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thelasttand

Digital Extreme is slowly switching to the dark side

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i had a somewhat bad taste in the mouth after the lich update.
railjack release left me with heavy concerne about the future of the game.
scarlet mission started to scare me.

for some time now there is more and more differences between what DE tease us with and what we got in the end.
more and more promises not kept and semi empty updates to broken ones..

i think the new scarlet mission update just rang the alarm. something is not right in the current warframe development/decision's team.

■ new content get more and more grindy to hide the fact that there is less and less content to grind for.

■ new missions  are getting simplier and duller.

■ repetitivness is getting stronger and stronger with less and less choice of mission type to progress through the new content.

■ the game is getting easier to beat. (the changes that came with the new status changes are okay, i do enjoy the fresh new changes, but monsters didn't got any behavior/AI upgrade leading to having the same dumb fodder ennemies with less constitution than before and missions are still at the same levels of monsters)

■ scarlet missions are just plain boring and totally uninspired.


i feel like DE doesn't even give us what they have planned for us and just glue unfinished stuff together because they set up 5themselves,° a release shedule.
the worst thing is that the last update (scarlet missions) make me not want to play the game, and that scares me. i was proud of the game, looking proudly at trailers, streamers who would discover the game for the first time. thinking about about cool feature would come with future updates, overhyped with tenocon 2019 and its railjack tease.. but thats not the case anymore.

there is enough companies with BS promises, S#&$ty microtransaction and broken/unfinished game release out there. i don't want warframe to also take that path.

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Me too Me too. I guess their good time is gone or wasnt even there if you want to be cynical. Whatever it was why the lost the track I lost my faith into them.

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I personally am okay with grindy contents but not okay to play grindy contents with nerfed dump gears. DE is trying to fix or break things that aren’t broken and spending too little time to polish and release new contents like what they did so well in 2017-2018. 

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Grindy is okay.

Grindy while the reward cost is obviously too high is not okay.

And on top of that the event is buggy as hell is totally not okay.

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Posted (edited)

I have known warframe since 2013 (closed beta player) and I have to agree on this post.

As of late, I honestly haven't felt anything new or fun to play in warframe. Please bring up a decent quest again instead of all these *new* grind-in-loop-stuff-to-get-nowhere.

Edited by centaurius
typo fix
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Posted (edited)

I started noticing this trend last year too. There's a lot less actual content, but it was excused with Railjack being a major draw on resources because of how big its scope was.

However, none of these promised systems have yet to be released except for an extremely barebones railjack experience which quite honestly burnt me out in less than 20 missions or so. The Kuva Lich was devoid of any actual lore except for a cinematic and some loose dialogue. Why Kuva liches? What is their goal? Where is the story going? Why am I killing them? Why do I even care? There's just a huge grind with both these new systems and there's just no reason to invest into it. Same goes for Railjack where the meager content was hidden behind hours of grinding as well. Content which we later thankfully got to experience without that insane investment in time. But overall, if I'd gone the distance, i'd been extremely disappointed in that reveal.

To be honest, between this and the pointless meta reshuffle that was the recent mainline, it feels like DE have lost their way down the dollar hole.

Edited by Countess_Hapmuhr
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Countess_Hapmuhr:

I started noticing this trend last year too. There's a lot less actual content, but it was excused with Railjack being a major draw on resources because of how big its scope was.

However, none of these promised systems have yet to be released except for an extremely barebones railjack experience which quite honestly burnt me out in less than 20 missions or so. The Kuva Lich was devoid of any actual lore except for a cinematic and some loose dialogue. Why Kuva liches? What is their goal? Where is the story going? Why am I killing them? Why do I even care? There's just a huge grind with both these new systems and there's just no reason to invest into it. Same goes for Railjack where the meager content was hidden behind hours of grinding as well. Content which we later thankfully got to experience without that insane investment in time. But overall, if I'd gone the distance, i'd been extremely disappointed in that reveal.

To be honest, between this and the pointless meta reshuffle that was the recent mainline, it feels like DE have lost their way down the dollar hole.

The Lichs are actually my biggest gripe, they are suppsoed ot hunt you, yet we farm them for rewards instead, i mean nothing bad but it defeats the purpsoe of a supposed "Nemesis" that hunts and adapts to you, maybe it should be one that keeps changing overtime and switching weapons instead with chances of dropping each and it being normal weapons instead of this % elemental crap we goten, on top of RNG on RNG on top of 5 forma to mastery it without any bonus like the Paracesis.

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How is any of this new?

