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(XB1)WafflyLearner89

Could Warframe learn a thing or two from DOOM: eternal? (slight rant)

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Yo, im still waiting for my paired great swords to make it into warframe.450?cb=20171030071129I blush every time I think of them ❤️

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11 hours ago, 844448 said:

But what about the rest of the weapons? What about your pistol or other small arms? Can you boost their damage to catch up with the BFG?

Ok, so you didn't get my point, nice

EDIT: btw, the pistol has been removed from the game. You could actually play it before arguing about it, you don't seem to know a lot about DOOM Eternal

But let's take the weakest weapon, the combat shotgun. Like I said, one of its mods is the full-auto, which decimates any enemy in front of you at the cost of ammo

The second mod is the sticky bombs, the second most useful mod just behind the meat-hook on the super-shotgun

Each weapons has a twist or a mod that makes it extremely useful in battles. In warframe, 95% of the weapons shoot bullets & that's it, you also have weapons like the Stug, does DOOM Eternal have a Stug? No, because every weapon is useful in one way or another

11 hours ago, 844448 said:

You want weaknesses like in DOOM? Oh, I can arrange that, probably with an enemy that requires you to use parazon or some strategy but remembering your condition on your previous thread, I don't think you can keep your focus on that enemy when you can't keep your focus from not stabbing the larvling and I doubt you won't complain later

You clearly don't know how ADHD works, review my other posts about it since you remember them so well

I had no problem playing DOOM Eternal on Ultra-Violence if that answers your question

11 hours ago, 844448 said:

And what do you get from getting more weapon points after finishing the game once? And secret areas? Let's say secret areas that contain sabotage cache actually drop something ultra rare and exclusive, will you spend your time just to find them?

If caches in sabotage would drop something actually useful like Umbral formas, yes I would

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there are a lot negative feedback on steam. doom eternal isnt a good game at all. and most players wont replay it.

i speed more then 2k hours in warframe and i will never do it in this game. so this game is bad compared to earlier versions.

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13 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

there are a lot negative feedback on steam. doom eternal isnt a good game at all. and most players wont replay it.

i speed more then 2k hours in warframe and i will never do it in this game. so this game is bad compared to earlier versions.

91% positive reviews is bad? You know, Warframe is also at 91% for all reviews, (88% for recent), so what does that mean?

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23 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

And, unfortunately, there is one key thing that will always keep Warframe like this: The grind. Challenge means that there is a decent chance of failure. But failure doesn't fit with a super grindy game, because failure means missing out on loot chances, which is super frustrating. This is why almost everyone takes the most powerful loadout into every mission no matter what. Its just more efficient that way. And with a grind like this, doing it efficiently is the only thing that matters.

Actually I believe there is a way to do this: Adding difficulty modes. We could make current level of difficulty in warframe (with some changes such as more interesting platforming levels and enemy variety) and make that easy mode. Then we have difficulty increase with medium (enemy scales to match your level), hard (enemy scale is fairly higher than your level) and extreme (additional conditions that hinder you or enemies with much higher scaling) mode. The best part? The higher the difficulty, the higher the rare drop chances and more high level rewards you get. This could also allow for easy planets like earth or Venus to have higher difficulty with amazing rewards for vets to return to. As a result, skill is rewarded with better loot and less grind!

22 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

Hitscan does have its place, though. Like when you have a specific counter to it, like the pipe bombs in Duke Nukem 3D. The hitscan enemies in that are devastating in open combat, because its nearly impossible to avoid getting hit by them. But, the pipe bombs let you attack them indirectly, so if you do it right, they can't shoot back. Perfect counterplay.

That would be great if we had something like that in warframe!

16 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I largely agree with this post: I think hitscan weaponry, like regenerating health, can have its place, as you mentioned, it's just that Warframe is really not good at accommodating it: in a standard shooter, it's fine for the player's weapons to be hitscan, and even for the enemy's, provided that there is a good enough system of health recovery and cover, because projectiles won't make a difference in most mid- to close-range combat with slow overall movement. Warframe, on the other hand, has combat at all ranges, doesn't give the player any stable innate ways of recovering health, and is completely out of balance: this means hitscan weaponry on players has to be balanced out in open worlds by damage falloff, a mechanic that kills diverse gameplay in the name of attempted balance, whereas hitscan weaponry on enemies is directly responsible for screwing over frames that don't have major survivability tools, even though our main means of survivability is supposed to be movement.

