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Awazx

Nerfs in Warframe is getting absurd

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DE, I'm going to give you the best possible feedback. I'm going to tell you how I feel as a player and as a client; what I feel and what I perceive of your product called Warframe and what I feel and think of your company at this time.This is the feedback section.

DE, you have either lost your mind or you urgently need a new management team. You are no longer the company I met 7 years ago. This is what I sincerely perceive and feel about you and your product. I do not know what is happening to you, but you are heading quickly and certainly to a precipice with no way out.

I am absolutely fed up with update after update delivering incomplete, poorly designed, no tutorials, insane grinding and buggy content. Enough DE.

You have become worse and your product reflects your status. Scarlet Spear is another sample from your long list of failures, which already joins Liches and Empyrean.

This is the opinion of a client on a product called Warframe.

-Awazx.

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I have spoken to many players and write in other Warframe Community and Twitch Threads.

A lot of players have this feeling at the moment, too much nerf, that it is just developing negatively, a game that we (warfarmers) all love, spending a lot of money on platinum and warframe.

This money is supposed to be a dear proof of a fantastic game. Unfortunately, it is developing in the wrong direction. Listen more to your super community.

Because if you give us your vision of the best space shooter, we will also spend money.

WE also work very hard for our humble wages. Less nerf, think of the solo players

On 2020-03-25 at 7:16 PM, Awazx said:

DE, I'm going to give you the best possible feedback. I'm going to tell you how I feel as a player and as a client; what I feel and what I perceive of your product called Warframe and what I feel and think of your company at this time.This is the feedback section.

DE, you have either lost your mind or you urgently need a new management team. You are no longer the company I met 7 years ago.

 
Many Warframe players think it is the management who is responsible for the financial part. Exchange would be the best. The Warframe vision must be in focus first. Then we feel understood, pay you and for the Warframe game.
 
Starting from me, I even spent money on Warframe again. In times of a global economic crisis and a pandemic, short-term work with 60 percent less salary. For us that is much less salary, it is hardly enough to live.
But we support Warframe.
Since we disagree with the content like the tough nerf.
We support because we believe that the developers are listening to us!
Give us powerful weapons, support the dream of power fantasy, support solo players.
And give the tough guys a hard content, hard and medium level for normal players or players (served and badly injured, disabled or handicapped.)

But without a reward that cannot be achieved otherwise. Maybe a sigel or a skin. Then we will see if there are really so many players who want hard content
 
Sorry that I have repeated myself in some parts, other players and me, this Warframe game situation is stressful
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1 hour ago, Awazx said:

I am absolutely fed up with update after update delivering incomplete, poorly designed, no tutorials, insane grinding and buggy content. Enough DE.

That's about where I am right now. Kind of the same way I felt around Kuva Liches. DE's Dev Streams and recent developments seemed to suggest that they've learned their lesson and were dedicated to do better this time, but Scarlet Spear shows no indication that any lessons have been learned or that anything has changed. Once again we have a system which feels less like the delivery of a promised feature and more like a Kickstarter project trying to tick a box to avoid paying fines for false advertising. Not just that, but all that talk of "reducing the grind" seems to have meant nothing. Scarlet Spear is easily the grindiest event I've ever witnessed and makes Kuva Liches feel generous by comparison. At least with Liches, I'm not locked exclusively into Everest forevermore.

Then again, maybe the even isn't grindy at all. Maybe we're just playing it wrong and we're supposed to be getting tons of bonuses. Maybe... If anyone had bothered to explain how the event works, hint at it or even introduce the concept that there may be hidden mechanics to consider. If DE had bothered with any sort of meaningful documentation for a #*!%ing change. Instead here we are, arguing whether rewards are retained between instances, whether you get rewarded if you leave the instance, what these rewards are based on and whether they work at all, or if we're seeing bugs instead. What the hell is going on at DE? How can a company with this much experience and this kind of a pedigree still behave like a failed Kickstarter?

And it's not like I can do what I did with Fortuna or Railjack or Liches and just abandon the system for a month until the bugs are sorted out and people have had a chance to document it. It's a limited-time even that's going away in 20-some days. I don't have the luxury of giving DE time to fix their game this time around.

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3 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

That's about where I am right now. Kind of the same way I felt around Kuva Liches. DE's Dev Streams and recent developments seemed to suggest that they've learned their lesson and were dedicated to do better this time, but Scarlet Spear shows no indication that any lessons have been learned or that anything has changed. Once again we have a system which feels less like the delivery of a promised feature and more like a Kickstarter project trying to tick a box to avoid paying fines for false advertising. Not just that, but all that talk of "reducing the grind" seems to have meant nothing. Scarlet Spear is easily the grindiest event I've ever witnessed and makes Kuva Liches feel generous by comparison. At least with Liches, I'm not locked exclusively into Everest forevermore.

