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[DE]Rebecca

Scarlet Spear: 2-Days In Feedback Top Items (+ Script Details!)

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Good to see you see that the community is way too unsatisfied. The fix for most of your issues is to know down the farm btw. Playing with pleasure for  a few hours is much better for the game than playing days while becoming frustrated for then quitting the game because of the burn. Also, a super easy fix for the liches is to have the thralls spawn into all kind of missions. The main issue with the murmur farming is that if you do that you have to do ONLY that. Instead if we could just do sortie, relics, etc etc we would not feel them at all. 

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Instead of doubling the event creds people have in their inventory, why not double the amount of their current operation score and convert that to creds? I contributed multiple thousands of points to a flotilla at one point and only got 210 creds from the inbox message. This compensation might as well not exist if all that's going to be doubled is a practically non-existent sum.

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30 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno! We are 2 days into Scarlet Spear - the shores have been rocky, but this list aims to address how we plan on making some of those rocks less jagged:

We will update with Dev’s plans for these as we get information:

Score Scripts
 

As the first 2 days have had numerous issues with Scarlet Credit payouts, we will be running a Script with the next Hotfix (27.3.4). The details are:

If you have accrued any Scarlet Credits, you will receive an Inbox upon login to grant you a duplicate of that amount. The duplicate amount of Scarlet Credits will be reflective of your total Scarlet Credit score over the entire Operation, regardless of if you spent it already.

For Example:
If you’ve earned 7,900 Scarlet Credits, you will receive an inbox with 7,900 more. 

Over the course of the Operation thus far, some of the top priority issues were related to receiving incorrect amounts of Scarlet Credits in Murex Raids as well as Victory Payout (as seen in Bugs / Issues below). The culmination of these issues in the beginning days of the Operation is a feel bad moment for sure, which is the reasoning behind the compensation Inbox. The Hotfix notes will detail our changes and fixes to address these Scoring issues.

Tutorials & Tips

We are adding a Tutorial and Tips section to Little Duck’s Screen in the Flotilla to give players more robust information within the game on how to approach the Operation and to answer common questions players might have.

Trade Wares

Since Little Duck’s collection of goods is still missing rare and legendary Arcanes, the question of when they are being added is being asked. We aren’t adding them until we have bugs and issues fixed, and Scoring balanced. 

Bugs / Issues

Some Known Issues: 

  1. Players were receiving the wrong amount of Victory Payout respective to the Rank which is earned in the Flotilla.
  2. Players were earning Victory Payout for Flotillas that didn’t reach 100/100 Murex Driven Away.
  3. Players who reached the 100/100 Murex Driven Away that jumped to a different Flotilla and played a mission, would not receive Victory Payout from the completed Flotilla once the timer expired.
  4. Not all players receive Scarlet Credits upon manual extraction from a Murex Raid mission.
  5. Not receiving Kill Codes in a Murex Raid even though players are uploading Codes in the Ground mission.
  6. Rejoining a Flotilla that you were booted from results in seeing no Flotilla chat or players, making it appear that no progress is happening and you’re deeply alone.
  7. Loading into a ‘zombie’ Flotilla with ‘Zero Murex Waves Detected’.
     

Meta Analysis:


Over the course of the past several months, there’s been a lot of repeated bad-to-mixed first impressions on new content releases.

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

That is not to say future Updates will be completely bug free (we’d never make a claim like this), but we hope to break out of the bad first impression cycle in a constructive way. Thank you for your patience!

Please see our past post here to catch up on what Hotfixes have covered, and check back here for updates:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1178297-scarlet-spear-launch-hour-feedback-top-items/?tab=comments#comment-11453263

 

Cheers, Tenno!

Thank you for always being the ace that you and your team is!

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24 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Meta Analysis:


Over the course of the past several months, there’s been a lot of repeated bad-to-mixed first impressions on new content releases.

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

This feels like an empty statement considering that the Warframe Revised update itself has been met with a lot of heavy criticisms (see: self-damage never needed removing, self-staggers/falloff is strictly worse for an experience and game-health, and that's just the one megathread of several) and there's been almost total radio silence on the broader scale of this, just some small ineffective patches over the gaping holes that the revision carved out.

Sometimes, even when we're saying you've taken a complete wrong turn that can't be solved by little number tweaks, we do know what we're talking about.