Really, I think it would be to the game's significant benefit if a) all hitscan weapons were given fast-moving projectiles, b) our weapons had perfect accuracy by default,  c) our essential multishot mods were removed and compensated for, d) damage falloff were removed, and e) enemies became significantly less accurate than now while we parkour. We'd depend less on steroids to survive, and our weapons would feel a lot cleaner to use, with less technical load overall with the reduced multishot (which itself achieves nothing really in gameplay terms). At the very least, enemy weapons should not be hitscan, not unless enemies are made to be completely inaccurate while we're moving at full speed.

I am all for turning hit-scan weapons into really fast projectile weapons. I also agree that DE really needs to re balance how a player gets health back with more sustainability. If that would mean removing some mods to balance us out I would be all for it. Maybe have a specific enemy type that has a hit-scan weapon that shows up at higher levels in small groups or something. You have some good ideas.

14 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

As you said, hitscan weapons do have their place. But using them everywhere is just lazy, and offers no variety. Hitscan guns always tend to feel very similar to one another. This is why I think that the Unreal series has the best arsenal of weapons in any game. It has a mix of both hitscan and projectile weapons, and they each have a very well defined set of strengths and weaknesses that gives each one a specific role. But that becomes much harder to do when your game has a thousand weapons, like Warframe.  But I would much rather have an arsenal of seven amazing weapons, than a thousand bland ones.

I have also always respected Borderlands for using fast projectiles on most of its guns, instead of just hopping on the hitscan train like everyone else at the time. Its a small difference, since they are so fast, but it still matters. The little details like that are what make certain games truly great.

There also really needs to be more progression with the enemy types in Warframe. At low levels, you should only fight simple enemies with easy to deal with attacks, and move on to much tougher and more dangerous types at higher levels. The same way it works in Doom, or Dark Souls, or any decently challenging game. Good challenge progression doesn't come from just giving the same enemies higher stats, it mostly comes from making the player deal with entirely new and unknown threats. And If DE wants to give enemies hitscan weapons, they should save them for the toughest ones, not give them to the basic grunts. Because nearly unavoidable damage like that is a serous threat.

Also, movement is even more important when dealing with projectile weapons, so this would make all the fancy parkour maneuvers more important. The entire reason the original Doomguy is so hard to kill is that he can outrun almost every projectile attack in the game. But he still can't outrun the shotgun guy or chaingun guy's attacks, just like how the Tenno can't parkour away from the spray of a thousand Grakatas.

This 100%. Enemy variety that have different attacks, design and requirements for how to take them down is exactly what this game needs. 99% of hitscans should be changed to high speed projectile weapons instead (the 1% should be an enemy type that come in small numbers at high level missions). They also should continue to update their level designs to have some parkour platforming and platform puzzles. In Doom Eternal, there is a certain section of a level where you need to leap off one pillar to another by wall jumping and I'm not talking about pillars right next to each other, the pillars are pretty far apart. The level design in games like Jedi Fallen Order (which utilizes force powers and wall running to get through a level) is one of my favorites. Movement should also be utilized for survivability like in other combat games. Warframe is the one game in which I can't rely on jumping around or dodging to stay alive which I really hate (also, am I the only one that finds the current dodge button clunky and useless? Why can't the dodge mechanic be more like dodging in spider-man ps4 or any other fast paced combat game!?) 

13 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

I agree map design could use some more work. Warframe has a lot of 3 dimensions mobility but the map design is no better than a generic third person shooter. Use of parkour is unnecessary in most cases. Jupiter tileset rework was a step in right direction IMO but clearly DE can put more effort.

It's true that warframe enemies are largely uninteresting and is generally using the same pattern which is keep shooting until it's dead. Nox and Elite Shield Lancer were a nice try to introduce challenge but they can try to mix in hacking or Mercy too. Kuva Guardians are rather good for involving operators but it still feels pretty clunky to keep switching in/out. Could use more work. They can consider making minibosses which you will encounter once or twice in a mission which is difficult to take down but gives better rewards, as an optional challenge.

Yeah, They need to add more platforming that requires specific types of parkour along with some platforming and maybe puzzles. Current enemies should be scrapped and redone to have basic grunts and different enemy types outside of color changes. I barley notice when new enemies appear nor am I able to spot the difference since they die so fast.