Then again, maybe the even isn't grindy at all. Maybe we're just playing it wrong and we're supposed to be getting tons of bonuses. Maybe... If anyone had bothered to explain how the event works, hint at it or even introduce the concept that there may be hidden mechanics to consider. If DE had bothered with any sort of meaningful documentation for a #*!%ing change. Instead here we are, arguing whether rewards are retained between instances, whether you get rewarded if you leave the instance, what these rewards are based on and whether they work at all, or if we're seeing bugs instead. What the hell is going on at DE? How can a company with this much experience and this kind of a pedigree still behave like a failed Kickstarter?

And it's not like I can do what I did with Fortuna or Railjack or Liches and just abandon the system for a month until the bugs are sorted out and people have had a chance to document it. It's a limited-time even that's going away in 20-some days. I don't have the luxury of giving DE time to fix their game this time around.

Yep, this right here is why I'm extending my "break" from the game. I thought that after that wonderful update with the damage changes. DE was learning to take feedback. But at last, we all got fooled again. I don't know about you guys but it's 2020. Alot of great releases are coming around. If DE wants to keep this game around for a few more years at this point. they start listening and quick.

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13 hours ago, moostar95 said:

Yep, this right here is why I'm extending my "break" from the game. I thought that after that wonderful update with the damage changes. DE was learning to take feedback. But at last, we all got fooled again. I don't know about you guys but it's 2020. Alot of great releases are coming around. If DE wants to keep this game around for a few more years at this point. they start listening and quick.

I don't know if it's even a matter of "listening" at this point. I may just be projecting, but it genuinely feels like DE have given up on trying to create a fun, compelling game for players to enjoy. Rather, they've resolved to create a Skinner box comprised of loot grind and FOMO without much in the way of intrinsic entertainment value. Liches could have been fun, but they ended up being a hollow grind. Railjack could have been fun, but it ended up being a hollow grind. Operation: Scarlet Spear could have been fun, but it ended up being a hollow grind. Hell, I can go back to Fortuna and Cetus and say the same. Looking back on the couple of years I've spent with Warframe, I can really only cite the Jovian Concord and Warframe Revised as major updates that have genuinely improved my experience with the game, largely because both fundamentally altered parts of the game without gating the new gameplay behind A MASSIVE GRIND.

I remember years ago Jim Sterling foaming at the mouth about what a great company DE was for listening to their players and improving their business model. To this day I will occasionally hear praise for how Warframe is F2P done right. I'm increasingly wondering what people are even talking about. Warframe is one of the grindiest, least rewarding games I've ever played, and I used to play Korean grindfest MMOs like 9Dragons and Lineage 2. No, it doesn't have lootboxes, but it has absolutely every other scummy F2P monetisation mechanic on the market, and a few horrible ones unique to itself. I'm increasingly starting to lump Warframe in the same category as the likes of World of Tanks - a genuinely fun game ruined by progression and monetisation. Every single time I try to play it, it feels like the game's core design is afraid of letting me have too much fun for fear I might get bored and leave, so it's wasting my time trying to keep me logged in longer.

DE talked about reducing grind at the start of 2020. I think it's high time they deliver on that promise.

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hace 2 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

DE talked about reducing grind at the start of 2020. I think it's high time they deliver on that promise.

I agree with everything expressed in your post. Regarding this, for now they are heading in the opposite direction and there is no sign indicating their intention to change. I'm even seriously considering quitting the game, and that's something I never really thought about doing, even in the darkest stages of Warframe.

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hace 2 horas, (XB1)poodlebingo 65 dijo:

I agree with all the opinions expressed. Expect this thread to disappear soon, sorry I meant 'merged'.

I wouldn't be surprised. But as I say in my post, I have many other places to express exactly the same and DE cannot cover the sun with a finger. Who knows, maybe they'll even take the situation seriously.

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I think that it's beyond redemption. DE, take time out, learn from the past. Great game but make it better by pulling the plug and launching Warframe 2. I'd spend hard earned on that. Expecting them to shoot the cash cow, though, is a long shot! I'd rather shoot the beast than starve it to death.

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I get that people are frustrated, but calling DE a bunch of poopyheads that hate your fun and demanding that they tailor the game to you ("NO NERFS!!!!!!!11111!!!") isn't exactly constructive.  If you want them to listen to you, as many of you have expressed, then perhaps you might want to do more than just yell at them, which makes them less inclined to listen and just creates a downward spiral.

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Posted (edited)

Liches are good content, conceptual since the beginning and factual after all tweaks and changes at this point.

Empyrian however, is a cluster #*!%. All I did was grinding resouces, and then I was met by the usual no info no tutorial confusing everything.

To this day I have not gained access to Railjack, I did one mission and it FAILED cause I didnt know what the #*!% to do. I want to enjoy the new content, but I can't. I'm not willing to wade through Wiki pages and Youtube tutorials, or get carried by people who did exactly that.

edit: that said, Liches were just as unapparent in the beginning, took time to figure everything out

Edited by supernils

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DE is at their best when they're jumping off cliffs and learning to fly on the way down.

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

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22 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

 

what a lovely sentiment.

i whole heartedly disagree

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1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

It's great that they take risks, but when pretty much all big updates in the past year have been worse and worse, one couldn't help but to think that something has gone fundamentally wrong at DE. Something important must have changed for the worse there more than a year ago.