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Can you preoritize fixing the event to work, and put scoring issues and "fear of exploits" on the second plan?

Cause me and my friends wasted about 4 hours, w8ing for half an hour to recieve 9 kill codes, and recieved only ~700 points for that time

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So, what is next for OpLink?

Seeing how this is an Operation, it will likely go away in a month. OpLink only exists within this Operation, so how will OpLink be implemented within the rest of the game?

It's a cool concept, but will it just be for operations or will it be an actual in-game mechanic at some point?

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Gweredith said:

I feel bad for Rebb having to write these kinds of posts to douse the flames every time someone else messes up. 

As lead community manager I think that's quite fitting in her job description. I feel bad that they had to cancel Tennocon physically, the warframe partners and DE staff gather for drinks every year. 

 

 

Edited by Fire2box

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vor 32 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Over the course of the past several months, there’s been a lot of repeated bad-to-mixed first impressions on new content releases.

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

That is not to say future Updates will be completely bug free (we’d never make a claim like this), but we hope to break out of the bad first impression cycle in a constructive way. Thank you for your patience!

I'll believe it when I see it. Over the last months/years you have consistently been stuck in a loop of repeating the same king of mistakes again and again without ever learning from them.

Every single update I'm utterly baffled how obvious bad decision/mechanics are still published. It seems like you don't ever take 5 minutes to sit down and think if your great ideas for mechanics are even all that great. Flotillas are a bad idea and should be deleted. Squad link is a bad idea and should be deleted. Etc, etc, etc. And I don't see a single thing improving.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We apologize for this frustration.

You're saying the right words, but you keep making the same mistakes with each new game mode, event, and addition... 

I realize things are extraordinarily tough right now, so the fact you're hotfixing as fast as you are is honestly kind of astounding and should be commended. However in regards to your apology... and please do not think I mean this at any single person. I don't want 'you' Rebecca to feel like I'm aiming this at your head. This is intended to everyone at DE.

Stop talking. Start Doing. I'm tired of apologies and a cycle of repeating the same mistakes, then promises to fix those mistakes. You guys aren't that dense to not see that 'ok this ultra grind in the dog days event was the worst part of the event...maaayyybe it will be seen as a good thing here...' You people are intelligant, capible, and you're driven. Yet you keep falling in the same pit over... and over... and over again.

Edit: To put bluntly. Your biggest mistake, beyond even the stupid 'bonus' mechanic? Gearing the economy towards people using a meta squad. Gearing to explicitly EQUIRING the meta to have a chance of being able to do things in a timely manner shafts people who want to bring their favorite frame in, do a few rotations, get a few things here and there and for an hourish or so a day forget that the world is falling apart and they STILL have to take care of kids, log into work, figure out how the hell to get groceries, and all that entails.

Edited by MarrikBroom
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8 minutes ago, Genitive said:

It's nice that you acknowledge this.

Have you considered releasing a test/unstable version of Warframe client where you could test unreleased content with the help of players? I think it would be better than releasing buggy updates to the live game and frustrate people. I saw several comments suggesting something like that. I also remember you saying that some bugs don't appear on dev builds at all, so this more the reason to think about some kind of a test server.

5 minutes ago, MikeAboose said:

I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but this. Because right now it looks like you guys could use the extra help.

Many games have a public test server for this very reason, and for players to test upcoming content so that game-breaking bugs and/or poor tuning dont make it into the live build. While I never use a PTR personally, I can definitely see the value. Given the sheer number of variables it might not be as easy as it sounds, but DE would be wise to consider this.

I get that this event is supposed to take a month and the grind was tailored around that. Thing is, while a great number of people no doubt are able to dedicate a greater-than-normal amount of time to the game thanks to quarantine, some of us are still on the same schedule or have even less free time than normal. My business is considered 'essential' so I have to go work every day anyway: I don't get any more time to play this game than I normally do, and have little doubt that I'm not going to get far in this event. As much as I'd like to farm up at least one max-ranked Arcane Grace or Energize (if they're ever added) I dont think I'll be able to do that: just dont have enough time.

I guess it's a good thing I mostly ignore arcanes anyway. Im going for the Basmu and Ceti Lacera first. After that... well... we'll see.