It has been like this since I started in 2017. We grind a thing to get something we need on the same map in the same mode over and over. Scarlet Spear is no different than Thermia Fractures, which in turn is no different than Plague Star. Well Thermia Fractures didnt have a vendor tied to it. I didnt really expect more from SS, so I wasnt really disappointed either. The mode works and is enjoyable enough for the thing I'll use it for, which is grinding arcanes. It is many times more enjoyable than eidolons.

Kuva weapon leveling is the only part that feels like something more grindy and repetative due to the forma cost tied to it and the lack of power gained from it in return, unlike Paracesis that actually grew in power for a specific role.

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Sometimes I wonder if some of those in charge are even more burnt out on the game than a part of the playerbase.

It's been pretty clear that the increase in grind is intentional. If the route ahead is one of insane levels of mindless grind then I'd rather just pay $60 for a game with reasonable progression (and actual fun).

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I usually don't engage in this kind of discussion but I gotta say that I don't understand the amount of hate (for the lack of a better word) DE is getting about Scarlet Spear. This even is going to stay around for a month and I see tons of people complaining about rewards being too small. The best one, in terms of ridiculousness, I saw, was a dude saying that he went on ground assault, scanned ONE Condrix and exit the game when he saw that he got 15 credits for it. Then he proceeded to go on reddit and say that it's too grindy, don't respect his time, etc etc. If he put the time and energy he wasted on typing that post into actually playing the content, his rewards would be at least 20 times better.

In my opinion, the real problems with Scarlet Spear are as follows:

- bugs making people not getting their rewards

- bugs who make playing the event frustrating (receiving kill codes)

- no clarity in presenting the way in which rewards are gained

Two first are being worked on. The third is the general problem of Warframe and a topic for entirely different discussion.

The credit rewards themselves are not that bad. You can get the weapons, decorations, new forma, few arcanes or whatever you want from Little Duck by playing the event for around 2 hours a day not even on every day of the week, because, as I've said, it's going to stay for a month. Unless you're counting 21 copies of every single arcane but I doubt many people want to get all of them. And even if they do, the arcanes are not new, they come from eidolons and are tradeable so it's not like you are forced to farm Scarlet Spear because you have no other chance to get them.

The Scarlet Spear missions being boring and too simple/dull is a matter of opinion. I think the ground assault is really fun and it is suited for a much larger numer of warframes than I'd ever expect. The space missions are a bit too difficult after the third Murix due to very high enemy level. This is easily solved by having Limbo in your squad but that makes him a must have, while as I said, the ground assault don't have too strict "meta comp".

I'm not saying that I agree and support all of the decisions DE has made with recent content drops. Liches were dreadful when they were introduced. Then, with the addition of trading, shared murmurs from stab attempts, optional larvling kills and larvlings having a marker saying what weapon they're going to have, they became acceptable. Now you can get a very powerful weapon in around 2 hours required to vanquish a lich. The lich system has also introduced a way to play high level missions without having to stay on a single endless mission for who knows how long.

Railjack had (has) different problems. The initial amount of grind required to build a railjack was not rewarded by railjack content itself. I wouldn't see a problem with previous building requirements if veil missions were more developed and fun. Unfortunately, this is still the case. Cutting the resources and time required to build a railjack doesn't fix that. In the best case, much more people are going to start doing veil missions but they will still get bored quickly. I know that the railjack content is going to be expanded and I hope it is going to be worth our time eventually but in this case I have mixed feelings about releasing it in a state it was released.

I don't even know what I wanted to say anymore. For me, Warframe has always been a grind leading to another grind. Ultimately, all you achieved were higher numbers here and there. I've never had much of a problem with that as long as the grind itself had at least a little bit fun in it. For me, Scarlet Spear has that spark of fun and it's not even the grindest grind of all times.

Those are my three cents. I don't want to argue with anybody and will probably never look into this thread again. I just wanted to share my (unpopular I think?) opinion.

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I understand the lack of variety of the content presented as in mission choices to actually progress through the event, and the cost of the railjack and rewards being stupidly high, i also dont like the fact it is behind the fact i need other players to do the railjack as i like to play with my friend only, now i am forced to play with other people i dont want, but saying that warframe is grindy when we literally have been grinding since the game existed i don't see that as a thing, Warframe IS all about GRINDING, besides, aside from single player story games like devil may cry and god knows what, every game has a repetitiveness anyway, i play ff 14 and its the same as warframe, i just keep doign the same things everyday over and over, these are grindy games, ff 14 has a bit more variety but the concept of grindiness is the same, and that is something that doesnt need to be fixed, but the cost of the railjack and the cost of those rewards -.-, it makes me not feel like playing not only that i cant do Railjacks i dont have a squad, i got my friend which plays when he can but thats it, and i like it this way, so that means a part of the content is well blocked for me, what am i gona do, farm earth missions all day-.-.... this sucksi like space stuff but great to be efective or sucesfull i need 4 players to be able to manage it....

