Digital Extreme is slowly switching to the dark side

[Mephane]

4 hours ago, -Loko- said:

This even is going to stay around for a month

This is the elephant in the room. Were this a permanent content addition the grindiness wouldn't be nearly as bad, you could stretch it out however long you want. But no, due to the time-limited nature, you gotta go grind hard right now.

[SneakyErvin]

17 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

If your memory is failing you, maybe you should read the wiki articles about the old limited-time events and what their reward requirements were. None of them were anywhere close to this BS.

The requirement for which rewards and which events specifically? Would help to know what you are actually refering to between the events.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

DE is doing DE things.

That doesn't specifically mean they aren't moving in a perceptibly darker direction though.

Content and item acquisition has been progressively grindier for less result for years now.

New content suffers from the same implementation hurdles/failures as old content releases did even with consistent feedback.

Time taken to release content from initial announcement seems to increase each year... Story driven content times definitely increase year over year.

If they know these are potential pain points and they don't make steps to meaningfully address them then you can only conclude that they are comfortable with them as-is.

That's a reasonable conclusion to have regardless of rose-tinted glasses, tin foils hats, or horse-blinders tbh. 

 

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The requirement for which rewards and which events specifically? Would help to know what you are actually refering to between the events.

If your memory is failing you and you don't remember what the previous events were, the wiki has a handy list.

Edited March 26, 2020 by SordidDreams

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Your your memory is failing you and you don't remember what the previous events were, the wiki has a handy list.

I'm still wondering what the differences were that makes this event BS?

The only thing currently that makes this event wonky with rewards is due to bugs. Last I checked bugs arent a feature.

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, thelasttand said:

for some time now there is more and more differences between what DE tease us with and what we got in the end.

Most of this is a consequence of the game literally not being built for Railjack. I too would love Liches to be killed with a final raid against their battleship using a more functional version of Squad Link, but the game is literally not built for it. I can't even imagine the nightmare of spaghetti code the game is currently running on

At least with the "Warframe Revised" updates so far, they've been going in and fixing some of the engine that so desperately needs some TLC

[SordidDreams]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm still wondering what the differences were that makes this event BS?

The only thing currently that makes this event wonky with rewards is due to bugs. Last I checked bugs arent a feature.

That's why I told you to read up on it. Maybe you should actually do that. And read up on how DR and health regen work while you're at it. But I think we both know you're not going to do that, because you're not interested in learning, you just want to be contrarian to me.

Edited March 26, 2020 by SordidDreams

[Alexcavalera]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

"The best one, in terms of ridiculousness, I saw, was a dude saying that he went on ground assault, scanned ONE Condrix and exit the game when he saw that he got 15 credits for it. Then he proceeded to go on reddit and say that it's too grindy"

People like that are literally expecting to get everything in 2 days. Their opinion simply has to be dismissed. This event is to acquire some things, but not everything.... and that makes irrational completionists angry lol.

I got a lot of stuff for my first Plague Star: I spammed it until it wasnt fun and got some of the famous items like Contagion etc. I was happy with my loot even though I didnt get everything I wanted. I'll get more next year.

This! Completely right! people want all the loot in hours, not in days!

[thelasttand]

Il y a 5 heures, Hugedeal a dit :

Warframe IS all about GRINDING

to stay engaged in a game you need to keep thinking.
the grind start when the fun end.

[(PSN)drollive96]

Its like they dont know what they're doing anymore, perhaps there is some internal conflict going on behind the scenes that we're not aware of? 

[ValinorAtani]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Alexcavalera:

This! Completely right! people want all the loot in hours, not in days!

Nah, I want to play games on my time schedule when I have time, not when some mighty boneheaded developer thinks I have to play like his school schedule. I dont care if I have to play 2 weeks for an amp or running x mission to get what I want. The problem is that they want to force it. In my opinion it makes things worse and in the longevity unhealthier.

Who cares if somebody in 2 years could still play the events? Just block any leaderboards after certain timeframe and no one would care if a newbie got the same arcanes, cosmetics whatever years later. Thats in my pov just plain stupid gamedesign and a waste of development time and ressources as well. Heck we could have so much more to play during the next big thing if their former events were still there. My bet there would be alot of poeple who wants to enjoy it with their friends again who started Warframe few days ago.