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so... are you guys actually planning on making this event better/less bad or just patching the holes for now? the acknowledgement of releasing lackluster content is nice and all, but i'd really like to read something about easing the painful reward pace. this event is boring. the ground mission is a short loop repeated ad nauseam. you can't fix that anymore, so please reduce the grind so we don't lose our minds over running the exact same little thing for dozens of hours (not just to get the exclusive stuff, oh no, don't underestimate the value of arcanes). to be fair, i haven't run the Railjack mission yet, maybe it's more engaging than the Ground mission, though i'm not betting on it at this point. 
getting a victory payout is all but guaranteed (bugs aside), and i'm still not sure whether i should join a flotilla that's already made good progress and risk not having enough time to get decent points or join one that's just started and risk it not finishing at all. it's just... flawed by design and kinda frustrating, idk.
also 75k credits to help a squad is a bit much, especially since you don't even know if that squad is planning to continue its run regardless of the beacon's health. they might be on their way out and you'd just throw your credits away for nothing. but that one's really a minor point in all this...

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I'd like to preface this with the fact that I loved the Refresh update, with the exception of a few kinks that still need to be hammered out, that other threads and posts here and on reddit have made clear. Also, some of these people responding need to get a grip.

Like.

5 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

How about you fix that RJ crews are not receiving Kill Codes when ground is sending many?
It is the core part of this event and it is extremely unstable!

You said this within 4 minutes of her saying this exact thing is being addressed/targeted by DE. Read the post. For blind venting, go to the reddit Thursday vent thread.

 

15 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno! We are 2 days into Scarlet Spear - the shores have been rocky, but this list aims to address how we plan on making some of those rocks less jagged:

We will update with Dev’s plans for these as we get information:

Score Scripts

Tutorials & Tips

Trade Wares

Meta Analysis:


Over the course of the past several months, there’s been a lot of repeated bad-to-mixed first impressions on new content releases.

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

That is not to say future Updates will be completely bug free (we’d never make a claim like this), but we hope to break out of the bad first impression cycle in a constructive way. Thank you for your patience!

I'm glad to see you're rewarding the players who stuck it out and tried slogging through the endless grind and bugs of this release with the Score Scripts and such. It feels like you're still staying quite silent on the actual grind to reward ratio though. A lot of people are still working normally, working from home, or still doing school, and don't want to have to spend like, 2 hours a day every day until the event ends in order to get everything they want. If this was supposed to be how we re-maxed our arcanes, or collected them anew, the payout/price balance needs to be addressed, or else it comes across as extremely disrespectful of our time. This is supposed to be a fun, rewarding game, even if it's supposed to be difficult to do so. It should be difficult, not impossibly tediously lengthy and grindy.

I'm glad you're making more of an effort to actually put the game into the game, rather than expecting us all to get all of our information from your forum posts or devstreams or the wiki. Please continue to do so, and to look back on existing systems and give them the same treatment. I understand that a certain youtuber has found that like, 80% of your current in-game tutorials are completely inaccurate at this point. You need to aggressively finish hammering out what the new, base, status quo is for things like damage, mobility, and melee, and then get your New Player Experience and updated tutorials in order. This not being will scare off new players from picking it up in the first place, or make them drop it because right as they get the hang of something or how something works, it's changing on them, or it turns out the information they got in the first place was actually inaccurate.

If you're avoiding putting the rare and expensive and meta arcanes in until it's balanced, do you really have an excuse to not listen to 80% or more of the playerbase saying that this isn't worth our time with the current reward-scales, for buying these cheaper/common arcanes?

I really appreciate DE acknowledging this "Release Meta". What myself and others will appreciate more is any degree of transparency on how this is going to be addressed. Mandatory minimum stress-testing periods upon theoretical final releases. Public Test Servers that people can volunteer for, in order to provide early feedback, for major releases. Could come with some minor exclusive variants of event-related sigils or emblems or glyphs (Minor, like the differences between the phased and gilded clan sigils you released with SS here), or a 24 hour credit/resource/chance booster upon the update that you playtested for being released. We really would rather have things overbaked and delayed for Public Test Servers to be made live during a Tennocon or a Gameshow so that we can genuinely be excited for the content and know that for our real accounts, it's going to be a genuinely awesome, polished experience. I honestly have been coming to dread surprise release announcements like Rising Tide, Fortuna, and Plains, because they turned out to be ridiculously buggy messes that require polishing and polishing and additional content additions for like, a year after, in order for them to be a full, polished experience. I don't know what your company's profits and payroll and organization structure looks like, but a lot of people think that maybe DE could use some organization restructuring if necessary, and/or additional staffing, so that you can collectively present a more consistent, polished experience in line with your goals and vision, rather than these crunched, rushed releases where it feels like some entire department's works are phenomenal, but completely separate and divorced from established work, or the other new content. Maybe not even a reorganization, but just a process put in place to reduce the "Content Islands" effect. Up to you all, obviously, but that's my feedback, which I've heard echoed or repeated elsewhere on these forums, on Reddit, on staffing company reviews of your workplace, and in Discord servers.