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49 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is any of this new?

Why would it need to be new to be worth talking about?

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They are just running out of ideas, after 7 long years, they need fresh blood !!

 

:thinking:

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Posted (edited)

Well the last time they made something fun (raid), its somewhat got a lot of bug (caused by lag). Ever since its seems DE choose to make more smaller scale content but with somehow same level of bug as raid.

They prob also ran out of implementable idea while working on big things and too much focus on that. Scarlet spear is one of the result, not too fun for vet, helish for newcomer squad (like seriously, how mk1-paris going to do anything much even at ground).

And they def. not expecting covid level disaster, giving us less quality stuff to do since they push thing on deadline.

Edited by TheFalseEclipse
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I'm not sure how the current event (or even railjack) is additionally more grindy than the rest of the game. You're determining this based on the fact the event rewards a consistent amount of points based on how long you stay per session, which lets you know exactly how long you take to get x, where as the rest of the game is largely determined entirely by RNG. I was able to already get both blueprints without taking much time, and this is all with having to deal with the bug where I'm not getting any bonuses, or the incorrect bonus, when the relay gets 100/100; meaning I'm getting significantly less rewards than I should be.

Compare that to the other two weapons that were added with railjack, I only got one of the blueprints to drop and had to give up and buy the other one, the mission where these drop don't really even reward anything else. I spent more game time trying to get just one of these, than it took to get both blueprints from the current event. Even then, Railjack drops weren't any different to the rest of the game either... Other parts of the game has low drop rates for weapons/warframe blueprints and sub 1% drop chances for mods too.

I just feel like a lot of people forgot how much they did grind for most of the game, and having to start all over again with Railjack upset them.

Warframe was also never a game about actually difficulty, it's just a stat check game. You either have enough stats to kill enemies quickly, or you don't. This is why people didn't like high level enemies, some weapons were completely unusable after a point against Grineer. The skill factor only comes into play when it comes to efficiency finishing non-endless missions significantly quicker due to better movement, being able to accumulate rewards quicker than others due to better compositions or load outs, etc. For Warframe to lean more towards skill play, they would've had to adopt combat closer to traditional action combat games, but that's not really possible because we have unrestricted movement, and I don't think it's safe to limit bullet jumping at this point; nullifiers, energy leeches, and drones already upset people enough as it is, and neither really add difficulty but serve more as an inconvenience.

New mission variance I can agree with, railjack had a lot of nodes but were all the same mission with a handful having an extra objective, but they were all the same aside for the assassination one. Kuva Liches came out and just re-used older nodes, with many converted to exterminate, and SS is just two different missions.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, -Loko- said:

while as I said, the ground assault don't have too strict "meta comp".

 

meta has not been realised by noobs yet.

mesa chroma rhino limbo can do 17waves 20-25min.  need good weapons and teamwork which is kind of fun at the start

Edited by kengxiaoju
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4 hours ago, thelasttand said:

here is enough companies with BS promises, S#&$ty microtransaction and broken/unfinished game release out there. i don't want warframe to also take that path.

I think it already has. 

I also think Warframe has run its course. 

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Posted (edited)

Ok, let's compare Plague Star and Scarlet Spear.

Plague Star.

Mobile defense and Assassination mission.

Join any time you want.

Do the mission solo or in party, solo it can be a BIT longer and tougher, but you can get the same reward.

You get reward at the end of the mission, and you can spend rewards at vendor.

You can get some bugs with Grineer's Thrax Toxin or Hemocye, but mission is short and you can redo it fast.

Scarlet Spear.

Defense mission.

We have to wait for a timer - bugs. Also, time gating on limited time event with a lot of grind?

We have to play in party and play at least 25 min, because of scaling reward, playing solo is not en option (only if you exploit with RJ) - bugs.

We have new relay to start mission from - bugs.

We have to wait for 100/100 - bugs.

We have squad link - bugs.

Bonus rewards - insane amount of bugs.

Question is why all of the above exists in a simple defense mission.

 

Edited by Sadraven
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Posted (edited)

I'm not saying that your bullet points are something we should openly accept, but how strong are your rose tinted glasses?

Warframe updates have always been buggy. The first major event Warframe had was basically just a glorified sabotage mission 100 times. Other events were the flipside where you only needed to do the mission once. New content has always been buggy, UI 2.0 still reigns supreme in my mind as the worst because the whole game became basically unplayable. When Frost Prime initially released some of his parts had sub 1% drop chances. 