10 hours ago, Radiofloyd said:

The issue is that the only way to implement those things would be major nerfs. If you ever bother to scan all the sentients (or try to solo them taking your time), you'll see that they're all mechanically distinct and interesting fights in a nutshell. The issue is that we have novas and limbos to cc them to oblivion, invalidating them, every dps frame, being able to completely ignore any interesting mechanic the sentients may have and stealth frames that will never even be hit. All these things would have to be nerfed to be able to insert the level of gameplay DOOM offers into warframe. That's why, although a beautiful pipedream, I find this incredibly unlikely.

I have some ideas as to how to control the cc/nuking powers that involve reworking forma to act as a better way of making your frame stronger.

it's just a rough draft but the general idea is to move frame builds away from always trying to build for the usual strength, duration, range, armor, health and energy and focus on using augments while DE makes more unique augments.

"Warframe progression rework (Forma 2.0)

-Mods affecting health, shield, armor, energy, strength, duration, range and efficiency are removed. Also, mod capacity is removed as are the need for polarized mod slots.

-Rather than add/change polarity, when forma is installed it will boost the warframe’s health, shields, armor, energy, strength, duration and range. After the forma is installed, the frame will prestige and be at rank 1 level 0. Additionally, doing this will not reset the frames stats back down to 0 like forma used to do. Rather, it will slightly boost the stats as the frame continues to level up and rank up. After installing 5 forma, the frame’s stats will be the equivalent of having a max rank vitality, redirection, steel fiber, prime flow and 200% strength, duration and range (basically doubling the warframe’s base ability stats)"

-the idea is to keep the stats of frames consistent, open up some slots by removing the need for the usual mods, restrict the power of crowd control and nuke abilities so they are not always the only answer to combat scenarios and streamlines the progress of upgrading your frame. It would remove the ability to effect efficiency but that is because efficiency allows you to spam your abilities more often rather than use it sparingly. By removing it, it forces the player to plan out when they want to use and prevents them from spamming it and wiping out waves of enemies without any effort. 

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9 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

But let's take the weakest weapon, the combat shotgun. Like I said, one of its mods is the full-auto, which decimates any enemy in front of you at the cost of ammo

The second mod is the sticky bombs, the second most useful mod just behind the meat-hook on the super-shotgun

Each weapons has a twist or a mod that makes it extremely useful in battles. In warframe, 95% of the weapons shoot bullets & that's it, you also have weapons like the Stug, does DOOM Eternal have a Stug? No, because every weapon is useful in one way or another

This is exactly what I feel the weapons in warframe should be like. Having unique mods for that specific weapon rather than always installing the same mandatory and generic mods just to use it in higher levels is way better and adds some nice twists in what you use. If our weapons were like the ones in Doom Eternal, there would be alot more variety and fun to be had.

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24 minutes ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Actually I believe there is a way to do this: Adding difficulty modes. We could make current level of difficulty in warframe (with some changes such as more interesting platforming levels and enemy variety) and make that easy mode. Then we have difficulty increase with medium (enemy scales to match your level), hard (enemy scale is fairly higher than your level) and extreme (additional conditions that hinder you or enemies with much higher scaling) mode. The best part? The higher the difficulty, the higher the rare drop chances and more high level rewards you get. This could also allow for easy planets like earth or Venus to have higher difficulty with amazing rewards for vets to return to. As a result, skill is rewarded with better loot and less grind!

That would be great if we had something like that in warframe!

I am all for turning hit-scan weapons into really fast projectile weapons. I also agree that DE really needs to re balance how a player gets health back with more sustainability. If that would mean removing some mods to balance us out I would be all for it. Maybe have a specific enemy type that has a hit-scan weapon that shows up at higher levels in small groups or something. You have some good ideas.

This 100%. Enemy variety that have different attacks, design and requirements for how to take them down is exactly what this game needs. 99% of hitscans should be changed to high speed projectile weapons instead (the 1% should be an enemy type that come in small numbers at high level missions). They also should continue to update their level designs to have some parkour platforming and platform puzzles. In Doom Eternal, there is a certain section of a level where you need to leap off one pillar to another by wall jumping and I'm not talking about pillars right next to each other, the pillars are pretty far apart. The level design in games like Jedi Fallen Order (which utilizes force powers and wall running to get through a level) is one of my favorites. Movement should also be utilized for survivability like in other combat games. Warframe is the one game in which I can't rely on jumping around or dodging to stay alive which I really hate (also, am I the only one that finds the current dodge button clunky and useless? Why can't the dodge mechanic be more like dodging in spider-man ps4 or any other fast paced combat game!?) 