We just want to see our favorite space ninja game's updates be better each time, rather than uhhh... worse. We love you guys. Stay safe and healthy, and keep making an awesome game!

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How about you start playtesting your updates and fix the most glaring issues that become apparent after 10 minutes for everyone?

Like how could you not notice that scarlet spear railajck had no matchmaking lol.

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Posted (edited)

How about you stop developing around rationed content and start coming up with good ideas from the get go that have actually worked in the past instead of the new shiny idea that will pull more players... Over the last few updates DE has shown that they prefer innovation over capitalizing on what has worked in the past to the detriment of your player base.. Having significant portions of your current player base abandon the game en masse after an update should tell you what your doing wrong... Eventually you wont have to bother with innovation and saying sorry cause there will be no one left screaming into the void that is the forums.

Edited by Ghost23d
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18 minutes ago, Lord-Childeric said:

One thing I'd like to say, if we put bonus reward bug aside, the grind is not as heavy as some players tend to say. Bug free, one smooth 2hours of SS grants between 15k an 20k (10k bonus points considered in). So if you don't want to get any arcades, but only new stuff, a player needs to perform that score 3 to 4 times... and we have 1 month to do it. Sorry for anyone who reads this and is complaining about the 'grind' but it's complete nonsense...

While I agree with you that the "grind" has potential to be a lot less than it seems, there are a few large issues with that. A big one is bolded above. Bug free and smooth just isn't happening right now. I have personally run with a good group to 5k+ points on 4 different occasions where we had issues. One where the kill codes bugged out and we couldn't get past 23/100 Murexes so no one got bonuses. Two where some of us got 2k bonus pts (granted hot-fixed now) and most recently where we got emblems but no bonus points at all.

Then there is the Eidolon "meta" issue all over again. Space, if it works, can be afk'd by Limbo. Ground requires a solid comp to complete 17 waves in a timely manner. Most pugs either dip after 3 or struggle to get past 10. I've watched streamers go in non-meta group and struggle to clear 17 waves on the ground in over an hour. Whereas a good pre-made comp and clear it 23-25 mins. Not unlike public Tridolons that take the whole night vs 5x3s. It's just going to cause issues when taking 100/100 into account and the time-gating.

I have hopes that .4 hot-fix and future hot-fixes will correct a lot of this. I personally like the idea of bonus payouts and could see how, if done correctly, the current structure could be useful. Unfortunately I don't think its going to work. Easiest fix is just to triple the rewards and remove the 100/100 requirement and bonus structure. Its essentially the same payout with regard to the bonus payout structure now, but gives rewards and the feeling of being rewarded up front versus having to wait for something that's partially out of your control (100/100). This way people aren't punished for swapping from space to ground or vice versa in order to hit 100/100. They can then add some sort of bonus or reward for getting all 100 Murexes to provide incentive to stay and finish vs just capping points (which I believe is the intent behind the 100/100 requirement).

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Posted (edited)

At this point, results are all that is going to matter. If the next big update is no different, I don't know if I can continue playing in good faith. We are already three botched and buggy updates for three in the last nine months.

Edited by Sitchrea
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34 minutes ago, An8rchy said:

Pretty sure you still have to adress the horrendous high cost of the shop items aswell

Definitely not forgotten about this. Thank you for everything else, but this is still a big issue.

Also 100% in support of a proper PTR and of new content spending some time there before hitting the live game. Lots of games have an open PTR where people who want to be part of play testing can gain access to it. A lot of them either have all game content available for PTR accounts or allow players to sync their accounts/characters/whatever to the PTR. This would be such a good thing and would definitely help out with new releases being much more smooth.

