the beam, something is very wrong with it.

Testing with beam with Hunter Munitions and full Vigilante set, primary fire takes set bonus into account, beam does something wrong with it.  Instead of getting about 1/3 of ticks as crits on the secondary, I'm getting maybe 1/30th or one 50th, and most bizarrely it does orange crits at rather close to the same rate as yellow crits.  Unsurprisingly since it's calculating its crit chance wrong somehow, instead of getting around six procs of Hunter Munitions per magazine, I get about one per six or seven full magazines.  So much for viral HM on the beam with Vigilante Set crits!  Forward unto KritKat!

Tested Adarza, works correctly.  I don't have the patience to wait for random Smeeta buff for crit, it takes longer than you'd believe if you get even a bit unlucky.

Oh yeah, I tried to headshot with the beam by aimgliding up above enemies to try to make it track to their heads.  No dice, it phases through their bodies to hit their torsos no matter what angle, so headcrits or headshots at all are literally impossible with the beams.

TL;DR:  The alt fire is horribad.  Doesn't work right with Vigilante mods, uses double ammo.  Makes headshots impossible.... can't kill a 170 CHG inside of a flipping full minute no matter what build that doesn't involve Harrow or KritKat buffs, and is still slow even with them.....

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4 hours ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Primaries with 10%/2.0 base crit stats are crit weapons.  Learn to do math.

A mod that does +15% DPS doesn't do anything... Compared to Serration that does +165% DPS.

The crit stats are low, mods don't do much to benefit them. Learn to do math, seriously.

Edited by SpringRocker
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My issue is it's nothing like the devstream preview we had... It was 6-7m visible explosions and actually did damage.

 

"It does do damage just try" no. It doesn't. Base stats are simply unusable.

Why would I not just use bramma or melee? 

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I think part of the problem, aside from the alt-fire potentially being broken, is the audio cues for remaining shots and recharging are almost impossible to hear and missing, respectively. The almost instant recharge is great but it feels really bad to hit the full reload (Unless you want to, and then only on the primary fire! But that's good when you're using it), and there's no "recharged" sound.

Feedback here:

 

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