Yeah, They need to add more platforming that requires specific types of parkour along with some platforming and maybe puzzles. Current enemies should be scrapped and redone to have basic grunts and different enemy types outside of color changes. I barley notice when new enemies appear nor am I able to spot the difference since they die so fast.

I have some ideas as to how to control the cc/nuking powers that involve reworking forma to act as a better way of making your frame stronger.

it's just a rough draft but the general idea is to move frame builds away from always trying to build for the usual strength, duration, range, armor, health and energy and focus on using augments while DE makes more unique augments.

"Warframe progression rework (Forma 2.0)

-Mods affecting health, shield, armor, energy, strength, duration, range and efficiency are removed. Also, mod capacity is removed as are the need for polarized mod slots.

-Rather than add/change polarity, when forma is installed it will boost the warframe’s health, shields, armor, energy, strength, duration and range. After the forma is installed, the frame will prestige and be at rank 1 level 0. Additionally, doing this will not reset the frames stats back down to 0 like forma used to do. Rather, it will slightly boost the stats as the frame continues to level up and rank up. After installing 5 forma, the frame’s stats will be the equivalent of having a max rank vitality, redirection, steel fiber, prime flow and 200% strength, duration and range (basically doubling the warframe’s base ability stats)"

-the idea is to keep the stats of frames consistent, open up some slots by removing the need for the usual mods, restrict the power of crowd control and nuke abilities so they are not always the only answer to combat scenarios and streamlines the progress of upgrading your frame. It would remove the ability to effect efficiency but that is because efficiency allows you to spam your abilities more often rather than use it sparingly. By removing it, it forces the player to plan out when they want to use and prevents them from spamming it and wiping out waves of enemies without any effort. 

Your ideas are really, really good, but it's honestly very unlikely they will happen. I would play the S#&$ out of that, though. One addition to your forma aspect, though, they would have to drop in a guaranteed way in the game (maybe only on higher levels only) so you don't have to farm to make your frame viable at all. 

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39 minutes ago, Radiofloyd said:

Your ideas are really, really good, but it's honestly very unlikely they will happen. I would play the S#&$ out of that, though. One addition to your forma aspect, though, they would have to drop in a guaranteed way in the game (maybe only on higher levels only) so you don't have to farm to make your frame viable at all. 

I am glad you like my ideas! However, the reason for leaving forma as something to farm for is due to the fact that warframe is still a free to play game and I am removing a few items used for upgrading a warframe. Otherwise, I would be all for removing the need to farm it.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

This is exactly what I feel the weapons in warframe should be like. Having unique mods for that specific weapon rather than always installing the same mandatory and generic mods just to use it in higher levels is way better and adds some nice twists in what you use. If our weapons were like the ones in Doom Eternal, there would be alot more variety and fun to be had.

Prime weapons do have little abilities, like the Ballistica, it creates a ghost on charged kill-shot for seven seconds, sounds cool on paper, but it's utterly useless

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31 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Prime weapons do have little abilities, like the Ballistica, it creates a ghost on charged kill-shot for seven seconds, sounds cool on paper, but it's utterly useless

There's a lot of them that have actually useful peculiarities. Look at the glaive prime forced slash on throw, for example...

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Why are you comparing a linear 10 hour FPS with a 1000+ hours  looter-shooter? This comparison makes zero sense. Next thing people are gonna compare Warframe to Animal Crossing. 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Actually I believe there is a way to do this: Adding difficulty modes. We could make current level of difficulty in warframe (with some changes such as more interesting platforming levels and enemy variety) and make that easy mode. Then we have difficulty increase with medium (enemy scales to match your level), hard (enemy scale is fairly higher than your level) and extreme (additional conditions that hinder you or enemies with much higher scaling) mode. The best part? The higher the difficulty, the higher the rare drop chances and more high level rewards you get. This could also allow for easy planets like earth or Venus to have higher difficulty with amazing rewards for vets to return to. As a result, skill is rewarded with better loot and less grind!

I know various versions of this have been suggested before. DE even said they were working on some form of it a long time ago. As long as the only advantage to picking harder modes is higher drop rates, not exclusive drops, then this would be great. One of the most boring things in this game is when you have to go to low level missions, like farming Lith relics. This would allow you to do that, but set the enemy levels to match your gear. Or, if you were having trouble with high level missions, you could set them a bit lower to get by.