Some of the USPs of Warframe was the community. The Problem it that DE is catering toxic beheaviour with those releases. Ground team get you S#&$ done etc. etc. And dont forget this stupid 100/100 relay nonsense? There is no purpose from a gamemechanical view to do timegate it like that. I mean why doesnt they made the numbers indefinitely and every 100 murex there could be a check who and how much participated. No one would be excluded to get the right relay at the right time.

[-Jorsch-]

27 minutes ago, Alexcavalera said:

This! Completely right! people want all the loot in hours, not in days!

There's no reason why you should be expected to put days worth of grind into getting an event weapon. I'm trying real hard, and failing, to even name a weapon/grind that is as bad as Scarlet Spear's acquisition rate is.

What happened to DE saying they didn't want to make this event a grind for the arcanes?

Edited March 26, 2020 by -Jorsch-

[Goodwill]

No, DE is just doing DE. Nothing has really changed if you've been following Warframe closely. Grind has always been there, bugs have always been there, this is Warframe and I can guarantee you, it will be the same for many years to come. If you ever thought Warframe was "better" before, that is merely your personal perception. There is no objective truth to it.

I have my gripes with Scarlet Spear, but I would not count this as a downward trend or out of the ordinary for Warframe or DE.

[thelasttand]

Il y a 3 heures, DrBorris a dit :

So on to the title, is DE "slowly switching to the dark side?" No, DE is doing DE things. They always mean the best but struggle with implementation. We still need to be critical of new content, but doomsaying that DE is becoming evil is counterproductive to the issues at hand. Take off the tinfoil hat, it doesn't look good on you. 

it feels like they are less engaged in their games and more akin to respect shedules for new updates no matter its state.
it feels like the decision making team in DE do not know what they are doing and experiment on things which in the end gives us poor new updates where lack of content is hidden behind a bigger grind. they don't even follow their promises anymore (or what they intended to do in the first place).
and the other problem is that they try to keep up with their own shedule which makes it difficult for them to put more time and effort into previoous content to change it to what they initially wanted to do. or they just stopped caring.

hence the dark side.
nothing to do with being evil.

[thelasttand]

Il y a 1 heure, Padre_Akais a dit :

That doesn't specifically mean they aren't moving in a perceptibly darker direction though.

Content and item acquisition has been progressively grindier for less result for years now.

New content suffers from the same implementation hurdles/failures as old content releases did even with consistent feedback.

Time taken to release content from initial announcement seems to increase each year... Story driven content times definitely increase year over year.

If they know these are potential pain points and they don't make steps to meaningfully address them then you can only conclude that they are comfortable with them as-is.

That's a reasonable conclusion to have regardless of rose-tinted glasses, tin foils hats, or horse-blinders tbh. 

^ this.

[condimentking]

Starts by adding new variety of gamemodes for the railjack instead of exterminate with a touch of sabotage and assassination... .

Make the same variety as the normal mission, at least... .

Not that original idea, but i think it will work... .

[---RNGesus---]

5 hours ago, Sadraven said:

Scarlet Spear.

Defense mission.

We have to wait for a timer - bugs. Also, time gating on limited time event with a lot of grind?

We have to play in party and play at least 25 min, because of scaling reward, playing solo is not en option (only if you exploit with RJ) - bugs.

We have new relay to start mission from - bugs.

We have to wait for 100/100 - bugs.

We have squad link - bugs.

Bonus rewards - insane amount of bugs.

Question is why all of the above exists in a simple defense mission.

 

You forgot what DE excels in most........making bugs.

[AVSManfred]

9 hours ago, thelasttand said:

i had a somewhat bad taste in the mouth after the lich update.
railjack release left me with heavy concerne about the future of the game.
scarlet mission started to scare me.

for some time now there is more and more differences between what DE tease us with and what we got in the end.
more and more promises not kept and semi empty updates to broken ones..

i think the new scarlet mission update just rang the alarm. something is not right in the current warframe development/decision's team.

■ new content get more and more grindy to hide the fact that there is less and less content to grind for.

■ new missions  are getting simplier and duller.

■ repetitivness is getting stronger and stronger with less and less choice of mission type to progress through the new content.