 

So on to the title, is DE "slowly switching to the dark side?" No, DE is doing DE things. They always mean the best but struggle with implementation. We still need to be critical of new content, but doomsaying that DE is becoming evil is counterproductive to the issues at hand. Take off the tinfoil hat, it doesn't look good on you. 

Edited by DrBorris
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Why would it need to be new to be worth talking about?

Because he's implying it is slowly switching when it has been pretty much the same for soon 3 years (or more, but I can only speak from my own experience here). So it has been about the same for around 40% or more of its life. 

Edited by SneakyErvin
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13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Because he's implying it is slowly switching when it has been pretty much the same for soon 3 years (or more, but I can only speak from my own experience here). So it has been about the same for around 40% or more of its life. 

Hence the "slowly" part.

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3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Hence the "slowly" part.

So slowly now means standing still? Gotcha.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So slowly now means standing still? Gotcha.

If your memory is failing you, maybe you should read the wiki articles about the old limited-time events and what their reward requirements were. None of them were anywhere close to this BS.

Edited by SordidDreams

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3 hours ago, -Loko- said:

I usually don't engage in this kind of discussion but I gotta say that I don't understand the amount of hate (for the lack of a better word) DE is getting about Scarlet Spear. This even is going to stay around for a month and I see tons of people complaining about rewards being too small. The best one, in terms of ridiculousness, I saw, was a dude saying that he went on ground assault, scanned ONE Condrix and exit the game when he saw that he got 15 credits for it. Then he proceeded to go on reddit and say that it's too grindy, don't respect his time, etc etc. If he put the time and energy he wasted on typing that post into actually playing the content, his rewards would be at least 20 times better.

In my opinion, the real problems with Scarlet Spear are as follows:

- bugs making people not getting their rewards

- bugs who make playing the event frustrating (receiving kill codes)

- no clarity in presenting the way in which rewards are gained

Two first are being worked on. The third is the general problem of Warframe and a topic for entirely different discussion.

The credit rewards themselves are not that bad. You can get the weapons, decorations, new forma, few arcanes or whatever you want from Little Duck by playing the event for around 2 hours a day not even on every day of the week, because, as I've said, it's going to stay for a month. Unless you're counting 21 copies of every single arcane but I doubt many people want to get all of them. And even if they do, the arcanes are not new, they come from eidolons and are tradeable so it's not like you are forced to farm Scarlet Spear because you have no other chance to get them.

The Scarlet Spear missions being boring and too simple/dull is a matter of opinion. I think the ground assault is really fun and it is suited for a much larger numer of warframes than I'd ever expect. The space missions are a bit too difficult after the third Murix due to very high enemy level. This is easily solved by having Limbo in your squad but that makes him a must have, while as I said, the ground assault don't have too strict "meta comp".

I'm not saying that I agree and support all of the decisions DE has made with recent content drops. Liches were dreadful when they were introduced. Then, with the addition of trading, shared murmurs from stab attempts, optional larvling kills and larvlings having a marker saying what weapon they're going to have, they became acceptable. Now you can get a very powerful weapon in around 2 hours required to vanquish a lich. The lich system has also introduced a way to play high level missions without having to stay on a single endless mission for who knows how long.

Railjack had (has) different problems. The initial amount of grind required to build a railjack was not rewarded by railjack content itself. I wouldn't see a problem with previous building requirements if veil missions were more developed and fun. Unfortunately, this is still the case. Cutting the resources and time required to build a railjack doesn't fix that. In the best case, much more people are going to start doing veil missions but they will still get bored quickly. I know that the railjack content is going to be expanded and I hope it is going to be worth our time eventually but in this case I have mixed feelings about releasing it in a state it was released.

I don't even know what I wanted to say anymore. For me, Warframe has always been a grind leading to another grind. Ultimately, all you achieved were higher numbers here and there. I've never had much of a problem with that as long as the grind itself had at least a little bit fun in it. For me, Scarlet Spear has that spark of fun and it's not even the grindest grind of all times.

Those are my three cents. I don't want to argue with anybody and will probably never look into this thread again. I just wanted to share my (unpopular I think?) opinion.

"The best one, in terms of ridiculousness, I saw, was a dude saying that he went on ground assault, scanned ONE Condrix and exit the game when he saw that he got 15 credits for it. Then he proceeded to go on reddit and say that it's too grindy"

People like that are literally expecting to get everything in 2 days. Their opinion simply has to be dismissed. This event is to acquire some things, but not everything.... and that makes irrational completionists angry lol.

I got a lot of stuff for my first Plague Star: I spammed it until it wasnt fun and got some of the famous items like Contagion etc. I was happy with my loot even though I didnt get everything I wanted. I'll get more next year.

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