The only problem I can see is matchmaking. How would you set the difficulty for the squad? Everyone has to agree on it? Or would it be possible to set it differently for each player? Borderlands 3 does something like the second option, and it works quite well.

Either way, having difficulty selections always makes games more inclusive, because then you can play how you want, instead of being forced to play how someone else says you should.

4 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

That would be great if we had something like that in warframe!

There kind of already is, with how many ways there are to attack enemies through walls. The problem is the random spawns.

In Duke Nukem, the level designers could put enemies is specific places to make specific challenges. They could intentionally put a hitscanner right around a corner, so that if you walk in you are pretty much guaranteed to get hit, but they are also placed just right so you can kill them with a pipe bomb first.

Warframe's random enemy spawns don't allow for anything like that. Any enemy can spawn anywhere, and with any other enemies. So DE can't put together interesting challenges with specific groups of enemies in specific places. That's why half the time you get snipers spawning right next to you, and melee units spawning across the room. But, there is no way to change that without completely redesigning the entire game.

4 hours ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

This 100%. Enemy variety that have different attacks, design and requirements for how to take them down is exactly what this game needs. 99% of hitscans should be changed to high speed projectile weapons instead (the 1% should be an enemy type that come in small numbers at high level missions). They also should continue to update their level designs to have some parkour platforming and platform puzzles. In Doom Eternal, there is a certain section of a level where you need to leap off one pillar to another by wall jumping and I'm not talking about pillars right next to each other, the pillars are pretty far apart. The level design in games like Jedi Fallen Order (which utilizes force powers and wall running to get through a level) is one of my favorites. Movement should also be utilized for survivability like in other combat games. Warframe is the one game in which I can't rely on jumping around or dodging to stay alive which I really hate (also, am I the only one that finds the current dodge button clunky and useless? Why can't the dodge mechanic be more like dodging in spider-man ps4 or any other fast paced combat game!?) 

Ballistas are a perfect example of how hitscan can work. They have an obvious warning that they are about to shoot you, so you have a chance to react, or you get hit. But having 90% of the enemies just constantly spraying unavoidable damage the way most other Griner units do isn't good. Making their weapons more like what the Corpus use would be way better. Though even then, the constant spraying is still a problem.

And you're right, the main reason why most of the parkour 2.0 maneuvers feel so useless is because most of the tilesets were designed before they existed. The oldest tilesets, the Corpus ship and Grineer galleon, were actually designed before parkour 1.0 even existed. Its basically like playing the original Doom on a modern sourceport with jumping. The original game wasn't designed with that ability, so having it just doesn't fit, and can seriously ruin the intended flow of the maps.

The dodge roll is pretty much the same. Its one of the only leftovers from parkour 1.0, and was created when the entire game was much slower. So once again, it doesn't fit with the newer changes. This is where a lot of the problems with this game come from. DE updates one thing, but not another, and now they don't fit together anymore.

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I'd point out an odd twist here: It's mostly PLAYER weapons that have travel time and offer a chance to get out of the way (this was even specifically retrofitted onto a number of archwing guns with Empyrean, too).

Instead of the magical space ninjas having faster or outright hitscan versions, they get ... the non-homing limited-ammo version of Ogris.

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3 hours ago, Aryustailm said:

I'd point out an odd twist here: It's mostly PLAYER weapons that have travel time and offer a chance to get out of the way (this was even specifically retrofitted onto a number of archwing guns with Empyrean, too).

Instead of the magical space ninjas having faster or outright hitscan versions, they get ... the non-homing limited-ammo version of Ogris.

We can also deal insane damage. I do think enemies should rarely have hitscan and homing, but it's not like it doesn't make sense that tenno weapons (which you can mod into total destruction) should be harder to handle than the enemies. In an ideal world, though, for us tenno, it wouldn't be hard nor easy to aim, while enemies would have perfect aim that is different levels dodgeable depending on the damage the projectile deals.

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On 2020-03-27 at 9:27 AM, supernils said:

That's not completely true, in the Saturn (Jupiter?) tile set they revamped a couple of months ago they built in parts where you have to cross large gaps, wall run / bullet jump etc

I hope the Corpus tile set which they are currently revamping will have similar features but I really look forward to it because the Saturn revamp was an awesome job.

Consistency of method changes for the worst. Every tile added should support archwing, zephyr, hoverboards, parkour and get rid of Arbitrary reset zones. Funny I can fall through the map forever and can't use unstuck to reset but drop in a 2 foot recess and get reset on the spot...lame?