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A post from Reddit courtasy of /u/DBrody6 bsically sums up my thoughts on the 'bonus' mechanic'

Are we supposed to hit the 5000 point cap in a flotilla and then leave and rack up 5000 in another for the most efficient payday bonuses? Like it just seems really...flawed. Stupid and flawed. 2/3rds of your credit income is on the hopes and prayers that one, the game actually functions and delivers kill codes to space teams and two, enough people hit 100/100 or you get no bonus.

That percentage isn't a bonus! That's the MAIN reward! You're doing the equivalent of giving someone a $5000 salary with a $50000 """bonus""" if they do well. The goddamn bonus IS their salary, they just have to go through extra hoops cause it's in jeopardy!

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The current payouts are, beyond the bugs and technical issues, repeating the same basic problem you've been repeating for years: it takes way too long for a casual or even moderate player to accrue a reasonable amount of rewards. You put such a low value on player time that you end up either alienating players that see the insurmountable wall in front of them and bounce off of it, or you have players grind the event like a dayjob to acquire everything and then end up burnt out and resentful afterwards.

I know you guys are trickling out rewards to chase that "engagement" buzz, but if the time spent engaging with your system is drawn out and tedious it will make a lot of people reconsider engaging with it again.

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48 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


Some Known Issues: 

 

  1. Players were earning Victory Payout for Flotillas that didn’t reach 100/100 Murex Driven Away.

 

this is plain bad design.

there is so many flotillas not everyone will get to 100.

i cant pick a flotilla i'll join if i join a pub it's the host that pick so if they pick a bad one i might not get it. it basically forcing me to play the same one until it get to 100 or even solo since if i join a pub again it will be another relay 99% of  the time. my connection is so bad i have to solo if im host

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

Not good enough, in my opinion. Sit down in a coordinate chat with the team and develop a plan of action. Find out why things are releasing the way they are, give everyone a chance to voice their issues, and start hotfixing your development process.

 

Telling us you'll do better then doing the same thing over and over again is meaningless, and you've lost any trust I had in you. Prove to us that you are going to do better instead of telling us you might.

Edited by Ophmalpulos
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54 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Meta Analysis:


Over the course of the past several months, there’s been a lot of repeated bad-to-mixed first impressions on new content releases.

We are doing our best with Hotfixes but, for a Warframe player, the experience you’d want to have with new content is not the one you’ve been getting the first 4-5 days after release (sometimes longer in the case of Liches / etc).We apologize for this frustration. This is a topic we plan on addressing by adapting our approach for the remainder of the year’s Updates. With the release of Warframe: Revised earlier this month, we’re hoping to continue in this direction with revising old, but also adding new in a better way!

That is not to say future Updates will be completely bug free (we’d never make a claim like this), but we hope to break out of the bad first impression cycle in a constructive way. Thank you for your patience!

Please see our past post here to catch up on what Hotfixes have covered, and check back here for updates:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1178297-scarlet-spear-launch-hour-feedback-top-items/?tab=comments#comment-11453263

 

Cheers, Tenno!

Rebb I'm sorry you have to go through this every single time for the past year or so and I understand that this is none of your fault, you do your job perfectly and you're one of the main reasons I still support this game. Having said that, words and promises don't mean anything at this point because you've broken them many times this past year. We want to see actions and I hope you and the team can finally deliver them, it's really hard seeing the game in this state. 

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If you're concerned with the "Feel Bad" nature of scoring, why aren't basic mission credit rewards being increased?

 

The bulk of rewards being locked behind payout that is dependent on the flotilla reaching goal seems designed specifically to bone people who don't have as much time to play and solo players.

 

This system isn't rewarding and encouraging long group play sessions, it's actively discouraging people who don't no life this game.

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1 minute ago, MagganonFatalis said:

it's actively discouraging people who don't no life this game.

The post from yesterday made it explicit they balanced around meta coordinated squads in a 'perfect scenerio' environment (IE no lag, no bugs, no problems) when doing economy balancing.

Which to me is extraordinarily stupid as even with the 'shelter in place' orders people have kids at home now. People still have to work (now from home.) People have to get things done other than play this game. There are OTHER games out right now and coming up. 

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