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2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

I'm on the fence with this sentiment. 

Yeah, it's nice they aren't afraid to jump but, they keep choosing the same spot to jump from and everytime it's a borderline disaster for everyone else. 

They aren't showing they're learning from the last jump and at least making different choices. 

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Ya, maybe take risks with smaller content updates? So, y'know, you fix what doesn't work and do more of what does.

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1 hour ago, fx25v said:

It's great that they take risks, but when pretty much all big updates in the past year have been worse and worse, one couldn't help but to think that something has gone fundamentally wrong at DE. Something important must have changed for the worse there more than a year ago.

Worse and worse? I disagree. Rough starts would be more like it. DE has always involved the players as "creative directors" in order to fine tune an update. The Lich system, while rough at the beginning, is fun as heck and provides a nice difficulty lift to regular missions and makes the kill satisfying with great rewards. I run Railjack constantly because I love how my modded ship's speed can chase down ships and destroy everything efficiently. 

What's happening now is the rhetoric from the community has gotten worse as more players join in...just like everything else in today's internet society. 

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I could have sworn I heard Steve mention that they realized that they need more testing before these big updates. I think they got the message and learned. I'm impressed that they got this out the door while working from home. Any other game pushing out major updates like this?

I'm also happy that they are making a commitment to keep us informed via Streams from home. Steve, since that bottle of Scotch is being kept "for a friend" consider me a friend and I give you permission to have some on me.

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The problem is that these last 3 attempts they've basically landed head first.

Like MagPrime said, they haven't learned after 3 attempts why people don't like the severe grinds that they have been putting out.

Liches took months to get the ability to CHECK WHAT WEAPON THEY HAVE BEFORE YOU START THEM and they still haven't implemented the ditch-a-lich system.

DE overshot the buy-in for Empyrean and still hasn't fixed the issue of MK1-2 parts being so costly that it is better just to wait for MK3 ones.

Scarlet Spear's economy was so bad that DE literally had to push out refunds for people who weren't getting credits due to a bug because of how heavily it relied on "bonus" credits.

One time is a mistake, two times is questionable, but three times is just not taking the time to learn from the mistakes of the past. That's not to say that DE isn't TRYING, but there's been so much waiting for fixes that it might be time to look before leaping for once.

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Worse and worse? I disagree. Rough starts would be more like it. DE has always involved the players as "creative directors" in order to fine tune an update. The Lich system, while rough at the beginning, is fun as heck and provides a nice difficulty lift to regular missions and makes the kill satisfying with great rewards.

If believing that helps you sleep at night...

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I think they have identified at least one of their problems. Beta Testing. That will take some time to fix internally.

Warframe is grindy, that's nothing new. They just need to dial it in.

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4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

Nah, they definitely do it on purpose and we just don't know yet, there's no way they commit the S A M E mistakes all over again and that's not on purpose.

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Posted (edited)

i'm not even really sure what leaps we're talking about. other than having Sentients be featured as a main Enemy in some Missions.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

The Lich system, while rough at the beginning, is fun as heck and provides a nice difficulty lift to regular missions and makes the kill satisfying with great rewards.

(not sure where playing the same generic Missions 5-7x as much to get access to a Slot Machine either increases Difficulty, or makes Objectives satisfying. nor gives good Rewards since we have a couple new Weapons and then some Cosmetics, not really much for Rewards)

Edited by taiiat
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Posted (edited)

This topic is a pretty cool sentiment. +1 like to you.

I’m strongly under the impression that they’d love to shut down and fix everything, to address the new player starting experience and do massive balance passes, to listen to our feedback (the constructive stuff) and use it to refine their vision as they see fit.

I do not for one second believe that anyone at DE wants to make something bad, and they’d be over the moon if they were given all the resources they’d need to make everything great. 

They are pretty awesome for being experimental while considering the core game (as with the Revised update). For reasons, I think they can only keep doing it like this at the moment, using our help to make it work when they do their leaps of faith as they try to create a cool, evolving game. I for one am fine with being leveraged as a (very minor) resource to help make something I like better, with DE at the helm. I don’t feel like I get the chance with other games, and I thank them for listening when they do and can, ‘cause it’s a lot easier to post a message about an idea I had than it is to implement, and I’m not even doing the most basic part of the simplest of work to get it into the game when I make my post, no matter how thoughtful it is or how many bullet points I provide (there’s an almost certain chance those bullet points won’t work anyway because of reasons, and they’d be reduced out of necessity to food for thought instead of The Game Changers I might like them to be). I’m just typing words, and any sort of “Hmm, I’ll consider that” is all I can ask for or expect.

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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8 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

So, Scarlet Spear is maybe not going so great, but... I actually really like that DE continues to take risks like this. As nice as it obviously is when things work smoothly, it's also kind of exciting to me that DE is willing to take leaps like this.

There’s some truth to this. What they’ve achieved so far has been from taking big chances, and it’s an interesting question wether a more conservative and risk averse attitude would have gotten DE to where it is today.

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