And the last update introduced a slew of progression bugs( for some damn reason it just will not advance to the next round for a myriad of reasons) fix this crap. I lose so much time on bogus game time outs/ forced abortions. GUARANTEED AT LEAST ONCE AN HOUR!!! WHAT IS THE POINT OF PLAYING?

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Maybe there needs to be a thread of  bad A.I. in action and progression stopping gameplay added to the forums. See how quick the build up is?

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On 2020-03-28 at 2:16 PM, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Ok, so you didn't get my point, nice

EDIT: btw, the pistol has been removed from the game. You could actually play it before arguing about it, you don't seem to know a lot about DOOM Eternal

But let's take the weakest weapon, the combat shotgun. Like I said, one of its mods is the full-auto, which decimates any enemy in front of you at the cost of ammo

The second mod is the sticky bombs, the second most useful mod just behind the meat-hook on the super-shotgun

Each weapons has a twist or a mod that makes it extremely useful in battles. In warframe, 95% of the weapons shoot bullets & that's it, you also have weapons like the Stug, does DOOM Eternal have a Stug? No, because every weapon is useful in one way or another

And for that weakest weapon, how well the upgrades serve the combat shotgun as the weakest weapon? Can it catch up with super shotgun or other weapons with higher damage? One reason why I like warframe is that my braton doesn't fall off or becomes obsolete once I get better weapon

95% of the weapons shoot bullets and that's it? They have different style and feeling and I don't mind it as if all weapons should have something unique to it

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I would say warframe did "learn" a thing or two from other games. 

Lich system = Shadow of mordor. (That's a mixed bag there.)

Railjack = a few space sim games come to mind. 

Relics = Pseudo loot boxes.

If anything, warframe is an amalgam of ideas from games that could use the concept well, due to their focused nature. (I'm referring to single player titles)

Come to think of it, what is/was the current concept of this game anyway?

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On 2020-03-29 at 6:23 AM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Actually I believe there is a way to do this: Adding difficulty modes. We could make current level of difficulty in warframe (with some changes such as more interesting platforming levels and enemy variety) and make that easy mode. Then we have difficulty increase with medium (enemy scales to match your level), hard (enemy scale is fairly higher than your level) and extreme (additional conditions that hinder you or enemies with much higher scaling) mode. The best part? The higher the difficulty, the higher the rare drop chances and more high level rewards you get. This could also allow for easy planets like earth or Venus to have higher difficulty with amazing rewards for vets to return to. As a result, skill is rewarded with better loot and less grind!

This is the thing, with your medium and hard, how do you scale enemy level compared to ours? With enemy scales to match or higher, how high is it when we wipe out level 100 despite being only level 30?

Then, what kind of "amazing rewards" are you talking about? Try defining it first because my immense power to wipe level 100 is my amazing reward for my effort and your extreme mode is already here long time ago called nightmare mission if you don't know about it

On 2020-03-29 at 6:23 AM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I am all for turning hit-scan weapons into really fast projectile weapons. I also agree that DE really needs to re balance how a player gets health back with more sustainability. If that would mean removing some mods to balance us out I would be all for it. Maybe have a specific enemy type that has a hit-scan weapon that shows up at higher levels in small groups or something. You have some good ideas.

You don't mind with removing some mods? Are you sure you won't complain losing your mods and say DE doesn't respect player's investment and such later? Because if I ever see you complain about it, I can remind you that you are the one who didn't mind about it

Also, turning hit-scan weapons into projectile weapons? Try playing archwing on low level and try for yourself the feeling of it first where DE already changed all hit-scan archguns to projectile based and tell me how you like it

On 2020-03-29 at 6:23 AM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Yeah, They need to add more platforming that requires specific types of parkour along with some platforming and maybe puzzles. Current enemies should be scrapped and redone to have basic grunts and different enemy types outside of color changes. I barley notice when new enemies appear nor am I able to spot the difference since they die so fast.

You want to be able to spot the difference? Then that means a massive nerf to our power to the ground to make us aren't any stronger than a grineer grunt to make you see the difference but is that what you want? From omnipotent tenno to a mainstream ground shooter with some movement and unique looking armor where a few bullet are enough to put you down to the ground? Even with different enemy types you won't see much of the difference if you wipe out enemies so fast

On 2020-03-29 at 6:23 AM, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I have some ideas as to how to control the cc/nuking powers that involve reworking forma to act as a better way of making your frame stronger.

it's just a rough draft but the general idea is to move frame builds away from always trying to build for the usual strength, duration, range, armor, health and energy and focus on using augments while DE makes more unique augments.