■ the game is getting easier to beat. (the changes that came with the new status changes are okay, i do enjoy the fresh new changes, but monsters didn't got any behavior/AI upgrade leading to having the same dumb fodder ennemies with less constitution than before and missions are still at the same levels of monsters)

■ scarlet missions are just plain boring and totally uninspired.


i feel like DE doesn't even give us what they have planned for us and just glue unfinished stuff together because they set up 5themselves,° a release shedule.
the worst thing is that the last update (scarlet missions) make me not want to play the game, and that scares me. i was proud of the game, looking proudly at trailers, streamers who would discover the game for the first time. thinking about about cool feature would come with future updates, overhyped with tenocon 2019 and its railjack tease.. but thats not the case anymore.

there is enough companies with BS promises, S#&$ty microtransaction and broken/unfinished game release out there. i don't want warframe to also take that path.

Slowly, but since quite a while, like many ppl haven't noticed it btu it all started with War Within [DE]lays

[xMarvin732]

5 hours ago, Sadraven said:

Ok, let's compare Plague Star and Scarlet Spear.

Plague Star.

Mobile defense and Assassination mission.

Join any time you want.

Do the mission solo or in party, solo it can be a BIT longer and tougher, but you can get the same reward.

You get reward at the end of the mission, and you can spend rewards at vendor.

You can get some bugs with Grineer's Thrax Toxin or Hemocye, but mission is short and you can redo it fast.

Scarlet Spear.

Defense mission.

We have to wait for a timer - bugs. Also, time gating on limited time event with a lot of grind?

We have to play in party and play at least 25 min, because of scaling reward, playing solo is not en option (only if you exploit with RJ) - bugs.

We have new relay to start mission from - bugs.

We have to wait for 100/100 - bugs.

We have squad link - bugs.

Bonus rewards - insane amount of bugs.

Question is why all of the above exists in a simple defense mission.

 

The sad problem is, they dont really test run it their own, they release Scarlet Spear just to be extremely buggy

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It began once they stopped automatically giving you the anniversary rewards imo, you had to sign in and do a mission to get them and that change got no pushback. I accepted that loss since most if not all these games do this sort of stuff but once the community gives ground they get more confidant they can change things without upsetting the customer.

 

I've said it before but how they handled the Kuva Lich's is where I lost all that I've felt with this game, it was painfully obvious something was up. Even now, look at how they're handling the anniversary rewards. Slowly handing them out and no longer doing them at once? I thought the community pushback would make them focus but I think they got spooked after Railjack and are doing anything to get the numbers up again, which includes the arcane tweaks which is where I bowed out. All they had to do is make it so you can't equip 2 at the same time but they got greedy and took the extra step of making it so you'll need more to rank the arcanes up to a new maximum after nerfing them. They played themselves and then showed the tone deafness with the event and the reward prices, same rewards meant to entice "Veterans" who lost out on their arcanes they worked hard or paid plat for.

 

I think at some point people will have to ask themselves if the game has reached its peak. There has been a serious lack of vision imo that everyone can rally behind and because of that the game is floundering and all they have left is trying to keep the money train moving at all costs, even if they shoot themselves in the foot doing it.

[Redfeather75]

Well I went back to playing Destiny 2 yesterday and I found out that a lot of cool content is gone because the season ended. And the new content is about farming public events for warbits to upgrade bunkers. But you have to pay $10 to even do that. So warframe still has a way to go before it gets really bad!

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, -Jorsch- said:

There's no reason why you should be expected to put days worth of grind into getting an event weapon. I'm trying real hard, and failing, to even name a weapon/grind that is as bad as Scarlet Spear's acquisition rate is.

What happened to DE saying they didn't want to make this event a grind for the arcanes?

This is definitely changing with online games as of now, and it's good for the masses, but it was completely common for people to wait weeks or months due to RNG for a lot of stuff. 

So theres no real reason, but it's not rare like you make it sound i.e. the "people shouldn't be expected to wait for anything" philosophy.

You actually have to wait and work towards a lot of stuff in games....

[Sovyul]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

This is definitely changing with online games as of now, and it's good for the masses, but it was completely common for people to wait weeks or months due to RNG for a lot of stuff. 

But they still got rewarded with things on the way there. A primary example of this in Warframe would be the resource grind to craft Wisp and Fulmin, the Hexenon part specifically. Thanks to that, Wisp is not only in the process of building, but now I'm also stocked with neural sensors for months, which is always needed for forma.

My major gripe with new content is that it's grind gated. You must grind something that holds no value to you gameplay wise, so you can grind for another thing that's worthless to you, and then grind for nothing again, and THEN you can grind for the thing you wanted? That's just so BS.

There's a big difference between choosing to do something because you feel that you're ready to do it, and being forced to do countless other artificial boring sh*t so you can access game content. This is not the same as leveling a character in WoW from 1 to 80 so you can raid. Take Law of Retribution for example, you could do that raid whenever you felt like you're ready to do it, no grind access required. You decided to want to do it, so you went like "i'm going to use this frame, with this loadout". But now? If you decide to hunt eidolons you are forced to grind for operator equipment (which you'll barely use anywhere else), grind reputation for two factions, go mining, go fishing, otherwise no eidolons for you bro.

[-BG-StormFighter117]

17 hours ago, thelasttand said:

i had a somewhat bad taste in the mouth after the lich update.
railjack release left me with heavy concerne about the future of the game.
scarlet mission started to scare me.

for some time now there is more and more differences between what DE tease us with and what we got in the end.
more and more promises not kept and semi empty updates to broken ones..

i think the new scarlet mission update just rang the alarm. something is not right in the current warframe development/decision's team.

■ new content get more and more grindy to hide the fact that there is less and less content to grind for.

■ new missions  are getting simplier and duller.

■ repetitivness is getting stronger and stronger with less and less choice of mission type to progress through the new content.

■ the game is getting easier to beat. (the changes that came with the new status changes are okay, i do enjoy the fresh new changes, but monsters didn't got any behavior/AI upgrade leading to having the same dumb fodder ennemies with less constitution than before and missions are still at the same levels of monsters)

■ scarlet missions are just plain boring and totally uninspired.


i feel like DE doesn't even give us what they have planned for us and just glue unfinished stuff together because they set up 5themselves,° a release shedule.
the worst thing is that the last update (scarlet missions) make me not want to play the game, and that scares me. i was proud of the game, looking proudly at trailers, streamers who would discover the game for the first time. thinking about about cool feature would come with future updates, overhyped with tenocon 2019 and its railjack tease.. but thats not the case anymore.

there is enough companies with BS promises, S#&$ty microtransaction and broken/unfinished game release out there. i don't want warframe to also take that path.

Welcome to Warframe 🙂

 

Remember when they said "Temporary Armistice?"  Yikes

[centaurius]

On 2020-03-26 at 8:17 PM, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays said:

I've said it before but how they handled the Kuva Lich's is where I lost all that I've felt with this game, it was painfully obvious something was up.

(...) They played themselves and then showed the tone deafness with the event and the reward prices, same rewards meant to entice "Veterans" who lost out on their arcanes they worked hard or paid plat for.

I think at some point people will have to ask themselves if the game has reached its peak. (...)

After more than 3400 hours (Registered on steam and so much more off record reading in wiki warframe) I totally agree on this. Since Kuva Linch came out I've honestly started caring less and less for this game, doing only the ocasional sortie (*/sarcasm on* to get ENDO or KUVA */sarcasm off*). The arcanes new "maximum" is just non-sense and yes it's like a slap in veterans who have been maxed those ages ago.

IMHO the peak as far as I see came in Orb Vallis probably, a refined vision of the open world concept they've started with Plains of Eidolon.

Empyrean is a bit far stretched, although in theory concept seems great. However I can see why DE started with this new game mode inside a established game with large player base, and it might be related to other games they were trying to push like "The Amazing Eternals" which was canceled after that closed beta didn't see much interest.

 

DE has bills to pay and they will continue to focus on Warframe which gives them constant cash flow, knowing a new game out of them won't reach that much of success in a flodded market of "free-2-play" games that exist today. Warframe f2p concept worked in 2013 (when I played in the closed beta) and they are still lingering to that 7 years later on. I would rather pay 20€/30€ for these new DLC's types they introduce knowing I would get an empyrean with upgrades ready to customize directly instead of spending so much time grinding for the new stuff that comes out.

 

Honestly because I don't have the time nowadays to dedicate to only 1 game when I have a 40/50 hours week-job. Sure I will still play it once and a while but I want to try out new games that exist out there on a tighter schedule. Even if most player base are younger and don't have a job yet, I'm sure there is school/college and time nowadays is essential to get things done. Grinding works for "content" to some extent, not for the "fun" part. But of course it's just my opinion.

Edited April 3, 2020 by centaurius