"Warframe progression rework (Forma 2.0)

-Mods affecting health, shield, armor, energy, strength, duration, range and efficiency are removed. Also, mod capacity is removed as are the need for polarized mod slots.

-Rather than add/change polarity, when forma is installed it will boost the warframe’s health, shields, armor, energy, strength, duration and range. After the forma is installed, the frame will prestige and be at rank 1 level 0. Additionally, doing this will not reset the frames stats back down to 0 like forma used to do. Rather, it will slightly boost the stats as the frame continues to level up and rank up. After installing 5 forma, the frame’s stats will be the equivalent of having a max rank vitality, redirection, steel fiber, prime flow and 200% strength, duration and range (basically doubling the warframe’s base ability stats)"

-the idea is to keep the stats of frames consistent, open up some slots by removing the need for the usual mods, restrict the power of crowd control and nuke abilities so they are not always the only answer to combat scenarios and streamlines the progress of upgrading your frame. It would remove the ability to effect efficiency but that is because efficiency allows you to spam your abilities more often rather than use it sparingly. By removing it, it forces the player to plan out when they want to use and prevents them from spamming it and wiping out waves of enemies without any effort. 

You see the kuva weapon complain about having to put 5 forma to reach level 40? You want that again on our warframes? Also, removing the ability to affect efficiency doesn't matter when you have squad energy restore, energizing dash and trinity with energy vampire and that would make it like before where trinity becomes a mandatory frame to bring

Lastly, why do you want to change warframe to another mainstream games where you are not allowed to wipe out waves of enemies without any effort? Why should warframe be the same with others? What makes warframe unique and different to other games then?

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On 2020-03-28 at 7:47 AM, Teridax68 said:

a) all hitscan weapons were given fast-moving projectiles

If you don't know, Kohm was supposed to be a projectile shotgun that shoots more projectiles as long as you press the trigger and you know what happens? The frame rate dipped hard and they had to change it to hitscan

You want projectile for all weapons? Sure but that means no more potato PC allowed in the minimum requirement and are you willing to take the risk of having a screen full of colorful projectiles that has big chance to cause epilepsy? Also, are you willing to take the risk where a mirage can come in, use hall of mirrors and start firing the projectiles, bringing your frame rate to a halt or worse, completely brick your platform, killing it?

But if you insist, why don't we add projectile trajectory where no bullet flies in straight line? More skill based shooting

On 2020-03-28 at 7:47 AM, Teridax68 said:

b) our weapons had perfect accuracy by default

What's the point then? Other shooter games have deviation even when aiming down sight and worse deviation on hip fire coupled with recoil so why should we have perfect accuracy by default? That will only make people spray

On 2020-03-28 at 7:47 AM, Teridax68 said:

d) damage falloff were removed

What's the reason damage falloff removed? Without damage falloff we would just take whatever weapon and shoot from miles away so where's the engagement from that?

On 2020-03-28 at 7:47 AM, Teridax68 said:

e) enemies became significantly less accurate than now while we parkour.

They are already very inaccurate when we parkour swiftly

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Meh no thanks. If I want to play DOOM I go and play DOOM. I'm here playing Warframe because it's Warframe and not a free DOOM-like game.

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What lessons could be learned from Doom Eternal? Beside that the comparisons between both games start and end at that there are guns, there actually lessons to be learned:

Do not make your game super restrictive, cuz freedom in game play is why I play WF. No I do not want to throw a grenade at mob A on point B. I want to use my melee weapon and wipe everything in my path.

Do not make your ammo restrictive. If the only reason to switch from weapon A to weapon B to weapon C is cuz none of the weapons have a fraction of the ammo required to kill mobs, something went wrong in design.

No scripted melee. Glory kills are like mortal combat finishers, there purpose is to be used only a few times for the cool factor. Doom Eternal ham fisting them into the game play, did not work well at all. Reminds me of the Parazon somewhat. At least Parazon is not a factor in game play.

Do not make your most difficult content in the early mid of the game, cuz mobs got hard yet most useful weapons/tools were not available till later. To be fair, most single player games fall into that trap. The difficulty cannot keep up with the player once all tools are unlocked.

Do not make bosses or mobs that are attack-able only in full moonlight at exactly 12:00AM on the top of mount Everist. It is never a good design. To be fair DE does fall into this design trap. But I would not say it is prevalent. It is in Doom Eternal.

I never though I would say this, but boss fights in WF are so much better than Doom Eternal. And most WF boss fights suck.

Organic platforming works so much better than half ass*d platforming. 

Is the game play in Doom Eternal far more intense than WF (even though the intensity is manufactured through lack of ammo and having to run around like a moron while gimmicks are on CD)? Sure. However, is WF build for or around intensity? WF is a power drift, Doom Eternal and even Doom 2016, are not. They just create the illusion of it. A WF would kill every single demon in the Doom Eternal, while the Doom slayer is searching for the yellow key in the first stage. 

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3 hours ago, 844448 said:

And for that weakest weapon, how well the upgrades serve the combat shotgun as the weakest weapon? Can it catch up with super shotgun or other weapons with higher damage? One reason why I like warframe is that my braton doesn't fall off or becomes obsolete once I get better weapon

95% of the weapons shoot bullets and that's it? They have different style and feeling and I don't mind it as if all weapons should have something unique to it

When you complain about stabbing your kuva lich despite having 3 big, obvious indicator? Yeah I doubt you won't bring your ADHD for something you want in the first place as an excuse

Look. I usually very much keep my cool, but you can't be insulting someone for a condition they were born with. You're below any kind of conversation, if you refuse to realize that. ADHD does not mean you will be stupid, or forget to do things your brain ends up programmed to do. It means literally the complete contrary. You will always do the things you programmed your brain to do, sometimes without realizing it (losing concentration means you let your muscle memory do your job). I, for one, sometimes forget to change my parazon mod setup, or, when I'm particularly distracted, don't check what my larvling is going to spawn with and end up getting a lich I never asked for. Also what the hell are you talking about on the "3 big indicator"?!? The way I get a larvling is choose a mission, kill a larvling, check if larvling has what I want (assuming I'm focused on what I'm doing) and stab the larvling. If you reflex mercy kill (which can also happen to the average player), you will end up getting a thing you don't care about. It's simple as that, and it shows a fatal flaw in the mechanics DE implemented (accentuated by the lack of an ability to opt out of an accidental stab). Now please inform yourself before attacking an entire group for something they basically have no control over.

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

What lessons could be learned from Doom Eternal? Beside that the comparisons between both games start and end at that there are guns, there actually lessons to be learned:

Do not make your game super restrictive, cuz freedom in game play is why I play WF. No I do not want to throw a grenade at mob A on point B. I want to use my melee weapon and wipe everything in my path.

Do not make your ammo restrictive. If the only reason to switch from weapon A to weapon B to weapon C is cuz none of the weapons have a fraction of the ammo required to kill mobs, something went wrong in design.

No scripted melee. Glory kills are like mortal combat finishers, there purpose is to be used only a few times for the cool factor. Doom Eternal ham fisting them into the game play, did not work well at all. Reminds me of the Parazon somewhat. At least Parazon is not a factor in game play.

Do not make your most difficult content in the early mid of the game, cuz mobs got hard yet most useful weapons/tools were not available till later. To be fair, most single player games fall into that trap. The difficulty cannot keep up with the player once all tools are unlocked.

Do not make bosses or mobs that are attack-able only in full moonlight at exactly 12:00AM on the top of mount Everist. It is never a good design. To be fair DE does fall into this design trap. But I would not say it is prevalent. It is in Doom Eternal.

I never though I would say this, but boss fights in WF are so much better than Doom Eternal. And most WF boss fights suck.

Organic platforming works so much better than half ass*d platforming. 

Is the game play in Doom Eternal far more intense than WF (even though the intensity is manufactured through lack of ammo and having to run around like a moron while gimmicks are on CD)? Sure. However, is WF build for or around intensity? WF is a power drift, Doom Eternal and even Doom 2016, are not. They just create the illusion of it. A WF would kill every single demon in the Doom Eternal, while the Doom slayer is searching for the yellow key in the first stage. 

I disagree with your base idea. What doom eternal proves is that you can design actual interesting enemies to fight, even while giving the level of power WF gives the player (with a bit of a difference because warframe abilities). Being a power fantasy does not exclude, imo, a game from being required to be interesting in gameplay, as much as in preparation. Warframe excelled (new status made it less interesting) in the preparation aspect, but the most efficient way to play it trivializes entirely all challenge and gameplay. In the meantime, DOOM Eternal makes you feel like a killing machine, without sacrificing the challenge fighting enemies efficiently brings. 

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